Kings Select in the 2008 NBA DRAFT??
- Thread starter =LarryLegend=
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With all due respect, I'm glad you aren't our GM. 
But really, Love just screams hustle player with a good offensive IQ. The general physical, athletic and all around hustle levels are much higher in the NBA. So some of the qualities that make him desirable will be nullified IMO.
Love is undersized, and does not ooze defense out of his pores. We really need a defensive big man to pair with Hawes IMO, because Hawes is on the path to be a great offensive weapon with average defense.
Thabeet is 100% defense. He won't provide much offense unless properly developed, but who cares. It is good to have a player that doesn't demand the rock. And given that he has all of the physical skills, it is not out of the realm of possibility that he does develop a post game. Heck, Hawes could even teach him some moves out of his bag of tricks.
Plus, I just don't know if I can handle another 6'8 or 6'9 PF.
But really, Love just screams hustle player with a good offensive IQ. The general physical, athletic and all around hustle levels are much higher in the NBA. So some of the qualities that make him desirable will be nullified IMO.
Love is undersized, and does not ooze defense out of his pores. We really need a defensive big man to pair with Hawes IMO, because Hawes is on the path to be a great offensive weapon with average defense.
Thabeet is 100% defense. He won't provide much offense unless properly developed, but who cares. It is good to have a player that doesn't demand the rock. And given that he has all of the physical skills, it is not out of the realm of possibility that he does develop a post game. Heck, Hawes could even teach him some moves out of his bag of tricks.
Plus, I just don't know if I can handle another 6'8 or 6'9 PF.
Those hoping for thabeet are setting themselves up for disappointment. He's not a Petrie-like pick, whether YOU want him or not is irrelevant. I guarantee you he takes Kevin Love before Thabeet and Love is far more likely to be there at #12.
Personally I think Petrie takes a PG at the #12ish pick. Darren Collison, Tywon Lawson, DJ Augustine IMO will be our main pick.
Personally I think Petrie takes a PG at the #12ish pick. Darren Collison, Tywon Lawson, DJ Augustine IMO will be our main pick.
I'm with Bawla on Thabeet. He's 7'3", really athletic and graceful, and he's coordinated, and actually, he's not bad on offense -- he just never gets the ball. He's improved a lot this year, and he still has a lot more room for improvement. Unless you've seen him on TV I can see why you would be skeptical, but what's amazing about him is how fluid he is -- he's still raw, but he's a serious prospect.
I also think Collison would be a great choice -- I agree with BMiller52 that Westbrook is also awesome, but he's more of a poor man's Dwyane Wade than a real point guard. Collison is great running the offense and he's extremely athletic. I see him as a bigger, better-shooting Brevin Knight or TJ Ford.
I also think Collison would be a great choice -- I agree with BMiller52 that Westbrook is also awesome, but he's more of a poor man's Dwyane Wade than a real point guard. Collison is great running the offense and he's extremely athletic. I see him as a bigger, better-shooting Brevin Knight or TJ Ford.
I agree with you that he's not a Petrie type fix for the situation. I also think that both him and Love will be there when we pick. I've watched Thabeet play at least five times this year. He simply doesn't impress me. For his height and jumping ability he's a pathetic rebounder. He simply disappears during games.
Say what you want about Love, he knows what he's doing out there and he never quits hustleing. I'd take him in a heartbeat over Thabeet. Don't forget that Duane Causwell was very athletic and we know how that turned out.
People talk about the potential of Hardin, but he's a four year player and there's been very little growth in the last two years, which is why he's off my wish list.
Petrie will take the best player available. It won't matter whether its a center or small forward. He seldom drafts for need, unless the best player available happens to be a position of need. I happen to agree with that approach.
Say what you want about Love, he knows what he's doing out there and he never quits hustleing. I'd take him in a heartbeat over Thabeet. Don't forget that Duane Causwell was very athletic and we know how that turned out.
People talk about the potential of Hardin, but he's a four year player and there's been very little growth in the last two years, which is why he's off my wish list.
Petrie will take the best player available. It won't matter whether its a center or small forward. He seldom drafts for need, unless the best player available happens to be a position of need. I happen to agree with that approach.
So would Kevin Pittsnogle.
Is it just me, or does Petrie put an emphasis on players with a higher basketball IQ over athleticism? It previously made sense, based on the offense being run through Adelman/Coachie, but I wonder how Theus' offense will impact who is picked in the draft. Would he WANT the athlete/project over the polished player with less potential to grow?
Is it just me, or does Petrie put an emphasis on players with a higher basketball IQ over athleticism? It previously made sense, based on the offense being run through Adelman/Coachie, but I wonder how Theus' offense will impact who is picked in the draft. Would he WANT the athlete/project over the polished player with less potential to grow?
I'll agree that I'm not sold on Love. He could very well turn out to be Pittsnoggle. But he's much more refined than Madsen, his post moves are smooth and his jumper is pretty nice. Stanford coach Trent Johnson called Love the next Elton Brand. That may be a stretch, but I wouldn't write him off as an immediate bust yet.
Tyler Hansbrough, now, I see as a Mark Madsen type at the next level.
Tyler Hansbrough, now, I see as a Mark Madsen type at the next level.
That's a bit unfair IMO. Most of Petrie's picks have had some kind of physical attribute that stands out.
Douby- Very, very long and very quick. Above average Athlete
Garcia- Again, very long and quick. Decent athlete
Martin- Very quick, Good athlete
Wallace- Enough said
Hedo- Very big, and very mobile for his size
That said, I don't think Petrie goes after a combo guard in this draft, he's going to want a pure PG, especially after the whole Douby thing.
Douby- Very, very long and very quick. Above average Athlete
Garcia- Again, very long and quick. Decent athlete
Martin- Very quick, Good athlete
Wallace- Enough said
Hedo- Very big, and very mobile for his size
That said, I don't think Petrie goes after a combo guard in this draft, he's going to want a pure PG, especially after the whole Douby thing.
So as I understand it. You have one guy thats 7' 3", thats not very good offensively. He's a terrible rebounder. Not a very good passer, but loaded with athleticism and potential. And you have another guy thats 6' 9", thats a very good rebounder. Is a very good offensive player and a terrific passer, but not as athletic as you would like.
With that infomation, you think the higher skilled player is going to be a bust and the unskilled player is going to be great. Very logical..
By the way, Madson was actually pretty athletic. He simply didn't have many skills other than hustle.
With that infomation, you think the higher skilled player is going to be a bust and the unskilled player is going to be great. Very logical..
By the way, Madson was actually pretty athletic. He simply didn't have many skills other than hustle.
I second that. I think Thabeet is much more likely to be a bust as an NBA player than Love. You can talk about "potential" all you want but eventually you're going to want players who know how to play on your team. Smart players with very developed skill sets and a history of winning are far less risky than long, athletic projects who "haven't been playing basketball very long" and "have unlimited potential".
Thabeet is not a terrible rebounder. He averages 8 on the season, he's still learning positioning and how to play the game. He has all the physical abilities to be both a dominant rebounder and a shot blocker.
I'm not against Love, he is a very good player who has been coached well and has a good work ethic. But he is not the answer next to Hawes. We need someone big and athletic beside Hawes, who can make guards think twice about driving the lane.
Love could very well end up being the better, but he'll never be a star. Do we really need another "safe" pick? The Kings need to take a risk on potential for once. If it pays off, we have a skilled 7 footer with a prolific offensive game (Hawes) and a dominant shot blocking athlete (Thabeet). If it doesn't, we have Hawes and a shot blocking big off the bench. If it works out with Love, we have two skilled players up front, but neither that can play defense or block shots. Love is not what will put us in the best position for the future, at least not IMO. I'm not saying Thabeet will be a star, but he has the raw physical tools, and the reward outweighs the risk. None of these guys are guaranteed, so why not go with the guy who has the better potential?
You're right, Love has a lesser chance of being a bust (although it's debatable). But, who has a better chance of being a dominant big? The answer has to be Hasheem. I want a pick that can be a force defensively, I'm tired of the softness in the frontcourt. The Kings situation needs some risks. I don't think Thabeet is a huge risk. He hasn't played very long, has soft hands, extremely athletic and mobile for a guy his size, blocks shots at an enormous rate, and on top of that, doesn't just bite on every fake. He's good at keeping his feet on the ground. His offensive game is raw to say the least, but he's really benefited from staying in school another year, and with some good coaching, he can develop some offensive moves.
Thabeet has shown glimpses of his all round ability to flat out dominate, eg:
22pts, 14 rebs against Gardner Webb
12pts, 12 rebs, 9 blocks against Florida A & M
16pts, 10 rebs, 8 blocks against Maine
15pts, 11rebs, 3 blocks against S Hall
8pts, 9rebs, 10 blocks against Notre Dame
24pts, 15rebs, 6 blocks against Ga Tech
16pts, 13rebs, 8 blocks against DePaul
It's not really a question of ability, just a matter of good coaching and putting it all together. If Hawes can play PF in the future, he'd be perfect to put next to him.
I really like this guys potential, and I've got nothing against Love.
Unfortunately, Thabeet will likely be gone by our pick, and even if he isn't, he isn't really the type of guy Geoff would take.
I'm not against Love, he is a very good player who has been coached well and has a good work ethic. But he is not the answer next to Hawes. We need someone big and athletic beside Hawes, who can make guards think twice about driving the lane.
Love could very well end up being the better, but he'll never be a star. Do we really need another "safe" pick? The Kings need to take a risk on potential for once. If it pays off, we have a skilled 7 footer with a prolific offensive game (Hawes) and a dominant shot blocking athlete (Thabeet). If it doesn't, we have Hawes and a shot blocking big off the bench. If it works out with Love, we have two skilled players up front, but neither that can play defense or block shots. Love is not what will put us in the best position for the future, at least not IMO. I'm not saying Thabeet will be a star, but he has the raw physical tools, and the reward outweighs the risk. None of these guys are guaranteed, so why not go with the guy who has the better potential?
You're right, Love has a lesser chance of being a bust (although it's debatable). But, who has a better chance of being a dominant big? The answer has to be Hasheem. I want a pick that can be a force defensively, I'm tired of the softness in the frontcourt. The Kings situation needs some risks. I don't think Thabeet is a huge risk. He hasn't played very long, has soft hands, extremely athletic and mobile for a guy his size, blocks shots at an enormous rate, and on top of that, doesn't just bite on every fake. He's good at keeping his feet on the ground. His offensive game is raw to say the least, but he's really benefited from staying in school another year, and with some good coaching, he can develop some offensive moves.
Thabeet has shown glimpses of his all round ability to flat out dominate, eg:
22pts, 14 rebs against Gardner Webb
12pts, 12 rebs, 9 blocks against Florida A & M
16pts, 10 rebs, 8 blocks against Maine
15pts, 11rebs, 3 blocks against S Hall
8pts, 9rebs, 10 blocks against Notre Dame
24pts, 15rebs, 6 blocks against Ga Tech
16pts, 13rebs, 8 blocks against DePaul
It's not really a question of ability, just a matter of good coaching and putting it all together. If Hawes can play PF in the future, he'd be perfect to put next to him.
I really like this guys potential, and I've got nothing against Love.
Unfortunately, Thabeet will likely be gone by our pick, and even if he isn't, he isn't really the type of guy Geoff would take.
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With all due respect, I'm glad you aren't our GM.
But really, Love just screams hustle player with a good offensive IQ. The general physical, athletic and all around hustle levels are much higher in the NBA. So some of the qualities that make him desirable will be nullified IMO.
Love is undersized, and does not ooze defense out of his pores. We really need a defensive big man to pair with Hawes IMO, because Hawes is on the path to be a great offensive weapon with average defense.
Thabeet is 100% defense. He won't provide much offense unless properly developed, but who cares. It is good to have a player that doesn't demand the rock. And given that he has all of the physical skills, it is not out of the realm of possibility that he does develop a post game. Heck, Hawes could even teach him some moves out of his bag of tricks.
Plus, I just don't know if I can handle another 6'8 or 6'9 PF.
But really, Love just screams hustle player with a good offensive IQ. The general physical, athletic and all around hustle levels are much higher in the NBA. So some of the qualities that make him desirable will be nullified IMO.
Love is undersized, and does not ooze defense out of his pores. We really need a defensive big man to pair with Hawes IMO, because Hawes is on the path to be a great offensive weapon with average defense.
Thabeet is 100% defense. He won't provide much offense unless properly developed, but who cares. It is good to have a player that doesn't demand the rock. And given that he has all of the physical skills, it is not out of the realm of possibility that he does develop a post game. Heck, Hawes could even teach him some moves out of his bag of tricks.
Plus, I just don't know if I can handle another 6'8 or 6'9 PF.
Thabeet in the few games I have watched isn't the best defensively either. Reminds me of a player we just released who is good on the help D, but one on one can't stay in front of his player. Not sure if it's because 99% of the college centers out there are 6'10 and below and are just faster than he is or what.. Also, thabeet isn't taking any advantage of his height, and dominating the opposing 6'9 centers.
Love brings so much more to this team than Thabeet would, and I guarantee (signature bet??
) Love will be a better NBA player than Thabeet. Hibbert dominated Thabeet, the last game I saw against Villanova Pena (who is a 6'8 forward playing center) played Thabeet VERY well. I will not be sold on Thabeet until he plays well against a good opposing center.
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Meh.. We will have to disagree then. I will never be sold on a guy that can't play a lick of offense. Plus Petrie will not draft a guy that can't hold his own offensively. It's not his style. Williams (Shelden, and Justin) are perfect examples of rebounding, shot blocking PFs who aren't getting any time because they cannot play a lick of offense. Well Shelden can, but JW couldn't.
Thabeet in the few games I have watched isn't the best defensively either. Reminds me of a player we just released who is good on the help D, but one on one can't stay in front of his player. Not sure if it's because 99% of the college centers out there are 6'10 and below and are just faster than he is or what.. Also, thabeet isn't taking any advantage of his height, and dominating the opposing 6'9 centers.
Love brings so much more to this team than Thabeet would, and I guarantee (signature bet?? ) Love will be a better NBA player than Thabeet. Hibbert dominated Thabeet, the last game I saw against Villanova Pena (who is a 6'8 forward playing center) played Thabeet VERY well. I will not be sold on Thabeet until he plays well against a good opposing center.
Thabeet in the few games I have watched isn't the best defensively either. Reminds me of a player we just released who is good on the help D, but one on one can't stay in front of his player. Not sure if it's because 99% of the college centers out there are 6'10 and below and are just faster than he is or what.. Also, thabeet isn't taking any advantage of his height, and dominating the opposing 6'9 centers.
Love brings so much more to this team than Thabeet would, and I guarantee (signature bet??
) Love will be a better NBA player than Thabeet. Hibbert dominated Thabeet, the last game I saw against Villanova Pena (who is a 6'8 forward playing center) played Thabeet VERY well. I will not be sold on Thabeet until he plays well against a good opposing center.
Defensively yah.. Rather than him being compared to a Mutumbo that everyone seems to I would probably put him in the potential NBA player level as Dalembert. That's if he improves his one on one D. I don't see a reason he can't though because players are bigger, and might be easier to guard than a 6'7 200lbs center which a lot of teams throw at him right now.
The only issue I have with Thabeet is that he has not stepped up against good competition. It seems when a big game comes along we see a stat line of like 4pts 5rbds 2blks in 30 minutes. That wont cut it in the NBA.
Love on the other hand is a rebounding machine who can hit open 17ft shots, and has stepped up when it counts against good teams.. I would compare him (from what I have seen so far) to a rich mans David Lee with a better offensive game, and higher potential cap.
Keep in mind I have seen Thabeet a couple times last year, and only 2-3 times this year.. Love I have seen a lot of.
I would rank the Pac-10, and the Big East about the same in toughness so the below stats are about the same strength of schedule.
Kevin Love;
16 double doubles -
(4) 15+ rebound games -
double digit scoring in every game -
Never fouled out, and has only once committed 4 fouls in a game -
Has only 3 games where he hasn't had an assist this year, and has great passing ability -
one of the primary offensive threats on his team and post player, yet averages only 2 turnovers per game (great for a post player). -
Hasheem Thabeet;
6 double doubles -
(4) 15+ rebound games -
double digit scoring in less than half the games he's played in this season -
has had 4+ fouls 5 times this season -
Not a good ball handler, and cannot pass the ball very well. -
Not known for offense and is not a primary offensive player yet has about 2 turnovers per game -
Bottom line is Thabeet is raw, and although talented we have no idea whether he will turn into a Dalembert/Mutumbo, or if he will turn into a Diop, Petro, Sene, or whoever was the same "raw" type player with potential.
With Love you have a player who in his FRESHMEN year has proven he can play in arguably the best division in college BBall, and can put up points, rebounds, assists, and can play in the post, or bring the ball out and shoot.
The ceiling is higher with Thabeet, but you get a thoroughbred with Love.
The only issue I have with Thabeet is that he has not stepped up against good competition. It seems when a big game comes along we see a stat line of like 4pts 5rbds 2blks in 30 minutes. That wont cut it in the NBA.
Love on the other hand is a rebounding machine who can hit open 17ft shots, and has stepped up when it counts against good teams.. I would compare him (from what I have seen so far) to a rich mans David Lee with a better offensive game, and higher potential cap.
Keep in mind I have seen Thabeet a couple times last year, and only 2-3 times this year.. Love I have seen a lot of.
I would rank the Pac-10, and the Big East about the same in toughness so the below stats are about the same strength of schedule.
Kevin Love;
16 double doubles -
(4) 15+ rebound games -
double digit scoring in every game -
Never fouled out, and has only once committed 4 fouls in a game -
Has only 3 games where he hasn't had an assist this year, and has great passing ability -
one of the primary offensive threats on his team and post player, yet averages only 2 turnovers per game (great for a post player). -
Hasheem Thabeet;
6 double doubles -
(4) 15+ rebound games -
double digit scoring in less than half the games he's played in this season -
has had 4+ fouls 5 times this season -
Not a good ball handler, and cannot pass the ball very well. -
Not known for offense and is not a primary offensive player yet has about 2 turnovers per game -
Bottom line is Thabeet is raw, and although talented we have no idea whether he will turn into a Dalembert/Mutumbo, or if he will turn into a Diop, Petro, Sene, or whoever was the same "raw" type player with potential.
With Love you have a player who in his FRESHMEN year has proven he can play in arguably the best division in college BBall, and can put up points, rebounds, assists, and can play in the post, or bring the ball out and shoot.
The ceiling is higher with Thabeet, but you get a thoroughbred with Love.
I haven't seen them mentioned a lot here (probably because they're both just starting to gather buzz and most Kings fans are on the west coast), but keep an eye out for Marreese Speights of Florida and Anthony Randolph of LSU. I think you're going to be hearing a lot more about both of those guys come draft time. Depending on how they perform in March and draft workouts, I think both of these guys could move up into the top half of the lottery -- and both could be ideal PF pickups for us if they're still available.
Well Gary, since you cherry picked those stats, allow me to fill in what I think is the most important comparison between the two guys.
Love:
Games with more than 2 blocks: 3
Games with more than 4 blocks: 0
Thabeet:
Games with more than 2 blocks: 22
Games with more than 4 blocks: 13
Besides the first game of this year, when Thabeet averages 2 or less blocks, he gets more than 10 pts., so I don't know where you come out with the 4/5/2 games in 30 min. for "big games". You made those stats up and I have to call you on it. Since you have brought it to that point, I am going to just back off, because you really are sold on Love. But for the record, Thabeet hasn't had any games like that this year.
That said, I will end this with a couple questions and an official comparison per nbadraft.net.
-Do we really need 5 starters that can knock down the 17 footer?
-Do we really want a guy that can't even defend the paint at the college level?
Kevin Love/Hasheem Thabeet
Athleticism: 8/9
Size: 8/10
Defense: 6/10
Strength: 9/7
Quickness: 5/8
Leadership: 8/7
Jump Shot: 9/7
NBA Ready: 8/7
Rebounding: 7/9
Potential: 8/9
Post Skills: 9/6
Intangibles: 8/8
OVERALL: 93/97
These guys get paid to evaluate college talent.
http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/kevinlove.html
http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/hasheemthabeet.html
* I thought the interesting comparison was rebounding. The scouts seem to think he is a better rebounder, or will be at the next level.
I won't deny the prospect of Kevin Love, I just don't think he fits what the Kings need or want for the future.
Love:
Games with more than 2 blocks: 3
Games with more than 4 blocks: 0
Thabeet:
Games with more than 2 blocks: 22
Games with more than 4 blocks: 13
Besides the first game of this year, when Thabeet averages 2 or less blocks, he gets more than 10 pts., so I don't know where you come out with the 4/5/2 games in 30 min. for "big games". You made those stats up and I have to call you on it. Since you have brought it to that point, I am going to just back off, because you really are sold on Love. But for the record, Thabeet hasn't had any games like that this year.
That said, I will end this with a couple questions and an official comparison per nbadraft.net.
-Do we really need 5 starters that can knock down the 17 footer?
-Do we really want a guy that can't even defend the paint at the college level?
Kevin Love/Hasheem Thabeet
Athleticism: 8/9
Size: 8/10
Defense: 6/10
Strength: 9/7
Quickness: 5/8
Leadership: 8/7
Jump Shot: 9/7
NBA Ready: 8/7
Rebounding: 7/9
Potential: 8/9
Post Skills: 9/6
Intangibles: 8/8
OVERALL: 93/97
These guys get paid to evaluate college talent.
http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/kevinlove.html
http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/hasheemthabeet.html
* I thought the interesting comparison was rebounding. The scouts seem to think he is a better rebounder, or will be at the next level.
I won't deny the prospect of Kevin Love, I just don't think he fits what the Kings need or want for the future.
Who says Thabeet is a defensive juggernaut (10 out of 10?)? He isn't that great one v one. His man always gets around him... Even Hibbert got around him at will, and he is as slow as molasses. (one of his games I got to watch)
You are pointing out a lot of things we have already, but do not use because of the lack of an offensive game. Blocked shots don't mean much on this team when Petrie runs the show. Sorry to say that but it's true. JW wouldn't have been ditched, and SW would get time if that were the case.
In the last two years I have seen maybe 5 of Thabeets games, and I was unimpressed on how lost he looked on the floor.
In the last year I have seen about 6-8 of Love's games, and he is a beast. VERY impressive, and in just as good of conference as Thabeet.
There are players like Cedric Simmons, Josh Boone (gets time because nobody else available), Hilton Armstrong, Saer Sene, Shelden Williams (although I still like his game), Joakim Noah (should be a 10/10 guy), Channing Frye, Johan Petro, Brandan Wright, and many many more...
Guys that have succeeded with that "raw" tag are guys like Horford, Bynum, and probably Oden (I will put his name in the succeed list because we know he will)
The only time the above players get time is when the team has no other option. All of these players were "raw" offensively or "still developing".. I think you need to be AMAZING defensively in order to make it in the NBA if you have no offensive game to speak of. There were quite a few players with that "raw" tag I didn't mention who aren't in the league anymore, or who never got the chance, but I only went back to 2005.
That's why I think Petrie will go with a guy that can handle the ball. I wouldn't put too much into that 1-10 rating system.
Post skills rated Thabeet at a 6??? Thabeet has nothing other than dunking ability.. More like a 3. Ever watch him play? they don't pass him the ball when he is outside of 3 feet from the hoop for a reason. Athleticism is way off too for Love. He's more like a 6. Defense Thabeet is more like a 7.. In the stats that matter Thabeet loses to Love. Plus I am not even sure why we would draft Thabeet when we have Hawes. Hawes is not a full time 4. Unless we want to cancel out Thabeet's so called "defensive skills" with Hawes inability to guard a 4.
Dunno man.. You will never convince me that drafting Thabeet, and moving Hawes to 4 is a better move than drafting Love, and keeping Hawes at 5.
You are pointing out a lot of things we have already, but do not use because of the lack of an offensive game. Blocked shots don't mean much on this team when Petrie runs the show. Sorry to say that but it's true. JW wouldn't have been ditched, and SW would get time if that were the case.
In the last two years I have seen maybe 5 of Thabeets games, and I was unimpressed on how lost he looked on the floor.
In the last year I have seen about 6-8 of Love's games, and he is a beast. VERY impressive, and in just as good of conference as Thabeet.
There are players like Cedric Simmons, Josh Boone (gets time because nobody else available), Hilton Armstrong, Saer Sene, Shelden Williams (although I still like his game), Joakim Noah (should be a 10/10 guy), Channing Frye, Johan Petro, Brandan Wright, and many many more...
Guys that have succeeded with that "raw" tag are guys like Horford, Bynum, and probably Oden (I will put his name in the succeed list because we know he will)
The only time the above players get time is when the team has no other option. All of these players were "raw" offensively or "still developing".. I think you need to be AMAZING defensively in order to make it in the NBA if you have no offensive game to speak of. There were quite a few players with that "raw" tag I didn't mention who aren't in the league anymore, or who never got the chance, but I only went back to 2005.
That's why I think Petrie will go with a guy that can handle the ball. I wouldn't put too much into that 1-10 rating system.
Post skills rated Thabeet at a 6??? Thabeet has nothing other than dunking ability.. More like a 3. Ever watch him play? they don't pass him the ball when he is outside of 3 feet from the hoop for a reason. Athleticism is way off too for Love. He's more like a 6. Defense Thabeet is more like a 7.. In the stats that matter Thabeet loses to Love. Plus I am not even sure why we would draft Thabeet when we have Hawes. Hawes is not a full time 4. Unless we want to cancel out Thabeet's so called "defensive skills" with Hawes inability to guard a 4.
Dunno man.. You will never convince me that drafting Thabeet, and moving Hawes to 4 is a better move than drafting Love, and keeping Hawes at 5.
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Oh yah.. In the games I have seen Love has NOT been a defensive liability. I was able to catch the Michigan State game and he destroyed Goran Suton (decent prospect 6'10 245 frame). Caught both the USC win and loss, and he played against Taj Gibson, and outplayed him in the loss, but got outplayed by a hair in the win. Saw the Michigan game too where Love played well, and nobody on Michigan caught my eye against Love.
Forgot which other games I had caught, but I didn't catch the Washington game. Did he go up against Brockman? Anyhow, his defense isn't as bad as people say it is.
All I can say is I CAN'T WAIT FOR MARCH MADNESS! Hopefully we get some good matchups, and we see how well they do in games which are played close together and against good competition.
Forgot which other games I had caught, but I didn't catch the Washington game. Did he go up against Brockman? Anyhow, his defense isn't as bad as people say it is.
All I can say is I CAN'T WAIT FOR MARCH MADNESS!
Hopefully we get some good matchups, and we see how well they do in games which are played close together and against good competition.
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I'm not going to repeat everything you said Gary. I agree with most of it, except about Horford. He was a pretty polished post player coming out. Thabeet may turn out to be a pretty decent player, but it will take a while. I've seen him play 5 times this year and I saw him play three times last year. What disturbs me is I see little improvment from last year to this year. He is trying to develop a little hook shot, but he has a long way to go. He won't have the same size advantage in the NBA. Too many times the guy thats guarding him is 6'8 or 6'9.
I can't even remember how many times I've seen Love play. I can only remember one bad game. He doesn't do anything spectactular. I don't think he will ever be on a lot highlite reels. He's just very good at everything. I think calling him a rich mans David Lee is an good analagy. All things being equal, Thabeet will most certainly block more shots than Love, but I think Love will be equal or better in every other catagory.
I can't even remember how many times I've seen Love play. I can only remember one bad game. He doesn't do anything spectactular. I don't think he will ever be on a lot highlite reels. He's just very good at everything. I think calling him a rich mans David Lee is an good analagy. All things being equal, Thabeet will most certainly block more shots than Love, but I think Love will be equal or better in every other catagory.
The debate with me Bricky is not whether I would take Thabeet or Love with my pick, its which one of the two I would take if that was my only choice. There are other players I would take before either of them. I don't however think it would be as bad a picture as you paint. Love is a very aggressive player with a lot of skills. I would liken him to Larry Bird, not in skills, they were entirely two different types of players, but in court smarts. Bird, who was not the quickest player in the world, was a very good defender. He knew where you wanted to go on the floor and made you go the other way. He made you uncomfortable.
It is, my freind, a crap shoot, and the truth is, you just never know until you get them on the floor in the NBA. My whole pt is, that if we could back up the clock and and the choice was between Bird and Thabeet, I beleive that a lot of people would choose Thabeet.
It is, my freind, a crap shoot, and the truth is, you just never know until you get them on the floor in the NBA. My whole pt is, that if we could back up the clock and and the choice was between Bird and Thabeet, I beleive that a lot of people would choose Thabeet.
Bird was actually "not too bad" as a college player. I'm sure he would have been drafted well before Thabeet, unless you mean Thabeet would have been drafted last year for this year's draft.
I'm sure he would have been drafted well before Thabeet, unless you mean Thabeet would have been drafted last year for this year's draft.
By the way, anyone thats intersted in seeing Randoff play, Rider is playing at 4 o'clock today on espn U. My advice to most of you, is to forget about reading stats and actually see some of these prospects play. Being retired and living in baja with three satellite dishs I get to see a lot of games, and I know its harder for a lot of you to do the same. That is why they make recording machines though.
I think we should avoid Love. I mean, Miller, Hawes, and Love...we wouldn't want all of our big men to be of the same ilk--NBA ready frames with strength but no great athleticism, fundamentally sound offensive game with above average passing ability, average defense, but no shotblocking, at best. I know Hawes comes from the UCLA school of defensive expertise, but come on; his game is predicated around rebounding the basketball, passing the open shooters and hitting shots inside outside. That sounds awfully familiar where our team comes from.
Thabeet is more of a gamble, but with the potential payoff it could be worth it because he brings assets we need: 1) height, 2) a very nice foundation of shotblocking ability, 3) some rebounding. I know he's not the brightest bulb on the planet, nor the most vertically athletic (but he's relatively mobile, although a tad upright), but with the draft comes risks, and with risks you want to fulfill needs. I don't think he's going to become a superstar in this league, nor do I think he's going to be a super role player, but I do have expectations (with his height and natural gifts) to become a very solid defensive role player we can rely on, whether as a starter in due time or off the bench. His offense is far from NBA ready, but with two bigs (Hawes and Miller, and perhaps Williams) in front of him we can invest in a project.
Thabeet is more of a gamble, but with the potential payoff it could be worth it because he brings assets we need: 1) height, 2) a very nice foundation of shotblocking ability, 3) some rebounding. I know he's not the brightest bulb on the planet, nor the most vertically athletic (but he's relatively mobile, although a tad upright), but with the draft comes risks, and with risks you want to fulfill needs. I don't think he's going to become a superstar in this league, nor do I think he's going to be a super role player, but I do have expectations (with his height and natural gifts) to become a very solid defensive role player we can rely on, whether as a starter in due time or off the bench. His offense is far from NBA ready, but with two bigs (Hawes and Miller, and perhaps Williams) in front of him we can invest in a project.