Corliss was a great low post scorer in college. In a way, its a shame he was drafted by the Kings who immediatly tried to turn him into a SF. Tough transition for a guy thats maybe 6'7" and has played center his entire college career. We went away from all of his strengths and made him play to his weaknesses.
and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
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Actually Corliss was very lucky -- he would have been out of the league in 4 years if he had stuck to his college ways and tried to play stubby power ball agianst NBA big men. That was why I assumed that he would be a bust when we drafted him. Never thought he had it in him to make the move to freaky SF. But he did, and he carved out a solid career with it.
It's hardly even a discussion worth having. Do you honestly think Blair could come into the NBA and have enough quickness to be a passable NBA small forward? Blair's tough, he's strong, but he's nowhere near as quick and athletic as Corliss was, not to mention the fact that Corliss was one of the most dominant offensive players in college basketball of his era. They're very different players.
And you're still not addressing the fact that there's barely a handful of 6'7" power forwards who have ever amounted to anything in the NBA, and Corliss didn't even amount to anything as a power forward and had to learn a completely new position. The ones that have made an impact were explosive jumpers who played above the rim (even Kenny in his younger days), and Blair isn't even close to that kind of an athlete.
And you're still not addressing the fact that there's barely a handful of 6'7" power forwards who have ever amounted to anything in the NBA, and Corliss didn't even amount to anything as a power forward and had to learn a completely new position. The ones that have made an impact were explosive jumpers who played above the rim (even Kenny in his younger days), and Blair isn't even close to that kind of an athlete.
I don't see Blair as a 3. I see him as a 4. And at 4 I see him as more talented than Corliss. You're not addressing Corliss's woeful rebounding. Of course, he had to become a 3. How in the world can I guy who gets 4 rebs a game be a 4? (Oops, I forgot Miki). Guys who are 6'7" and lead the NCAAs in rebounding tend to be above average athletes. Isn't Blair the #1 college rebounder? (Last time I checked he was). And his ability to score around the basket is uncanny for a 6'7" guy. By the way, Millsap is no super-stud 6"10" guy, and he's a pretty nice player. If you really want to go back in the day, just check your Washington Bullets history. There was a pretty good center who was 6'7" and he probably couldn't get off the floor more than Blair.
Uh, first off, Blair's not leading college basketball in rebounding, Blake Griffin is. But Millsap completely proves my point, namely that if you're going to be an undersized power forward in the NBA you'd better be extremely athletic. Blair is very strong. He's not, however, a great run/jump athlete.
And yeah, great, Wes Unseld was good 30 years ago. Guess what, the game's more athletic now.
And yeah, great, Wes Unseld was good 30 years ago. Guess what, the game's more athletic now.
Oh yeah, he's only 4th in rebounding in the NCAA, and the 2nd and 3rd are from freaking Santa Clara and Morehead State.
What a quibbler. A 6'7" guy who for all intent and purposes is the 2nd best rebounder in the country IS an excellent athlete in my book. How do you think he gets those rebs - climbs a ladder? Not only is he strong, but he's a very quick jumper. And his quickness is good enough to gets rebs others can't. Millsap doesn't prove your point because Millsap is not a great athlete. He's not a great jumper, he's not super quick, he's not a great driver of the ball, the guy is a worker more than anything else, a solid double double guy, and you're telling me that Blair can't do that in the NBA? Unbelievable.
What a quibbler. A 6'7" guy who for all intent and purposes is the 2nd best rebounder in the country IS an excellent athlete in my book. How do you think he gets those rebs - climbs a ladder? Not only is he strong, but he's a very quick jumper. And his quickness is good enough to gets rebs others can't. Millsap doesn't prove your point because Millsap is not a great athlete. He's not a great jumper, he's not super quick, he's not a great driver of the ball, the guy is a worker more than anything else, a solid double double guy, and you're telling me that Blair can't do that in the NBA? Unbelievable.
Oh yeah, he's only 4th in rebounding in the NCAA, and the 2nd and 3rd are from freaking Santa Clara and Morehead State. What a quibbler. A 6'7" guy who for all intent and purposes is the 2nd best rebounder in the country IS an excellent athlete in my book. How do you think he gets those rebs - climbs a ladder? Not only is he strong, but he's a very quick jumper. And his quickness is good enough to gets rebs others can't. Millsap doesn't prove your point because Millsap is not a great athlete. He's not a great jumper, he's not super quick, he's not a great driver of the ball, the guy is a worker more than anything else, a solid double double guy, and you're telling me that Blair can't do that in the NBA? Unbelievable.
What a quibbler. A 6'7" guy who for all intent and purposes is the 2nd best rebounder in the country IS an excellent athlete in my book. How do you think he gets those rebs - climbs a ladder? Not only is he strong, but he's a very quick jumper. And his quickness is good enough to gets rebs others can't. Millsap doesn't prove your point because Millsap is not a great athlete. He's not a great jumper, he's not super quick, he's not a great driver of the ball, the guy is a worker more than anything else, a solid double double guy, and you're telling me that Blair can't do that in the NBA? Unbelievable.
Millsap is at least an inch taller and for his size, his vertical of 33" is pretty good. For perspective, that's the same as Carmelo. He's a very good athlete relative to his size. I don't think Blair can match Millsap's athleticism, but I recognize that's just eyeballing at this point and it's subjective.
More importantly I don't know why you're so wedded to this guy and why in the world you're sold on a 6'7" power forward right after the Kenny Thomas era, but more power to you.
Yeah, Blair is putting up some good numbers. So did DJ White, Michael Wright, Kevin Pittsnogle, Marcus Fizer, Robert Dozier, and a thousand other undersized 6'7" PFs. Even if they get to the NBA, even the best and most athletic 6'7" power forwards hardly make an impact and become more than defensive-liability backups. I don't see how Blair would be any different.
Yeah, the college game is so much different than the NBA. You can get away with having a 6'7" guy as your tallest on the court in college basketball, but in the NBA Blair would be playing against either players much faster than him or players much taller than him. On defense these players will just run right by him or shoot right over him.
I'm really starting to like the idea of having Blake Griffin on the Kings. I know he doesn't have a consistent jump shot or steller defense but those can be developed. But what he does have as of right now is unbelievable athleticism which allows him to get easy points in a up and down style play and rebound the ball in a very high rate. I also think his style of play would light a spark on this team but thats just my opinion.
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Ya, I think Griffin seems to be the player with the best worst case scenario i guess you could say. I want to see what his height REALLY is, but even if hes 6'8''-6'9'' i woudlnt mind seeing him in a rotation with JT and Hawes. That would be a nice young core of guys down low. I still think if we get shafted and get a pick around 5, or we trade the pick (griffin to OKC or something), we still need to strongly consider teague. I really really have a feeling that dude is going to blossom into something special.
I really worry about Griffin's height. One thing is that JT really isn't that great a leaper. And, Hawes isn't that great either, but the Kings use Hawes for the tip offs, so I got to believe that he out jumps JT even though he's only an inch taller. Maybe I'm wrong, but I could never find JT's predraft measurements anywhere, so that's all I've got to go by. That and watching rebound, and he doesn't really get high. So, if Griffin is undersized or can't jump any higher than JT & Hawes, we're never going to be a great rebounding team with the 3 of them.
Well, great leaper or not JT is a pretty nice rebounder, and I think Griffin probably will be at least a passable one. He's a good athelete and very active.
What JT is though is "short", and by that I don't mean his height, but rather his reach. He is not a very long player, and that's one of the reasons he is not a very good shotblocker. No long arm of the law. And Griffin is similar -- may be smallish anyway, and is certianly "shortish" (as in not long or effective on defense).
And so JT Griffin and Spencer would be a terrible defensive frontcourt because of it. The appropriate third big behind those two guys is a rebounder/shotblocker, same way we needed a Pollard back in the day behind Webb and Vlade. It could be Thabeet, Chandler, whoever, but that's the balancer to make the frontcourt complete, and that's not Griffin (note obviously if Griffin pans out in the NBA we might be better off with Grffin/Spencer/shotblocker, rather than JT/Spencer/shotblocker, but the point would be to avoid the all offense no defense crew up front).
Thing is Griffin looks strong, but I'm not sure if he really is truly powerful. The few times I've seen him go against real power, he has been noticeably cowed. He's strong enough to play in the NBA for sure, and those David Lee comparions have been apt, but Kevin Love is something else altogether. They need to give that guy some Barry Bonds tests because its just freakish. He can't jump over a penny, yet he rebounds like Dwight Howard (per minute its not far off) because once he touches the ball its his unless you want to lose an arm.
Okay what might be a silly question - Is Petrie clearing salary room to possibly buy out Rubio's contract? Just a thought...feel free to shoot it down with no mercy whatsoever.
Okay what might be a silly question - Is Petrie clearing salary room to possibly buy out Rubio's contract? Just a thought...feel free to shoot it down with no mercy whatsoever.
To turn down Blake Griffin this season would be pretty awful. I think the gap between him and Rubio is pretty large. It would suck for Blake to play similar position to the guys we've drafted the last 2 years but it would be really hard to pass on by far the BPA. I'd be more happy to ship JT or SH and Nocioni than to ship Blake who I feel will be a better pro than either of the two. And then in FA or through trades or through the following draft start looking for a shot blocker. Rubio does fit a bigger need but he's a huge IF in comparison to Blake. Blake I believe will be able to contribute from day 1 while Rubio is a huge boom or bust guy who we might have to wait a while to see how really good he is.
If we have Martin + Blake Griffin as our core that would give us an extremely good 1-2 punch and we can build around that. I'm not sure building around a 1-2 punch of Rubio-Martin will do but I guess it can work as well if JT and SH keep progressing and become atleast solid starting players in the NBA.
If we have Martin + Blake Griffin as our core that would give us an extremely good 1-2 punch and we can build around that. I'm not sure building around a 1-2 punch of Rubio-Martin will do but I guess it can work as well if JT and SH keep progressing and become atleast solid starting players in the NBA.
Okay what might be a silly question - Is Petrie clearing salary room to possibly buy out Rubio's contract? Just a thought...feel free to shoot it down with no mercy whatsoever.
We've been discussing here this Griffin height question for months along with lots of others in the basketball world. I've heard Jerry Reynolds repeatedly call him 6'10" as if it's guaranteed. Maybe it should be a poll. I'll lay you some percentage odds on where he "stands" in shoes. I think I said earlier IMO best Blake might measure is 6'8.50" - which would make him around 6'7" in bare feet. With his overall talent he could some day be one helluva Small Forward at NBA level.
6'10" - 0%
6'9" - 20%
6'8" - 60%
6'7" - 20%
6'10" - 0%
6'9" - 20%
6'8" - 60%
6'7" - 20%