and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
- Start date
I hate to rehash things, but DeAndre Jordan could have came in and played the defensive role everyone wants at center pretty well, and we might have been able to get him for pennies on the dollar at draft day. One thing I like about Jordan is that he's HARD as hell to push around. The kid is real strong, and bullies his way in to get rebounds.
In game which he has played 25+ minutes ;
11.0ppg 11.6rpg 2.9bpg
Not bad for a second rounder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGpEZ5T7Pow&NR=1
In game which he has played 25+ minutes ;
11.0ppg 11.6rpg 2.9bpg
Not bad for a second rounder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGpEZ5T7Pow&NR=1
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I think it would be really risky to trade a relative sure thing for someone who's somewhat of an enigma. If the difference were huge between Griffin and Thompson to the point where it's a no brainer I'd say yeah, sure, draft Griffin and consider opening up a spot for him. But while I like Griffin's athleticism and the way he attacks the rim, unless he surprises me with his height in the measurements, I really don't think his ceiling is that spectacular.
I don't think Thompson is the next Chris Webber, but he's at least projecting to be a really good 6'11" strong rebounding power forward with some skills inside and out.
Griffin on the other hand.... I'm still not convinced he's going to be Kenyon Martin without the defense or anything significantly more than David Lee. He's got the potential, but it's going to require him to seriously develop his offensive skills and I just don't know about his coordination.
This is perhaps one of the worst years for college bigs I can ever remember. There are only two quality seven foot center in college right now projected to go in the first round, Thabeet and Mullens, and Mullens is a total work in progress. Not to mention that there are hardly any other power forwards projected in the first round. To think that Stanford just last year had two quality centers on the SAME TEAM, and it goes to show how weak college bigs are right now.
All of this is to say that I think Griffin is benefitting a great deal from a lack of real competition. He's just not facing anyone who is close to his size and strength, but he's going to have a major challenge when he reaches the NBA. He hasn't developed his offensive skills, he is not a shotblocker at all, and I don't know that he's tall enough to have a commensurate impact in the NBA. When you compare him to someone like Amare, he's just not built like that, and I don't think he's as explosive, and Amare still can do things like put the ball on the floor and hit outside jumpers.
Thompson has his limitations, but at least he's 6'11", and he looks really promising. I doubt personally he'll be a superstar or even a star, but it's not hard to see him holding down the starting PF on a good team for many years.
So my feeling remains: if we get the #1, either Petrie should just draft who he likes, even if that's Griffin, or trade down. But I don't think it's a good idea trade a young promising player for an unknown draft pick.
I don't think Thompson is the next Chris Webber, but he's at least projecting to be a really good 6'11" strong rebounding power forward with some skills inside and out.
Griffin on the other hand.... I'm still not convinced he's going to be Kenyon Martin without the defense or anything significantly more than David Lee. He's got the potential, but it's going to require him to seriously develop his offensive skills and I just don't know about his coordination.
This is perhaps one of the worst years for college bigs I can ever remember. There are only two quality seven foot center in college right now projected to go in the first round, Thabeet and Mullens, and Mullens is a total work in progress. Not to mention that there are hardly any other power forwards projected in the first round. To think that Stanford just last year had two quality centers on the SAME TEAM, and it goes to show how weak college bigs are right now.
All of this is to say that I think Griffin is benefitting a great deal from a lack of real competition. He's just not facing anyone who is close to his size and strength, but he's going to have a major challenge when he reaches the NBA. He hasn't developed his offensive skills, he is not a shotblocker at all, and I don't know that he's tall enough to have a commensurate impact in the NBA. When you compare him to someone like Amare, he's just not built like that, and I don't think he's as explosive, and Amare still can do things like put the ball on the floor and hit outside jumpers.
Thompson has his limitations, but at least he's 6'11", and he looks really promising. I doubt personally he'll be a superstar or even a star, but it's not hard to see him holding down the starting PF on a good team for many years.
So my feeling remains: if we get the #1, either Petrie should just draft who he likes, even if that's Griffin, or trade down. But I don't think it's a good idea trade a young promising player for an unknown draft pick.
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Whether Griffin is 6'8" or 6'10", he has definitely got hops. The Height he can get above the rim is so much above JT's ability, I've got to believe Griffin will be a superior rebounder and certainly better than JT. I may be wrong but at least for next year, Griffin would make JT a backup, and considering the needs of this team, JT would be much more valuable traded for a starting PG than as a backup.
Certainly, trading JT for a draft choice, especially one that isn't a lock isn't the safest gamble. Maybe used as part of a sign & trade for a known commodity would have been a safer suggestion. But, what I really was trying to do was offer an alternative to trading down.
Certainly, trading JT for a draft choice, especially one that isn't a lock isn't the safest gamble. Maybe used as part of a sign & trade for a known commodity would have been a safer suggestion. But, what I really was trying to do was offer an alternative to trading down.
Yeah, I agree with your second paragraph. The thing is, you don't trade young promising players for unknowns. I'd happily trade JT for someone like Amare, where you know what you're getting. There's no way I'd trade JT for the uncertainty of a draft pick.
Even if Petrie thinks Griffin is better than JT and we get the top choice... fine. I defer to that. I'll root for Griffin to improve his skills.
But if you then trade JT, you trade him for a sure thing, not another draft pick.
Even if Petrie thinks Griffin is better than JT and we get the top choice... fine. I defer to that. I'll root for Griffin to improve his skills.
But if you then trade JT, you trade him for a sure thing, not another draft pick.
Exactly. No matter who you draft, you don't trade Thompson unless it's for a sure thing. The Kings lucked out nabbing Thompson at #12. 2008 was indeed a very deep class, and with Jason being from a small school, I can understand how many teams passed on him. Thing is, he shown that he can come into an NBA environment and produce. He'll never be 'the man' on a championship squad, but he brings size and toughness into a league that, on the whole, is lacking it as of late. Combine that with his speed and good character, and he'll be a very desirable commodity in a few years...one that I'd like to hang on to.
Playing the hypothetical game, say we get the #1 overall and draft Griffin. Good for us. Plug him into the PF slot and make him the starter next to Hawes. JT has a solid all around game, combined with the size and quickness to play 5,4, and conditional minutes at the 3. To me, that makes him a great bench player. Add that to the fact that his ability to produce doesn't seem to be rooted on whether he starts or not, and he becomes an idea super-bench guy. Griffin/Hawes/Thompson is a big-man rotation that many teams would drool over. IF, and it's a big if, you are going to trade Jason, it had better be for a rising star at PG or a can't miss superstar. Given that PG is even harder to fill than PF, I don't see any teams making that deal.
Playing the hypothetical game, say we get the #1 overall and draft Griffin. Good for us. Plug him into the PF slot and make him the starter next to Hawes. JT has a solid all around game, combined with the size and quickness to play 5,4, and conditional minutes at the 3. To me, that makes him a great bench player. Add that to the fact that his ability to produce doesn't seem to be rooted on whether he starts or not, and he becomes an idea super-bench guy. Griffin/Hawes/Thompson is a big-man rotation that many teams would drool over. IF, and it's a big if, you are going to trade Jason, it had better be for a rising star at PG or a can't miss superstar. Given that PG is even harder to fill than PF, I don't see any teams making that deal.
Every time I think of legit debate about drafting a PF like Griffin when you already have solid starting PF like JT, I hark back to when our superstar PF when down with a blown out knee in the playoffs and we know what happened from then on. Hedo played valiantly coming into starting line up against Dallas, but it was not enough. Maybe having Griffin on the team isn't a bad option knowing bad memory.
Oklahoma/Texas-
Catching up with this one from Saturday. Griffin opened by putting the ball on the floor and charging straight into a help defender for the offensive foul. Did a reasonable job holding his spot defensively in the post against Pittman, who is a big, big dude, but used his hands way too much, grabbing and pulling Pittman, and was lucky he wasn't getting called for it. That wouldn't fly in the NBA (just ask Jason Thompson). Ran the floor pretty well for a goaltended layup. Bricked a pullup badly, and got caught under the rim and clanked it off the bottom. Tried to take the ball to Pittman wtih a spin and jump hook and got it sent right back in his face. Missed another jump hook from 7 feet. Then came out on the injury, which was strange because Pittman just looked like he barely grazed Griffins' face, but Grififn was definitely concussed and looked out of it afterwards.
Texas did a good job of double-teaming him quickly, but when he did try and make offense happen it looked ugly. His help defense was terrible, although he was avoiding foul trouble and didn't try and block anything. Texas scored in the paint at will, even when OK was playing a zone. People attributed this loss to Griffin's injury, but Oklahoma was really struggling even before he went down.
Catching up with this one from Saturday. Griffin opened by putting the ball on the floor and charging straight into a help defender for the offensive foul. Did a reasonable job holding his spot defensively in the post against Pittman, who is a big, big dude, but used his hands way too much, grabbing and pulling Pittman, and was lucky he wasn't getting called for it. That wouldn't fly in the NBA (just ask Jason Thompson). Ran the floor pretty well for a goaltended layup. Bricked a pullup badly, and got caught under the rim and clanked it off the bottom. Tried to take the ball to Pittman wtih a spin and jump hook and got it sent right back in his face. Missed another jump hook from 7 feet. Then came out on the injury, which was strange because Pittman just looked like he barely grazed Griffins' face, but Grififn was definitely concussed and looked out of it afterwards.
Texas did a good job of double-teaming him quickly, but when he did try and make offense happen it looked ugly. His help defense was terrible, although he was avoiding foul trouble and didn't try and block anything. Texas scored in the paint at will, even when OK was playing a zone. People attributed this loss to Griffin's injury, but Oklahoma was really struggling even before he went down.
Louisville/Georgetown-
Terrence Williams - effective as a glue guy and really running the action early, making things happen rebounding and passing. I'd really like to see Louisville play some man D for once because I have no idea how good (or not good) he is as a man defender. He gets into passing lanes, but he plays on the block in the zone and is hardly ever guarding guys out on the perimeter. Had a seriously spectacular double-clutch dunk on a break. Overall, I like Williams. I think. He has a tendency to be passive/too unselfish, which is why it took me a really long time to come around to him, but provided you have a good scorer on the floor and provided he does play good man D, I think he can be effective as a glue guy. He seems like a great guy and teammate. He definitely has the size and athleticism to be an NBA SG, I just don't know that he's ever going to be someone you can count on for offense -- he can't shoot consistently and he only hits 59% of his free throws. Because of his offensive limitations I like him wayyyyy more with the 2nd round pick than Houston's pick. Finished with 10/12/7
Earl Clark - now with shooting!! For one night Clark discovered the broad side of the barn and hit some outside shots. Wow. I've seen him a lot and I'd never seen him hit anything consistently until tonight. Still had some fugly shots in his midrange game, but hit the open stuff. Played some tough D on Summers and really bothered him with his length. If he could shoot consistently he'd be a much more intriguing prospect, but given our incredible SF logjam I'm not going to bother thinking too much about him.
Greg Monroe -- acting as a high post facilitator out of the zone and generally not doing much that could really help punish Louisville for their lack of size. Had a pretty nice drive down the lane for a flying dunk and another nice running dunk off of a fast break, but not really able to do much otherwise. He gets a lot of steals with his quick hands, but not intimidating anyone inside. Only 5 rebounds, and never really goes after anything. I think he might be more athletic than I initially thought, but you very rarely see him use it unless he's on the run and there's no one between him and the hoop. In other words, he can jump when he has a head of steam, but he's not quick off his feet.
DeJuan Summers -- not sure what in the heck has happened to this guy, but he's completely disappeared. You might see his face on a milk carton.
It's hard to believe that Georgetown could miss the NCAA tournament with as much talent as they have. Don't know what the deal is, but it just doesn't come together. Too soft, too passive, can't play D.
Terrence Williams - effective as a glue guy and really running the action early, making things happen rebounding and passing. I'd really like to see Louisville play some man D for once because I have no idea how good (or not good) he is as a man defender. He gets into passing lanes, but he plays on the block in the zone and is hardly ever guarding guys out on the perimeter. Had a seriously spectacular double-clutch dunk on a break. Overall, I like Williams. I think. He has a tendency to be passive/too unselfish, which is why it took me a really long time to come around to him, but provided you have a good scorer on the floor and provided he does play good man D, I think he can be effective as a glue guy. He seems like a great guy and teammate. He definitely has the size and athleticism to be an NBA SG, I just don't know that he's ever going to be someone you can count on for offense -- he can't shoot consistently and he only hits 59% of his free throws. Because of his offensive limitations I like him wayyyyy more with the 2nd round pick than Houston's pick. Finished with 10/12/7
Earl Clark - now with shooting!! For one night Clark discovered the broad side of the barn and hit some outside shots. Wow. I've seen him a lot and I'd never seen him hit anything consistently until tonight. Still had some fugly shots in his midrange game, but hit the open stuff. Played some tough D on Summers and really bothered him with his length. If he could shoot consistently he'd be a much more intriguing prospect, but given our incredible SF logjam I'm not going to bother thinking too much about him.
Greg Monroe -- acting as a high post facilitator out of the zone and generally not doing much that could really help punish Louisville for their lack of size. Had a pretty nice drive down the lane for a flying dunk and another nice running dunk off of a fast break, but not really able to do much otherwise. He gets a lot of steals with his quick hands, but not intimidating anyone inside. Only 5 rebounds, and never really goes after anything. I think he might be more athletic than I initially thought, but you very rarely see him use it unless he's on the run and there's no one between him and the hoop. In other words, he can jump when he has a head of steam, but he's not quick off his feet.
DeJuan Summers -- not sure what in the heck has happened to this guy, but he's completely disappeared. You might see his face on a milk carton.
It's hard to believe that Georgetown could miss the NCAA tournament with as much talent as they have. Don't know what the deal is, but it just doesn't come together. Too soft, too passive, can't play D.
Ive seen GTown about 6 times this year, and I want no part of anyone on that team. At least not over some of the other guys that should be there around our two first rounders.
Gerald Henderson is turning himself into a complete player. Not saying we should draft him, but I can see him having a boarderline all-star career in the NBA.
Im still a big fan of Curry, even though he stuggled in his first game back from the ankle injury the other day. I dont think he gets enough credit for his PG skills. Of all the tweener guard/ PG wannabies, He has the best pg skills...
Current Favs:
Griffin
Rubio
Thabeet
Curry
Teague
Jennings
Gerald Henderson is turning himself into a complete player. Not saying we should draft him, but I can see him having a boarderline all-star career in the NBA.
Im still a big fan of Curry, even though he stuggled in his first game back from the ankle injury the other day. I dont think he gets enough credit for his PG skills. Of all the tweener guard/ PG wannabies, He has the best pg skills...
Current Favs:
Griffin
Rubio
Thabeet
Curry
Teague
Jennings
So, when does Cole Aldrich get mentioned as an option? Ok, ok, #1 might be a liiiiittle bit high, but an athletic PF/C just shy of 7 feet that is putting up solid numbers for Kansas will definitely be a high pick, imo.
He and Mullens will probably go a lot higher than currently projected (if they declare).
He and Mullens will probably go a lot higher than currently projected (if they declare).
I think the problem is that Aldrich is just such an unexciting prospect. He's fine. He's got decent athleticism, decent skills, putting up decent numbers, he'll probably be a decent backup PF/C. He'd be a solid single rather than a home run. There's also the matter of him getting torched by Brackins during his 40 point game, but can't read too much into one game.
But since the Kings will probably pick both ahead of and behind where Aldrich would be drafted it doesn't matter much anyway.
But since the Kings will probably pick both ahead of and behind where Aldrich would be drafted it doesn't matter much anyway.
btw, I've been lurking in this topic for a long time and have been enjoying it.
Consider me a fan of Teague. His type of quickness doesn't come around often, and as mentioned, he is probably a better PG than people give him credit for because of the system he plays in and how the coach uses him.
Blake Griffin and Rubio are at the top of my list, though. Will be tough to choose between those two if the chance arises. Rubio is just a special player. Incredible instincts. A ball hawk too. But, I do wonder if he can keep NBA PGs in front of him. Griffin, however, is the most solid player in the draft to be an All-Star type of player (like Boozer).
If the Kings fall to picks 3-5, I say you can't go wrong with Harden. He's just one of players that wins ball games for you, somehow, some way.
Cole Aldrich, BJ Mullens, and Thabeet: Not bad consolation prizes, imo. Aldrich might be the best of the bunch down the road. But Thabeet is really the only one that has game-changing ability right now (his interior presence on D). He just scares me from a consistency aspect.
Tyler Hansborough: this is the guy I really want for the Kings first pick. A college stud, tough, gritty...I kid! I'm keeeeding.
Consider me a fan of Teague. His type of quickness doesn't come around often, and as mentioned, he is probably a better PG than people give him credit for because of the system he plays in and how the coach uses him.
Blake Griffin and Rubio are at the top of my list, though. Will be tough to choose between those two if the chance arises. Rubio is just a special player. Incredible instincts. A ball hawk too. But, I do wonder if he can keep NBA PGs in front of him. Griffin, however, is the most solid player in the draft to be an All-Star type of player (like Boozer).
If the Kings fall to picks 3-5, I say you can't go wrong with Harden. He's just one of players that wins ball games for you, somehow, some way.
Cole Aldrich, BJ Mullens, and Thabeet: Not bad consolation prizes, imo. Aldrich might be the best of the bunch down the road. But Thabeet is really the only one that has game-changing ability right now (his interior presence on D). He just scares me from a consistency aspect.
Tyler Hansborough: this is the guy I really want for the Kings first pick. A college stud, tough, gritty...I kid! I'm keeeeding.
You are vastly underrating the stupidity of NBA GMs.
No, really Aldrich is a nice prospect. He doesn't get to show a lot of his game due to being a sophmore on a guard dominated team in a guard dominated college game. A solid rebounder, hustles and blocks shots on D. Decent perimeter skills and garbage man on offense.
I mean, Scot Pollard was drafted #19 by the Pistons. Aldrich is a better all-around prospect, imo.
No, really Aldrich is a nice prospect. He doesn't get to show a lot of his game due to being a sophmore on a guard dominated team in a guard dominated college game. A solid rebounder, hustles and blocks shots on D. Decent perimeter skills and garbage man on offense.
I mean, Scot Pollard was drafted #19 by the Pistons. Aldrich is a better all-around prospect, imo.