I am disappointed.

[pdxKingsFan]

The way it turned out I was a little disappointed because we didn't get the additional sweetener I thought we would. I was alright with original deal and I'm fine with it, just thought we'd end up with a little more, thats all.

The sweetener included taking on a contract that we apparently didn't want (Jeffries). It really isn't a horrible contract but if we took the sweetener we'd have less options this offseason. We're going to get a nice draft pick this year, we've got a nice core set up so the question is how much longer do we want to put off the chance to sign a vet and start seriously competing? I'd rather get away from the culture of losing as soon as possible, its part of the reason I am fine with getting rid of most anyone who was on the team the past 3 seasons before this.

 

[discocricket]

See I don't think the sweetener was necessarily linked with the Jeffries contract. IIRC the NY proposal was out there for a day or so. The Rockets basically got that deal plus a swap of Martin for Landry, which for them is a talent upgrade and more in line with their mix of veteran players. Just because that deal got done doesn't mean Petrie couldn't have picked off a piece of it for giving the Rockets the best player in the deal. We'll never know.....but Petrie isn't exactly known for playing hardball in trades or with agents.

 

[JCDenton]

It concerns me that Petrie got rolled by the GMs of the Rockets and Knicks at the last minute, with some possible contribution from Arn Tellem. I don't really understand the concept of doing an agent or GM a favor. So in 4 years Tellem will...suggest Tyreke accept less than the max? No. Suggest he stay in Sac? Maybe, but we're told that Tyreke's family/clan has the most influence in his decision-making. If we did Houston or New York favors, why? Aren't they competitors? It doesn't matter if it didn't cost us anything. This is a business. Are the GMs supposed to remember these favors and pay them back? What if they are fired before we cash in the favor? If NY wanted the T-Mac contract back, make them give us Hill, or another pick. It bothers me that we don't seem to maximize our take from trades like other smart GMs like Morey, Presti do.

I don't think that really happened though. It's more like you helped us (the Rockets) roll the Knicks at no extra cost to your team. There are tons of reasons for GMs to do favors for each other. It often seems to be the same GMs dealing with each other over and over, and personal relationships come into play pretty often. Now it looks like the Rockets and Kings are getting something going. If you'll recall, we gave you what turned out to be a couple of decent prospects for a one year Artest rental. At the time it made sense and we probably would have won the title had everyone stayed healthy, but the Kings definitely won that deal long-term. Now the Kings have helped facilitate the Rockets robbing the Knicks, and I don't doubt that our GM will help you at some point. No harm in that. The Rockets are looking to contend pretty soon whereas the Kings are on a longer timetable so I don't see us as competitors.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'll say again three things (actually two of which I have said before, one new one):

1) moving Keivn was addition by subtraction

2) Donte, Omri and Beno were all doing quite well next to Reke in the early part of this season. And not 10ppg quite well -- quite well as in sprinkling in 20pt games quite well.

3) The deal really was:

Kevin

for

Carl Landry
free agent to be named later

We got a talented player, and we freed Kevin's salary to go chase somebody else. If that somebody else is a major player we may not even have lost talentwise.

 

[Henkel]

I don't think we got equal value. I just think Carl Landry value was over inflated in Houston and I'm not sure he is a full time starter. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see Landry as all that great.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't think we got equal value. I just think Carl Landry value was over inflated in Houston and I'm not sure he is a full time starter. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see Landry as all that great.

I don't think he's a starter either. Think he's a very good bencher. And an energetic tough guy that will fit right in with our team chemistry.

 

[allrightythen]

I don't think he's a starter either. Think he's a very good bencher. And an energetic tough guy that will fit right in with our team chemistry.

I don't know if you heard Kreidler this morning on the rise guys but this is what he pointed out as the biggest plus of this trade. He said Kevin wasn't a good emotional fit with this team while Carl fits in perfectly. I can see what he meant which maybe makes up for the difference in talent.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I don't give a hoot if Landry is a starter or not - although he very well could be. What I like is that he's currently 2nd leading scorer in the league - in the 4th quarter! As they say, it's not who starts but who finishes - and Carl finishes big time. The bottom line is the dude is very tough, physically and mentally, demanding a double team in the post. Do Hawes, JT or anyone else on the Kings demand a double team down low? Far from it. The last players Kings had in "that league," Ron Artest and Bonzi Wells took the team to the playoffs when no one thought it remotely possible. Landry has a very sweet stroke out to around 18 feet or so. When inside he dunks with authority. Again, who does that on the Kings. Nice deal overall - the best possible for the Kings IMO at the trade deadline.

 

[Henkel]

I don't think he's a starter either. Think he's a very good bencher. And an energetic tough guy that will fit right in with our team chemistry.

I agree with that. Landry definitely has a future role with this team and Kevin did not. I just wish we had gotten more, maybe a pick or a defensive oriented big or small guard in addition to Landry. If we are active in the free agent market this summer then I can live with this trade.

I don't give a hoot if Landry is a starter or not - although he very well could be. What I like is that he's currently 2nd leading scorer in the league - in the 4th quarter! As they say, it's not who starts but who finishes - and Carl finishes big time. The bottom line is the dude is very tough, physically and mentally, demanding a double team in the post. Do Hawes, JT or anyone else on the Kings demand a double team down low? Far from it. The last players Kings had in "that league," Ron Artest and Bonzi Wells took the team to the playoffs when no one thought it remotely possible. Landry has a very sweet stroke out to around 18 feet or so. When inside he dunks with authority. Again, who does that on the Kings. Nice deal overall - the best possible for the Kings IMO at the trade deadline.

Landry doesn't really demand double teams. He is at his best as a cutter inside. He knows how to get open and when he gets the ball he finishes. All this talk about him being a great low post player is kind of confusing to me.

 

[JB_kings]

Kevin's value may have been overinflated as well. He has a reputation for missing big stretches due to injuries. I'm surprised the Rockets wanted him because they have a history of having their big name players being down due to injuries. That said I hope he fits in well and succeeds with the Rockets. Could the Kings have gotten more from Kevin? Obviously this was the best deal. So that answer is no.

If you want to take the rose colored glasses off, you have to take them all the way off and see both sides. There are positives and negatives both ways.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Landry doesn't really demand double teams. He is at his best as a cutter inside. He knows how to get open and when he gets the ball he finishes. All this talk about him being a great low post player is kind of confusing to me.

According to several Houston sources (broadcasters, etc.) on Sports 1140 today Landry did not demand a double team early this season (or at anytime last year) but not now. His inside scoring has been so dominate the past few months teams have had to double him or pay dearly.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I don't think we got equal value. I just think Carl Landry value was over inflated in Houston and I'm not sure he is a full time starter. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see Landry as all that great.

If Anyones stats were inflated by where they play, it's Martin. If he ever scores 25ppg on a playoff team I'll be shocked. And that's not me bashing Martin, it's me giving my honest opinion of his talent. Landry should have the same opportunity here as he did in Houston. Number 1 big man offensive threat there, number 1 big man offensive threat here.

 

[JJ22L]

Here's a question: What prompted this?

The word out of Petrie's office was that they would not trade KMart unless they got an all star level big man in return. You would have to be making quite a stretch to include Landry in that realm.

So something changed. Was it Kevin's odd behavior lately? Getting pounded by the Warriors? Panic?

This is a valid question. One could argue however, that Petrie had already made up his mind to trade Kevin and was attempting to boost Kevin's value a bit with teams looking to get over the hump. Afterall, aside from Amare and the likes, Kevin was one of the best and "available" options out there. But who knows. It's definitely an interesting question though. My money is on the maloofs pushing the cost cutting while silencing the public outcry (exaggerating) regarding the Martin/Evans combo and Petrie recognizing he can kill two birds with one stone by appeasing the boss' desire to save money while leaving the door open to bring in a big gun over the summer (and land a decent pf= Landry).

 

[Henkel]

If Anyones stats were inflated by where they play, it's Martin. If he ever scores 25ppg on a playoff team I'll be shocked. And that's not me bashing Martin, it's me giving my honest opinion of his talent. Landry should have the same opportunity here as he did in Houston. Number 1 big man offensive threat there, number 1 big man offensive threat here.

I'll be shocked if he scores 25ppg on a playoff team as well. I never said Martin should be valued as a 25ppg scorer on a team with depth. Martin can be a efficient 20ppg scorer on a playoff team in the right system. When Yao gets back next year I believe Martin will be a 20ppg scorer and the Rockets are going to be good, like 55+ wins good. Hes going to help spread the floor for Yao inside and Brooks and Lowry are going to make his life easy with their ability to get to the basket and kick. I'm not a big fan of Kevin's for reason both on the court and off, but he has a lot of value for a team like Houston. Kevin wasn't a fit for us that isn't indicative of his value around the league.

I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade and like I said I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see Landry as a number one big man on offense. I have seen him a good bit this year and while there is a lot to like about his skills and how he plays the game I do not see him a big time offensive player.

 

[Kingster]

All these would-ofs, could-ofs, and should-ofs are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is wins and losses at year end. Compare the Kings record with Kevin, and then with Landry. That will be empirical evidence.

 

[Henkel]

All these would-ofs, could ofs, should ofs are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is wins and losses at year end. Compare the Kings record with Kevin and with Landry. That will be empirical evidence.

Empirical evidendce of what? That Landry is a better fit with the this team, sure. That this was a good trade, nope.

 

[steelevt]

So me having a logical discussion on how things went down is crying? Give me a break. Read other threads today. I actually defended Petrie. So please read before you insult people thank you.

i dont see how this thread would be considered crying either. not everyone is ecstatic about the trade. i didnt want kevin to be traded, but if it had to be done, i wanted a good bigman in return. landry, though a decent/good "big", was not what i had in mind (i woulda been happy with a dalembert/okafor/jefferson/bosh...ok we werent getting bosh but you know what i mean). we basically traded martin for landry and capspace. IF we turn that capspace into a great player, ill be happy with the trade overall, but i dont think martin for landry straight across would be a good trade. if we couldnt get our big, i basically wanted what houston got. a vet, a young, and a pick. we didnt get either. so i agree with the TS and im also disappointed...for now.

 

[JJ_Evans]

landry >>> martin..

martin is a shooter... he has no other talents, cept getting to the line a lot and is a liability on defense... landry is just what we need a scoring forward/center that plays defense and gets rebounds...

 

[sdballer]

landry >>> martin..

martin is a shooter... he has no other talents, cept getting to the line a lot and is a liability on defense... landry is just what we need a scoring forward/center that plays defense and gets rebounds...

Exactly. Except he's not in any way a center and he's only an average defender and not that good a rebounder. But exactly the right kind of player besides that.

 

[JJ_Evans]

hes a better defender than any C/F on the kings...

 

[sdballer]

hes a better defender than any C/F on the kings...

So am I.

 

[TTown Kings]

Empirical evidendce of what? That Landry is a better fit with the this team, sure. That this was a good trade, nope.

Wait, I'm confused. If he fits better with the team and they win more it's not a good trade? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Henkel]

Wait, I'm confused. If he fits better with the team and they win more it's not a good trade? That doesn't make any sense.

One of the most common reasons for a trade is overlapping or not conducive talent. When you have a overabundance of a certain type of talent its easy to be made better by trading it away even for lesser talent. That is what i feel happened with this trade. The quality of player we traded away was not equal to what we received, even though the talent we received is a better fit for this team.

 

[Uncia03]

One of the most common reasons for a trade is overlapping or not conducive talent. When you have a overabundance of a certain type of talent its easy to be made better by trading it away even for lesser talent. That is what i feel happened with this trade. The quality of player we traded away was not equal to what we received, even though the talent we received is a better fit for this team.

Kevin was a starting 2 guard and a near-all star talent.
Landry is a major 6th man who brings scoring and a lot of intangibles.

I'll concede that Kevin is the better player. But I think everyone will agree that Landry is going to be a better fit for this team not only for what he brings but also for the 'addition by subtraction' of Martin.

With all that said the one item missing is the price.

Martin may be better than Landry. But is Martin at 10 million better than Landry at 3 million?

At this point in time, especially with what may be taking place with player salaries in the near future, I think that Landry is the better package when you look at both quality of play and price.

In fact, I'd have been pleased to have traded Kevin for Al Jefferson, even though Jefferson isn't the defensive big we need. Considering that Landry makes a 1/4th of what Jefferson makes, but brings the inside scoring we need, I think that Landry is on par with Jefferson when you again consider the quality of play and the price of the player.

Regardless, we still have to get a defensive big on our team, and now we have a lot more financial flexibility to make something happen if we don't pick up a defensive big with our high draft pick.

 

[Henkel]

Kevin was a starting 2 guard and a near-all star talent.
Landry is a major 6th man who brings scoring and a lot of intangibles.

I'll concede that Kevin is the better player. But I think everyone will agree that Landry is going to be a better fit for this team not only for what he brings but also for the 'addition by subtraction' of Martin.

With all that said the one item missing is the price.

Martin may be better than Landry. But is Martin at 10 million better than Landry at 3 million?

At this point in time, especially with what may be taking place with player salaries in the near future, I think that Landry is the better package when you look at both quality of play and price.

In fact, I'd have been pleased to have traded Kevin for Al Jefferson, even though Jefferson isn't the defensive big we need. Considering that Landry makes a 1/4th of what Jefferson makes, but brings the inside scoring we need, I think that Landry is on par with Jefferson when you again consider the quality of play and the price of the player.

Regardless, we still have to get a defensive big on our team, and now we have a lot more financial flexibility to make something happen if we don't pick up a defensive big with our high draft pick.

You make a good argument. I just wonder if that cap space is going to get us much this year with a lot of teams under the cap this off season. We are not in the running for the top tier players and even when all the big names get signed there is going to be a lot of competition for even average players. If we manage to get a nice piece with the cap space we have acquired then this trade will look a whole lot better.

 

[Chupacabra]

This trade gets an F for FAIL. Anything less than a near all star talent or a shotblocking bigman is a fail.

 

[Prince_XY]

I doubt we will be players in the market next year. Man this has Maloofs trying to save money all over it. Why else would we not take on Jeffries contract and gain two draft picks instead of keeping KT. I am disappointed that we did not get the two picks and Lee. This again shows how Maloof dictated what return we got. I think Petrie did the best he could have given the parameters had to work with.

Just like what I was always talking about.

Petrie is lazy but smart enough in that - he won't do anything hard to make this team very good. He will be all silent and just sitting comfortably in his chair ( which explains why there are no media leaks ) just waiting for offers at the last minute. Then, he will just pull the trigger on an anemic trade.

Then, he will just let the hopeless homers who think he is a "genius" to make excuses by making good logic for his move even though clearly the finished product that Petrie came-out with is still very poor. I wonder how many of these fans are Petrie's relatives.

Once again, brilliantly done Mr. Excellent GM.

I wish I have his job. Good to be paid millions by the Maloofs even if you come up with a poor product.

 

[Asaf]

This trade gets an F for FAIL. Anything less than a near all star talent or a shotblocking bigman is a fail.

And who exactly would've given us that all star talent in exchange for Kevin?

 

[NewArena]

Just like what I was always talking about.

Petrie is lazy but smart enough in that - he won't do anything hard to make this team very good. He will be all silent and just sitting comfortably in his chair ( which explains why there are no media leaks ) just waiting for offers at the last minute. Then, he will just pull the trigger on an anemic trade.

Then, he will just let the hopeless homers who think he is a "genius" to make excuses by making good logic for his move even though clearly the finished product that Petrie came-out with is still very poor. I wonder how many of these fans are Petrie's relatives.

Once again, brilliantly done Mr. Excellent GM.

I wish I have his job. Good to be paid millions by the Maloofs even if you come up with a poor product.

Putting your little smilie faces at the end of each sentence doesn't make your post any less ignorant.

 

[Uncia03]

I doubt we will be players in the market next year. Man this has Maloofs trying to save money all over it. Why else would we not take on Jeffries contract and gain two draft picks instead of keeping KT. I am disappointed that we did not get the two picks and Lee. This again shows how Maloof dictated what return we got. I think Petrie did the best he could have given the parameters had to work with.

I broke down the financials in another thread but to gain the rights to Hill plus the option to swap the 2011 pick plus the 2012 draft pick it would have cost the Kings over 12 million dollars.

So let's break down each of those pieces:

Jordan Hill

Considering the fact that we now have JT, Hawes, Brockman, Landry, and Dorsey who are all young big men, and Hill is not a defensive specialist, I don't see how we'd have given him a whole lot of time to develop. So though Hill would have been a nice piece, I don't think he'd have brought us much value. Hill is much more valuable to a team like the Rockets than he would be to us.
Now if we were talking about Thabeet, then it would be a different story as Thabeet at least has the chance to bring us something which we don't have. Hill doesn't really give us anything that we don't have in other players.


Swap of 2011 Draft Picks

If New York is able to sign a superstar then there is a good chance that they'll have a better record than us, especially since they play in the East. It's all speculation though, so you can't say one way or another how good of an option it would be for our team. Regardless I don't see how the Knicks would be 15+ positions better to make this a significant deal.

2012 Draft Pick

Again, there isn't any way to tell where this pick might land. But it probably won't be a top 10 pick.


So in my mind it's a very easy decision. I wouldn't want the Kings to spend 12 million dollars for a young player we don't need, the opportunity to maybe improve our draft position by a few spots, and a draft pick which could range anywhere from 12-26.

I am very, very pleased that we didn't commit financially to assets which are probably not going to be worth it. Hopefully Geoff will find a better means to utilize our new financial flexibility.