Lowry talk heating up .. Kings in the mix (ESPN)
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Soft is soft. I'm not going to define something that is both very abstract and at the same thing universally understood.
Eight boards a game in the Euro eh? That's because his one 21 rebounds game skewed the numbers for a relatively small statistical size (10 games or so). In the game preceding his 21 rebounds game, he had four rebounds. And in the two games after his lone outburst he had six and five rebounds respectively. Don't even try to make him out to be some second coming of Thomas Robinson on the boards. Even his scouting reports says that once in a while he burst out of his shell but mostly he is who he is.
Has he gotten better? Sure. Better, stronger, more willing, etc does not equal to "Not soft anymore." He's still skinny, though not as skinny as before. He still needs to get a lot stronger to bang in this league. We Kings fans call Brad Miller and Spencer Hawes soft. Don't even bother with the line that Motiejunas is tougher than those two (I'll accept that they're on the same level of toughness).
Eight boards a game in the Euro eh? That's because his one 21 rebounds game skewed the numbers for a relatively small statistical size (10 games or so). In the game preceding his 21 rebounds game, he had four rebounds. And in the two games after his lone outburst he had six and five rebounds respectively. Don't even try to make him out to be some second coming of Thomas Robinson on the boards. Even his scouting reports says that once in a while he burst out of his shell but mostly he is who he is.
Has he gotten better? Sure. Better, stronger, more willing, etc does not equal to "Not soft anymore." He's still skinny, though not as skinny as before. He still needs to get a lot stronger to bang in this league. We Kings fans call Brad Miller and Spencer Hawes soft. Don't even bother with the line that Motiejunas is tougher than those two (I'll accept that they're on the same level of toughness).
Since when do big rebound games not count? That's idiotic. Lets not count Cousins big rebounding games, because they skew his numbers. I've heard so many people use this argument for a variety of things, and it defies all logic. Cousins had quite a few 3, 4 and 5 rebound games this year. He must be soft.
Nowhere have I made him out to be the second coming of Robinson or any other great rebounder. He'll probably be a solid rebounder, nothing less, nothing more. Here's where I have a problem - you have no idea what level of toughness he is. You're guessing, you haven't watched him, nor do you have any idea if he will be tougher than Hawes or Miller. That comparison is predictable from you, and demonstrates exactly why you think he is soft. You'll accept that they're on the same level of toughness? That's mighty nice of you, I'm sure Motiejunas will make sure not to cross the line incase you're offended.
My point is not that he's a great rebounder, it's that he's not soft, and certainly not even close to what you initially described. I don't value your opinion on him because you clearly haven't watched him play, and for that reason, I have no intention of discussing him further with you. You believe the stereotypes you want to believe, all the while being clueless as to why such stereotypes even exist, as well as the sheer hypocrisy of them.
Nowhere have I made him out to be the second coming of Robinson or any other great rebounder. He'll probably be a solid rebounder, nothing less, nothing more. Here's where I have a problem - you have no idea what level of toughness he is. You're guessing, you haven't watched him, nor do you have any idea if he will be tougher than Hawes or Miller. That comparison is predictable from you, and demonstrates exactly why you think he is soft. You'll accept that they're on the same level of toughness? That's mighty nice of you, I'm sure Motiejunas will make sure not to cross the line incase you're offended.
My point is not that he's a great rebounder, it's that he's not soft, and certainly not even close to what you initially described. I don't value your opinion on him because you clearly haven't watched him play, and for that reason, I have no intention of discussing him further with you. You believe the stereotypes you want to believe, all the while being clueless as to why such stereotypes even exist, as well as the sheer hypocrisy of them.
Tony Delk once scored 50+ points in a game. So what? One game is not a pattern. If Cousins has one 21 rebounds game and then a whole bunch of 5,6, 7 rebounds game; he'd be soft too.
I have seen Motiejunas played several times. In fact, we here on this board had discussed him as early as 2/3 years ago when it looked like he was declaring. It's curious that every single scouts who saw him played questioned his toughness, every single scout. But apparently, they're all wrong.
I have seen Motiejunas played several times. In fact, we here on this board had discussed him as early as 2/3 years ago when it looked like he was declaring. It's curious that every single scouts who saw him played questioned his toughness, every single scout. But apparently, they're all wrong.
I'd wager you haven't seen any games this season if you're being truthful. His toughness was questioned because he was always rail-thin, as many 18 year olds are. However with the added weight and maturity, his rebounding and toughness has improved. He's been much more physical this year and it's crystal clear he has benefited from the improved strength. If you want to act like his past lack of strength hasn't been improved upon, go ahead. He's not a physical specimen, and some of his game takes place away from the basket, but he's not soft. He's much tougher than the likes of Bargnani and Frye.
Your problem is you directly equate rebounding in Europe to the NBA. Doesn't work like that as I've already pointed out. It's much easier to rack up stats in the NBA. Rubio should be evidence enough of this - I insisted that his low assist numbers in Europe were not at all indicative of his future numbers in the NBA and many ignored it. Well, it's the same deal with rebounding. Marc Gasol, in his last three years in Europe, averaged a whopping 5, 6, and 8 rebounds respectively. He seems to be rebounding just fine in the NBA, don't you think?
How about his older brother? Averaged 6 in Europe, comes over and is straight into double figures. Scola's numbers also improved after making the transition. Gortat averaged 5.6 boards a game before coming over (now averaging 10). I could go on and on but there really is no point. You can't look at rebounding numbers in Europe and decide they will do the same in the NBA, it's idiotic. I'm not even saying Motiejunas will be a very good rebounder, I'm not even saying we should trade for him, I'm just sick and tired of the same stuff that's spouted regardless of accuracy.
Your problem is you directly equate rebounding in Europe to the NBA. Doesn't work like that as I've already pointed out. It's much easier to rack up stats in the NBA. Rubio should be evidence enough of this - I insisted that his low assist numbers in Europe were not at all indicative of his future numbers in the NBA and many ignored it. Well, it's the same deal with rebounding. Marc Gasol, in his last three years in Europe, averaged a whopping 5, 6, and 8 rebounds respectively. He seems to be rebounding just fine in the NBA, don't you think?
How about his older brother? Averaged 6 in Europe, comes over and is straight into double figures. Scola's numbers also improved after making the transition. Gortat averaged 5.6 boards a game before coming over (now averaging 10). I could go on and on but there really is no point. You can't look at rebounding numbers in Europe and decide they will do the same in the NBA, it's idiotic. I'm not even saying Motiejunas will be a very good rebounder, I'm not even saying we should trade for him, I'm just sick and tired of the same stuff that's spouted regardless of accuracy.
I'm going to disagree with Bricky. Parsons is a very good defender, which is no surprise coming from Florida, where defense is the mainstay of that school. Players like Horford and Noah came out of that system. I think he's a good basketball player that we could have already had last season but passed on. Not worth giving up Gilchrist for though
I listened to a podcast today with college and highschool scout Dave Telep. When asked who the best one on one player in the entire draft was, he said Dion Waiters with no hesitation. He said the only player in the NBA he can be compared to in style of game and ability is Wade. I admit that I saw Waiters play quite a bit at Syracuse, and while he impressed me at times, he certainly didn't blow my socks off. However, Syracuse is one of those schools that can hide both flaws, and abilities in a player. I have respect for Telep, so I have to consider what he says.
Of course I've seen his games this season! I don't just talk out of my rear end like some people. I'm beginning to wonder if you've watched any of his games.
You (or anyone else) can catch his league final game here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1ZZp61e06s
People who're seeing Montiejunas (wearing yellow jersey #11) for the first time will notice that:
1. He spends a lot of time camping outside the 3-pt line
2. He's very skinny (despite claims of significantly bulking up)
3. He gets pushed around often
4. He does try to play defense (key word: try)
5. His one vs one post defense is not pretty
6. He has a good jump shot, good handle and good IQ
Now, this is a draft where Perry Jones and Andre Drummond did much more than Montiejunas on defense and called soft/low motor respectively. Watch how the big guy struggled to cope with people being physical with him and tell me that he isn't soft.
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It's all posturing. The Kings were interested in Drummond when teams wanted Drummond, Lillard when teams wanted Lillard, and now Waiters when teams are falling in love with him. I think it's all posturing in order to make a deal for a veteran. Anyway, that's my speculation. After the draft tomorrow we're all going to be able to assess what was smoke and what wasn't.
Houston spewing assets all over the league for marignal gains in draft position. #14, #16 Budinger and Daly --> #12, #16, #18. Not exactly Howard worthy yet. If they want that #5 it had better include Lowry and two of those picks (although Lowry and #12 could almost do it depending on who slips to #12), and that would still leave them shy of a Howard package.
