It's early, but anybody have a draft wish list yet?
- Thread starter bluntsnbball
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You know Gilles, sometimes you throw things out there that just aren't true. Ezeli is not constantly injured. To the best of my knowledge he's had one semi-serious injury in his four year college career. He was redshirted one year, and his first year of elligibility, he played in 29 games our of 34, and didn't miss any due to injury. His next season he played in 32 games out of 34 and once again didn't miss any due to injury. In his third year, he played in ans started all 34 games. Again no injuries of note.
This last season he was suspended for 6 games due to stupidly accepting a meal from an alumnus. He also suffered a sprained acl and mcl to his right knee in practice. He missed 10 games due to the injury, and fortunately, the injury games overlapped the suspended games he would have missed anyway. He came back from the injury sooner than expected, and there was no doubt that the injury affected him for a while after returning. If you don't like the player, great, don't like him. But don't just throw things out there that make people think he's the next coming of Greg Oden injury wise.
This last season he was suspended for 6 games due to stupidly accepting a meal from an alumnus. He also suffered a sprained acl and mcl to his right knee in practice. He missed 10 games due to the injury, and fortunately, the injury games overlapped the suspended games he would have missed anyway. He came back from the injury sooner than expected, and there was no doubt that the injury affected him for a while after returning. If you don't like the player, great, don't like him. But don't just throw things out there that make people think he's the next coming of Greg Oden injury wise.
Hey, I'm a BPA guy too. But you'd have to go a long way to convince me that Barton is a better player than Ezeli when you compare the potential of the two. There is going to be a lot of good players of almost equal value in the second round. And if I have to choose between a SG and a PF and they have equal value in my mind, I'm taking the Pf.
If this is what it comes down to, Ross or Barnes, then I'm taking Taylor! He's a better outside shooter than either of them, he's a better athlete than either of them. He's more ready to step in and play than either of them, and he's more ready to play the SF position than Ross is due to his strength.
Well, hard to argue with someone's opinion on RealGM. Look, I'm not saying he couldn't be injury prone in the future. I don't know. All I know is that other than this past season, he hasn't missed games because of injuries. He's definitely rough around the edges on offense. But he has the potential to be similar player as Ibaka. Not saying he'll be that good. Who the hell knows. But he's tall and long, and has an NBA body along with being a very good athlete. He and Moultrie are both guys that could be much better a couple of years from now than half the guys picked in front of them.
I like Ezeli and would be perfectly comfortable picking him up in the 2nd round, though I would be surprised if he ends up lasting till the 35th pick.
I do want to mention that though he came to basketball late, after his 3rd season he was considered the most improved player in the conference. That's the type of player you want, if they haven't played all their lives. He's good good size and athleticism and is a quick learner.
I don't see him lasting till the 35th pick, but if he's on he board he would be one of my top picks.
I do want to mention that though he came to basketball late, after his 3rd season he was considered the most improved player in the conference. That's the type of player you want, if they haven't played all their lives. He's good good size and athleticism and is a quick learner.
I don't see him lasting till the 35th pick, but if he's on he board he would be one of my top picks.
I agree that he'll probably be gone at the bottom of the first round. He never touched a basketball in his life until his junior year of highschool, and that was at the local YMCA or whatever they call it. His first orginized basketball experience was in his senior year of highschool. So when you look when and where he started, his progress is amazing. He has as big an upside as anyone in this draft. But there's no denying that at present he's behind the curve. Plus, I believe he'll be graduating with a degree as a physcist. So the kid isn't stupid.
So this season was his 6th as a basketball player. Don't see anything special in that. Ekpe Udoh had similar career path. Ezeli is bigger and more physical so he's likely gonna stick at least as a 4th big. It will be pretty important just how long he is since it will define his future effectiveness.
Well, to say it was his sixth season of organized basketball is somewhat of a stretch. He didn't come to the united states until 2004. He was born in Nigeria, and the only sport he played as a kid was soccer. His father is a doctor, and he wanted him to have a good education, so he sent him to live with his uncle, who was also a doctor, in, of all places. Yuba City calif. In what would have been his junior year of highschool his father enrolled him in Yuba city community college, and got him on a low level AAU team. He was 6'8" at the time. He was so confused about basketball, that the first points he scored were in his own basket by mistake. He said he had no clue what he was susposed to do, so he just followed everyone else up and down the court.
The next year he got on another, higher level AAU team, and he was now 6'11". He caught the eye of a few scouts that were interested, because of his size. So he got invited to participate in the Nike Summit games. Vanderbilt saw him there, and recruited him. They redshirted him because they knew he was far from ready to actually play in a real game. Although he couldn't play, he could practice with the team, and toward the end of his redshirt season, he was making life miserable for Olgivy in practice.
Udoh has a similar story, and so does Thabeet and Jason Hill. When you consider most college players play the game from the time they're little kids, I think his transformation is remarkable. Why you want to just discard as if its meaningless is beyond me. I have no dog in this hunt. I just give credit where credit is due. If Drummond had played well, I'd be giving him credit. One of the things that stands out with Ezeli is his size. He's just physically bigger than both Udoh and Hill, and he's more athletic than Thabeet. If you look at Thabeet's career in college, he made little progress from his first to his last. Whereas, Ezeli got better every single year. I'm not saying he's the next Akeem, but for a low first or high second round pick, he has good value.
The next year he got on another, higher level AAU team, and he was now 6'11". He caught the eye of a few scouts that were interested, because of his size. So he got invited to participate in the Nike Summit games. Vanderbilt saw him there, and recruited him. They redshirted him because they knew he was far from ready to actually play in a real game. Although he couldn't play, he could practice with the team, and toward the end of his redshirt season, he was making life miserable for Olgivy in practice.
Udoh has a similar story, and so does Thabeet and Jason Hill. When you consider most college players play the game from the time they're little kids, I think his transformation is remarkable. Why you want to just discard as if its meaningless is beyond me. I have no dog in this hunt. I just give credit where credit is due. If Drummond had played well, I'd be giving him credit. One of the things that stands out with Ezeli is his size. He's just physically bigger than both Udoh and Hill, and he's more athletic than Thabeet. If you look at Thabeet's career in college, he made little progress from his first to his last. Whereas, Ezeli got better every single year. I'm not saying he's the next Akeem, but for a low first or high second round pick, he has good value.
Let's slow down here a bit. Jimmer has ways he needs to grow, but he certainly had a better rookie year than Douby. Getting past the raw numbers:
Douby:
PER: 9.0
TS%: 44.9%
Assist%: 6.9%
A/T Rate: 1.0
Rebound Rate: 6%
Win Score: 0.0
Jimmer:
PER: 10.8
TS%: 49.5%
Assist%: 15.1%
A/T Rate: 1.6
Rebound Rate: 3.5%
Win Score: 0.3
The only area that Douby was really better than Jimmer was in rebounding. But Jimmer shot over 4.5% better in TS%, notched assists at more than double the rate Douby did, and had a much better A/T rate. Hence his PER was nearly 2 points higher and his win score was higher as well. And unlike Douby, Jimmer did it in a season with almost no training camp, very few practices, in a truncated season with two different coaches.
Having watched both of them play, I can also say that I saw Jimmer progress and get much better and more comfortable as the season went on. Douby on the other hand never really looked comfortable as a NBA player. Other than a couple of good summer leagues, Douby was just a dud. Maybe Jimmer will never improve, we can't say at this point. But regardless of how good Jimmer becomes, he is already a better NBA player than Douby was and should remain so.
Douby:
PER: 9.0
TS%: 44.9%
Assist%: 6.9%
A/T Rate: 1.0
Rebound Rate: 6%
Win Score: 0.0
Jimmer:
PER: 10.8
TS%: 49.5%
Assist%: 15.1%
A/T Rate: 1.6
Rebound Rate: 3.5%
Win Score: 0.3
The only area that Douby was really better than Jimmer was in rebounding. But Jimmer shot over 4.5% better in TS%, notched assists at more than double the rate Douby did, and had a much better A/T rate. Hence his PER was nearly 2 points higher and his win score was higher as well. And unlike Douby, Jimmer did it in a season with almost no training camp, very few practices, in a truncated season with two different coaches.
Having watched both of them play, I can also say that I saw Jimmer progress and get much better and more comfortable as the season went on. Douby on the other hand never really looked comfortable as a NBA player. Other than a couple of good summer leagues, Douby was just a dud. Maybe Jimmer will never improve, we can't say at this point. But regardless of how good Jimmer becomes, he is already a better NBA player than Douby was and should remain so.
The more I watch Bradley Beal, the more I'm thinking that we should go against conventional wisdom and take the young man. Sure, we have a logjam at SG already. We have MT and Jimmer, and we also have Reke, who isn't really a SG, but we might have to use him at that spot.
Of course, all of this is assuming that we end up either at the 4 spot or later, and Davis, MKG and Robinson are all off the board. I'd hate to be the guy that passes on the next Dwayne Wade, just because we already have a few SG's on our team.
Of course, all of this is assuming that we end up either at the 4 spot or later, and Davis, MKG and Robinson are all off the board. I'd hate to be the guy that passes on the next Dwayne Wade, just because we already have a few SG's on our team.
1. It's a great story. Why "to say it was his sixth season of organized basketball is somewhat of a stretch"?
2. Ezeli didn't get beter every year. He had major jump from sophomore to junior when Ogilvy left but freshman and sophomore years are identical and senior was actually worse than junior because he fought through injuries.
3. Thabeet IS athletic. He's just not as physical, not very coordinated and can't think as fast as the game unfolds. Going from 6.2(.554FG%+.513FT%)+6.4 in 25 mpg to 13.6(.640FG%+.627FT%)+10.8 in 32 mpg in two year is just as impressive as progression Ezeli showed.
4. He has decent value around #30. But not to the extent of "He has as big an upside as anyone in this draft." Again, he plays physical game and that alone assures he has place in the League at least as fringe big.
2. Ezeli didn't get beter every year. He had major jump from sophomore to junior when Ogilvy left but freshman and sophomore years are identical and senior was actually worse than junior because he fought through injuries.
3. Thabeet IS athletic. He's just not as physical, not very coordinated and can't think as fast as the game unfolds. Going from 6.2(.554FG%+.513FT%)+6.4 in 25 mpg to 13.6(.640FG%+.627FT%)+10.8 in 32 mpg in two year is just as impressive as progression Ezeli showed.
4. He has decent value around #30. But not to the extent of "He has as big an upside as anyone in this draft." Again, he plays physical game and that alone assures he has place in the League at least as fringe big.
Strong, explosive guys, who can shoot have good track record. But in terms of explosiveness Beal is much closer to Harden than Wade or Eric Gordon and Harden is very crafty and smart player. Beal simply didn't have the opportunity to show what he can do with the ball in his hand. He also not as quick laterally as Wade or Gordon and again more in line with Harden. He will be a decent pick but I don't think he's clear BPA at #5.
I didn't say that Thabeet wasn't athletic, I said that Ezeli was more athletic than Thabeet. I've watched Ezeli play in more than 40 games the last two years, and I know what my eye's tell me, and not what some stats you read off of a website tell me. If you want to go simply on stats, then no NBA team would need scouts. And I stand by my statement that he has as much upside as anyone in this draft. But I'm talking about from where he is, to where he could be as a ceiling. Where you misunderstand me, is that his ceiling may not be as high as someone's else's. In otherwords, he's starting from a lower floor because of his background.
Now if you want to call his first year in basketball at a low AAU level, when he had no idea what a basketball was, one year of orgianized basketball, then have at it. And yes, this last season, he fought through an injury for a while which affected his overall stats, but if you saw him play the last 10 to 15 games, with the emphasis on seeing him play, instead of just looking up his stats, you would have seen a very good player on the defensive side of the ball that was getting better game by game. He may never be a good offensive player, but I have no doubt that he can have an impact at some point on the defensive side of the ball. His BBIQ is behind the curve because of his late start, but he's a very smart guy, and a hard worker.
Let me say this about the difference between Thabeet, who,I said would be a bust by the way,when many on this fourm wanted us to draft him, and Ezeli. Thabeet did nothing but stand under the basket and block shots. On offense he figured out how to roll to the basket on pick and rolls, and thats about it, along with offensive putbacks. Ezeli had far more responsibility on both ends of the court. He knew how to push on defending the pick and roll. He made defensive switches in the rotations. He set picks. Thabeet did none of these things. He basicly stood under the basket and dared anyone to enter his zone. I said at the time, that you can't get away with that in the NBA. By the way, part of being athletic is being coordinated.
Ezeli biggest weakness is his rebounding. He put up decent numbers, but for a guy his size, and with his athletic ability, he should be putting up better numbers. A large part of this is his lack of technique. Something that should be correctable.
Now if you want to call his first year in basketball at a low AAU level, when he had no idea what a basketball was, one year of orgianized basketball, then have at it. And yes, this last season, he fought through an injury for a while which affected his overall stats, but if you saw him play the last 10 to 15 games, with the emphasis on seeing him play, instead of just looking up his stats, you would have seen a very good player on the defensive side of the ball that was getting better game by game. He may never be a good offensive player, but I have no doubt that he can have an impact at some point on the defensive side of the ball. His BBIQ is behind the curve because of his late start, but he's a very smart guy, and a hard worker.
Let me say this about the difference between Thabeet, who,I said would be a bust by the way,when many on this fourm wanted us to draft him, and Ezeli. Thabeet did nothing but stand under the basket and block shots. On offense he figured out how to roll to the basket on pick and rolls, and thats about it, along with offensive putbacks. Ezeli had far more responsibility on both ends of the court. He knew how to push on defending the pick and roll. He made defensive switches in the rotations. He set picks. Thabeet did none of these things. He basicly stood under the basket and dared anyone to enter his zone. I said at the time, that you can't get away with that in the NBA. By the way, part of being athletic is being coordinated.
Ezeli biggest weakness is his rebounding. He put up decent numbers, but for a guy his size, and with his athletic ability, he should be putting up better numbers. A large part of this is his lack of technique. Something that should be correctable.
First, lets talk about Harden. I really liked Harden coming out of college. I had people tell me that he wasn't a good athlete. That he wasn't as tall as advertized. I said he was a terrific athlete and he ended up being as tall as advertized. Harden ended up demonstrating a 40 inch vertical at the combine. Whether he's as quick as Wade or Gordon, is subjective. But Harden is a very good defender.
Beal is an explosive athlete, whose overall play on the court was better than his stats showed. He only shot around 33% from the three, but you could tell from watching him play that he's a better shooter than that. If he has a visible weakness, its his height, which is listed at 6'3.5". We'll see at the combine. He's also listed as having a 6'6" wingspan, which would help make up for his lack of height. His comparisons to Wade, E. Gordon, and R. Allen, aren't mine, but the opinions of NBA scouts. Personally, I'm not a fan of comparing one player to another.
I'm not going to say that Beal is a can't miss guy, but he's very close. His floor is higher than most, and his ceiling is very high. So at worse, you might end up with a Thornton type player, or at best, you might end up with an all star. If we didn't already have Thornton, I wouldn't hesitate to grab him.
Beal is an explosive athlete, whose overall play on the court was better than his stats showed. He only shot around 33% from the three, but you could tell from watching him play that he's a better shooter than that. If he has a visible weakness, its his height, which is listed at 6'3.5". We'll see at the combine. He's also listed as having a 6'6" wingspan, which would help make up for his lack of height. His comparisons to Wade, E. Gordon, and R. Allen, aren't mine, but the opinions of NBA scouts. Personally, I'm not a fan of comparing one player to another.
I'm not going to say that Beal is a can't miss guy, but he's very close. His floor is higher than most, and his ceiling is very high. So at worse, you might end up with a Thornton type player, or at best, you might end up with an all star. If we didn't already have Thornton, I wouldn't hesitate to grab him.
Forgive me if this has already been discussed, as I have yet to finish reading all the posts in this thread yet... but do you all see the Kings going after a certain position in this draft or the best player available? From what I have read the skill level at each position in our draft range seems to have pretty clear rankings which I think would make picking easier.