and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
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I actually disagree about your assessment of the bust potential, even though I have Teague higher than Thabeet. I've always said that at worst with Thabeet you have an athletic 7'3" center on your roster. Darn. His bust potential, barring injury, isn't that huge.
The track record for 6'2" combo guards is mixed in the NBA. I think Teague has enough point guard skills and quickness to buck that mixed record, but he could always be a guy like Ben Gordon who puts up points but is problematic because he needs a point guard to be effective. I don't think that will happen, but it's a risk.
That said, I don't think the Kings should be approaching this draft going for the player with the least amount of bust potential. We need a star.
The track record for 6'2" combo guards is mixed in the NBA. I think Teague has enough point guard skills and quickness to buck that mixed record, but he could always be a guy like Ben Gordon who puts up points but is problematic because he needs a point guard to be effective. I don't think that will happen, but it's a risk.
That said, I don't think the Kings should be approaching this draft going for the player with the least amount of bust potential. We need a star.
Purdue/Ohio St.-
I don't know whether Mullens is in better shape or just playing with more confidence, but he looked more athletic to me in this one, really bouncy and going for rebounds. He can really run the floor. All of his points were dunks and putbacks, but he looked very coordinated as he was catching and finishing. Just not really a shotblocker, and other than being reasonably mobile, he's really not a good defender. Bigs can easily post him up and get their shots over him. JaJuan Johnson really wasn't bothered by him at all, and he's only 6'9". I still think the comparison with him is a slightly more athletic Jeff Foster.
Evan Turner also looked pretty good in this one, he has good vision, some nifty moves that free up his midrange jumper and a crafty crossover, but I still don't think he's athletic enough to make an impact in the NBA.
Purdue's JaJuan Johnson looked pretty tough out there. He's a skinny 6'9"-6'10" with extremely long arms, a pretty good athlete, and really skilled inside with a good turnaround jumper. Just a sophomore, but he's the type of guy who could really start breaking out starting with this 30 point outing.
I don't know whether Mullens is in better shape or just playing with more confidence, but he looked more athletic to me in this one, really bouncy and going for rebounds. He can really run the floor. All of his points were dunks and putbacks, but he looked very coordinated as he was catching and finishing. Just not really a shotblocker, and other than being reasonably mobile, he's really not a good defender. Bigs can easily post him up and get their shots over him. JaJuan Johnson really wasn't bothered by him at all, and he's only 6'9". I still think the comparison with him is a slightly more athletic Jeff Foster.
Evan Turner also looked pretty good in this one, he has good vision, some nifty moves that free up his midrange jumper and a crafty crossover, but I still don't think he's athletic enough to make an impact in the NBA.
Purdue's JaJuan Johnson looked pretty tough out there. He's a skinny 6'9"-6'10" with extremely long arms, a pretty good athlete, and really skilled inside with a good turnaround jumper. Just a sophomore, but he's the type of guy who could really start breaking out starting with this 30 point outing.
I've seen Teague play(not much,but enough maybe) and to me, he is very very and VERY risky player. He could be an all-star for a year or two, or he could be warming the bench. He looks like a shoot first point guard and he throws lots of dumb shots. I think I'm going to look more of his game as season goes on, but now, I'm not sold on him.
And Thabeet, when I first saw him, I was like nah. But now, I think I understand why people like him. Even though he is 7'3" he runs like 6'10" PF! And his presence inside is HUGE IMO. Though I'm very worried about his offensive skill, he has soft hands and nice touch. He could help Kings inside because Hawes can't guard Oden, Duncan or any of big guys. If he doesn't get injured or anything he could be a great player.
Conclusion: There is no sure thing in this year's draft!
1. Griffin
2. Rubio
3. Harden
4. Thabeet
5. Teague
I don't know. They all look like high reward, high risk players except Harden.
And Thabeet, when I first saw him, I was like nah. But now, I think I understand why people like him. Even though he is 7'3" he runs like 6'10" PF! And his presence inside is HUGE IMO. Though I'm very worried about his offensive skill, he has soft hands and nice touch. He could help Kings inside because Hawes can't guard Oden, Duncan or any of big guys. If he doesn't get injured or anything he could be a great player.
Conclusion: There is no sure thing in this year's draft!
1. Griffin
2. Rubio
3. Harden
4. Thabeet
5. Teague
I don't know. They all look like high reward, high risk players except Harden.
We haven't got a full-sized rebounding big in years and as far as this draft goes only Thabeet seems to have a more fitting resume'.
- As for Griffin, I'd rather have Hawes moving to PF and Thabeet at C. Than have Hawes and Thompson rotating at C.
- As for Rubio, he's not going to be another Steve Nash until D'Antoni will coach this team. And his more likely not declaring this year.
- Harden?, too undersized, which would mean he will need a lot of time to find his shot over full sized SG.
- Teague? The elite PGs in the league now mostly played that position even before entering the NBA. So if the TO issue is the concern, then drafting natural college PG is a much safer option for this.
Our houston pick is projected at around #22 where natural PGs were still expected to be available (i.e. Lawson, Maynor, Collison, Price, Mills, etc.). However, at #22 full-sized big men are already defensive and even offensive liabilities.
- As for Griffin, I'd rather have Hawes moving to PF and Thabeet at C. Than have Hawes and Thompson rotating at C.
- As for Rubio, he's not going to be another Steve Nash until D'Antoni will coach this team. And his more likely not declaring this year.
- Harden?, too undersized, which would mean he will need a lot of time to find his shot over full sized SG.
- Teague? The elite PGs in the league now mostly played that position even before entering the NBA. So if the TO issue is the concern, then drafting natural college PG is a much safer option for this.
Our houston pick is projected at around #22 where natural PGs were still expected to be available (i.e. Lawson, Maynor, Collison, Price, Mills, etc.). However, at #22 full-sized big men are already defensive and even offensive liabilities.
I just don't see Thabeet as athletic. If he were athletic, he'd be an unquestionable #1 in the entire draft pick. Coordination is part of athleticism, and Thabeet doesn't have a whole lot of that. If he did, he'd score a hell of a lot more and wouldn't look one minute like he just found out what basketball was all about.
The question to ask with Teague is not whether he can play "true" point guard, but whether he can get his shot anytime he wants it in the NBA. I think he can, very unlike Gordon. He's got incredible quicks and he can handle. He's kind of guy that Theus would drool over because he could demolish teams coming around screens. They'd have to be so cognizant of his scoring ability that it would open up easy passing opportunities.
As for the last statement, I agree with you, you can't just take the least risky pick. In fact, if Petrie thinks Thabeet has the biggest potential in this draft, but his risks are a little higher than the other guys, then I say, go for it. But I really don't think Petrie sees it that way. GMs don't stay GMs very long by choosing busts in the first five picks. I will not cry if Petrie chooses Thabeet because he is 7'3" and looks like he can walk and chew gum at the same time. The funny thing is, if the so-called indisputable #1 in the entire draft, Griffin, is picked, I will cry. There's no way I want him in a Kings uniform.
The question to ask with Teague is not whether he can play "true" point guard, but whether he can get his shot anytime he wants it in the NBA. I think he can, very unlike Gordon. He's got incredible quicks and he can handle. He's kind of guy that Theus would drool over because he could demolish teams coming around screens. They'd have to be so cognizant of his scoring ability that it would open up easy passing opportunities.
As for the last statement, I agree with you, you can't just take the least risky pick. In fact, if Petrie thinks Thabeet has the biggest potential in this draft, but his risks are a little higher than the other guys, then I say, go for it. But I really don't think Petrie sees it that way. GMs don't stay GMs very long by choosing busts in the first five picks. I will not cry if Petrie chooses Thabeet because he is 7'3" and looks like he can walk and chew gum at the same time. The funny thing is, if the so-called indisputable #1 in the entire draft, Griffin, is picked, I will cry. There's no way I want him in a Kings uniform.
I understand your argument with teague being a "shoot first" point guard, but whats the big deal if he is a potent scorer with some solid passing ability mixed in. Just because he shoots first doesnt mean he wont pass at all. I think you can teach a guy to be more willing to pass the ball, you cant teach kids to be lightning quick and make yourself a threat to score almost at will, which teague can do with his handle, driving and shooting ability. I think there are plenty of point guards who arent "pass first" guys who are regarded as some of the best in the league: Tony Parker, Billups, Stuckey, Devin Harris, Mo williams, Baron Davis, etc. Heck, Marbury has always been a shoot first pg, yet he has averaged almost 8 assists/game over his whole career, he was just a moron and headcase that plagued his teams and brought himself to where he is now. Isaiah Thomas was a shoot first guy too. I dont think you need to have chris paul or deron williams vision to be a good pg in the league, although it is a major plus. I think teague has a lot of the tools you cant teach, and with a little bit of grooming, has the potential to be a great great player.
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I think Hill is a solid player, but not someone I would consider drafting in the top 5. Maybe if Griffin, Thabeet, Teague, Rubio (if declares) are all off the board I would consider beause I can see him bringing a tough defensive presence that we severely lack, but even then I would prefer Brackens, as he has a bit more skill and versatility. Hill has a good motor, but like you said he is a bit skinny, and does not have near the offensive potential or skills like chris bosh. I think he could be a good rebounder, energy guy, but I see him being pretty limited offensively at the next level.
Well.... I did jump on him, just not in the same way. By the way, I'm a little late to the table on this, but I did watch the UConn/Louisville game. I don't know if it was Thabeet's best game ever, but it was the best game I ever saw him play. Someone called him a can't miss prospect. I think thats a little too generous, but he's certainly an intriguing prospect.
The Kings need a lot of help, and a defensive minded player like Thabeet would be a welcome addition. I do think that people have to realize what their getting. Offensively, he's a major work in progress. Any flaws you see at the college level will become even bigger at the NBA level. You'll have a man playing center thats still trying to figure out how to pass out of the double team, on a team that is hard up for assists right now. He won't help in that dept. You won't be able to play a zone every night in the NBA. On man to man, the other teams center will try to pull him away from the basket and make him ineffective on defense.
I'm not saying, don't draft him. I'm just saying, know what your getting, and then be patient with him, because its going to take a while before he's NBA ready on offense.
The Kings need a lot of help, and a defensive minded player like Thabeet would be a welcome addition. I do think that people have to realize what their getting. Offensively, he's a major work in progress. Any flaws you see at the college level will become even bigger at the NBA level. You'll have a man playing center thats still trying to figure out how to pass out of the double team, on a team that is hard up for assists right now. He won't help in that dept. You won't be able to play a zone every night in the NBA. On man to man, the other teams center will try to pull him away from the basket and make him ineffective on defense.
I'm not saying, don't draft him. I'm just saying, know what your getting, and then be patient with him, because its going to take a while before he's NBA ready on offense.
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After about a week or so posting in this thread I have a few new opinions I thought I'd add .. along with my top players
1. Blake Griffin - I think if we have number one, and assuming Rubio doesnt declare, we have to pick him. Do you think OKC would trade jeff green for him? and would that even be worth it? I dont know .. just thinking out loud .. If we draft him and dont trade him, what do you do with thompson??
1. A - Ricky Rubio - If he is in this draft, I say we take him. Griffin and Rubio are on the same level IMO ( level meaning neither of them are clear cut #1 picks ) but Rubio fills a need and avoids the thompson/griffin problem.
2. Thabeet - yep, I hated on him a few weeks ago, but enough is enough .. we need a defensive minded big man. If he could play offense, I would put him above rubio .. This really is our biggest need. His rebounding scares me a little bit though. I consitently see him letting smaller/stronger guys box him out but he still gets the rebound over the top because of his size .. this wont work in the NBA because guys are much stronger than him and have much better size than the kids he is playing now. The thing is, even if he is a 'bust' he is still 7'3 and an incredible athlete.. he'll still be able to block shots and make people think twice about coming into the paint. Every other player could potentially be a bust, but they arent 7'3.
3. Jeff Teague - I suppose he is the best point guard aside from Rubio. Problem is he isnt a true point like some people here think we need. A true point guard would be nice, but I dont think it is necessary by any means. A point guard who can play defense is, to me, more important that having a 'true' point guard. Teagues defense isnt spectacular, but he is 6'2 and he is quick .. Those two things combined could make him a real good defensive point guard .. potential potential potential.
4. Brandon Jennings - The more I think about him, the more I like him. This is largely due to the fact that I have never seen him play .. This draft is pretty weak. He was a huge prospect coming out of high school and went to europe. He hasnt had a huge amount of playing time there but his numbers arent bad. He is a lefty which is cool, and like I said before, he is a unknown. We have seen most of these other prospects play ( even rubio a bit ) but I havent seen anything on Jennings and thats what makes me like him. I think his practices are harder in europe, his schedule is harder, and he isnt getting the EGO some of these college players are getting being on ESPN all the time and talked about daily... Idk, maybe these are weak reasons to draft someone, but I'd go for it..
1. Blake Griffin - I think if we have number one, and assuming Rubio doesnt declare, we have to pick him. Do you think OKC would trade jeff green for him? and would that even be worth it? I dont know .. just thinking out loud .. If we draft him and dont trade him, what do you do with thompson??
1. A - Ricky Rubio - If he is in this draft, I say we take him. Griffin and Rubio are on the same level IMO ( level meaning neither of them are clear cut #1 picks ) but Rubio fills a need and avoids the thompson/griffin problem.
2. Thabeet - yep, I hated on him a few weeks ago, but enough is enough .. we need a defensive minded big man. If he could play offense, I would put him above rubio .. This really is our biggest need. His rebounding scares me a little bit though. I consitently see him letting smaller/stronger guys box him out but he still gets the rebound over the top because of his size .. this wont work in the NBA because guys are much stronger than him and have much better size than the kids he is playing now. The thing is, even if he is a 'bust' he is still 7'3 and an incredible athlete.. he'll still be able to block shots and make people think twice about coming into the paint. Every other player could potentially be a bust, but they arent 7'3.
3. Jeff Teague - I suppose he is the best point guard aside from Rubio. Problem is he isnt a true point like some people here think we need. A true point guard would be nice, but I dont think it is necessary by any means. A point guard who can play defense is, to me, more important that having a 'true' point guard. Teagues defense isnt spectacular, but he is 6'2 and he is quick .. Those two things combined could make him a real good defensive point guard .. potential potential potential.
4. Brandon Jennings - The more I think about him, the more I like him. This is largely due to the fact that I have never seen him play .. This draft is pretty weak. He was a huge prospect coming out of high school and went to europe. He hasnt had a huge amount of playing time there but his numbers arent bad. He is a lefty which is cool, and like I said before, he is a unknown. We have seen most of these other prospects play ( even rubio a bit ) but I havent seen anything on Jennings and thats what makes me like him. I think his practices are harder in europe, his schedule is harder, and he isnt getting the EGO some of these college players are getting being on ESPN all the time and talked about daily... Idk, maybe these are weak reasons to draft someone, but I'd go for it..
He's also in my top five. I think he's going to be a very good player in the future. Last year I said the the best center in the draft was Brook Lopez and got very mixed reactions from people and few in agreement. I think I've been proven right at this point. Of course one season does not a career make. I like the improvement in Hill and he has put on around 15 pounds of muscle from last year. Hill actually reminds me more of a Marcus Camby like player.
Camby dominated in college. He was actually a disappointment in the first years of the NBA relative to how awesome he was in college, and he was always a shotblocker (4 a game in college!), not to mention taller at 6'11". Hill doesn't have the shotblocking instincts nor the athleticism. He's just a solid 6'10" guy. Nothing to write home about. Josh Boone, Marcus Haislip, Etan Thomas, et al.
You got disagreement on that? I'm surprised, it' wasn't a very solid class for centers. Love is definitely a PF. Hibbert, Jordan, Koufos and McGee got a bit of noise, and maybe a flutter about Robin and Ajinca but I thought Brook was clearly the class of the draft in C.
I got the sense the Brook discussion was more about how good he would be, how his offense would translate, did he deserve to go top-5? But you're right, 10 was too low and he was a bargain there.
I got the sense the Brook discussion was more about how good he would be, how his offense would translate, did he deserve to go top-5? But you're right, 10 was too low and he was a bargain there.
I really want to like Thabeet, but here is my contrinued problem with him. Every time he has come up against even a remotley NBA caliber big man, he has gotten destroyed. I know that NBARANS has made the argument that they have speed on him, but the guy from Notre Dame isn't that fast and he put up 24-15 on Thabeet. Some people have said he's been looking better and he'll certainly have some opportunities against NBA caliber big men before the end of the season to prove he has improved. However, his performance against bad, good and NBA caliber competition is trending in an eerily similar manner to Hilton Armstrong and those types of athletic, but unskilled bigs.
I have made that point in the past, although actually, having watched the UConn/Notre Dame game, Thabeet really worked Harangody defensively despite Harangody being quicker than him. Most of Harangody's points either came when Thabeet wasn't guarding him or when he was cherry picking. They put up a stat of Notre Dame's shooting against Thabeet (it's somewhere earlier in this thread) and it was something like 4-17.
The reason most people say Thabeet struggles defensively against good centers is because of the Hibbert game last year when Hibbert worked him. But Thabeet has gotten much better since then, and I'm curious to see how he'll do against some more top competition. Unfortunately it's going to have to come in the NCAA tournament, because he won't be going up against any good centers for the rest of the regular season.
The reason most people say Thabeet struggles defensively against good centers is because of the Hibbert game last year when Hibbert worked him. But Thabeet has gotten much better since then, and I'm curious to see how he'll do against some more top competition. Unfortunately it's going to have to come in the NCAA tournament, because he won't be going up against any good centers for the rest of the regular season.
Yeah, I am not too worried about last year's game against Hibbert, some young players improve exponentially at that age. I do need to see a good game against a legit player though before I can put pull myself up onto the bandwagon. Although, I am sure if he does, you will be right there ready to lend me a hand on to it 
I doubt the Kings are going to get the 1st pick, and if they don't I have my eyes set on Ricky Rubio. He better not stay away from the draft another year. Jrue Holiday also seems like he might become a great player in the NBA and he would be a good fit for the Kings. I also think the Kings will be bad next year too, so they will probably get another good draft pick.