Did Lebron James Make the Right Decision?
- Thread starter ElRey
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I'm just saying that we were stuck in the lottery, not because we moved Webber and Vlade, but because we mismanaged the team for many seasons. Sometimes you lose your best players, but you manage to remain a viable threat. Not so with us, and it's not just because we lost one-legged Webber and bad back Vlade (who played a total of 15 games and 130 minutes after leaving). The Maloofs and Petrie made some bad calls.
We're talking about four years. LeBron signed this extension and negotiated in a player option back in 2006. Short term, long term, both are applicable. The Cavs mismanaged their team in ways we don't even remember, hired a rookie head coach, traded for also-rans and over the hill former stars, and now they're stuck with the aftermath. Had a shot at Amare last year, and ultimately failed to pull the trigger. Their second best player was a combination of Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison's scoring potential.
I agree that he put them in a somewhat awkward position, but they screwed it up just as much as he abandoned them at the altar. Like you said, Dan Gilbert enabled and enabled, and has nothing to show for it but $9 million in cap space and a stupid letter.
We're talking about four years. LeBron signed this extension and negotiated in a player option back in 2006. Short term, long term, both are applicable. The Cavs mismanaged their team in ways we don't even remember, hired a rookie head coach, traded for also-rans and over the hill former stars, and now they're stuck with the aftermath. Had a shot at Amare last year, and ultimately failed to pull the trigger. Their second best player was a combination of Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison's scoring potential.
I agree that he put them in a somewhat awkward position, but they screwed it up just as much as he abandoned them at the altar. Like you said, Dan Gilbert enabled and enabled, and has nothing to show for it but $9 million in cap space and a stupid letter.
I think you may be missing what truly rallies people. The jerseys might have been burnt, they would have been upset, but also depressed/despondent. They have been **** on so many times as a city and a fanbase, to have one of their own, and the greatest athlete who will likely ever play for their city do it to them was just the confirmation of doom. How can you hope after that? What you need is a leader, who pours out your anger and your angst and says **** LBJ and **** the world, we're going to do this thing anyway. That changes the whole dynamic. Now they have something to follow, something to rally behind. Without that moment, that rallying point, the fanbase just sinks into depressed silence, the arena empties, and it all fades away. Now Gilbert has given them something to rally behind and fight for, and until it becomes apparent just how empty the promises are, just how impotent the anger, this is exactly the sort of thing that was needed to try to hold the fanbase together and give them a common purpose.
I am not disputing that, I'm just saying Peja and Bibby weren't junk players. Miller wasn't yet though he was on a fast track. Bobby was still good. So much is made of how if the Cavs shoot straight to the bottom of the lotto heap that proves that LeBron played with nothing but scrubs, I am saying he had some decent but not great talent, but probably better than what the Heat are going to fill in at roster spots 5-15. He didn't have a #2 and desparately needed one, ironically they would have finally delivered that this off season had he already not had his mind made up to book town.
I guess I'm just fastforwarding to that moment you described, when it becomes apparent how ridiculously out of touch Gilbert's verbal diarrhea was, and they 'sink into depressed silence, the arena empties and it all fades away' anyways. Maybe if they make the playoffs and make some noise, it holds them over until they can actually contend, but that would require Dan Gilbert hiring a front office man with some credentials and the ability to make some good moves, and it would require Byron Scott not blowing his third chance as a head coach.
What I'm trying to say if it isn't clear is that their best chance to get a #2 would have involved them making moves that may have set them back a year or two so they could make a big leap forward but that wasn't possible with the threat of LeBron bailing on the team so they settled for incremental improvements each year (that he wanted).
Okay, but they had him under contract. We talked a few days ago about Kobe not being happy with the path that the Lakers took, but that path -- along with some prodding from him -- ultimately led them back into contention in a short period of time, and he just signed another extension with them. In the middle of that, he demanded a trade, which ownership refused. From 2004, when he signed his seven year deal, til 2008, when they made the Finals, was four years. That's how long it took for them to prove that they could build a winner around him.
Let's say the Cavs said in 2006, "Okay, LeBron is going to explore free agency in 2010, so what's our best chance of winning a championship and being a long-term contender? Is it making incremental improvements every year, or is it taking some drastic action now to get him a true second option, and building a potential dynasty for the next ten years?" They chose the former, which involved adding Donyell Marshall, Boobie Gibson, Delonte West, Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, and Shaquille O'Neal, along with continuing to start Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao every season. No second option. No bench. The Cavs failed to put solid pieces around him, and they had four years to do so.
If they had chosen the latter, and he'd been pissed off in 2008 as they battle for a playoff spot, and let's say he demanded a trade, they could have said, "No, we're not trading you, just trust us and everything will be okay," same as the Lakers did with Kobe. I don't know exactly what path they could have taken to put them in serious contention and have a better shot at a ring than they've had the past two years (said path would have included hiring a better coach than Mike Brown; I don't want to hear about his personal achievements with the Cavs, we all know he wasn't a good coach). All I'm saying is that the option they chose wasn't the only option. He may have painted them in a box, but they made the box unnecessarily restrictive.
And now they're stuck with bad contracts and no star player.
Let's say the Cavs said in 2006, "Okay, LeBron is going to explore free agency in 2010, so what's our best chance of winning a championship and being a long-term contender? Is it making incremental improvements every year, or is it taking some drastic action now to get him a true second option, and building a potential dynasty for the next ten years?" They chose the former, which involved adding Donyell Marshall, Boobie Gibson, Delonte West, Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, and Shaquille O'Neal, along with continuing to start Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao every season. No second option. No bench. The Cavs failed to put solid pieces around him, and they had four years to do so.
If they had chosen the latter, and he'd been pissed off in 2008 as they battle for a playoff spot, and let's say he demanded a trade, they could have said, "No, we're not trading you, just trust us and everything will be okay," same as the Lakers did with Kobe. I don't know exactly what path they could have taken to put them in serious contention and have a better shot at a ring than they've had the past two years (said path would have included hiring a better coach than Mike Brown; I don't want to hear about his personal achievements with the Cavs, we all know he wasn't a good coach). All I'm saying is that the option they chose wasn't the only option. He may have painted them in a box, but they made the box unnecessarily restrictive.
And now they're stuck with bad contracts and no star player.
If I had to look at it from the perspective that Lebron just wanted to play basketball with his friends and just win then I understand but everything that Lebron has done (up to this point) was because of himself and his future. And he didn’t have to destroy the Cavs fans in the process by going on national television and hurting so many people like that. He could have just chose his team and moved on, but he made a spectacle out of the whole thing and in the process he hurt his image big time.
He had something in Cleveland that nobody else in the league -right now- doesn’t have and can’t even imagine. And that’s the fan love (and that’s an understatement). No other team could give Lebron that type of adoration, loyalty and passion that the Cavs fans have given him. And all in a blink of an eye he destroyed that feeling. You can’t buy that feeling back and he’s going to miss it big time.
Yes, he’s only 25 but this does stain his legacy. What type of “King” as he likes to call himself goes to another team and becomes a sidekick? And again, maybe he just wants to play ball with his friends and win and he doesn’t care about his image in the long run. But I don’t buy that. He talks about being the best, but being the best doesn’t sacrifice himself like that. He’s a big Jordan fan and Jordan would never have done that. Wade is the smartest. He got Bosh and Lebron. Bosh isn’t even in the same category as Lebron or Wade so that doesn’t matter if he moved to Miami. Wade is keeping his image and Lebron hurt his.
It will also be interesting to see how James and Wade’s friendship will last in these years. If these guys can be on the same level then it should be fine, but ego is a powerful thing.
I didn’t get to see the interview on TV but I saw some part of it on youtube and I got the feeling that Lebron really wasn’t that happy. He seemed a little more serious, less smiles and excitement. It also makes me wonder if his “team” really was pushing him in the wrong direction. And I’m not directing the blame on them but it does seem that Lebron relies on his friends a lot.
Why did Lebron talk about himself in 3rd person? That was weird…Also, even though I hate Lebron’s decision to leave the Cavs, I thought the letter from Dan Gilbert was bad and kinda childish…Maybe he should have just waited for Lebron to sign the contract before you blast him after his tv interview.
He had something in Cleveland that nobody else in the league -right now- doesn’t have and can’t even imagine. And that’s the fan love (and that’s an understatement). No other team could give Lebron that type of adoration, loyalty and passion that the Cavs fans have given him. And all in a blink of an eye he destroyed that feeling. You can’t buy that feeling back and he’s going to miss it big time.
Yes, he’s only 25 but this does stain his legacy. What type of “King” as he likes to call himself goes to another team and becomes a sidekick? And again, maybe he just wants to play ball with his friends and win and he doesn’t care about his image in the long run. But I don’t buy that. He talks about being the best, but being the best doesn’t sacrifice himself like that. He’s a big Jordan fan and Jordan would never have done that. Wade is the smartest. He got Bosh and Lebron. Bosh isn’t even in the same category as Lebron or Wade so that doesn’t matter if he moved to Miami. Wade is keeping his image and Lebron hurt his.
It will also be interesting to see how James and Wade’s friendship will last in these years. If these guys can be on the same level then it should be fine, but ego is a powerful thing.
I didn’t get to see the interview on TV but I saw some part of it on youtube and I got the feeling that Lebron really wasn’t that happy. He seemed a little more serious, less smiles and excitement. It also makes me wonder if his “team” really was pushing him in the wrong direction. And I’m not directing the blame on them but it does seem that Lebron relies on his friends a lot.
Why did Lebron talk about himself in 3rd person? That was weird…Also, even though I hate Lebron’s decision to leave the Cavs, I thought the letter from Dan Gilbert was bad and kinda childish…Maybe he should have just waited for Lebron to sign the contract before you blast him after his tv interview.
True, but the contraact was only for three years. On KHTK yesterday, they were talking to a Cleveland sports guy after the announcement (sorry, didn't catch his name). He was saying the fact that he only signed a new Cavs contract for three years was sending a clear signal to people that he wanted to be able to ditch Cleveland, if he felt like it. He wanted to be free to leave Cleveland in a shorter term.
In the opinion of the commentator, for free agents who might've considered signing with Cavs just so they could play with LeBron, they couldn't see signing a long-term or max contract with the Cavs, only to see LBJ hot foot it outta town. In other words, the commentator felt the short contract just added another difficulty for the Cavs trying to get a big time free agent.
I know the Cavs fans were elated James signed that 3-year contract at the time. Maybe it would have been better to go after his rookie contract was up. Won't commit to more than a 3-year contract, then walks out. Cavs fans kind of got smacked twice. Maybe when they cool off a little, though, they'll appreciate the extra 3 years they had him. I doubt it, though. I wouldn't want to be James, when he plays in Cleveland next year. I'd be wanting to stay clear of Ohio, period.
In the opinion of the commentator, for free agents who might've considered signing with Cavs just so they could play with LeBron, they couldn't see signing a long-term or max contract with the Cavs, only to see LBJ hot foot it outta town. In other words, the commentator felt the short contract just added another difficulty for the Cavs trying to get a big time free agent.
I know the Cavs fans were elated James signed that 3-year contract at the time. Maybe it would have been better to go after his rookie contract was up. Won't commit to more than a 3-year contract, then walks out. Cavs fans kind of got smacked twice. Maybe when they cool off a little, though, they'll appreciate the extra 3 years they had him. I doubt it, though. I wouldn't want to be James, when he plays in Cleveland next year. I'd be wanting to stay clear of Ohio, period.
How soon we forget Kobe demanded a trade from Charlotte as opposed to staying and making the franchise relevant. LeBron has been in Cleveland for 7 years and the organization failed to provide him with a #2. So now Kobe is loyal because he stayed in LA for the 2 seasons that they sucked? Not only did he ask for a trade but we have to remember he had already won 3 rings. Bron has zero and is now entering the prime of his career. He just realized if he wants to win he has to gtfo. KG told him loyalty is a dead end street in bball if you want to WIN. Having said that I would personally have stayed in Cleveland. I'd rather have my self respect than a ring.
I think he made the wrong decision. Yes, it will be amazing to see the 3 of them on the court for the same team. The Lakers still match up well with them though, both offensively and defensively. Anyway, I think the Bulls would have been the right decision. Rose, ??, LeBron, Boozer, Noah has everything other than outside shooting, but they could conveniently sign Korver or someone to start at the 2 and they'd be set. Then they have Gibson, Deng, Pargo and Johnson off the bench. Pargo sucks but that's a pretty good rotation
The thing is that 06 was actually the year they had to sign him to the first extension, so that wasn't really an option if there wasn't improvement there he'd have forced his way out then. The following year was the year he finally showed what he really had and willed a marginal team to the Finals on his own. It was also when he began openly flirting with NY that off season. Now coming off a finals appearance they absolutely had to go for it the next year and they did, and I think at that point it became clear that they needed to take a step back - but at that point they were down to two years remaining and LeBron was already as good as gone.
Yes, they botched it but I don't see how you can't hold him accountable for basically forcing their hands at that point by sending all the signals that he sent. You make it sound like the 7 years he gave them was all the time in the world when the fact is he came to the team out of high school, spent a few years learning on the job and got them into the position where they probably would have won once in the next 5 years. And you know winning once in Cleveland would have been legendary. Statue outside the arena, streets, hell even arenas and public buildings named after you legendary. A savior to a city mired in 50 years of misery. I would think as a Colts fan you'd appreciate that more than I do as a Boston fan where titles are often expected.
Everybody can't win a title every year. We've all pronounced Tyreke to be a special player, though we note that the numbers don't tell the story much was made about how his numbers compared to LeBron (and MJ and Oscar). So what is the magic number where the Kings have to win a title or they've let Evans down?
Yes, they botched it but I don't see how you can't hold him accountable for basically forcing their hands at that point by sending all the signals that he sent. You make it sound like the 7 years he gave them was all the time in the world when the fact is he came to the team out of high school, spent a few years learning on the job and got them into the position where they probably would have won once in the next 5 years. And you know winning once in Cleveland would have been legendary. Statue outside the arena, streets, hell even arenas and public buildings named after you legendary. A savior to a city mired in 50 years of misery. I would think as a Colts fan you'd appreciate that more than I do as a Boston fan where titles are often expected.
Everybody can't win a title every year. We've all pronounced Tyreke to be a special player, though we note that the numbers don't tell the story much was made about how his numbers compared to LeBron (and MJ and Oscar). So what is the magic number where the Kings have to win a title or they've let Evans down?
My understanding at the time was that Charlotte picked Kobe at the Lakers request as part of the deal for Vlade that was necessary so that the Lakers could sign Shaq.
Kobe was in fact a jerk at the draft saying he would only play for a major market but it never actually came down to a game of chicken because he was picked at the Lakers request.
Kobe was in fact a jerk at the draft saying he would only play for a major market but it never actually came down to a game of chicken because he was picked at the Lakers request.