It's early, but anybody have a draft wish list yet?
- Thread starter bluntsnbball
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I believe they were looking at Jimmer as a PG, and not as a SG. I know I was. His only drawback right now, are his left hand, and his defense. I don't think anyone has seen the real Jimmer this year, and thats alright. Jimmer came in with all the pressure on him and IT came with no pressure. Everytime IT misses a shot, everyone just goes Ohhh, too bad. Everytime Jimmer misses a shot, everyone wonders why we wasted a pick on him. Now thats not fair, but thats the reality of it.
He's a very talented player with some flaws. All those flaws are correctable to some extent. Naturally, a players defense is somewhat limited by his athletic ability. But learning how to play team defense, and studying film, can go a long way in compensating for lack of lateral quickness etc. Actually Jimmer has decent lateral quickness. Once he learns how go get around screens quicker, and knows the opposition better, I think his defense will improve. In short, the jury is still out. Check back in a couple of years. And if you don't have the patience for that, its not Jimmers fault.
He's a very talented player with some flaws. All those flaws are correctable to some extent. Naturally, a players defense is somewhat limited by his athletic ability. But learning how to play team defense, and studying film, can go a long way in compensating for lack of lateral quickness etc. Actually Jimmer has decent lateral quickness. Once he learns how go get around screens quicker, and knows the opposition better, I think his defense will improve. In short, the jury is still out. Check back in a couple of years. And if you don't have the patience for that, its not Jimmers fault.
This is my thought and reasoning (you can't teach height) and believe me, I have a lot of concerns about Drummond and his desire. On the other hand, We may need a SF but does he have to be a shooting SF? There is a part of me that sees that as a negative but then I don't know how good Barnes is on defense. It's an interesting situation and I am sure the FO has this one answered prior to going into the draft.
Now if it was MKG or Robinson and Drummond, I'd have no problem picking MKG or Robinson. We need guys with high energy motors who aren't concerned with how many points they can score. Can we have both?
Now if it was MKG or Robinson and Drummond, I'd have no problem picking MKG or Robinson. We need guys with high energy motors who aren't concerned with how many points they can score. Can we have both?
Barnes is actually quite good as a defender and I don't think MKG is a better one right now. Also I'm starting to think that MKG is getting overated. His main values are his work ethic and leadership skills. People make him out to be some very skilled, very athletic guaranteed future superstar. He's not. Whatever his ceiling is there seems to be like 99% chance that he reaches it but you do not build around him. I would say he can be your new Vlade, not Webber.
Barnes is quite good as a defender, but MKG is in a whole other league. He's one of the best defensive wing players to enter the draft in years. Since Westbrook I'd say if you consider him a wing and not a PG, or before that I'd go back to Igoudala in 2004.
I've said this before, but the more I think about it I get even more excited about how unique this draft is. There are 7 guys that I would love for us to have ended up with in any year and we're closing in on a lottery position which might guarantee us a pick in the top 7. You've got two guys in Davis and MKG who figure to make multiple All-Defense teams in their career. You've also got two guys in Barnes and Drummond who were projected as first overall picks coming out of high school. Pair them with an All-NBA coach like Sloan or McMillan and they could be scary good in 4-5 years. Then you've got Robinson and Beal who would rank up there in the top tier of prospects at their position in any draft, and lastly Perry Jones who never got on track in two years at Baylor but there's not a lot he can't do on a basketball court. More than anything he needs some direction on how to fit his incredible individual talent into the team game.
Some of those guys are riskier than others, but all of them are in the top 1% of basketball prospects. All of them have All-Star potential. If we close out the year with the fourth worst record, I'm not even going to hold my breath for the draft lottery because I'll be satisfied with picking anywhere from 1 to 7. Even in the 8-10 range, one of the guys I really like could easily slip a couple spots.
I've said this before, but the more I think about it I get even more excited about how unique this draft is. There are 7 guys that I would love for us to have ended up with in any year and we're closing in on a lottery position which might guarantee us a pick in the top 7. You've got two guys in Davis and MKG who figure to make multiple All-Defense teams in their career. You've also got two guys in Barnes and Drummond who were projected as first overall picks coming out of high school. Pair them with an All-NBA coach like Sloan or McMillan and they could be scary good in 4-5 years. Then you've got Robinson and Beal who would rank up there in the top tier of prospects at their position in any draft, and lastly Perry Jones who never got on track in two years at Baylor but there's not a lot he can't do on a basketball court. More than anything he needs some direction on how to fit his incredible individual talent into the team game.
Some of those guys are riskier than others, but all of them are in the top 1% of basketball prospects. All of them have All-Star potential. If we close out the year with the fourth worst record, I'm not even going to hold my breath for the draft lottery because I'll be satisfied with picking anywhere from 1 to 7. Even in the 8-10 range, one of the guys I really like could easily slip a couple spots.
You guys are overrating Barnes defense imo.
He took a big step backwards this year from last year, and more then anything doesn't seem to take pride in playing defense and show any real motor on that side of the floor - which is what makes MKG (along with his superior lateral movement/explosiveness) be another level of defense from him.
In general Barnes is enjoying the final moments of his immense highschool hype machine.
He has done practically nothing to support or justify it, and proven to be a pretty limited player. Still got a future in the league, but not at all a star.
He took a big step backwards this year from last year, and more then anything doesn't seem to take pride in playing defense and show any real motor on that side of the floor - which is what makes MKG (along with his superior lateral movement/explosiveness) be another level of defense from him.
In general Barnes is enjoying the final moments of his immense highschool hype machine.
He has done practically nothing to support or justify it, and proven to be a pretty limited player. Still got a future in the league, but not at all a star.
I agree wholeheartedly. And if I might add, Gilchrist often defended the other teams PG when Teague was off the floor. He defended four positions from PG to PG. Now I don't expect him to defend PG's in the NBA. But it shows his versitality. His lateral quickness is off the charts. He is twice the ballhandler that Barnes is, and is a great finisher at the basket, something Barnes has yet to improve on.
If, and its always a big if, MKG can develop a decent to good 3pt shot, he has the ability to be a superstar in the league. Thats not a prediction, just an observation.
If, and its always a big if, MKG can develop a decent to good 3pt shot, he has the ability to be a superstar in the league. Thats not a prediction, just an observation.
How about a Coach like Smart? Or whatever turd the Maloofs hire in a year after Smart gets fired?
The Kings...Where potential goes to die.
The Kings...Where potential goes to die.
Let me also say, Baylor isn't know as a great school for developing players among'st the scouts. I don't think it helped Jones to play him at the PF position, because it took away some of his strengths. Which are great ballhandliing for a 6'11" player, and very good outside shooting. So if you put him at the SF postion and farther away from the basket, he becomes a more efficient player in my judgement. He's also a very good passer and he runs the floor like a deer. So a part of me has to wonder how he would have fared at Kentucky instead of Baylor. These things do matter folks! Just ask Derrick Favors. If your a post player, you don't want to play on a college team that doesn't have players who can feed the post. Or in some cases, have no inclination to try.
I have similar questions about Drummond at UCONN. Anyone remember another player from UCONN name Thabeet? How well did he develop there? Not saying its a coaching problem, but UCONN doesn't seem to do well with bigs that have low BBIQ. It also didn't help that UCONN had two players in Napier and Lamb, that had a shoot first mentality. Especially Napier, who thought he was the second coming of Kemba somebody. So I blame Napier more than Lamb. Napier was the lead guard.
I'm not trying to make excuses for either players poor performances. I'm just saying that there are other circumstances that you have to take into consideration when passing judgement.
Oh I'm sure we'll give him a look see. And despite how I might feel about him, it wouldn't shock me to see him be the second selection in the draft. At the same time, it wouldn't shock me to see him slide down to the 6th, 7th or 8th spot in the draft. His workouts will have a lot to do with where he's selected. If some GM's think his BBIQ is fine, and that he just wasn't used properly at UCONN, I expect one of them will take a flyer on him. There were just as many red flags with Thabeet, and he ended up being the 2nd pick in the draft. And, Drummond's skill level is much higher than Thabeets. Plus, he's only had one year of college compared to Thabeets three years.
Also, remember that Drummond has been playing basketball his whole life, and Thabeet never touched a basketball until he was 15 years old. One major difference, is that this draft is deeper with more overall talent at the top than the year Thabeet was chosen. It should be interesting to see how it all plays out. We luck out and get the first pick, and none of it matters.
Also, remember that Drummond has been playing basketball his whole life, and Thabeet never touched a basketball until he was 15 years old. One major difference, is that this draft is deeper with more overall talent at the top than the year Thabeet was chosen. It should be interesting to see how it all plays out. We luck out and get the first pick, and none of it matters.
His work ethic has always been a question. Whether he hits 50% of his free throws at a work out might even be within statistical possiblity and mean very little. He has notably been shy to post up, hence the statements that he disappears in games. Heck, he DOES disappear on offense as difficult as that might seem for a guy his size. The question that rattles around in my mind is if an unmotivated, poor free throw shooting uber athlete is still worth it. I don't think he is a Thabeet. I think he is better than that. And he has defensive skills unless I am wrong. This might be "good enough" for the Kings although even at that this guy could easily be a waste of a draft pick. I hope we don't have to make the decision and so far, because of our wretched record during this easy part of our season, we may not have to make the decision.
This is yet another player who needs someone to sit down with him and find out what's wrong because something is wrong. If it is a matter of motivation, I would be very worried as it is difficult to instill motivation into a player. Perhaps Cousins would scare the daylights out of him. Drummond might find some motivation leaking by osmosis from Cousins. Tell ya what, as part of the evaluation, I might have him sit down and chat with Cousins. At this point I think Cousins' input would be valuable.
Drummond is a tough one.
This is yet another player who needs someone to sit down with him and find out what's wrong because something is wrong. If it is a matter of motivation, I would be very worried as it is difficult to instill motivation into a player. Perhaps Cousins would scare the daylights out of him.
Drummond might find some motivation leaking by osmosis from Cousins. Tell ya what, as part of the evaluation, I might have him sit down and chat with Cousins. At this point I think Cousins' input would be valuable.Drummond is a tough one.
In two UConn games I saw most recently he successfully posted up and held good position for 3-4 seconds but Napier and Boatright stare at him for a second and then turn away or don't look at him at all. He often went for some quick shots to avoid being fouled which make for some ugly finishes but setting up position wasn't his problem.
I saw Drummond play close to 20 times this past season. In the majority of those games, he seldom fought for position in the post. I mean fight! I seldom saw him waving for the ball. This is a double edged sword. It reaches a point where your teammates don't trust you enough to throw you the ball when you finally do post up. I'm not going to sugar coat this guy. There were games where he flat out stunk. Yes, he did improve somewhat as the year progressed, but that hardly made me stand up and take notice.
I had a measuring stick. And it was named Anthony Davis. Drummond came in with as much, if not more fanfare as Davis. And it was a no contest. If Davis is number one, then putting Drummond at number two is an insult to the rest of the draft. You would be rewarding this guy for accomplishing nothing. However, it won't shock me if someone picks him with the second pick in the draft. I actually feel sorry for Drummond. Especially if he gets picked in the top three. The pressure on him will be terrific, and he doesn't need it. What he needs is another year of college.
I had a measuring stick. And it was named Anthony Davis. Drummond came in with as much, if not more fanfare as Davis. And it was a no contest. If Davis is number one, then putting Drummond at number two is an insult to the rest of the draft. You would be rewarding this guy for accomplishing nothing. However, it won't shock me if someone picks him with the second pick in the draft. I actually feel sorry for Drummond. Especially if he gets picked in the top three. The pressure on him will be terrific, and he doesn't need it. What he needs is another year of college.
It is double-edged sword - NBA is completely different animal than college. Not only in skill-level or physicality but in style as well. Ezeli and Zeller showed that A.Davis will be pushed around come November, for example . College is a good measuring stick but it's not absolute. Especially when we talk about freshman bigs in need of team play and coaching (Calhoun was not there for most of the season)
The most annoying thing for me about that kid is his horrible effort into getting rebounds.
I mean the way I look at it - OK, maybe you don't quite grasp the game yet, maybe you don't really have an offense you can count on, maybe your teammates and point guards really are selfish as hell.
But for the love of god - HOW IN THE WORLD can this kid not ATLEAST dominate the rebounding department?
If you saw him play alot of games you'd know that he just DOESN'T fight for ANY rebound - especially on the defensive glass. If it doesn't fall to his hands or he can't jump straight high enough to get it, and actually needs to show some motor and emotion and fight it out of someone else's hands - he will flat out quit on the play and allow some weak skinny 6'8-6'9 forward to just rip it out of his hands like he's the world most powerful man.
That right there to me, is just unacceptable. This kid is built like a tank, he's powerful, he's SUPER athletic(again, 41 inch vert for a 6'11 man - that's more then Dwight Howard) - and you're an average rebounder at the COLLAGE LEVEL.
It's stuff like these that can scare the living crap out of you watching this kid.
I mean the way I look at it - OK, maybe you don't quite grasp the game yet, maybe you don't really have an offense you can count on, maybe your teammates and point guards really are selfish as hell.
But for the love of god - HOW IN THE WORLD can this kid not ATLEAST dominate the rebounding department?
If you saw him play alot of games you'd know that he just DOESN'T fight for ANY rebound - especially on the defensive glass. If it doesn't fall to his hands or he can't jump straight high enough to get it, and actually needs to show some motor and emotion and fight it out of someone else's hands - he will flat out quit on the play and allow some weak skinny 6'8-6'9 forward to just rip it out of his hands like he's the world most powerful man.
That right there to me, is just unacceptable. This kid is built like a tank, he's powerful, he's SUPER athletic(again, 41 inch vert for a 6'11 man - that's more then Dwight Howard) - and you're an average rebounder at the COLLAGE LEVEL.
It's stuff like these that can scare the living crap out of you watching this kid.
I give you Calhoun not being there for a lot of the season. And I pointed out earilier that who you play with, and the system you play in, matters. But I'm not going to throw away the results from this last season as though they don't matter. And stats aside, whats more important to me, is what I saw with my own eyes. Even in some of Drummonds good games, there were times when he seemed to float. UCONN plays one of the weaker schedules to start off the season. They play such great basketball powerhouses like, Columbia, Wagner, Maine, Coppin St., N.C.-Ashville, UCF, Fairfield, Holy Cross, Harvard, South Florida, Arkansas, etc.
This should have been fertile ground for Drummond to make his mark. Quite the opposite happened. Against Arkansas he had 1 pt, 1 rebound, and 4 blocked shots. Against South Florida he had 4 pts, 7 rebounds, and 1 blocked shot. I won't bore you with the rest, but I'll end up with the single most important game UCONN played last season. The first round game of the tounament against Iowa St. He rose to the occasion with 2 pts, 3 rebounds, and 4 blocked shots. Most scouts left shaking thier heads. They, like me, were confused how a guy that talented could do so little in the biggest game of his career up to that point.
But lets look at what Davis did in the games he was pushed around in. First game against Vandy and Ezeli on 12/03/2012, 15 pts, 8 rebounds, and 7 blocked shots. Second game against Vandy and Ezeli on 2/25/2012, 28 pts, 11 rebounds, and 5 blocked shots. Third game agains Vandy and Ezeli on 3/11/2012, 12 pts, 10 rebounds, and 3 blocked shots. This third game was Ezeli's best against Davis, and I personally think that Ezeli is the best athletic defender that Davis faced all year.
Kentucky only played North Carolina once all season, and it was early in the season, around Kentucky's 6th or 7th game. In that game Davis was going up against two bigs in the post in Zeller and Henson. He only scored 7 pts with 9 rebounds, 2 blocked shots, and 2 steal. Not his greatest game, but he topped it off by blocking Hensons jumpshot in the final seconds of the game to insure a Kentucky win. Which brings me to my main point about the difference between Drummond and Davis. Davis always impacts the game in some way. He always makes a difference, and he never, never, never disappears during a game. And Drummond does! And thats my problem with him.
Drummond may well turnout to be the best player in the NBA. I certainly hope for his sake, he finds his mojo. It would be a huge waste of talent if he doesn't. If the Kings decide to take a gamble on him, I sure hope they do their homework, because he scares me to death. He scares me that we'll pass on him and he becomes an all star, and he scares me that we'll choose him, and he's Thabeet II.
This should have been fertile ground for Drummond to make his mark. Quite the opposite happened. Against Arkansas he had 1 pt, 1 rebound, and 4 blocked shots. Against South Florida he had 4 pts, 7 rebounds, and 1 blocked shot. I won't bore you with the rest, but I'll end up with the single most important game UCONN played last season. The first round game of the tounament against Iowa St. He rose to the occasion with 2 pts, 3 rebounds, and 4 blocked shots. Most scouts left shaking thier heads. They, like me, were confused how a guy that talented could do so little in the biggest game of his career up to that point.
But lets look at what Davis did in the games he was pushed around in. First game against Vandy and Ezeli on 12/03/2012, 15 pts, 8 rebounds, and 7 blocked shots. Second game against Vandy and Ezeli on 2/25/2012, 28 pts, 11 rebounds, and 5 blocked shots. Third game agains Vandy and Ezeli on 3/11/2012, 12 pts, 10 rebounds, and 3 blocked shots. This third game was Ezeli's best against Davis, and I personally think that Ezeli is the best athletic defender that Davis faced all year.
Kentucky only played North Carolina once all season, and it was early in the season, around Kentucky's 6th or 7th game. In that game Davis was going up against two bigs in the post in Zeller and Henson. He only scored 7 pts with 9 rebounds, 2 blocked shots, and 2 steal. Not his greatest game, but he topped it off by blocking Hensons jumpshot in the final seconds of the game to insure a Kentucky win. Which brings me to my main point about the difference between Drummond and Davis. Davis always impacts the game in some way. He always makes a difference, and he never, never, never disappears during a game. And Drummond does! And thats my problem with him.
Drummond may well turnout to be the best player in the NBA. I certainly hope for his sake, he finds his mojo. It would be a huge waste of talent if he doesn't. If the Kings decide to take a gamble on him, I sure hope they do their homework, because he scares me to death. He scares me that we'll pass on him and he becomes an all star, and he scares me that we'll choose him, and he's Thabeet II.
That may true, but whats the old saying? You can treat the symptom, or you can treat the problem. You don't cut of your nose despite your face. If the problem is lack of proper instruction, then fix the problem, but don't pass on a possible future all star because of that problem. Don't get me wrong, I understand your point. But I think you have to have seperate approaches to the problems, and not intermix them. If you do, then your judgement gets clouded by things that have nothing to do with picking good talent.
One of the main problems is Leadership. And leadership starts at the top. Our problem is, we don't know where the top is. We don't know whose running the show and making the final decisions. We can guess, accompanied by our personal prejudices, but in the end, we don't know where to point our finger. All we know, is that a lot of the decisions don't make a lot of sense. It appears as though the tail is wagging the dog. Instead of being proactive, they appear to be reactive. The next decision is usually a result of the last bad one. Which shows a lack of a plan.
Right now the Kings orginization is like a bad mechanic that just starts changing parts until the car runs again. You might end up with a fixed and running car, but it ends up being a very expensive process.
One of the main problems is Leadership. And leadership starts at the top. Our problem is, we don't know where the top is. We don't know whose running the show and making the final decisions. We can guess, accompanied by our personal prejudices, but in the end, we don't know where to point our finger. All we know, is that a lot of the decisions don't make a lot of sense. It appears as though the tail is wagging the dog. Instead of being proactive, they appear to be reactive. The next decision is usually a result of the last bad one. Which shows a lack of a plan.
Right now the Kings orginization is like a bad mechanic that just starts changing parts until the car runs again. You might end up with a fixed and running car, but it ends up being a very expensive process.
One thing I will say for Drummond, is that he didn't have a capable PG on the team. Napier is one of the most frustrating players I've seen play. Thinks he is much better than he is, takes silly shots, doesn't make the right pass. Having said that, I'm not sure exactly how much this affected Drummond, but it certainly didn't help him.
This is about the 3rd of 4th time this question has been asked, and I don't think anyone has a real answer. I guess the best I can do is say it depends on exactly where were picking, and who is left to choose from. What I wonder is, what if Ezeli, who never touched a basketball in his life until his junior year of highschool in canada, had the same upbringing that Drummond had. Would he still be considered a second round pick? Because to be honest, he had a better year than Drummond did, and he's the same height, similar weight, and almost as athletic as Drummond. Of course he's a senior, and Drummond is a freshman. Just wondering...