ESPN: Artest Requesting Trade, Representing Himself
- Thread starter nbrans
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Its not in hindsight for many of us. Many of us said at the time when it was rumoured that Pedja for Artest trade was going to happen that it would end the way its ending.
People make the mistake of thinking that Artest would change in the new environment. He will NEVER change. Leopards don't change their spots. Artest will never improve a franchise, he will always drag it down with his egoistic immaturity and "me first" attitude. He is a good player but as an overall package he falls WAY short of where HE believes he is. He is good but he is no where near as good as he thinks he is.
People make the mistake of thinking that Artest would change in the new environment. He will NEVER change. Leopards don't change their spots. Artest will never improve a franchise, he will always drag it down with his egoistic immaturity and "me first" attitude. He is a good player but as an overall package he falls WAY short of where HE believes he is. He is good but he is no where near as good as he thinks he is.
You're talking about the distractions, right? The hindsight comment was actually about Artest having no chance of helping the Kings become contenders.
My point was that we all knew that the distractions were likely and that he'd likely end up wearing out his welcome and get traded. That is certainly not a surprise.
To say Artest will never improve a franchise is flat out wrong. He improved the Kings when he arrived. They didn't follow up very well and it went downhill, but the trading for Artest should never have been about finding a long term corner stone. It was about getting a player that could help in the short term and then crossing your fingers that what happened after that was very good instead of very bad. It turned out to be neither, so the risk was worth it.
My point was that we all knew that the distractions were likely and that he'd likely end up wearing out his welcome and get traded. That is certainly not a surprise.
To say Artest will never improve a franchise is flat out wrong. He improved the Kings when he arrived. They didn't follow up very well and it went downhill, but the trading for Artest should never have been about finding a long term corner stone. It was about getting a player that could help in the short term and then crossing your fingers that what happened after that was very good instead of very bad. It turned out to be neither, so the risk was worth it.
Absolute rubbish!
Artest can nver improve a franchise. He could never improve us because he is just NOT a fanchise player. Never has been and never will be. He can be a very good piece that wcan contribute (for a short time) as a 2nd option but sooner or later his ego will get the better off him and he will destroy that franshice because there is someone else on that team that is thought of as the franchise player.
Look what he did to Indiana. He absolutly single handedly destroyed that franchise from a genuine contender to a laughing stock. He was always going to give us a boost in the short term but in the long run, he was always going to do what he is doing now.
He is a proven cancer always has been and always will be and the teams will continue to give him a chance in the hope of turning him around and he will let them down time and time again. The sooner he becomes someone else's problem the better it is for us.
Artest can nver improve a franchise. He could never improve us because he is just NOT a fanchise player. Never has been and never will be. He can be a very good piece that wcan contribute (for a short time) as a 2nd option but sooner or later his ego will get the better off him and he will destroy that franshice because there is someone else on that team that is thought of as the franchise player.
Look what he did to Indiana. He absolutly single handedly destroyed that franchise from a genuine contender to a laughing stock. He was always going to give us a boost in the short term but in the long run, he was always going to do what he is doing now.
He is a proven cancer always has been and always will be and the teams will continue to give him a chance in the hope of turning him around and he will let them down time and time again. The sooner he becomes someone else's problem the better it is for us.
"The interesting thing to me, though, is that the argument is that it was a bad trade because Artest helped the team win too much (as opposed to his behavior being the reason the trade was not worth it)."
To me that implies that people are saying it's either one or the other or it can only be one or the other.
Well of course it's all subjective on one's opinion of that team's ability, I think it wouldn't have won anything important even assuming everyone was on the court healthy together so that's why I think it was a waste of a move. So the team getting it into their head that they could and should compete was disastrous, I guess you could say the org. doesn't decide to rebuild either way, but I don't think this org. is that stubborn. I just think that there's a big difference in impressions from finishing out of the playoffs and being competitive against the spurs. I don't think the Maloofs get all giddy if they trade Peja for smaller pieces or just like him expire and we finish out of the playoffs.
To me that implies that people are saying it's either one or the other or it can only be one or the other.
Well of course it's all subjective on one's opinion of that team's ability, I think it wouldn't have won anything important even assuming everyone was on the court healthy together so that's why I think it was a waste of a move. So the team getting it into their head that they could and should compete was disastrous, I guess you could say the org. doesn't decide to rebuild either way, but I don't think this org. is that stubborn. I just think that there's a big difference in impressions from finishing out of the playoffs and being competitive against the spurs. I don't think the Maloofs get all giddy if they trade Peja for smaller pieces or just like him expire and we finish out of the playoffs.
The longer it goes the worse it becomes for the organization, and the same thing could have been said a year ago. Also, as it goes longer I think the more desperate we become. Everyone knows we are trying to unload him and I think everyone is holding back until we just cant stand it a moment longer and he becomes addition by substraction.
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as lame as its all ending with artest its all gonna be worth it if we pawn of Kenny Thomas with him!
Im sick and tired of Artest and his crazy antics but I wanted Peja traded for him when it happened... I was also fed up with Peja and his inability to perform when it counted... I look at it like poth Peja and Artest were underpaid, both good players, and most important to remember is that both weren't going to be a part of our next contending team... and so... oh well... its all a wash to me at this point...
But if we can rid ourselves of Kenny Thomas its all good!
however if we end up making a bad trade or just letting him walk for nothing i'd be bummed...
Im sick and tired of Artest and his crazy antics but I wanted Peja traded for him when it happened... I was also fed up with Peja and his inability to perform when it counted... I look at it like poth Peja and Artest were underpaid, both good players, and most important to remember is that both weren't going to be a part of our next contending team... and so... oh well... its all a wash to me at this point...
But if we can rid ourselves of Kenny Thomas its all good!
however if we end up making a bad trade or just letting him walk for nothing i'd be bummed...
I understand the idea behind it and it was not without merit, but from my perspective I thought our window was closed and Artest is too unreliable. So I thought we should've traded Peja for the best rebuilding package possible or just let him expire, take the lotto pick and start shopping the vets. It was just too much of a long shot.
I probably have an extreme POV, I see that. It's just I believe you should have a core that has that championship potential (whether now or down the line) or be doing the things necessary to build for one in the future. The best organizations have that mindset IMO, they realize it's over and they sell while their vets are still highly thought of around the league.
I probably have an extreme POV, I see that. It's just I believe you should have a core that has that championship potential (whether now or down the line) or be doing the things necessary to build for one in the future. The best organizations have that mindset IMO, they realize it's over and they sell while their vets are still highly thought of around the league.
In that same quote he referred to the Lakers as 'rivals'. Not really buying what you are saying. Maloofs have been hesistant to deal with the Lakers in the past couple of seasons, it's no different now.
The Lakers have been shopping Odom for 3 years now. They are absolutely willing to include Odom but theres no way Buss is going to take that albatross of contract back to make it work. Nor will any other sane front office.
The Lakers have been shopping Odom for 3 years now. They are absolutely willing to include Odom but theres no way Buss is going to take that albatross of contract back to make it work. Nor will any other sane front office.
Ahh, the greater fool theory. We were fools then, so now we're looking for another fool. Is that it?
Last year the only team that wanted to give us anything was Denver, and that was the whey. So why all the hope now that we're going to get cream now? What has changed?
Last year the only team that wanted to give us anything was Denver, and that was the whey. So why all the hope now that we're going to get cream now? What has changed?
Yes they have been shopping him. They were very willing to give him up for JO, just not Bynum. Pacers didn't want Odom. Lakers wanted boozer, Utah didn't want Odom. Lakers offered Odom for Artest when he was in Indiana, Indiana didn't want his contract.
Odom was also in the original offer for Gasol/Miller, but the Grizz didn't want to take that kind of contract back.
Odom has been on the market for quite awhile now.
Odom was also in the original offer for Gasol/Miller, but the Grizz didn't want to take that kind of contract back.
Odom has been on the market for quite awhile now.
Oh I didn't forget but that was for a couple of months after he was traded to us. What happened after that?!
You see players have a habit of playing really well when they get traded. They play with chip on their shoulder and temporarily take their game to another level. Hell Kenny Thomas was a double double guy and occasional triple double threat for a little while there when we got him. Even Brian Skinner was playing at a VERY high level. Point is, the initial boost these traded guys give you wears off pretty quickly afterwards.
You see players have a habit of playing really well when they get traded. They play with chip on their shoulder and temporarily take their game to another level. Hell Kenny Thomas was a double double guy and occasional triple double threat for a little while there when we got him. Even Brian Skinner was playing at a VERY high level. Point is, the initial boost these traded guys give you wears off pretty quickly afterwards.
I'm not sure who/what's available...if we were going to do a NY trade, it probably would have been done long ago, and if we were going to do an LA trade, THAT would have been done awhile ago too...teams arent offering much, that's what I'm getting, just an observation...and I doubt they will be offering much more THIS year, either. I think we're stuck, to tell you the truth. It just sucks that this situation has turned out the way it has, I was really hoping for the harmony to build, he had a great season last year, and the team was coming around...but you dont mortgage your franchise if you're unsure of the outcome.
Artest said his legacy with the kings was ruined because we did not bring back adelman and bonzi........PUUUUUUUHLEEZ
RIIIIIIIIIGHT......
RIIIIIIIIIGHT......
Artest said his legacy with the kings was ruined because we did not bring back adelman and bonzi........PUUUUUUUHLEEZ
RIIIIIIIIIGHT......
RIIIIIIIIIGHT......
I would agree with Ron on that point...well part of it.
The chance, the only real chance, for there to have been a Ron Artest era of success in Sacto was for us to bring back the coach who got so much out of him, and the player who was his bump and thump counterpart. My stance on that has not changed since that summer -- we had something going there. A real personality, and a real problem pairing (in more ways than one) with Ron and Bonzi beating the hell out of opposing swingmen. Everything since then has just been random patches, mismatched pieces, and overmatched coaches.
Now as for Ron's "legacy"...no, he has done a perfectly fine job of screwing that up himself in the subsequent years.
We've had this discussion before, but I believe the thinking at the time was that Webber's career could end any day, and the Kings would get nothing for him. The deal was a bet against Webber staying healthy - a bet Petrie lost. Webber was never healthy again, but he was productive for a few years. Webber just as easily could have blown his knee out a month later, Kenny Thomas might not have turned into Chris Dudley and the deal would have been OK. That's not what happened, so I agree that the deal turned out extremely poorly for the Kings, but I don't agree that it had 0% chance of working out.
Agreed, but Kenny did give us 14.5 points and almost 9 rebounds that year and had yet to turn 28. Most people didn't think 14 and 9 would be the time spent resting on each buttcheek three years later.
Edit - and Webber gave Philly an extremely unproductive 15 and 8 after the trade. I'm not saying it was a good trade, because it was obviously horrible. I am saying that hindsight is 20/20, and the trade could have been reasonable if Kenny Thomas had not gotten worse or, FSM forbid, actually improved his game.
Edit - and Webber gave Philly an extremely unproductive 15 and 8 after the trade. I'm not saying it was a good trade, because it was obviously horrible. I am saying that hindsight is 20/20, and the trade could have been reasonable if Kenny Thomas had not gotten worse or, FSM forbid, actually improved his game.
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No it couldn't have. And I of course have the been-saying-so-since-the- asinine-moment-that-trade-was-announced chops to say that.
No it couldn't have.
It was an absolute classically bad NBA trade. Absolute classic. The major player (off of the 5th winningest team in the league at the time even!) for veteran spare parts with long term deals (longer even than the major player) trade is the absolute prototype for what you do not do. Like ever. No matter who the players involved are. When the major player happens to also be the best player in franchise history and the final piece in a charisma-sapping soulectomy you have just given your team, it was just embarrassing. More embarrassing still to listen to the swine try to sell it on air and in print. It was a horrifically wrongheaded and delusional move. This whole "proven" wrong thing is a misnomer -- there was nothing to "prove". It was 100% wrong from the start. So wrong in fact that even with Webb's knee steadily deteriorating and forcing retirement, it STILL looks godawful. And trying to pin the godawfulness of it on Kenny Thomas, as if any possible performance by Kenny freaking midget PF Thomas could ever possibly justify it, is just missing the point. There was absolutely no scenario where that trade works.
But...Ron is right, isn't he? Letting Adelman go was a huge mistake. He's not the first one to say think it or the first one to say it. He didn't say it very diplomatically, but he's right. The first season he was in Sacramento the Kings went to the playoffs and the team around him has gotten progressively worse ever since. Reggie Theus was a noticeable improvement over Musselman, but he was still clearly a rookie coach and unprepared for the task of leading a team full-time. Maybe in 5 years Reggie will be ready but that's 5 years of mediocrity. Any player needs a great coach to get the best out of them, not just Ron Artest. The fact that he recognizes that doesn't make him an egotistical blow hard.
But whatever, that's just my opinion. I think you've clearly all gone nuts over this months ago so there's no point trying to talk sense now.
But whatever, that's just my opinion. I think you've clearly all gone nuts over this months ago so there's no point trying to talk sense now.
It's pretty simple to me.
It's Artest/KT for Odom/Ariza. If something better comes along take it. If it doesn't happen before the season then wait it out. Artest has 1 choice and that's to play his butt off for a new contract. If a deal isn't made by the deadline then either a) continue to play him if we are in the playoff race or b) if he's causing any problems put him on the inactive list the rest of the year and tell him to go home. Then they can either let him walk or do a sign and trade if it makes sense for the Kings. We've gone this far dealing with him, might as well see it through.
It's Artest/KT for Odom/Ariza. If something better comes along take it. If it doesn't happen before the season then wait it out. Artest has 1 choice and that's to play his butt off for a new contract. If a deal isn't made by the deadline then either a) continue to play him if we are in the playoff race or b) if he's causing any problems put him on the inactive list the rest of the year and tell him to go home. Then they can either let him walk or do a sign and trade if it makes sense for the Kings. We've gone this far dealing with him, might as well see it through.