and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
- Start date
Just watching the UConn/Louisville game -- can we have the Thabeet conversation again?
Let's see, 7'3" guy coming off of a triple double (pts/rebs/blks) that moves well enough to hedge screens at the three point line and recover to the hoop with the guards. Solid outlet passer who looks upcourt as soon as he gets the ball. Plays the lob and dunk game like Chandler. Has decent form on his FTs so might eventually develop a little facing jumper. And completely disrupted Louisville's offense with stuff that won't show up in the boxscore. Had at least 4 peoipel change their mind about shots with him there, several more take different shots than they woould have, a guy travel, Louisville's center would not even try to shoot, he deflected several low passes for steals, and that's before we get to the blocks.
Yeah, his hands are shaky, and he has no passing vision in the post, but really now, this guy has all the tools to be very effective at the next level as a defensive roleplayer.
Let's see, 7'3" guy coming off of a triple double (pts/rebs/blks) that moves well enough to hedge screens at the three point line and recover to the hoop with the guards. Solid outlet passer who looks upcourt as soon as he gets the ball. Plays the lob and dunk game like Chandler. Has decent form on his FTs so might eventually develop a little facing jumper. And completely disrupted Louisville's offense with stuff that won't show up in the boxscore. Had at least 4 peoipel change their mind about shots with him there, several more take different shots than they woould have, a guy travel, Louisville's center would not even try to shoot, he deflected several low passes for steals, and that's before we get to the blocks.
Yeah, his hands are shaky, and he has no passing vision in the post, but really now, this guy has all the tools to be very effective at the next level as a defensive roleplayer.
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UConn/Louisville (to chime in with what Brick's saying)-
Holy crap! What in the heck has Terrence Williams been eating/smoking/ingesting lately?? He looks like a completely different player than he did earlier in the season. It seems like his shooting streak has given him an incredible surge of confidence offensively. He was always a good all-around player, but wow -- he's playing offense like he means it, and really asserting himself. Looked unstoppable, where in the past he was kind of a wallflower. I'm pretty amazed.
Earl Clark - If only this guy could shoot. Has a great handle, great size, great athleticism... just can't shoot a lick. Doesn't show any signs of getting better and since he's a junior it's getting a little late, but hey -- I suppose he could all of a sudden pull a Terence Williams.
Hasheem Thabeet - kind of invisible early until a couple of sweet alley-oops on the break that seemed to get him going. An amazing thing about him is how quickly he can get down the floor and actually impact fast breaks. He doesn't look like he's moving quickly because his gait is strange, but man can he get down the floor quickly. Fumbled a pretty easy pass on a fast break, but other than that his hands looked good. He's also able to slide over on pick and rolls, and changed the game defensively. Samuels was just completely negated, and he was always in their heads. Even showed a 15 footer! Dominating this game.
Holy crap! What in the heck has Terrence Williams been eating/smoking/ingesting lately?? He looks like a completely different player than he did earlier in the season. It seems like his shooting streak has given him an incredible surge of confidence offensively. He was always a good all-around player, but wow -- he's playing offense like he means it, and really asserting himself. Looked unstoppable, where in the past he was kind of a wallflower. I'm pretty amazed.
Earl Clark - If only this guy could shoot. Has a great handle, great size, great athleticism... just can't shoot a lick. Doesn't show any signs of getting better and since he's a junior it's getting a little late, but hey -- I suppose he could all of a sudden pull a Terence Williams.
Hasheem Thabeet - kind of invisible early until a couple of sweet alley-oops on the break that seemed to get him going. An amazing thing about him is how quickly he can get down the floor and actually impact fast breaks. He doesn't look like he's moving quickly because his gait is strange, but man can he get down the floor quickly. Fumbled a pretty easy pass on a fast break, but other than that his hands looked good. He's also able to slide over on pick and rolls, and changed the game defensively. Samuels was just completely negated, and he was always in their heads. Even showed a 15 footer! Dominating this game.
I'm watching the UConn/Louisville game as well, and I am thoroughly impressed. He is really intimidating Louisville, changing the way they have to play. He even had a nice jumper, hits the free throws, and from what I've seen, he has good character. Did I also hear he has only been playing four years? I think he's got some great potential...
Just to catch up.
Terrence Williams did look great tonight. He shows a lot of tenacity, which I like because that is something we have hardly any of. If hes there with our 2nd first rounder, I would say he should be considered, but I like brackens and summers much more than him at that spot (although i doubt by june, neither will be around that late).
As far as jordan hill is concerned. He seems better every game he plays, but I still cant justify using a lottery pick on him. Sure he might be one of the best bigs in the draft, but I honestly think 5 years down the road he wont be any better than JT or hawes. I dont see why we'd use a lottery pick on a position where we have some players in place, unless the pick is for an absolute beast, and I wouldnt place hill in that category.
For all of you who havent watched teague too much, you need to. I know some people are worried he isnt a "pass first pg" or has a poor TO/Assist ratio. Like nbrans said, he doesnt actually play point guard a ton for wake, he brings the ball up like a point, dishes it off, then moves in the offense. I think if he played point fulltime he could get assists, doesnt mean hell be a chris paul level dynamic passer, but i dont doubt that he will find open men and bring double teams due to his penetration ability. I think passing more and finding open men is something that can be taught moreso. Having elite quickness, explosion, shooting and good defensive instincts for a pg you cannot teach. Besides, I think the whole "true" point guard method is becoming somewhat overblown these days.
Terrence Williams did look great tonight. He shows a lot of tenacity, which I like because that is something we have hardly any of. If hes there with our 2nd first rounder, I would say he should be considered, but I like brackens and summers much more than him at that spot (although i doubt by june, neither will be around that late).
As far as jordan hill is concerned. He seems better every game he plays, but I still cant justify using a lottery pick on him. Sure he might be one of the best bigs in the draft, but I honestly think 5 years down the road he wont be any better than JT or hawes. I dont see why we'd use a lottery pick on a position where we have some players in place, unless the pick is for an absolute beast, and I wouldnt place hill in that category.
For all of you who havent watched teague too much, you need to. I know some people are worried he isnt a "pass first pg" or has a poor TO/Assist ratio. Like nbrans said, he doesnt actually play point guard a ton for wake, he brings the ball up like a point, dishes it off, then moves in the offense. I think if he played point fulltime he could get assists, doesnt mean hell be a chris paul level dynamic passer, but i dont doubt that he will find open men and bring double teams due to his penetration ability. I think passing more and finding open men is something that can be taught moreso. Having elite quickness, explosion, shooting and good defensive instincts for a pg you cannot teach. Besides, I think the whole "true" point guard method is becoming somewhat overblown these days.
Teague makes me nervous. Shoot, all the players in this years draft make me nervous but Teague reminds me a lot of Randolph Childress. Not quite a point, too small to play 2 at the next level. Stud when it counted and gifted ball player but kind of lacking a position. I think bottom line, if a guy doesn't fit in a position at the next level, don't take him with a lottery pick (especially not a high lottery pick). The odds are just too stacked against them.
I been watching Thabeet for sometime now and I think his more fitting to resurrect this franchise over any PG or PF declaring for this draft(as Rubio is more likely not declaring). In basketball big men are much better crowd drawer. This kid is too mobile for his height. Yao resurrected Houston. Howard for the Magic. Oden(most likely) ,Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Amare and the list can go on.
And with the recent influx of mobile young big men to the sport (Howard, Oden, Bynum, Lopez, even Hibbert), its more likely that in the suceeding years the game will turn back to "who's got the best big" again. And now is most likely our only chance to finally own one that can stick with us for a long time.
Yes, we have Hawes and Thompson already. But neither will stunt down Thabeet's development if we pick him as they are all young players and will more likely have better chemistry than having a veteran around.
We can trade down using the houston pick(plus filler) to draft a good enough PG. Good PGs are mostly still abundant outside of the top ten draft than a very good big man.
This years draft is considered to be a weak draft. Most of the players will be judged through potential and Thabeet is boosting a lot of it.
And with the recent influx of mobile young big men to the sport (Howard, Oden, Bynum, Lopez, even Hibbert), its more likely that in the suceeding years the game will turn back to "who's got the best big" again. And now is most likely our only chance to finally own one that can stick with us for a long time.
Yes, we have Hawes and Thompson already. But neither will stunt down Thabeet's development if we pick him as they are all young players and will more likely have better chemistry than having a veteran around.
We can trade down using the houston pick(plus filler) to draft a good enough PG. Good PGs are mostly still abundant outside of the top ten draft than a very good big man.
This years draft is considered to be a weak draft. Most of the players will be judged through potential and Thabeet is boosting a lot of it.
I don't agree at all..
First off Thabeet is not going to be any of those players you mentioned above. For every one of those guys above there are 50-100 players that aren't even close to that.
Second, the Kings need a PG. Without a good PG the Kings will continue to play a bunch of 1 on 1 uninspired basketball and no matter how many big men you bring in the Kings will still suck.
Plan and simple the Kings need a PG... Someone to give us 40 minutes a night who will not turn the ball over or pass the ball to someone that will turn it over. Someone who can dictate the flow of the offense.
Right now we have 5 players acting like point guards one minute than acting like Allen Iverson the next minute. It's totally unorganized ball the Kings are playing right now, and no amount of big men will help the Kings get any better. We need a PG and we need one ASAP.
First off Thabeet is not going to be any of those players you mentioned above. For every one of those guys above there are 50-100 players that aren't even close to that.
Second, the Kings need a PG. Without a good PG the Kings will continue to play a bunch of 1 on 1 uninspired basketball and no matter how many big men you bring in the Kings will still suck.
Plan and simple the Kings need a PG... Someone to give us 40 minutes a night who will not turn the ball over or pass the ball to someone that will turn it over. Someone who can dictate the flow of the offense.
Right now we have 5 players acting like point guards one minute than acting like Allen Iverson the next minute. It's totally unorganized ball the Kings are playing right now, and no amount of big men will help the Kings get any better. We need a PG and we need one ASAP.
Stud PGs(those picked in the top 5) don't grow at the backyard every year and declare for draft. And I think we just missed a good chunk last year (Augustine, Westbrook, Rose) and it was 3 years(2005 draft) before that when there were really legit/elite PG declaring (Paul, Williams, Felton). So why do we force to draft a PG as our top pick (possibly top 5 at worst), when none of the PG (as of this time) seemed to be able to burst into the top 5.
As am not opposed to drafting a PG, but if we are to get #1 pick, its better spent on a big man and draft a PG with the houston pick.
If my memory is still working, young PGs seldom bring home the bacon. And Bill Russells 11 rings has proven that.
As am not opposed to drafting a PG, but if we are to get #1 pick, its better spent on a big man and draft a PG with the houston pick.
If my memory is still working, young PGs seldom bring home the bacon. And Bill Russells 11 rings has proven that.
We still need a PG though.. We can draft 3 PF/C this year and even if they turn into studs or play like studs next season we will still suck. The Kings have a couple "team players" and the rest are really in it for themselves or they don't understand the team concept. As for Beno... I don't know where to start with him. He tries to do things he cannot do while the rest of the team stands around watching him dribble it off his foot or get the ball stolen from him.
I know stud PGs aren't a dime a dozen, but if I had to take a chance this year it would have to be on a PG because without a true PG we will not get any better. Even if we brought in 1000 Thabeet's.
BTW Thabeet had a nice game tonight. Played pretty well down the stretch against a tough team.. I still don't want him though
Next game he's gonna put up 6pts 3rbds 2blks and 4 tos j/k
I know stud PGs aren't a dime a dozen, but if I had to take a chance this year it would have to be on a PG because without a true PG we will not get any better. Even if we brought in 1000 Thabeet's.
BTW Thabeet had a nice game tonight. Played pretty well down the stretch against a tough team.. I still don't want him though
Next game he's gonna put up 6pts 3rbds 2blks and 4 tos j/k
Big always trumps little.
Thing is, there are 4 elite teams in the league right now (going by record), their PGs are Mo Williams (2nd round pick #47), Derek Fisher (drafted #24), Jameer Nelson (drafted #20), and Rajon Rondo (drafted #21). this is NOT one of those stupid arguments that see, draft position does not matter and you are juat as likely to get a good one late as early. That is ignorance. You want Chris Paul, you draft #3, not #20. But it IS an argument that having Chris Paul does not track nearly as closely with winning big as having dominant big men.
Now if Chris Paul is there to be drafted when we pick, I cheerfully take him and smile all the way to the bank. But there is no point in forcing the issue for a little guy if he's not going to be that level. The last time a team won a title without a dominant defensive big man the Berlin Wall had just fallen. And even that was a close call given that Horace Grant at the time was on the All Defensive Teams. Year in and year out though, Hakeem, Rodman, Shaq, Admiral, Duncan, Big Ben, Garnett...the march goes on. The same cannot be said for PG play (John Paxson started for a title winner, so did BJ armstrong, so did Kenny Smith,, Avery Johnson, Ron Harper, Derek Fisher old JWill, Rondo... I would love to have a great one, but if you get the frontcourt in order a good solid one will do.
Thing is, there are 4 elite teams in the league right now (going by record), their PGs are Mo Williams (2nd round pick #47), Derek Fisher (drafted #24), Jameer Nelson (drafted #20), and Rajon Rondo (drafted #21). this is NOT one of those stupid arguments that see, draft position does not matter and you are juat as likely to get a good one late as early. That is ignorance. You want Chris Paul, you draft #3, not #20. But it IS an argument that having Chris Paul does not track nearly as closely with winning big as having dominant big men.
Now if Chris Paul is there to be drafted when we pick, I cheerfully take him and smile all the way to the bank. But there is no point in forcing the issue for a little guy if he's not going to be that level. The last time a team won a title without a dominant defensive big man the Berlin Wall had just fallen. And even that was a close call given that Horace Grant at the time was on the All Defensive Teams. Year in and year out though, Hakeem, Rodman, Shaq, Admiral, Duncan, Big Ben, Garnett...the march goes on. The same cannot be said for PG play (John Paxson started for a title winner, so did BJ armstrong, so did Kenny Smith,, Avery Johnson, Ron Harper, Derek Fisher old JWill, Rondo... I would love to have a great one, but if you get the frontcourt in order a good solid one will do.
Thabeet's combination of length, shot blocking, and agility is a can't miss package considering the value of defensive bigs to all those championship teams. With a high possibility of us unloading a lot of contracts by trade deadline, and considering the abundance of seasoned PGs in the FA market this summer (Miller, Kidd, Bibby, Sessions, Mason, etc.) plus other teams who might be willing to part with quality PG (i.e. Hinrich in Chi), there's a much better safety net that we can still fix the TO issues by getting either of these proven PGs than lossing a rare, cheap, young, and a real defensive big man from this draft.
If Petrie pulls some thing like a Hinrich trade by trade deadline, then all eyes should be on Thabeet.
If Petrie pulls some thing like a Hinrich trade by trade deadline, then all eyes should be on Thabeet.
We still need a PG though.. We can draft 3 PF/C this year and even if they turn into studs or play like studs next season we will still suck. The Kings have a couple "team players" and the rest are really in it for themselves or they don't understand the team concept. As for Beno... I don't know where to start with him. He tries to do things he cannot do while the rest of the team stands around watching him dribble it off his foot or get the ball stolen from him.
I know stud PGs aren't a dime a dozen, but if I had to take a chance this year it would have to be on a PG because without a true PG we will not get any better. Even if we brought in 1000 Thabeet's.
BTW Thabeet had a nice game tonight. Played pretty well down the stretch against a tough team.. I still don't want him though Next game he's gonna put up 6pts 3rbds 2blks and 4 tos j/k
I know stud PGs aren't a dime a dozen, but if I had to take a chance this year it would have to be on a PG because without a true PG we will not get any better. Even if we brought in 1000 Thabeet's.
BTW Thabeet had a nice game tonight. Played pretty well down the stretch against a tough team.. I still don't want him though
Next game he's gonna put up 6pts 3rbds 2blks and 4 tos j/k
I wouldn't oversell what Thabeet can do. He's not Bill Russell, he's not Hakeem, he's not Wilt. He certainly has his limitations, and he may be one of the worst passers in college basketball. But he could be a taller Tyson Chandler, a taller, better Dalembert, or, I still maintain, a guy similar to Dikembe Mutombo. Last night's game demonstrated some serious progress. He's better at covering pick and rolls, he's getting better offensively (that 15 footer looked really smooth), and he simply dominated the game whether he was getting blocks or not. Louisville didn't even bother trying to score on him or inside. They reduced themselves to jumpshooters. And Louisville is one of the more athletic teams in college basketball. Thabeet is going to have a presence in the NBA.
At the same time, I still think Teague is a can't-miss PG. I know people are concerned about whether he's a point, but his combination of blinding quickness, skills and shooting doesn't come around often. He's as fast as Westbrook (maybe even faster) only much farther along offensively. If he had a more creative vision as a passer I think you'd have to start the Chris Paul comparisons. As it stands he has the potential to be a special offensive player.
Right now though, there are really only three players I'm very excited about in the draft: Teague, Thabeet and Craig Brackins.
At the same time, I still think Teague is a can't-miss PG. I know people are concerned about whether he's a point, but his combination of blinding quickness, skills and shooting doesn't come around often. He's as fast as Westbrook (maybe even faster) only much farther along offensively. If he had a more creative vision as a passer I think you'd have to start the Chris Paul comparisons. As it stands he has the potential to be a special offensive player.
Right now though, there are really only three players I'm very excited about in the draft: Teague, Thabeet and Craig Brackins.
The Thabeet bandwagon sure was lonely last year. Now things are quite different around here. There's still plenty of room people .
It's true we need a better PG than Beno. But we just committed years and millions to him. So drafting a PG with a top pick will force us to commit more years and millions to a PG in the near future. And we don't necessarily need that. We need a PG that has a solid IQ, can dish some dimes, and can play some decent defense next to Kevin Martin. In this draft it seems like there will be a player of that ilk with our second first round pick.
I'd really like to see us trade Miller for expirings and a draft pick. Then we will have one extra first rounder to package up with Houston's pick to move up in the first round. Simultaneously that move clears up some serious room in the frontcourt for Thabeet to slide in. Moving up in the first round allows us to get a better PG.
.It's true we need a better PG than Beno. But we just committed years and millions to him. So drafting a PG with a top pick will force us to commit more years and millions to a PG in the near future. And we don't necessarily need that. We need a PG that has a solid IQ, can dish some dimes, and can play some decent defense next to Kevin Martin. In this draft it seems like there will be a player of that ilk with our second first round pick.
I'd really like to see us trade Miller for expirings and a draft pick. Then we will have one extra first rounder to package up with Houston's pick to move up in the first round. Simultaneously that move clears up some serious room in the frontcourt for Thabeet to slide in. Moving up in the first round allows us to get a better PG.
The Thabeet bandwagon sure was lonely last year. Now things are quite different around here. There's still plenty of room people .
It's true we need a better PG than Beno. But we just committed years and millions to him. So drafting a PG with a top pick will force us to commit more years and millions to a PG in the near future. And we don't necessarily need that. We need a PG that has a solid IQ, can dish some dimes, and can play some decent defense next to Kevin Martin. In this draft it seems like there will be a player of that ilk with our second first round pick.
I'd really like to see us trade Miller for expirings and a draft pick. Then we will have one extra first rounder to package up with Houston's pick to move up in the first round. Simultaneously that move clears up some serious room in the frontcourt for Thabeet to slide in. Moving up in the first round allows us to get a better PG.
.It's true we need a better PG than Beno. But we just committed years and millions to him. So drafting a PG with a top pick will force us to commit more years and millions to a PG in the near future. And we don't necessarily need that. We need a PG that has a solid IQ, can dish some dimes, and can play some decent defense next to Kevin Martin. In this draft it seems like there will be a player of that ilk with our second first round pick.
I'd really like to see us trade Miller for expirings and a draft pick. Then we will have one extra first rounder to package up with Houston's pick to move up in the first round. Simultaneously that move clears up some serious room in the frontcourt for Thabeet to slide in. Moving up in the first round allows us to get a better PG.
NBA Draft programming alert:
This afternoon at 4:00 on ESPN is Purdue/Ohio St. BJ Mullens continues to develop and has been looking better lately.
Tomorrow there's a great one at 4:00 on ESPN2: Wake/Miami. If you haven't seen Jeff Teague, time to start. Miami also features possibly the most athletic guy in college basketball: frosh DeQuan Jones.
Syracuse and Jonny Flynn play West Virginia at 4:00 on ESPN.
Fire up the Tivos and DVRs!
This afternoon at 4:00 on ESPN is Purdue/Ohio St. BJ Mullens continues to develop and has been looking better lately.
Tomorrow there's a great one at 4:00 on ESPN2: Wake/Miami. If you haven't seen Jeff Teague, time to start. Miami also features possibly the most athletic guy in college basketball: frosh DeQuan Jones.
Syracuse and Jonny Flynn play West Virginia at 4:00 on ESPN.
Fire up the Tivos and DVRs!
Yeah, I'm still excited about The Gambit, but Teague moved ahead.
(and of course, credit where due on the origin of the nickname The Gambit)
(and of course, credit where due on the origin of the nickname The Gambit)
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I just don't see how anybody can put Thabeet ahead of Teague. It's all about risk. Which one has the greatest potential for being a bust? Doesn't Thabeet have a much greater potential risk? I just don't see the risk in Teague that is there for Thabeet. Yes, he might not become a "true" point guard, but can you really believe that with his quickness and shot that he will be a bust? Second, how long do you think it's going to take for each one to develop? I think Teague could step in immediately and have an impact. Thabeet? Could be quite a long while.