Current Bonzi Status According to ESPN Insider + Kings Interested in Songaila?
- Thread starter reyes13
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You do know Garcia had to fly back to Sacto Saturday to have his foot x-rayed, don't you? I hope its not serious. Since he was back in LV today, I'm presuming it isn't too bad.
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/14276320p-15085716c.html
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/14276320p-15085716c.html
I agree with pretty much everything you've said Gary, especially A and B. I simply do not understand people who think that giving a 30 year old a five year contract is no big deal. Look around the league and at the number of 35 year old guards who are deserving of $9 Million. There just isn't that many. Also, K-Mart is ready to start. He doesn't need more seasoning off the bench. He's athletic, long, and a great shooter.
Go ahead and say we should worry about now, not five years down the road. Smart GMs take into account the future as well as the present. We now have three young, cheap, talented SG's. We have no rebounding/shotblocking big men and have a hole at backup PG. What makes more sense, adding another SG to the mix, or adding a defensive big man?
There are a lot of teams that want Bonzi...and at this point Bonzi is looking to get paid, nothing wrong with that. I believe Petrie can work a trade with someone and get a decent big. This way, everyone wins. Bonzi gets his money, and the Kings get their big man.
Go ahead and say we should worry about now, not five years down the road. Smart GMs take into account the future as well as the present. We now have three young, cheap, talented SG's. We have no rebounding/shotblocking big men and have a hole at backup PG. What makes more sense, adding another SG to the mix, or adding a defensive big man?
There are a lot of teams that want Bonzi...and at this point Bonzi is looking to get paid, nothing wrong with that. I believe Petrie can work a trade with someone and get a decent big. This way, everyone wins. Bonzi gets his money, and the Kings get their big man.
we don't know about douby just yet. he would barely get playing time under rick adelman until his 2nd year. i dont know how muss would utilize his rookies. i just keep thinking of dallas' rookies with daniels and howard that one year and they both played a whole lot their rookie year. douby seems like he's going to be awesome and i hope he gets more minutes than any kings rookie before as a 3rd string member, or comming of the bench if we lose bonzi
It's a 5 year deal. Bonzi will turn 30 just before the season starts and if you do the math he will be 34 at the end of his deal and we would be paying probably about 8.5 mill for that last year which may be a little above the mid-level by that time. I don't think it's a bad deal at all and the numbers are easily movable if we had to. Petrie is doing the right thing by offering more than any of his other suitors(mainly teams over the cap) can offer and If Bonzi wants more he will have to work out a sign and trade to make it work and we will get something in return.
Why can't you have Artest and three young players at the wing position and expect to make the playoffs? The Spurs won a title with a 19 year old starting PG a few years ago. The Bulls had about as much success in the playoffs as we did this past year and they are stocked full of young players at every position. Experience is nice to have, but it isn't a neccessity. Having one position where we are young surrounded by vets at every other spot is not a problem.
You're right -- having Artest and a gaggle of kids might be a way to win 45 games and sneak into the first round of the playoffs to be dismissed.
Now I'd like to ask you why the hell is that what you are shooting for? I mean I can see how you might be confused, seeing as those Heat, Mavs, Spurs, Pistons etc. are just loaded down with kid after kid, but really now.
Now I'd like to ask you why the hell is that what you are shooting for? I mean I can see how you might be confused, seeing as those Heat, Mavs, Spurs, Pistons etc. are just loaded down with kid after kid, but really now.
Sure, but the downside of doing that is you press us closer to the luxury tax in the early years and don't take advantage of the creeping advance of the salary cap offsetting the annual salary increases.
Barring a major chronic injury popping up, Bonzi will be fine this year at 30. He will be fine at 31. He will be fine at 32. By the time you start to worry about age slowing him down, the deal will almost be over and may actually have value as an ending contract should you want to move it.
Barring a major chronic injury popping up, Bonzi will be fine this year at 30. He will be fine at 31. He will be fine at 32. By the time you start to worry about age slowing him down, the deal will almost be over and may actually have value as an ending contract should you want to move it.
I want to shoot for a first-round playoff exit? Where did I say that? I think you might be the one who is confused...please read my post again.
Someone mentioned that if we want to make the playoffs, we can't play young players at the two without having some veterans. I simply used the Bulls as an analogy to show that you can play young guys at every position and still make a little noise in the playoffs. I never said we would be one and done in the first round and I would be happy with it. I don't see why having young shooting guards and then veterans at PG, SF, PF, and C limits how far you can go. I really don't...
Also, is Martin, Douby, and Garcia along with Artest, Miller, SAR, Bibby, Williamson, and all the other vets we have on the team really a "gaggle" of kids? Sorry, I think not...
Someone mentioned that if we want to make the playoffs, we can't play young players at the two without having some veterans. I simply used the Bulls as an analogy to show that you can play young guys at every position and still make a little noise in the playoffs. I never said we would be one and done in the first round and I would be happy with it. I don't see why having young shooting guards and then veterans at PG, SF, PF, and C limits how far you can go. I really don't...
Also, is Martin, Douby, and Garcia along with Artest, Miller, SAR, Bibby, Williamson, and all the other vets we have on the team really a "gaggle" of kids? Sorry, I think not...
He's right. You can have some youth and still succeed. Wade was only in his third year this year for the Heat. Prince was a rookie when the Pistons won the title. First Parker and then Manu were rookie/2nd year players when they won their first titles with the Spurs. The Mavericks were a few plays away this year from winning it all with Devin Harris, Josh Howard, DJ Mbenga, and Marquis Daniel's all factoring into their rotation.
Now we have holes that still need to be filled before we are an elite team, but the fact that we have Martin, Garcia and Douby in our rotation does not exclude us from championship discussions.
Now we have holes that still need to be filled before we are an elite team, but the fact that we have Martin, Garcia and Douby in our rotation does not exclude us from championship discussions.
I would rather have 45-50 wins this year, and 1st-2nd round playoffs, then the following year a 50-55 team contending for a WCF bid, and in 2008 have a young core of players winning 60 games a year contending for a championship.
With the guys on the floor last year (including Bonzi, and Artest) we were on pace for a 50 win year (had this team been together for the whole year). It's nothing to really celebrate. You cannot possibly believe we are contenders this year can you? Might as well be an exciting 50 win team and out in the 1st or 2nd round for the next couple years than a 50 win team that just keeps getting older and older with a bunch of kids that didn't get to play. BTW, We do have Artest, Bibby, SAR, and Miller on the team. It's not just a bunch of Kids. Plus Martin is in his third year. Much older than guys that started for teams that won it all.
Take Dallas for example. Remember a couple years ago when they had those two young guys, and we bounced them out of the playoffs? Well those kids were given the chance to play year after year, and now look at Dallas. They are contenders.
With the guys on the floor last year (including Bonzi, and Artest) we were on pace for a 50 win year (had this team been together for the whole year). It's nothing to really celebrate. You cannot possibly believe we are contenders this year can you? Might as well be an exciting 50 win team and out in the 1st or 2nd round for the next couple years than a 50 win team that just keeps getting older and older with a bunch of kids that didn't get to play. BTW, We do have Artest, Bibby, SAR, and Miller on the team. It's not just a bunch of Kids. Plus Martin is in his third year. Much older than guys that started for teams that won it all.
Take Dallas for example. Remember a couple years ago when they had those two young guys, and we bounced them out of the playoffs? Well those kids were given the chance to play year after year, and now look at Dallas. They are contenders.
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Well you can't just blead talent like that. You have to atleast get something back in a S&T. You know Artest and the Maloofs want to win, so you should try as hard as you can to win. The reason Dallas was in the finals is because Avery is better than Nellie and Dirk kept improving. Also their D improved. Yeah Josh Howard had a big part in it and he's a good player but Daniels didn't even play much in the finals even though he's a good player. I mean call me crazy but if we made a big enough move I think we can contend. Look at the Heat with Shaq.
Well I certainly don't think we are EVER going to be anything more than a 50 win team again if we keep letting tough veteran studs walk out the door so we can dedicate ourselves fulltime to the rookie delusional hardon of the week.
Because yes, obviously our young corps of players will be title worthy -- I mean how could they not be? I mean, we've got guys who averaged 13ppg on 40% shooting the playoffs, guys who averaged all of 5pts on 40% shotoing in the regular season, 6'3" skinny rookie OGs tryign to learn to play PG comepting against undrafted small school OGs trying to do the same, undrafted 6'7" summer camp invite "big" men. I mean we are RIGHT THERE. Screw lottery picks, elite talent, star players, whatnot, we've got the flav of the week!
Do you even have any concept of how ridiculous a leap you are taking there?
On the one side I've got a longtime major OG who has scored 15+ppg in hsi career, played on great teams, including a WCF team, and just got done dominating one of the 2 or 3 best teams in the league a couple of months ago. The single best player on the team for us before Ron arrived.
On the other side you've got your choice of a pile of skinny kids of the week -- whichever one catches your fancy most recently -- none of whom have ever won anything at the pro level, let alone dominated some of the best in the game.
But hey, B) is definitely the way to go to get that title.
Because yes, obviously our young corps of players will be title worthy -- I mean how could they not be? I mean, we've got guys who averaged 13ppg on 40% shooting the playoffs, guys who averaged all of 5pts on 40% shotoing in the regular season, 6'3" skinny rookie OGs tryign to learn to play PG comepting against undrafted small school OGs trying to do the same, undrafted 6'7" summer camp invite "big" men. I mean we are RIGHT THERE. Screw lottery picks, elite talent, star players, whatnot, we've got the flav of the week!
Do you even have any concept of how ridiculous a leap you are taking there?
On the one side I've got a longtime major OG who has scored 15+ppg in hsi career, played on great teams, including a WCF team, and just got done dominating one of the 2 or 3 best teams in the league a couple of months ago. The single best player on the team for us before Ron arrived.
On the other side you've got your choice of a pile of skinny kids of the week -- whichever one catches your fancy most recently -- none of whom have ever won anything at the pro level, let alone dominated some of the best in the game.
But hey, B) is definitely the way to go to get that title.
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I just think a team like us should have a veteran wing player somewhere on the roster to replace Bonzi's experience. Because incase any of the young players go through a bad stretch or isn't playing well or down on himself, etc. especially in the playoffs. As that's always something that can happen with young players. So it'd be good to have a veteran to turn to in any of those situations, and aside from that, good to have the experience there in general.
I wouldn't be disappointed if we don't get a vet. if Bonzi's gone, just would have to count on the young players to step up and play mostly consistent basketball for the year, and hope they don't run into those aforementioned problems much. Be interesting as well.
Parker w/ the Spurs was a different situation, indeed.
I wouldn't be disappointed if we don't get a vet. if Bonzi's gone, just would have to count on the young players to step up and play mostly consistent basketball for the year, and hope they don't run into those aforementioned problems much. Be interesting as well.
Parker w/ the Spurs was a different situation, indeed.
Can NOT win a title with Miller at C and Rahim/Thomas PF. Just as we could NOT win a title with Miller at C and Webber at PF (such as he is).
It seems a waste of time to ignore this reality. Just a matter of talent on the front line and the fact that it is impossible to win without exceptional big guys.
Please just fix the problem. Even if it means Bibby.
It seems a waste of time to ignore this reality. Just a matter of talent on the front line and the fact that it is impossible to win without exceptional big guys.
Please just fix the problem. Even if it means Bibby.
There are two assumptions being made here:
1) The aging vets we currently have are going to be completely broken down and useless within five years
2) The young'ns we've got waiting in the wings are future hall of famers waiting for the opportunity to tear up the league
Since neither of these is likely true, seems like a whole lot of nothing to be freaking out about.
Ultimately, logic says you don't let a tough 29-year-old player walk away for nothing. Especially not after how much he contributed over last season. Sign and trade if you have to, keep him if you can, but don't wave goodbye on the hope that you've got something special waiting to take his place.
Besides, where is it written that a five year contract means that said player will be with the team for the entire five years? Regardless where you stand on the Webber trade, if nothing else, it shows us that no one is untradeable. We "got rid" of Webber's bum knee, and Philly got rid of Kenny's horrible contract. It can happen.
1) The aging vets we currently have are going to be completely broken down and useless within five years
2) The young'ns we've got waiting in the wings are future hall of famers waiting for the opportunity to tear up the league
Since neither of these is likely true, seems like a whole lot of nothing to be freaking out about.
Ultimately, logic says you don't let a tough 29-year-old player walk away for nothing. Especially not after how much he contributed over last season. Sign and trade if you have to, keep him if you can, but don't wave goodbye on the hope that you've got something special waiting to take his place.
Besides, where is it written that a five year contract means that said player will be with the team for the entire five years? Regardless where you stand on the Webber trade, if nothing else, it shows us that no one is untradeable. We "got rid" of Webber's bum knee, and Philly got rid of Kenny's horrible contract. It can happen.
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Actually Gary I see where you are going with this, and I actually agree. Developing the young guys is essential in this league. Kevin might of only shot .407 and had 13 pts, but he HIT A GAME WINNER, and if he didn't we would of been down 0-3 against "some of the best in the league." On top of that Kevin outrebounded Brad by 2 rebounds a game, and shot better% than Ron, Bibby, Miller, Corliss, Hart, and all the other established NBA vets on our team. All I am saying is that just because a person is young doesn't mean they can't dominate, and just because a person is a Vet doesn't mean they will be any more productive than the young guy. For years we let young talent rot on the bench in favor of established vets for our annual title run, and came up short. How about we give douby a shot, and stop making jokes about his weight. Baren Davis is thick and burly for a pg, but guess what he breaks down every freaking year, so tell me the correlation between being skinny, and not being reliable/productive.
You did NOT just compare Douby to Baron Davis!?
Man, the delusion runs thick sometimes.
As an aside, Kevin's 13ppg on 40% shooting was actually a respectable showing for the kid. We can set aside the gamewinner nonsense -- nice play, but hardly indicative of anything. The probelm comes not from Kevin sucking but from Kevin jockers losing absolutley all perspective on what it means. Let alone now Douby jockers? You gotta be kidding me. Nice kids maybe. Be in the league awhile. But the gulf between them and the Dwayne Wade's of the league is vast beyond measure at this point, and is VERY likely to remain so. Classic flav of the month stuff. Whoever is new and neat is now automatically some amazing superstud. Its like boy band mentality.
Man, the delusion runs thick sometimes.
As an aside, Kevin's 13ppg on 40% shooting was actually a respectable showing for the kid. We can set aside the gamewinner nonsense -- nice play, but hardly indicative of anything. The probelm comes not from Kevin sucking but from Kevin jockers losing absolutley all perspective on what it means. Let alone now Douby jockers? You gotta be kidding me. Nice kids maybe. Be in the league awhile. But the gulf between them and the Dwayne Wade's of the league is vast beyond measure at this point, and is VERY likely to remain so. Classic flav of the month stuff. Whoever is new and neat is now automatically some amazing superstud. Its like boy band mentality.
I will admit Brick I was waiting for your response, because I knew you would spew it. Reread my previous post nowhere did I say Douby is as good as Baron, I was comparing their body types, and stating just because somebody is a little heavier doesn't mean they are any more reliable, since you love to poke fun at doubys weight.
The gamewinner nonsense? So I guess that play didn't change the complexity of the series, or atleast give us some life did it? I mean 0-3 is better than 2-1 right? Kevin Jockers, Douby jockers? What the heck are you even talking about. I listed his stats in comparison to THE VETS, and let you know he was more productive then them, how presenting stats to show my case is jocking I will never know. Did you ever hear me say Kevin is the next dwayne wade? NOPE! So enough of your nonsense. I said give Douby a shot b4 putting him down, and poking fun at his weight, but wait I guess that means I jock him 2, and I think he is the next Dwayne wade also.
The gamewinner nonsense? So I guess that play didn't change the complexity of the series, or atleast give us some life did it? I mean 0-3 is better than 2-1 right? Kevin Jockers, Douby jockers? What the heck are you even talking about. I listed his stats in comparison to THE VETS, and let you know he was more productive then them, how presenting stats to show my case is jocking I will never know. Did you ever hear me say Kevin is the next dwayne wade? NOPE! So enough of your nonsense. I said give Douby a shot b4 putting him down, and poking fun at his weight, but wait I guess that means I jock him 2, and I think he is the next Dwayne wade also.
By the way Look at Kevins year 1 to year 2 improvement, and lastly look at Kevins stats as a starter. He has proven he can play in this game, whether or not you want to agree with that is up to you. 15pts, 5rbs, 38% from 3, and close to 50% from the field as a start shows Kevin can play in this league. I believe the Kings went undefeated when Kevin scored 20 plus points like 14-0 or something really close to that.
You seem confused. Again.
The problem with Douby's weight is not necessarily in durability. Although that could certainly be a problem too. It is in strength. Musclepower. He has none. In the NBA every single OG in the league, including our own former much taller stickman Kevin, will run right through him and over him like he doesn;t even exist. Anyone with a post game will destroy him inside. Heaven forbid Bonzi go elsewhere and Douby ever ends up checking him. And when he drives past his man the least little hip or chest bounce is going to send him flying off course. He is too WEAK to be an NBA OG. Now if he were at least tall, you could talk about him maybe one day filling out and trying to play an athletic game playing above the stronger guys. But he's not. He's short AND weak, lethal combo for an NBA OG. Nobody said anything about durability, nor does anyone rational sit around and make a straw man out of it. Nudge me the next time you hear somebody say about a late pcik that ooh -- he's durable. THAT'S why we want him.
There is a reason Bobby Jackson could wing between the guard spots. He was, for his size, strong as an ox and fearless to boot. Douby is not. Thus he needs to be able to develop PG skills which he does not currently have so that he can match up with players closer to his size and strength rather then Kobe, Wade, Richardson, Bonzi and a host of others.
13.7pts 4.7reb 1.8ast 0.9stl 0.2blk 1.4TO and 51% shooting actually. No idea what #s you are looking at. Low level starter numbers. And if we were a young team like Orlando and the choice was between starting Kevin next year or starting Deshawn Stevenson, I'll take Kevin. We are not.
And the great 20pt boondoogle. More sloppy thinking. Could likely be said about numerous unexpected contributors -- if all of a sudden a guy who does not score 20ppg jumps up and scores 20ppg that's probably a good sign for you. Its as compeltely beside the issue as the gamewinner was. Flashy stats for dummies. The question isn't whetehr we do good if Kevin scores 20. Its how often is he going to score 20? It isn't oh can he hit a running gamewinner once in a blue moon in the playoffs, its can he be an impact guy game in and game out in the playoffs so that that gamewinner actually matters? At least those are the issues for those of us pondering making a serious run with this team. And jock all you want -- never seen one player actually get better just because his jockers yap him up incessantly -- but the answers to those questions need more time.
And the great 20pt boondoogle. More sloppy thinking. Could likely be said about numerous unexpected contributors -- if all of a sudden a guy who does not score 20ppg jumps up and scores 20ppg that's probably a good sign for you. Its as compeltely beside the issue as the gamewinner was. Flashy stats for dummies. The question isn't whetehr we do good if Kevin scores 20. Its how often is he going to score 20? It isn't oh can he hit a running gamewinner once in a blue moon in the playoffs, its can he be an impact guy game in and game out in the playoffs so that that gamewinner actually matters? At least those are the issues for those of us pondering making a serious run with this team. And jock all you want -- never seen one player actually get better just because his jockers yap him up incessantly -- but the answers to those questions need more time.
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