The Harry Giles option conundrum

[Joshoua]

It still comes down to the fact for me that the Kings did Giles a favor in not exercising the option dramatically increasing his short term earning potential as long as he stays healthy. Assuming both sides had this conversation ahead of time this is a huge win for everyone involved and leaving the team for a few dollars more on the front end would be the ultimate FU to the team that believed in you, rehabbed you with no pressure and full pay, and just gave you full control of your destiny 4 years ahead of schedule. I guess in a vacuum there'd be no consequence to doing so and you'd be richer and hahaha. Mercenary. Player Agency! Go Giles!

Except that this would potentially cause great harm to Barnes and Bagley as well. Whether that be negotiating future contracts with the Kings or avoiding a trade that is bad for the player but good for the team down the road, it's pretty safe to say all bets would be off for anyone represented by this agent.

So in my mind, the only question is whether everyone got together ahead of the decision on the option and agreed on a best course. We will know in July.

I’ll never understand this , why would the kings decide to loose control of a young player at the cheapest price porssible. And why would Giles sign for 3.9 mill when he can get 7.5 mill,what idiot turns down half they pay from another team cause someone did you a solid.

The agent angle is overplayed as well, his agent does what’s best for Giles. Not what’s best for Giles/Bagley/Barnes.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The agent angle is overplayed as well, his agent does what’s best for Giles. Not what’s best for Giles/Bagley/Barnes.

You're wrong. The agent does what is best for the agent.

And like I have said, I will bring out the pitch forks in July if it becomes clear we get outbid for the services of someone we controlled. But I know it's pretty pointless to spend 8 months bemoaning something that hasn't and may not even happen.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

You're wrong. The agent does what is best for the agent.

And like I have said, I will bring out the pitch forks in July if it becomes clear we get outbid for the services of someone we controlled. But I know it's pretty pointless to spend 8 months bemoaning something that hasn't and may not even happen.

Truer words...

 

[ockingsfan]

IIRC there have been multiple occasions when rotational players have failed physicals... Not that I think it would happen, but it could... maybe...

This may be the Kings angle also. They are the only ones who have seen Giles MRI's and maybe they are gambling that no one will give Giles a big money, long term contract (i.e. 3 or more years) after they take a look at his physical and MRI tests. A team may give HG a nice contract offer and after the physical and MRIs, change the contract offer to 1 or 2 year, instead of 3 or 4.

Same thing happened to DeJuan Blair with the Spurs. He played lights out for the Spurs and was a spot starter, but he never got any big money, long term contracts, because he had such a bad knee injury history.

The Kings may be angling that they are the ones that know Harry's body the best and would be in the best position to make sure HG has a longer and productive career.

I think this and having Bird rights earlier than anyone else trying to sign him, may give the Kings a fighters chance of keeping HG this summer and beyond.

 

[L'Optimisme]

(Not sure if this was posted)
I was gonna make a new thread but since we already have multiple threads dedicated to Harry and this one specifically is his appreciation thread. I'd like to post this here.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1234297568479211520

How do you not love this man?

We stood by him as soon as he was drafted, and throughout a whole-season rehab, seeing bits and pieces of his performance during the summer league in Vegas, the few minutes here and there during his 2nd "rookie" season, obviously understandably that his trade value at that time coming out of two major knee surgery was low...

but our faith in him really never wavered (which can't be said in some other rookie's cases but I digress...)

I understand that everyone loves a comeback story. Love to root for the underdog. So it's easier rooting for him than the ones who had to prove himself right off the bat. He went through the highest of the high when he was younger being considered the number one recruit of the nation, to devastating injuries that had retired stronger and better players before... if he is to leave for whatever reason after the next 20 some games, it is because we don't deserve him, for he chose a better situation for himself, which I can't hate on.

We love Harry 100% from the get-go and I don't think there was anyone in the fan base throughout this whole journey who'd even considered letting him go.

(Okay... I was just getting a little emotional... I wish the Sacramento Kings that I once fell in love with watching J-Will and C-Webb are more competent. But it is what it is. I can choose to mope and whine about it, leave before the going ain't too bad, or just accept that my old hometown team is just too deep in my whole being and hope for the best)

We better match any offer he gets. I hope this was the plan all along as a way to pay him what he's worth. He's a special player.

 

[Dime Dropper]

We better match any offer he gets. I hope this was the plan all along as a way to pay him what he's worth. He's a special player.

It's not possible for us to match any offer he gets. That's why people are upset. It was another terrible decision by the front office that will likely end up with Giles on another team next year. If we manage to keep him, it will be in spite of our decision making, not because of it.

 

[L'Optimisme]

It's not possible for us to match any offer he gets. That's why people are upset. It was another terrible decision by the front office that will likely end up with Giles on another team next year. If we manage to keep him, it will be in spite of our decision making, not because of it.

I'm not familiar with all the exact rules on that... can you summarize for me?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I'm not familiar with all the exact rules on that... can you summarize for me?

Here is a brief explanation:

https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/the-harry-giles-option-conundrum.72882/page-5#post-1495643

We can't sign him to a deal that starts any higher than $4M next season.

 

[SLAB]

I'm not familiar with all the exact rules on that... can you summarize for me?

Someone else can nail it down better, but since Vlade declined his 4th year option for 4 million rules say we can’t sign him for anything more annually. I believe people are hoping there’s a “handshake/under the table/behind the scenes” talk of a 2 year deal following the season (with player option after one) where we can give him a bigger payday after he performs again next season.

 

[Kingster]

.

Someone else can nail it down better, but since Vlade declined his 4th year option for 4 million rules say we can’t sign him for anything more annually. I believe people are hoping there’s a “handshake/under the table/behind the scenes” talk of a 2 year deal following the season (with player option after one) where we can give him a bigger payday after he performs again next season.

You can sign him for a little bit more than the $4 mill. I don't know how much more. At this point I'm not too concerned. This board was awash in WCS getting $12 - $15 mill/year and that didn't turn out too well. Centers without 3 point range aren't exactly in big demand right now in the NBA. His injury history is also going to factor into any money that is offered. You'd probably have to discount by at least 20% just because of the injury factor.

 

[SLAB]

.
You can sign him for a little bit more than the $4 mill. I don't know how much more. At this point I'm not too concerned. This board was awash in WCS getting $12 - $15 mill/year and that didn't turn out too well. Centers without 3 point range aren't exactly in big demand right now in the NBA. His injury history is also going to factor into any money that is offered. You'd probably have to discount by at least 20% just because of the injury factor.

I think it was a vocal minority that thought Willie would get his bags, but I get what you’re saying. Hope it works out that way!

 

[Capt. Factorial]

You can sign him for a little bit more than the $4 mill. I don't know how much more.

No, for the Kings that value is actually a bit less than $4M. It is the value of the option we did not pick up, which I believe is $3,976,510 but most sites have deleted that information by now so I'm not certain. But that value is definitely in the ballpark of what it was, and it was definitely just short of $4M.

 

[Section 101]

.


You can sign him for a little bit more than the $4 mill. I don't know how much more. At this point I'm not too concerned. This board was awash in WCS getting $12 - $15 mill/year and that didn't turn out too well. Centers without 3 point range aren't exactly in big demand right now in the NBA. His injury history is also going to factor into any money that is offered. You'd probably have to discount by at least 20% just because of the injury factor.

WCS was a 25 year old 3 year college and 4 years in the nba. No fire and really never improved on anything. He reached his ceiling.

Giles is 22 years old and only getting better.

 

[burekijogurt]

here is a question, if the reports of him being out of shape in training camp are true, would the Giles we are seeing now be here without the option being declined?

 

[Kingster]

WCS was a 25 year old 3 year college and 4 years in the nba. No fire and really never improved on anything. He reached his ceiling.

Giles is 22 years old and only getting better.

So if Giles is 4x better than WCS, no problem.

 

[Kingster]

No, for the Kings that value is actually a bit less than $4M. It is the value of the option we did not pick up, which I believe is $3,976,510 but most sites have deleted that information by now so I'm not certain. But that value is definitely in the ballpark of what it was, and it was definitely just short of $4M.

I heard from Naps it is a little more than $4 mill. Call it $4 mill, for conservative estimation purposes.

 

[SLAB]

here is a question, if the reports of him being out of shape in training camp are true, would the Giles we are seeing now be here without the option being declined?

People have their sources and whatever, but I straight up don’t even believe he was out of shape. By every account he’s an unbelievably hard worker.

Maybe hurt/upset he followed a different workout regiment? That I can see.

 

[The Effort Police]

WCS was also a minute away from signing with Charlotte for $9 million a year until he decided to bet on revitalizing his career with Golden State.

All it takes is one team.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Has Charlotte actually confirmed the WCS story? Because knowing what a malcontent Willie is I actually find it extremely hard to believe.

Also - if it's true, I guess players might not only take the high offer hmmmm.

 

[HndsmCelt]

The thing about criticizing Vladie for not picking up Harry's option is that and it's hard you have to know it's the wisdom of Vladie drafting him as low as he did in the first place. I recognize that there is a bad number crunch that may occur next season in the effort to sign some of the talent that has been collected, but if that's your complaint then you need to recognize the talent was collected in the first place. I'm not out here as Vladie's biggest supporter or anything like that just trying to be fair.

 

[ockingsfan]

Has Charlotte actually confirmed the WCS story? Because knowing what a malcontent Willie is I actually find it extremely hard to believe.

Also - if it's true, I guess players might not only take the high offer hmmmm.

Good point. Fit maybe most important for HG going into next season. He knows he has a solid place in the rotation with Luke. If he goes to Charlotte or anywhere else, he is going to be fighting for a spot in the rotation again.

I would dare say that his next contract (after the 2021 or 2022 season) would be more valuable to HG's financial security, more so than any contract that would be offered by any team to him this summer. Making sure he has a standout situation for next season to shine will help him secure his financial future, more so than a couple extra millions in a 1 or 2 year deal this summer.

It's a case of if HG is going to bet on himself this summer. If he does, the Kings have a chance to re-sign him.

 

[HebrewHammer]

Good point. Fit maybe most important for HG going into next season. He knows he has a solid place in the rotation with Luke. If he goes to Charlotte or anywhere else, he is going to be fighting for a spot in the rotation again.

I would dare say that his next contract (after the 2021 or 2022 season) would be more valuable to HG's financial security, more so than any contract that would be offered by any team to him this summer. Making sure he has a standout situation for next season to shine will help him secure his financial future, more so than a couple extra millions in a 1 or 2 year deal this summer.

It's a case of if HG is going to bet on himself this summer. If he does, the Kings have a chance to re-sign him.

If Len comes back, and Holmes and Bagley are healthy, this is the place he is going to bet on himself?
I doubt it.

 

[Sluggah]

This is one of those ‘hope for the best, prepare for the worst’ type situations...but I’m not seeing a lot of preparing in this thread.

I don’t wanna be looking up suicide hotlines for some of y’all in two months.

 

[miltonap]

Giles is staying . that's my prediction.

Another poster mentioned it but I think its a legit possibility he came to camp out of shape or he didn't follow the off season protocol the team laid out for him.

In turn I think the FO felt kind of disrespected after investing 2 years in the kid, and decided not to pick up the option for accountability reasons more than anything.

Stupid ? Maybe, but I can understand this logic especially with the heavy stress and culture and accountability and whatnot.

FO and Harry probably talked it out and are on good terms.

I dont think anyone planned this situation I really don't think Harry was supposed to play I think he was going to remain in the doghouse in a kind of prove it role but injuries forced the coach's hand.

I also think the guy loves Sacramento, he seems like a hard working guy.

I think hes going to stay for the above reasons.

 

[L'Optimisme]

Here is a brief explanation:

https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/the-harry-giles-option-conundrum.72882/page-5#post-1495643

We can't sign him to a deal that starts any higher than $4M next season.

So we can back load a contract, say three years, but only start at 4M, then limited by a % increase of whatever, say 20% per year. I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this absolutely OBVIOUSLY ATROCIOUS (yes, even at the time, not even talking retrospect) decision.

It's these types of things that deflate my fanhood more than anything else. I can take bad signings. I can take bad trades. What I cannot take is disloyalty, idiotic disloyalty, to a totally hard working straight up kid who did everything right and every single casual fan could see the loads of potential. I almost just want to see Harry blow up somewhere else just as an eff u to the Kings FO.

 

[L'Optimisme]

Giles is staying . that's my prediction.

Another poster mentioned it but I think its a legit possibility he came to camp out of shape or he didn't follow the off season protocol the team laid out for him.

In turn I think the FO felt kind of disrespected after investing 2 years in the kid, and decided not to pick up the option for accountability reasons more than anything.

Stupid ? Maybe, but I can understand this logic especially with the heavy stress and culture and accountability and whatnot.

FO and Harry probably talked it out and are on good terms.

I dont think anyone planned this situation I really don't think Harry was supposed to play I think he was going to remain in the doghouse in a kind of prove it role but injuries forced the coach's hand.

I also think the guy loves Sacramento, he seems like a hard working guy.

I think hes going to stay for the above reasons.

I wonder if they can sign him to a 1 year 4M deal and then open it up after that....

 

[HebrewHammer]

So we can back load a contract, say three years, but only start at 4M, then limited by a % increase of whatever, say 20% per year. I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this absolutely OBVIOUSLY ATROCIOUS (yes, even at the time, not even talking retrospect) decision.

I believe the percentage increase is only around 8% yearly.

 

[Joshoua]

If Len comes back, and Holmes and Bagley are healthy, this is the place he is going to bet on himself?
I doubt it.

people are just talking themselves into unrelastic scenarios, speak it to existence I guess.

 

[Groovygreg]

So we can back load a contract, say three years, but only start at 4M, then limited by a % increase of whatever, say 20% per year. I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this absolutely OBVIOUSLY ATROCIOUS (yes, even at the time, not even talking retrospect) decision.

It's these types of things that deflate my fanhood more than anything else. I can take bad signings. I can take bad trades. What I cannot take is disloyalty, idiotic disloyalty, to a totally hard working straight up kid who did everything right and every single casual fan could see the loads of potential. I almost just want to see Harry blow up somewhere else just as an eff u to the Kings FO.

As well as Giles is playing now, there remains speculation that he did not “do everything right” this past off-season. Keep that in mind.

 

[Groovygreg]

Right now, there is a good deal of uncertainty about what the future of this overcrowded Kings front-court will be. I really don’t know how the team doesn’t try to somehow retain Len if he continues to play the way he has since arriving in Sacramento, He is a legitimate Center who brings that size in the middle that this squad has been lacking. Giles is an ascending talent who is proving his worth. Before his injury, Holmes was as steady as anyone and getting it done with toughness and hustle. Bjelica is the perfect “big” for spreading the floor but can contribute on the inside as well. Bagley remains a huge question mark but has a potentially high upside and will need minutes to develop. Jabari Parker is well-touted as an offensive player but can’t find minutes, and he has a player option for next season. I can’t begin to speculate how everything will shake out.