Yahoo: Three-way deal sending Nocioni to Celtics? (Yahoo! Sports)

[bajaden]

Lets take a look at Dalembert. He hasn't missed a game in three years, so the injury worry is less with him. He's a very good defensive rebounder. His career rate is around 24%. He has a career block rate of 5.8%, which is pretty damm high. He has a career defensive rating of 101.5. Thats 88th all time in the history of the NBA. He was the third best rebounder in the league last year, and he' 75th in the history of the NBA in total blocks despite only averaging 26 mpg.

Its been on the offensive side of the ball that he's had his problems. His overall shooting percentage is a little over 52%, which isn't terrible, but its not great for a big that plays under the basket. He's a pretty good freethrow shooter at plus 70%. Now that the good stuff is out of the way, lets talk about the bad stuff. He appears to have bad hands. He fumbles passes. He turns the ball over at a high rate, and he's not a particularly good passer. He seems to possess an offensive players mentality, without the skills. This, in my opinion, is what has held him back. If the coaching staff can somehow get him to realize what he's strengths, are and just play to them, he can be a valuable addition. There's absolutely nothing wrong with his defense. Its the mistakes he makes on the offensive side that have limited him as a player.

 

[kupman]

Unless of course this team continues to band/bond together and they keep their head above water. It could happen. I, probably like many others are waiting for the drop off, thinking this can't continue, but what if it can...what if it does??

I am totally with you on this. Chemistry is a fickle and elusive thing in this game. When you happen to stumble upon it I think it might be best to slowly back away. Do not touch it, do not blow on it, do not even spend much time wondering why it happened. Just enjoy it.

We can pontificate all day long on how to make ourselves better, but did we really think the odds were high that we would get over .500 with KHurt going out? How many of us thought that Brandon Jennings would be the best rookie at this point? How dumb are we if we keep believing our own BS?

 

[sidney]

Lets take a look at Dalembert. He hasn't missed a game in three years, so the injury worry is less with him. He's a very good defensive rebounder. His career rate is around 24%. He has a career block rate of 5.8%, which is pretty damm high. He has a career defensive rating of 101.5. Thats 88th all time in the history of the NBA. He was the third best rebounder in the league last year, and he' 75th in the history of the NBA in total blocks despite only averaging 26 mpg.

Its been on the offensive side of the ball that he's had his problems. His overall shooting percentage is a little over 52%, which isn't terrible, but its not great for a big that plays under the basket. He's a pretty good freethrow shooter at plus 70%. Now that the good stuff is out of the way, lets talk about the bad stuff. He appears to have bad hands. He fumbles passes. He turns the ball over at a high rate, and he's not a particularly good passer. He seems to possess an offensive players mentality, without the skills. This, in my opinion, is what has held him back. If the coaching staff can somehow get him to realize what he's strengths, are and just play to them, he can be a valuable addition. There's absolutely nothing wrong with his defense. Its the mistakes he makes on the offensive side that have limited him as a player.

Thx for posting that. It is much more convincing. Perhaps it was just earlier in his career but he seemed to elicit a frequent palm to forehead when watching him. Lots of bad fouls, goaltends, etc. Perhaps he has gotten over some of that...

 

[bajaden]

I am totally with you on this. Chemistry is a fickle and elusive thing in this game. When you happen to stumble upon it I think it might be best to slowly back away. Do not touch it, do not blow on it, do not even spend much time wondering why it happened. Just enjoy it.

We can pontificate all day long on how to make ourselves better, but did we really think the odds were high that we would get over .500 with KHurt going out? How many of us thought that Brandon Jennings would be the best rookie at this point? How dumb are we if we keep believing our own BS?

You mean you don't learn much by just talking to yourself? I will admit, there is some recycling that goes on here.

 

[Vlade4GM]

If we can dump Nocioni's deal, that'd be awesome, but this kills our cap this year I think and next year's free agent class doesn't really have any better options for us.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Love the deal.. being a Canadian myself it saddend me to see Dalembert leave team Canada.. But i still like the guy and there had to be more unknown reasons as to why it happend.. But the dude is exactly what we need.. Long Athletic, surprisingly has a solid jumper. and Obviously would be the best big man defender on our team which would complete our big man rotation for now. And possibly give us a shot at the playoffs.
And if he dosent work out, we have a Huge expiring contract next season to get rid of.

Get it done Petrie.

 

[Superman]

If we can dump Nocioni's deal, that'd be awesome, but this kills our cap this year I think and next year's free agent class doesn't really have any better options for us.

I don't think we're going to be major players in free agency this summer whether we have a ton of space or not.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I don't think we're going to be major players in free agency this summer whether we have a ton of space or not.

I don't know if we really have to be major players to get a better player than Dalembert. Regardless, there's more value to cap space than just signing a free agent, it helps a lot in trades as well.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

the best part about this is Donte and Omri get too see significant time every game from here on out if this goes down. Its the right move for a rebuilding team.

 

[BMiller52]

I hate this deal compared to the Okafor one and I don't even like Okafor that much. Nocioni is a good player, he hustles hard and he spreads the floor with his 3 point shooting. If we lose him we're depending entirely on youth and we'll start losing more games. He's a good defender too. Forget Boston in this trade, if anything just make it Kenny for Dalembert.

I don't see how we have a log jam either to tell you the truth. Cisco is out for atleast 4 months, and the break is on his shooting arm so he might not be able to shoot if he comes back this season. KMart's out for 2 months, and so it's pretty simple to me that the SF rotation is Noc/Casspi/Greene. But Greene has played some PF this year too, and to be honest I think he does better there, so I dunno.

 

[SCKingsfan]

It just seems like Nocioni has been the glue that's brought together the Kings during their little win streak. For that, it is hard to imagine letting him go right now. Now, when we start to go down to more elite teams because our interior defense is like water through a sieve, a deal like this will probably make more sense.

I'm trying to focus on the big picture, although it would feel hard to let Noc go given our recent and long-missed hardnose play and productive chemistry...

 

[AriesMar27]

i like this idea, shorter contract so he can be moved if this doesnt work this season, he'll be a expiring next season. its a rental at worse... much better than the okafor trade and his 5 yr deal... though okafor is a better player, but not so much better that we should have him for that long...

 

[Bricklayer]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but a 2 year deal means a trial run for the rest of this year, and a FAT expiring next year.

No actually that hasn't been mentioned, but it is a good point. Burn the KT ender this season, but get back an $11mil ender next season. Hmmm...wonder what we could do with that.

 

[VF21]

I hate this deal compared to the Okafor one and I don't even like Okafor that much. Nocioni is a good player, he hustles hard and he spreads the floor with his 3 point shooting. If we lose him we're depending entirely on youth and we'll start losing more games. He's a good defender too. Forget Boston in this trade, if anything just make it Kenny for Dalembert.

I don't see how we have a log jam either to tell you the truth. Cisco is out for atleast 4 months, and the break is on his shooting arm so he might not be able to shoot if he comes back this season. KMart's out for 2 months, and so it's pretty simple to me that the SF rotation is Noc/Casspi/Greene. But Greene has played some PF this year too, and to be honest I think he does better there, so I dunno.

I agree but I don't expect too much support from a lot of the more vocal members of the board.

The fan base is responding right now, when desperately needed, because of what we're seeing on the court. People are talking about the team and they're starting to buy tickets again.

If I'm the Maloofs, I'm not gonna fix a damned thing right now. Nocioni is a big part of the reason our current group of players is showing hustle and heart. He's a true competitor and he puts it all out there on the court every single night. Trading him away right now could easily put a major wrench in the team chemistry - and I don't think Dalembert is worth the risk.

Let things go they way they are just for a little while. See what develops. We're nowhere near the trade deadline. If teams decide to make moves to strengthen their rosters as they position themselves for the playoffs, I'd much rather we see what shakes out then.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I hate this deal compared to the Okafor one and I don't even like Okafor that much. Nocioni is a good player, he hustles hard and he spreads the floor with his 3 point shooting. If we lose him we're depending entirely on youth and we'll start losing more games. He's a good defender too. Forget Boston in this trade, if anything just make it Kenny for Dalembert.

I don't see how we have a log jam either to tell you the truth. Cisco is out for atleast 4 months, and the break is on his shooting arm so he might not be able to shoot if he comes back this season. KMart's out for 2 months, and so it's pretty simple to me that the SF rotation is Noc/Casspi/Greene. But Greene has played some PF this year too, and to be honest I think he does better there, so I dunno.

Omri and Donte will spread the floor too.I'll agree Noc has been the glue but, I think alot of stuff that Noc brought to the team, Omri can bring aswell. He has that toughness and similar style game Noc has only hes 10 years younger. This would be a very smart move for the development of Omri and Greene.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I'm not really making a judgment on this trade one way or the other, but winning a lot of games later > winning some games now.

 

[SCKingsfan]

The fan base is responding right now, when desperately needed, because of what we're seeing on the court. People are talking about the team and they're starting to buy tickets again...

....

Let things go they way they are just for a little while. See what develops. We're nowhere near the trade deadline. If teams decide to make moves to strengthen their rosters as they position themselves for the playoffs, I'd much rather we see what shakes out then.

Agreed 100%

 

[Trueblood]

Interesting about that 3.5M trade kicker. Anyone know how that works? Is the salary increase counted when matching salaries or just after the trade is complete?

I have to think that it's counted for matching purposes. When I did the numbers on this deal, I see that Philly is taking on too much salary and not sending out enough. I can't think of any trade exception that they have so in order to make this work, I have to think that Dalembert's extra money would have to count in order to match Philadelphia's end.

BTW, I didn't read the article and am assuming that the kicker belongs to Dalembert since I did the math.

 

[apollo916]

There has to be more for us out there. Sammy D is a bum.
Forget Giddens,

 

[NME]

So, in effect a year less than Noc's deal, but a year longer than KT's? If we're going this way, I'd prefer going all the way with a true teardown move for a useless player with an ending contract and a pick if possible, rather than a guy who may be of some use for a couple years but not long term.

 

[kingsnation]

I am totally with you on this. Chemistry is a fickle and elusive thing in this game. When you happen to stumble upon it I think it might be best to slowly back away. Do not touch it, do not blow on it, do not even spend much time wondering why it happened. Just enjoy it.

I agree with this. I honestly, for the first time in about 3 years, feel very very uneasy breaking apart this team right now. Their chemistry is building and developing very fast. And we know what chemistry can do for a team... That's almost ingredient number one in putting together a winning unit.

While I really want a real big, I'm cautious at jumping on this deal right now.

 

[apollo916]

No worries I googled the trade, doesn't look like this is going to happen!

 

[Bricklayer]

People get too attached to the now. Unless the now = championship, its always temporary and in flux.

Casspi has shown a lot in his brief time. This is no Donte Green from last year we'd be turning the position over to -- he has the potential to provide some of the same glue that Noc does, only a decade younger and $7mil cheaper. And Donte looks lie he flat out needs more time. If we had no players coming back off of injuries, Noc would STILL be in the way, although the kids would likely continue to get some minutes. But we have 36+min coming back in 6 weeks at OG, and assuming that Beno is not entirely benched that means no more Casspi minutes at that position.

That's before we even get to Udoka, who is a nothing player, but has been very gluey himself and would be out of the rotation when Kevin gets back.

 

[jaysoonii]

Dont agree with this trade at all. =[ boo.

 

[VF21]

People get too attached to the now. Unless the now = championship, its always temporary and in flux.

While that is, of course, one way to look at this it's not the only way...

The Maloofs have to put butts in the seats now. That's not esoteric or theoretical. It's a fact. Hence all the programs reaching out to the fan base.

At this "now" we've got a team that, as I mentioned above, people are actually stopping on the streets and talking about. And Andres Nocioni is a part of those conversations. It's the chemistry of the team we have "now" that's getting those wins, and it's the team we have "now" that's starting to have more chairs dressing up as actual fans than we would have expected. (Thanks to piksi for the metaphor.)

I truly do not see Petrie pulling the trigger on a deal like this unless he's thoroughly and completely convinced it won't destroy the fragile chemistry Westphal has put together. Doing so could cause irreparable harm.

There's no urgency to make these kinds of deals. KT's contract is still going to be valuable right up until the trade deadline. We can afford to wait.

 

[DocHolliday]

People get too attached to the now. Unless the now = championship, its always temporary and in flux.

Casspi has shown a lot in his brief time. This is no Donte Green from last year we'd be turning the position over to -- he has the potential to provide some of the same glue that Noc does, only a decade younger and $7mil cheaper. And Donte looks lie he flat out needs more time. If we had no players coming back off of injuries, Noc would STILL be in the way, although the kids would likely continue to get some minutes. But we have 36+min coming back in 6 weeks at OG, and assuming that Beno is not entirely benched that means no more Casspi minutes at that position.

That's before we even get to Udoka, who is a nothing player, but has been very gluey himself and would be out of the rotation when Kevin gets back.

My problem is Donte is a knuckle head. The sole reason that it's taken him so long to come along is because he's too worried about goofing off and filming shorts for Kings.com.

What happened the first time he tasted some success. He dunks and spins in circles as he's running back down the court instead of concentrating on getting his *** back on defense!

Then he starts to show boat and screws up!. Yes he's had a few exciting plays especially the inbounds alley-oop to JT which was amazing. He just needs to stop being a knuckle head. Everything can't be a joke.

 

[Merdiesel]

Why are we doing favors for Boston again?..
They give up 3 scrubs and get a solid starter in Nocioni?

I definitely like this more than the Okafor trade due to the length of contracts. Throw in a 1st rounder draft pick and I'm all for it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Doing so could cause irreparable harm.

Oh come on now. Cause irreparable harm to a young team by trading away the team's oldest two vets 9 games into a season, with all of 4 good games played? Hardly. Any chemistry is brand new, and while Noc has played a role as a veteran out there, the change in attitude has come from the very kids we are talking about squishing here. They are what's driving the work ethic. Not fits in and reinforces them, not the other way around.

 

[sidney]

I truly do not see Petrie pulling the trigger on a deal like this unless he's thoroughly and completely convinced it won't destroy the fragile chemistry Westphal has put together. Doing so could cause irreparable harm.

Interesting though that we're involved with two rumors within a few days for defensive minded big men. Seems like someone is interested in making a change...

 

[Henkel]

Hope this gets done.