Gavin: Petrie Is A King For Life As Far As Maloofs Are Concerned

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#1
Amick Story

Couple of big pieces of news this morning from Amick, with Gavin being very declarative about the status quo.

No timetable for a Petrie extension, no deadline for an arena deal, looks like I'll be happy for a while longer. Those of you who want the Kings to fire Petrie and relocate to Anaheim may commence grousing...
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
#2
Amick Story

Couple of big pieces of news this morning from Amick, with Gavin being very declarative about the status quo.

No timetable for a Petrie extension, no deadline for an arena deal, looks like I'll be happy for a while longer. Those of you who want the Kings to fire Petrie and relocate to Anaheim may commence grousing...
Nice to hear a vote of confidence from the Maloof's. Maybe now we can turn our attention to the season at hand. I'm sure there will be plenty to grouse about as it unfolds...:rolleyes:
 
#3
Great move by the Maloofs. Keep in mind that it was Petrie who put together the great teams of the late 90's and early part of this decade. The Maloofs just happened to buy in at the perfect time.
 
#4
Artest was a gift and it almost took houston to the finals. Brad/Salmons dump was another gift that made chicago look like they had a chance. I liked both moves, because the puzzle was falling apart with or without those players. But, I will not stand for a wasted draft. Douby, Hawes, Garcia are all players who were drafted too soon. Who the heck said yes to drafting a 160 6-3 SF in douby. Who gave Petrie the green light in drafting a 19 year old with a knee issue. Who ever thought that garcia would be as valuable as he actually is. This draft wasn't that much better. Evans A++. 2nd Rd., why didn't we get the star of a final four team in D. Blair. Or a manchild like Sam Young how about the Bobcats stealing that talent from Xavier? It bothers me deeply that Petrie has been dry since trading for bonzi wells. Petrie hasn't brought anything to the table for a long time. and i do not have any confidence in his ability to manage. He could scout, but he is the only GM in my book who still has a job, that rides the short bus to work. I see the logic in his moves, and it resemble a decade long game of chess. I project that if petrie is doing everything correctly by his books. we should have a championship by 2015 at the earliest. Who in their right mind plays for 2015. petrie is doing one thing that is interesting. he is going to make a splash in the 2011 FA class, and has enough to pick up a 2010er if he can't get a deal hammered out elsewhere. In any case, he shouldn't be allowed to use other people's money, for anything. Joe and Gavin needed help with this problem child a long time ago, and now, they HAVE to ride him out like a horrible stock.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#7
But, I will not stand for a wasted draft. Douby, Hawes, Garcia are all players who were drafted too soon.
...
Who ever thought that garcia would be as valuable as he actually is.
Wait, you're BLAMING Petrie for drafting a player who turned out to be good?

This speaks volumes.
 
#9
Wish I had a job where I could make bad decisions that set back my organization for the better park of a decade, and get promised a job for life.
 
#10
Artest was a gift and it almost took houston to the finals. Brad/Salmons dump was another gift that made chicago look like they had a chance. I liked both moves, because the puzzle was falling apart with or without those players. But, I will not stand for a wasted draft. Douby, Hawes, Garcia are all players who were drafted too soon. Who the heck said yes to drafting a 160 6-3 SF in douby. Who gave Petrie the green light in drafting a 19 year old with a knee issue. Who ever thought that garcia would be as valuable as he actually is. This draft wasn't that much better. Evans A++. 2nd Rd., why didn't we get the star of a final four team in D. Blair. Or a manchild like Sam Young how about the Bobcats stealing that talent from Xavier? It bothers me deeply that Petrie has been dry since trading for bonzi wells. Petrie hasn't brought anything to the table for a long time. and i do not have any confidence in his ability to manage. He could scout, but he is the only GM in my book who still has a job, that rides the short bus to work. I see the logic in his moves, and it resemble a decade long game of chess. I project that if petrie is doing everything correctly by his books. we should have a championship by 2015 at the earliest. Who in their right mind plays for 2015. petrie is doing one thing that is interesting. he is going to make a splash in the 2011 FA class, and has enough to pick up a 2010er if he can't get a deal hammered out elsewhere. In any case, he shouldn't be allowed to use other people's money, for anything. Joe and Gavin needed help with this problem child a long time ago, and now, they HAVE to ride him out like a horrible stock.
I agree with you on our 2nd and 3rd draft picks. I was also hoping Petrie would pick up the same two players you mentioned, Blair and Young. Im not really sure how one could reason that Brockman and Casspi are better than Blair and Young. I was a little peeved.

I think the fact that some may not like to hear is that the Kings were really good for longer than they should have been. Once Petrie built the nucleus of the team it was nothing but deft moves from him for many years. He brought a boatload of talent to Sacramento over the years. Once the nucleus fell apart and the window had closed he blew up the team. He probably waited a bit longer than he should have but not by much. Aside from 2 bad moves, drafting Douby and signing Beno, Petrie has been one of the best there is over the last 10 years.
 
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Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#12
Wish I had a job where I could make bad decisions that set back my organization for the better park of a decade, and get promised a job for life.
That's funny. I'm pretty glad I don't have a job where I can make good decisions that make my organization the best in the business, only to have the public call for my head after my key employee gets injured and is no longer able to do his job.
 
#13
Garcia worked out well enough. But Petrie is getting the greenlight from someone to draft these players, and it isn't the consensus. Consensus is needed when you dont have the first 6 picks of the draft. Hawes would be a great pick if it were 1997. a 19 year old 7ft center who can shoot....WOW in 1997.... that was rare. 2007 means hawes' game is like dirk's but slower and more mechanical. Every big man in the NBA has played against KG and Dirk and BIG Z and the C from Utah who won a championship in Detroit and Rasheed Wallace. Hawes and his game isn't new and it isn't special. So who gives Petrie these green lights. Hawes would be a sweet 17th pick, yes. But for the top 10 you need someone who does something special. Thompson actually looks like an NBA player, he rebounds very well. Garcia like to shoot and i can't blame him. Petrie likes to pull the trigger on players from non-major college conferences and thinks he did his job. the day petrie retires is the day the kings stop wasting 2nd round picks and 1/2 of their 1st round picks
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#16
That's funny. I'm pretty glad I don't have a job where I can make good decisions that make my organization the best in the business, only to have the public call for my head after my key employee gets injured and is no longer able to do his job.
Yep. I completely agree.

The nucleus never fell apart because of Petrie and poor decisions he made. It fell apart due to a freak injury to Webbers knee and old age kicking in as vlade, pollard, christie, barry, and bibby all passed their primes.
 
#17
In Petries defense, The Maloofs didnt make it easy on him.

Its hard to be in charge of something when your not really in charge.

What did we hear when Rick was fired? It was a Maloof move

What did we hear when Muss was hired? Maloof move

what did we hear when Theus was hired? Maloof move


You can blame Geoff for the roster, but the coaching decisions to this point have to fall at least partly on the Maloofs. And that stuff matters.
 
#18
And people should not ignore the fact that the Maloofs did not like paying the luxury tax for a couple of years. In 02/03 we had one of the biggest payrolls in the NBA.

After that year, GP was told he had to get the team below the luxury tax limit. It can't be easy to keep a team competitive while trying to reduce payroll year after year. The team finally got under the limit with the Skinner trade (I think. It was near to the end of the season).
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#19
That was 7 years ago!
It happened in the '03 playoffs, which means there have been 6 intervening seasons, not 7. But we traded Webber away in Feb. 2005, which means that there have only been 4 seasons and change since we acknowledged that Webb's knee was done.

Since then we've been faced with:

2 non-lotto picks, a #10 pick, a #12 pick, and a #4 pick who hasn't had a chance to play yet - little opportunity to draft a truly impact player

A roster full of aging veterans who were past their prime but had large, long contracts - little opportunity to get an impact player via trade with our marginal trade assets...and we still managed to land one in Artest.

Owners who were not willing to pay luxury tax AND a small-market franchise - little opportunity to get an impact player in free agency

You know, it's hard for me to see a formula to instantaneously turn that around. Truth be told, outside of drafting (4 out of the last 5 drafts got us a solid first rounder, Evans TBD) we haven't needed Petrie since 2004. Any old executive could have torn down the roster. Some might even have done it a bit quicker (so that we hit bottom 1, maybe two years before we did). But now we're on our way up...high draft picks, cap room next year, roster full of young players. Now is when we need him. The turnaround starts this year. It's going to take a while, but it starts now, and I'm glad he's at the helm.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#20
Garcia worked out well enough. But Petrie is getting the greenlight from someone to draft these players, and it isn't the consensus. Consensus is needed when you dont have the first 6 picks of the draft. Hawes would be a great pick if it were 1997. a 19 year old 7ft center who can shoot....WOW in 1997.... that was rare. 2007 means hawes' game is like dirk's but slower and more mechanical. Every big man in the NBA has played against KG and Dirk and BIG Z and the C from Utah who won a championship in Detroit and Rasheed Wallace. Hawes and his game isn't new and it isn't special. So who gives Petrie these green lights. Hawes would be a sweet 17th pick, yes. But for the top 10 you need someone who does something special. Thompson actually looks like an NBA player, he rebounds very well. Garcia like to shoot and i can't blame him. Petrie likes to pull the trigger on players from non-major college conferences and thinks he did his job. the day petrie retires is the day the kings stop wasting 2nd round picks and 1/2 of their 1st round picks
Petrie has made one bad pick in his tenure in sacramento and that was Douby. If there is one area that few criticize Petrie, its his drafting of players. Obviously you never saw Hawes play in college or you would know that he seldom shot three pointers and played mostly in the post. He also was one of the best passing big men in college that year. He has had no problems with his knee's since being drafted. Garcia has turned out to be a good pick considering where he was drafted. Martin looks like a steal from where he was drafted. I'm not sure what your reference to having a green light is. He's the Fricking GM. He's the one that decides who we draft, and his record has been stellar except for Douby. This is the guy that plucked Peja and Hedo out of the european leagues when no one had even heard of them.

If you want to argue about some of his free agent signings, then thats another story.

By the way. Some were upset that we ended up with Brockman instead of Pendegraph. I'm not!!! I wasn't that thrilled with Pendegraph in college. I watched him play a lot. He was very inconsistant and just disappeared in games. Games that were important to win. In a Brockman/Pendegraph matchup, I would put my money on Brockman. He's way way way way tougher than Pendegraph and plays with intensity every night.. As an added note, I was a big Sam Young fan. I wanted either him or Casspi with our second first round pick. I had Young ahead of Casspi because I was able to see him play more, but I wasn't that upset with the Casspi pick.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#21
Plus they weren't too bad when Webb missed most of the year. It isn't all on webb going down.
No! It was on Webb coming back and screwing up the chemistry of the team when he just wasn't ready. I'm not blaming Webb here. I can't blame any player for wanting to play. I can blame the coach for playing him when he shouldn't have.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#22
Garcia worked out well enough. But Petrie is getting the greenlight from someone to draft these players, and it isn't the consensus. Consensus is needed when you dont have the first 6 picks of the draft.
Petrie IS the greenlight, that's his job. By "consensus", do you mean you'd prefer to have members of the media make our draft picks?

Petrie likes to pull the trigger on players from non-major college conferences and thinks he did his job. the day petrie retires is the day the kings stop wasting 2nd round picks and 1/2 of their 1st round picks
Petrie has used first rounders on players from Arkansas, Florida, Alabama, Louisville, Washington, and Memphis - these seem like pretty major schools to me. Then, we've had three international first rounders. That leaves Brian Grant (Xavier, one of the best players in his draft), Kevin Martin (Western Carolina, 'nuff said) and Jason Thompson (Rider) to stand against Tariq Abdul-Wahad (San Jose St.) and Quincy Douby (Rutgers).

So, two players from non-major conferences that didn't work out from a total of 14 picks? Wow, that's a disturbing trend.

Anyway, since Petrie has apparently wasted half of his first round picks, I ask you to name which ones. I'll give you Abdul-Wahad and Douby. You need to come up with 5 more from the following list. Which five of these players were "wastes" of a draft pick?
Tyreke Evans
Omri Casspi
Jason Thompson
Spencer Hawes
Francisco Garcia
Kevin Martin
Gerald Wallace
Hedo Turkoglu
Jason Williams
Peja Stojakovic
Corliss Williamson
Brian Grant
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#23
In reality, the number of gm's in the nba which have a better track record than petrie I can count on one hand. You also can't deny the fact there is a little luck involved in being an elite gm. Petrie put together a kings team that was capable of winning a title earlier this decade.

We never won the title, but I don't blame petrie for that. When you look at the teams which have won championships in the past 10-15 yrs, there was some luck involved. Spurs get the #1 and duncan because robinson was injured for the year and they were horrible. Lakers take agamble on kobe, who in 96 was a shell of the player he is today(numerous team passed on him). Miami gets Wade in the draft, gets Shaq who forced his way out of LA, and still wouldn't win the championship if Dallas doesn't completely choke away a 2-0 lead. The exception is detroit of course, but as of late J Dumars hasn't made any moves that I like.

Rebuilding takes time, we have to be patient. Petrie has put together a talented youn nucleus through the draft that will grow together over the next few years. I would compare the kings' situation to portlands a few years ago, which I don't mind at all.
 
#25
Omri Casspi
Spencer Hawes

Kevin Martin ---im not sure
Gerald Wallace
Hedo Turkoglu

Peja Stojakovic
Corliss Williamson ---up there
Omri.....ill let you agree with that later. Hawes and his jury are still out. Kevin just isn't going to be more. Gerald was given away(wasted). Hedo was traded for Brad miller(enough said), wasted. Peja was turned into ron artest, which was awesome, then turned into Donte Green(wasted).Corliss was good as a sixth man, but not on a team that doesn't have elite level talent to open up his game for him.
 
#27
Omri.....ill let you agree with that later. Hawes and his jury are still out. Kevin just isn't going to be more. Gerald was given away(wasted). Hedo was traded for Brad miller(enough said), wasted. Peja was turned into ron artest, which was awesome, then turned into Donte Green(wasted).Corliss was good as a sixth man, but not on a team that doesn't have elite level talent to open up his game for him.
WOW!!! WOW!!! Easy tiger!

Kevin Martin is a FANTASTIC value for pick 23 or what ever it was. A GREAT pick and there wouldn't be a GM in the league that wouldn't like that pick up on their resume.

And Brad Miller was an all-star big man when Petrie traded for him. Everyone was saying how good a deal that was for us.

If you are going to look at something selectivly then might has well not look at it at all.
 
#28
No! It was on Webb coming back and screwing up the chemistry of the team when he just wasn't ready. I'm not blaming Webb here. I can't blame any player for wanting to play. I can blame the coach for playing him when he shouldn't have.
And what I always have to remind people is that Brad Miller broke his ankle or whatever in the all star game and was out 2 months. Webb came back as Brad went down so the point was really moot. Otherwise it was massenburg, funderburke or songaila starting. Much of the webb destroying etc was by the bee reporter who has a crush on Peja and Vlade and was over played.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#29
Aside from 2 bad moves, drafting Douby and signing Beno, Petrie has been one of the best there is over the last 10 years.
:eek:

He has been one of the ten worst for the last 5.

Easily.

Basically this is what Geoff Petrie has done well in this decade: drafted. You can't take that away from him. He drafts well. Not perfectly, and with quirks. But well overall (one reason I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on the Tyreke thing until we see how that works out). If he did not draft well...he might quite literally have the worst record of any GM in the entire league over the past 6-8 years. Almost every FA he has signed has become an anvil. Wiht help from meddlesome owners, th coaches have bombed. He has had trades ranging from ineffective shrugs with little to show for it to flat out disasters. End result? Every player worth a damn on our current roster is one of our draft picks. Five years of them stacked up. Nothing else has worked, and the rebuild was delayed ridiculously until things fell apart on their own (including the fanbase).

I can even define the exact date when Geoff got stupid: May 9, 2003.
In case that date that lives in infamy needs a visual reminder:


And it wasn't his star player going down. That's consistently thrown out as an excuse, but star players going down don't in and of themselves result in the complete collapse we have seen over the last 5-6 years, setting a record for seasons consecutively getting worse, going from best record in the NBA to worst, from longest sell out streak, to worst attendance etc. etc. What it was was the massive financial retrenching by the Maloofs, who suddenly realized that spending money on support players would never bring them a title if they lost their star, and a poisined atmosphere amongst the fans and media which the owners also bought into, turning them against their own pillars of the franchise. And if that doesn't sound like it was Geoff's fault, its because its not. But what it IS, is an indication of what a perfect world he inhabited, what an advanatge he had over the league's other GMs, in the years before the fall. The Maloofs came in enthusiastic, willing to spend anything, in the belief that doing so would result in title. Geoff had an edge only 1 or 2 other GMs in the entire league had during his best years. Stripped of that advantage in subsequent years, and even saddled with meddlesome amateur owners, he has been anything but special. In fact, he's sucked. And yet one way or the other, the rebuild is upon us, and there is hope. But that's because of the structure of the league -- the structure of the draft that so many aorund here kicked and screamed so hard against for so long. Its designed to help the worst teams eventually rebound. EVERYBODY eventually rebounds if they can draft decently. Except the Clippers. But its not ebcause we've done anything but the bare minimum, at the very last second when our hand was absolutely forced, to help the process.

P.S. Quick stat BTW: Geoff Petrie GM record with Coach Adelman: 13 winning seasons, 0 losing seasons. Geoff Petrie GM record with all other coaches: 0 winning seasons, 7 losing seasons. Will be 0-8 after this year.
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
#30
Omri.....ill let you agree with that later. Hawes and his jury are still out. Kevin just isn't going to be more. Gerald was given away(wasted). Hedo was traded for Brad miller(enough said), wasted. Peja was turned into ron artest, which was awesome, then turned into Donte Green(wasted).Corliss was good as a sixth man, but not on a team that doesn't have elite level talent to open up his game for him.
I don't think the debate was about what happened to the picks after they were picked. Its about whether they were good picks or not. Your mixing apples and oranges.