[Grades] Grades v. Nuggets 3/30/11

Who's game were you most disappointed with tonight?

  • Cisco

    Votes: 6 30.0%
  • Cousins

    Votes: 5 25.0%
  • Dalembert

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • Thompson

    Votes: 2 10.0%
  • Greene

    Votes: 4 20.0%
  • Casspi

    Votes: 2 10.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Well, you can't win them all. Not even when you are the mighty Sacramento Kings.

The backcourt came to play, Reke and Thornton gave us a little taste of the future, but the second half of our winning formula, dominant physical interior play was never there tonight as none of our bigs had themselves much of a game. All looked out of synch and uncomfortable at different times (when we weren't smallballing). We still had it close until late, but we just did not feel as potent as we have of late.

With such a long winning streak I have actually had time to pre-prepare a theme rather than having to wing it. Something that has been coming to me slowly over the last few months through various conversations and videos I have watched. So theme tonight is going to be: Pop Stars Who Can Actually Sing. After listenting to the 1000th untalented label-invented fabrication I've heard in the last few years, I decided it was time to give a shoutout to an apparently dying breed -- singers who can actually you know, sing.

Here are some examples of the sort of thing you will NOT see/hear in the rest of this thread:


or


or


or even


and if you can't hear the weakness in that last effort, of a pop star trying to sound like a singer, rather than a singer with power in their voice, hopefully you will after I'm done with this theme.



Offical Boxscore

placeholder...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Garcia ( F ) -- I don't even know what to say here. Yesterday he missed pretty mucn everything and did little of consequence correctly, and I gave him a gentleman's D largely because we won and he was a minor soldier more than ably replaced by Donte and Casspi. Today he missed pretty much everything -- and almost all of them were wide open looks set up repeatedly by various teammates -- and did nothing else of consequence, and I am giving him an F. Why? Well we lost, and a huge part of it was the gaping chest wound that opened up at SF where not only did Cisco suck, but neither of the wildly inconsistent kids could do anything in place of him. In other words we needed him this time, and he wasn't there. His shots could not have been easier or more typical for him and just...nothing. Was gone by the midway point of the third for the second straight game, and if we actually had anybody consistent to replace him with you would have to wonder if he might not be in danger of being replaced. Proabably not for a few months though, or whenever the lockout starts allowing FA signings.
Kelly Clarkson -- I was wondering who to start this thing off with, and I thought why not start with the woman who was voted in 2010 the #1 Pop voice of all time. I am not necessarily endorsing that poll result btw, but there is no doubt that the girl can really sing. The gap between a singer at this level, and an autotuned corporate creation is immense. Very few people can do this.

Cousins ( C- ) -- disappointing game from DeMarcus, and really our entire frontcourt. But in his case I think the explanation might be as simple as tired legs. In a lot of ways DeMarcus does not have the whole concept of being a professional down yet -- core parts fo that title is you show up and do work rain or shine, in a good mood or bad, tired or fresh, wiht a bumpy red rash on your...er...um, anyway, that ain't DeMarcus at this point. When something is even a little off with him, its directly reflected on the court. And I think I've seen him play enough to tell when he just had no legs. And that's what it looked like out there. When it happens, he just loses all the force from his game. The rebounding disppears, and it did, the post playing disappears, and it did -- most of what offense he did produce were passive long jumpers. And he really wants to function primarily as a passer when he's tired. And he dropped in some nifty ones again. But he was just out there trying them again an again, and along wiht the nifty ones were all kinds of low percentage ones leading to another swath of turnovers. He managed to block a couple of shots on defense, but notably both were standing flatfooted. Finally had a couple of forceful pays late, with a beautiful crossover bewtween the legs and drive to the hoop fromt eh top of the key,and a huge slam off a sharp Thornton/Reke passing sequence with 2:30 to go. But they were long islands and too little too late in a very middling little 11pt 4reb night with 5TOs tacked on for good measure.
Cyndi Lauper -- one of the other choices I had to make is over what time span was I going to select people, and finally I decided that anyone stil active and making new music was good enough. I liked the Lauper pick anyway because I think it may be a bit of surprise to some people who only know her by her quirky highly mannered image. But I realized some years after her first burst of popularity that looking back on it, she really had a heck of a voice when she wanted to use it. Take a listen to the song above -- that was a song originally written for Roy Orbison, but he let her release her version first. And having listened to both versions, I am not at all sure hers isn't better. Anybody who can outsing a singing legend like Roy Orbison on his own song has a heck of a voice. Here was Roy's, silky as always, version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptdePsIZUHg

Dalembert ( C- ) -- another one of our disappointing bigs, and hwo knows as long as we are distributing excuses, maybe this one was still because of the bruised ribs. Was quickly into foul trouble with two early ones against Nene, who at least obliged by missing all 4 Fts. But we left them in there, and after a few minutes of providing defense and rebounding he challenged a shot you just should not challenge with 2 early fouls, pikced up his 3rd foul only 4 moniutes into the game and sat until half. Minutes in the second half were spotty, and spottily productive. Some good rebounds in the early minutes after the break, and a flat out nice pass right between two Nuggets legs to a slashing Thornton -- our passing has improved so much that we now have Samuel Dalembert, career assist average <1, throwing passes between opponent's legs to cutters. Picked up his 4th and final foul when he mishandled a nice pass from Reke late, resulting in a turnover and a Nuggets break. He got back in time to challenge (actually kind of impressive given that he turned it over right under the opposing hoop), but all he could do was give Gallinari a +1. Gave us decent rebounding numbers, and not much else in his limited minutes.
Christina Aguilera -- she was called for from the peanut gallery, but really there never was any doubt she was going to be included. Of that pack of pop stars who came up around the millenium -- Britney, Aguilera, JLo, Simpson, Mandy Moore etc. Christina was the one who could really sing. Little girl with a big voice. As an aside, while most of the songs selected are not surprisingly going to be ballads, since its much easier to disguise a lack of pipes on highly produced uptempo stuff, one of my other criteria is I wanted these to all be pop stars at least as famous for their uptempo poppish songs, and not just professional adult contemprary type ballad singers. Christina is certainly a pop star in all ways, but she is one armed with a real weapon. Let Keisha try to sing this song and see what happens.

Thornton ( B+ ) -- has rapidly become maybe our most consistent player. Just started off the game on fire again and drained 3 threes on the Nuggets in the first quarter as they were apparently listening to their announcers too much about how Marcus wasn't ****. Or maybe was ****. Having them and Walton assault my ears on back to back nights was getting aggravating. Back in in the second and immediately came up with a nice dropoff pass to JT for a little flip. In the first hal f did not seem much intereaction with Reke, and thre up a 1 on 1 forced three as soon as Reke went out with 3:30 to go in the half. Was so hot that he started drawing doubles -- the third King capable of doing that, which of course is the stuff you can build offense around. Couple of bad plays to end the first half as he chucked up a bad 2 for 1 3pt attempt with no ball movement that had no chance. And then messed up the final play of the half, throwing the pass between Beno and Donte and straight out of bounds. Seemed to lose his shooting touch in the third, and in the midst of Denver's run added a bad little touch foul trying to defend the break that gave Gallinari the +1. Seemed to get a 2nd wind in the early 4th with a good, if slightly late, pass over to Beno on the break for a jumper, and a slash to the rim to get us the lead back. Really tough drive at the 3:50 mark, but forced the next one as you could again see the youth and inexperience crop up down the stretch as guys started trying to do it themselves. Dropped in a last three in the final mintes, but too little but to late. Is taking a LOT of threes now, and maybe that is the wy he is going to fit with Cousins and Reke inside. Certainly if he continues taking 10 threes a game and hitting 40% of them it takes a lot of pressure off of us in who we select at SF.
Mariah Carey -- once I made the decision that not everybody had to be under 25, it would be a strange list of this nature indeed that did not include Mariah and her 5 octave range. I intentionally went back to Mariah's early career for one of her more famous performances of one of her more famous songs (does not hurt that she was really hot back then). I don't think she had quite the power of her rival coming up a little later, but her range and control was spectacular at that time, and you can see her just having the crowd eating out of her hands. I have heard that she has rediscovered discipline in recent years after a long period of experimentation and sometimes lazy performances, which is a good thing.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#3
Udrih ( B- ) -- was distributing well from the beginning, and one of the promising developments we've had is not only Reke coming back looking to pass, but Beno showing a deft little understanding of what is needed, and sort of dialing back his own offense and stepping back in the shadows so that Reke/Cousins/Thornton can be featured. Tonight he dished out more assists than he had shot attempts, and that can only help his argument for minutes next to the stars. A few too many loose turnovers, but played pretty hard, and seemed to have more energy than some of his teamamtes. In the early going made a steal up top, which was great, led the break, and then threw an unnecessary behind the back pass to nobody rather than the easy one to Thornton (should note here that if there is one thing about Thronton that I wish he would tone down a bit, its his look of disgust when something like that happens. Love the competitiveness, but not sure how his teammates feel after he hits them with the evil eye everytime they screw up). Beno continued to show his increased off the ball movement as he made a nice little cut wth Reke posting, and Reke dumped it over his shoulder for the layup. There are again a lot of plays starting to show up that look like things from our old Princeton sets, or maybe the Triangle. Started the third geting the ball moving again, although not to great effect. Was having quickness problems on defense, and started getting beat up in the 3rd too, including doing a split trying to defend the break that had every male Kingsfan wincing and checking himself to make sure everything was still there. We floated in and out of our three guard lineup, and with our SFs so awful it did ok, but not great. With Reke playing well and apparently cleared for the full go on Friday, be interesting to see how the minutes all play out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNoouLa7uxA&feature=related
Jewel -- there was also a call from the peanut gallery for this woman, and while she was not on my intiial list, I think she should have been. Is she pop? Sure, close enough. Not all pop has to be electronic based or basically light R&B. She's just more country pop or folk pop. In any case long before anybody had discovered that she was hot or that she had big talents, she could always sing. Great writer too.


Bench

Thompson ( C ) -- in with more solid play in the early going, a little move inside, a long jumper, and again really working well with Reke both as a receiver and a passer. Was looking under control offenisvely and all was well. Well, mostly well. The one thing he wasn't getting done was much on the glass, but since his opponent's weren't piling them up either, it did not really hurt us. In any case with both Cousisn and Daly having off nights, seemed poised to be the rock inside for us...until thigns fell apart after half. This too could have been fatigue, who knows. But as the Nuggets squeezed Jason seemed to lose his composure and got engaged in an unfortunate competition with Cousins to see whihc one of them could get to half a dozen turnovers first. Bad passes, sloppiness, and after back to back offensive fouls in the early 4th trying to score, he sat next to Westphal for a good chunk of the quarter, and had no effect after returning late.
Pink -- yes, that Pink. The girl with the punk hairdo and singer of fist pumping pop rock anthems. But there is a helluva more to her than that. I have become an unabashed Pink fan (I started off an abashed Pink fan as I obviously am not the demographic she is aiming at, but the more of her stuff I heard and more I learned the more I became convinced that she was something special, and so I grew un). Lot of good things to be said about her - great songwriter, great sense of humor, fun videos, and a rare honesty in her music. But on top of that she can really sing. If you think the song above was some sort of one time fluke, then let me refer you to this remarkable performance of hers at last year's Grammy's:
I guarantee you she's the only singer on this list who can sing like that while performing gymnastics dangling 50 feet above the auditorium floor -- I would have probably just projectile vomited on the crowd and called it a night.

Greene ( D ) -- it was a sign of things to come when he entered the game and immediately missed his first dunk. Missed repeatedly down the stretch of the first half and I guess Westphal decided then and there that this was going to be one of "those" games for Donte, and rarely played him after half.
Whitney Houston -- and once I put Mariah on this list, I could hardly leave off this woman. I don't think I could have anyway. She is far past her prime of course, having ruined that prime in more traditional rockstar fashion (drugs, bad romantic choices) than the modern pop starlet booze and sex tapes approach. But whatever Kelly Clarkson's poll said, Whitney would just have to go down as one of the greatest voices in pop music history. This song was originally written by Dolly Parton, but Houston made it her own and one of the most successful singles of all time, and the vocal explosion at the 3:10 mark has gone down as one of the most famous vocal dsiplays in pop history. I want to hear that Rebecca Black chick take a shot at it, just for kicks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#4
Evans ( A- ) -- to give you an idea of just how potent Reke was (and really was in back to back games), he put up 22pts 7ast on 10-16 shooting..in only 28min. If you extened that out to his normal 38min you are talking about a 30-10 night. Was brought in early as Westphal again sacrificed our size to go small with Reke at SF and Donte at PF. Quick +1 dive past Birdman, and was aggressively in there on the glass again, although I thought that faded as this one went along. Hit a tough fadeaway in the post against Felton, and if you look closely I think you can already see the difference Thronton's arrival and Cousins development has had on the sorts of shots he is getting. He is getting chances in the post against opposing PGs, he's getting more off the ball buckets. The other options, and maybe the coming off the bench too, have kept teams from being able to play their preferred defense against him. Again showed the growth in his game with a number of ncie passes, including a perfectly executed drive and dish to Casspi along the baseline, drawing all the attention to himself and then at the last second dropping the pass to a suddenly wide open Omri along the baseline for a little jumper. Its all the attention he draws with his offensive prowess that can make him a very effective passer if he chooses to be. And tonight he as again and again looking for those dropoff passes, and could easily have had 10+ assists himself if so many of the guys he was dropping them to weren't having off nights. Again showed that one handed bounce pass with a kick to Jeter. Missed the drive to close the 3rd, but thankfully ran it right on time so that we did indeed get the final shot and went into the 4th down just 3. Beautful finish through 2 Nuggets on the break. Next time tried again but did not get it, which had Thonrton doing his head hang again. But were not many of those moments, and saw more of Reke and Thronton working together this game than we have previously -- indeed they were about the only things we had going well. Now we jsut have to get the frontcourt back online and let's see how we do against of course a very tough schedule the rest of the way.
Leona Lewis -- I thought I would use the Brit songbird's most famous song rather than a ballad here just to show that it does make a difference -- you can feel the power of the voice lurking behind this song even before she cuts loose for a real taste of it at the end. As an aside, during her rise to fame she took a shot at Whitney's title with her own version of I Will Always Love You, and didn't come out it entirely battered. Not many can say that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbuvLJnAysM&feature=related

Casspi ( C- ) -- did a few good things out there, but ultimately too many mistakes and not an inspired effort. Got a little baseline jumper from Reke in the 2nd that would end up being his only score. Went up too soft after Jackson hit him with a nice pass inside, and got the shot blocked. Offense was scruffy, but some good defensive boards in the early 4th. Came up with steal off of Harringotn or Nene to trigger a break in the mid 4th but play wasn't exactly inspiring you wiht confidence. Got fouled but missed both big FTs with us still in the dogfight with 6 minutes to go. Had a near TO when he threw a very casual inbounds pass, and ultimately we were 0-3 on the old SFs who actually could help us scale.
Toni Braxton -- running short of spots now, and was having a little trouble deciding how to close this topic out. Older singer or newer one. What brand of pop etc. Well here I went with an older singer who may in fact not even be pop anymore, but rather R&B. Even at her absolute peak in the mid-90s she was heavily R&B inspired, but following the financial disaster that ruined her career I think she has slid almost entirely over to the R&B side of things. But regardless of genre she can/could really sing with a naturally sultry voice and of course this famous song put a lot of it on display.

Jackson ( B ) -- in and hit a little midrange jumper, was hustling and scrapping for rebounds, and while he didn't come up with many of them, he deflected several and won us a couple of possessions. I rarely say this, but I wish we had seen more of him after half with nobody else on the frontline able to sustain any push.
Beyonce -- I thought I would go ahead and tag one of the more recent R&B pop singers and find Beyonce an interesting case. I thnk if you listen to her she is clearly a step behnd most of the people tagged in this thread. But her problem really seems as much a lack of control as lack of voice. You can hear that she's got a powerful voice in songs like this, but its just all over the place. Which I guess may not qualify her to really hang with the artistes who do have that control, but at least she seems to have the potential if she ever calms down.

Jeter ( INC ) -- in for the beat up Beno late in the third and and immediately got to a defensive board, and quickly ruswed the ball ahead to Reke on the break for a dunk. Hit a jumper as well off the long one handed bounce pass from Reke.
Ann Wilson -- okay I'm cheating here. I cheated. So sue me. I was taking a long look at Alicia Keys, who I like even if she is pretty clearly R&B, I was pondering which side of the Rihanna debate I come down on, I even thought about whether to throw Katy Perry a little credit for showing she can sing a little with Firework. But in the end I thought many of the top options I was coming up with were good singers, not great singers. And so I decided to cheat and close with a great one instead. Ann Wilson is considered by many to be the greatest female rock singer of all time. She kind of ate herself out of job there by the early 90s, but the voice was just crystal in a genre that never required it. I am cheating a bit here, but by the time this song was written in the mid to late 80s Heart (her band) was more pop rock than true rock, so I'll squeeze it in that way, and wrap things up now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#5
Addendum:

Oops, somebody just sent me something that I thought really should be included, but I've run out of things to grade. So I'll grade myself:

Brickayer ( A+ ) -- just an amazingly special person. Gotta love him.
Adele -- young Brit with a special enough voice to get me to reopen this thing just to include her.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#7
I think we also need to add Katy Perry's California Girls video. For, um, the sake of comparison with the rest.




Edit: That Rebecca Black video is an abomination. Clearly her dad knew someone who knew someone who owed him a favor.
 
#14
We must be talking about a different Rihanna. Rihanna hits those notes beautifully.
I'd hit her notes, lol. She's nice looking, just happen to think she's a terrible singer. She's not tone def, but most of them should be since they are all professionally trained, but her voice is very mediocre.
 
#15
Not sure Jewel would be considered "Pop" but she can really sing.

I've always had a little guilty pleasure for Avril Lavigne's voice. I remember hearing her sing live when she was younger (late teens) and I thought she was pretty talented. Her voice is uniquely Canadian..Not for everyone.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#17
I didn't get a chance to watch this game. Based on looking at the boxscore, our scoring kept decreasing every quarter. Can't score 100+ every night I guess but I expected a little more out of one of Cousins, Dalembert, Garcia. Garcia/Dalembert throw up two stinkers in a row, I know Dalembert barely played so that might be a reason and Donte/Omri didn't give us jack. It also doesn't help to have two of your big men with 10 TO's out of the team's 20. I hope we get our revenge back in Sac because this Denver team is beatable and I expect a closer game next meeting.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#18
I didn't get a chance to watch this game. Based on looking at the boxscore, our scoring kept decreasing every quarter. Can't score 100+ every night I guess but I expected a little more out of one of Cousins, Dalembert, Garcia. Garcia/Dalembert throw up two stinkers in a row, I know Dalembert barely played so that might be a reason and Donte/Omri didn't give us jack. It also doesn't help to have two of your big men with 10 TO's out of the team's 20. I hope we get our revenge back in Sac because this Denver team is beatable and I expect a closer game next meeting.
Our three sf's combined for 2-15 fg's, 0-2 ft's, 6 rebs, 0 asts. That is absolutely horribe. Cousins and Dally didn't play well, but we simpy have to get something from our sf position.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#19
Our three sf's combined for 2-15 fg's, 0-2 ft's, 6 rebs, 0 asts. That is absolutely horribe. Cousins and Dally didn't play well, but we simpy have to get something from our sf position.
Yeah that is straight up ridiculous man, we had only two players in the 20's, if Cousins had stepped up and give us 16-18 with 8-9 rebounds and less TO's we would of won. But no if's, but's and whatever, it's inexcusable to be that inconsistent when the night before two of them were playing exceptional. Garcia, I don't know what his problem has been, he's been stinking it up the last two.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#21
Dally was in foul trouble, and then forgotten by Coach. I really think Cousins has hit the wall. He is giving us maybe one good game out of four these days. Sloppy play by JT rounded out our bad frontcourt for the night.

...Nene always seems to grab a ton of boards against us, and he's generally pretty weaksauce in that department. Disgusting.


I only watched about 1 1/2 quarters of this one, so I didnt really get a good look at the Reke/Thorton combo. They both put up good numbers though, so I guess that is a good sign.

Reke seems to be shaking off the rust. His play was kind of iffy (mentally) in the fourth. But some of his "hero" drives were no calls and should have sent him to the line. Dude should take flopping lessons from Martin (jk!).

We REALLY REALLY REALLY need a SF this offseason. Cisco has been scrappy since his return. But you cant spell scrappy without crappy. Greene and Omri have been ridiculously inconsistent, and thats on Westphal. Dude jerks those guys around so much, its no wonder they havent developed. I think we trade one of them this offseason, and whoever it is is going to blow up into a 15ppg scorer with their new team.


Post trade Nuggets are a great team. 13-4 now after Melo. We played them tough on their home court, at least until the meltdown of the final minutes. I dont even know who we play next, but I'm calling a win!
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#23
Kevin Spacey believe it or not is a good singer, tho not a "pop star". Hey, us grandparents know sumthin. Anyway, Denver is good and runs and play all the time at 5,000 ft elevation. Losing Dalem in first 3 min hurt, and 11 unforced TO's ( I counted them!) and the 16-18 pts they gave them were the real killers. Tyreke gets B+, Thorton a B and the rest C's and D's tho a couple were A- or B+ in first half.
.
 
#25
i think we couldve won if casspi played less. I like how he competes but i feel like hes going to force a shot or turnover the ball everytime. even though donte cant really shoot, except for the last couple of games, he does a lot of other stuff to make up for that deficiency. I think we have a good chance to win Friday's game.
 
#26
I'd hit her notes, lol. She's nice looking, just happen to think she's a terrible singer. She's not tone def, but most of them should be since they are all professionally trained, but her voice is very mediocre.

Yup!! She's a packaged 'autotuned' product that isn't the worst voice, but I'd never download or buy any of her stuff...she's way to monotonous! Hey Brick, you better have some Prince and Maxwell up there...IMO, those are the 2 greatest pop voices in the world right now...and Prince is 53, too!
 
#27
Yup!! She's a packaged 'autotuned' product that isn't the worst voice, but I'd never download or buy any of her stuff...she's way to monotonous! Hey Brick, you better have some Prince and Maxwell up there...IMO, those are the 2 greatest pop voices in the world right now...and Prince is 53, too!
Maxwell is so underrated, its ridiculous. Ryan Leslie is another one that doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#28
Maxwell is so underrated, its ridiculous. Ryan Leslie is another one that doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
There will be no external genitalia in this thread, sorry. We don't consistently ask that men can really sing, and accordingly they rarely do.
 
#30
Anyone else noticed that as our lead started to dwindle and we eventually fell behind, the guys started playing more and more selfishly? It may have been a result of people not moving and just not running the offense properly in general, but I saw a lot of dribbling, little passing, and when they did pass it was because they were forced to.

The team is young and I have a feeling they are very very bipolar. When things are going well they are able to space the floor well, play with energy and move the ball. But once things start taking a turn it's back to IMA gonna be a hero yoz.

I totally agree with the Garcia F. He hasn't been playing very good defense, and his shot is just off. I voted Garcia because you expect a veteran like him to at least give you some consistency and effort. Greene and Omri's minutes have been inconsistent, and the whole world knows that they can't be relied on. Donte's been giving us a stretch of very very good games, but we should be thankful for them rather than expect that he play that well every game. In other words, you aren't going to win the game if you're counting on Greene to step up. If he does, it puts us in a very good position to win, but it shouldn't be like plan A. Garcia on the other hand ...

Lastly, I somehow recall a time when people said that JT had decent hands. For all his contributions and hustle, JT has horrible, horrible hands. If he could catch balls more cleanly we'd easily get a couple more easy baskets every game