The Harry Giles option conundrum

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
I wonder if they can sign him to a 1 year 4M deal and then open it up after that....
You do a two year contract with a player option on the second season that would give you back his bird rights and also allow Harry to bet on himself to earn more money in the slightly more open 2021-2022 free agent market. Another year of good health would also further remove him from the injury risk narrative that is still going to lower his value on this year's market (He's still less than a season removed from a leg injury that ended his season/ delayed his entry into this season)
 
People have their sources and whatever, but I straight up don’t even believe he was out of shape. By every account he’s an unbelievably hard worker.

Maybe hurt/upset he followed a different workout regiment? That I can see.
I have wondered if Harry may have been working out w Pete Youngman during the off-season (or under Pete’s direction) and that pissed off certain people.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Right now, there is a good deal of uncertainty about what the future of this overcrowded Kings front-court will be. I really don’t know how the team doesn’t try to somehow retain Len if he continues to play the way he has since arriving in Sacramento, He is a legitimate Center who brings that size in the middle that this squad has been lacking. Giles is an ascending talent who is proving his worth. Before his injury, Holmes was as steady as anyone and getting it done with toughness and hustle. Bjelica is the perfect “big” for spreading the floor but can contribute on the inside as well. Bagley remains a huge question mark but has a potentially high upside and will need minutes to develop. Jabari Parker is well-touted as an offensive player but can’t find minutes, and he has a player option for next season. I can’t begin to speculate how everything will shake out.
At the same time, having too many good players at a position is a far better problem to have than the not having any good players to play at a position problem that we had before (I'm looking at you Spencer Hawes/Sean May/Hilton Armstrong center depth chart from 2009-2010).
 
Right now, there is a good deal of uncertainty about what the future of this overcrowded Kings front-court will be. I really don’t know how the team doesn’t try to somehow retain Len if he continues to play the way he has since arriving in Sacramento, He is a legitimate Center who brings that size in the middle that this squad has been lacking. Giles is an ascending talent who is proving his worth. Before his injury, Holmes was as steady as anyone and getting it done with toughness and hustle. Bjelica is the perfect “big” for spreading the floor but can contribute on the inside as well. Bagley remains a huge question mark but has a potentially high upside and will need minutes to develop. Jabari Parker is well-touted as an offensive player but can’t find minutes, and he has a player option for next season. I can’t begin to speculate how everything will shake out.
He’s a scrub
 
I have wondered if Harry may have been working out w Pete Youngman during the off-season (or under Pete’s direction) and that pissed off certain people.
I’ve been pondering this, as well. I had to admit I was wrong for chastising Harry early in the season, as this training staff have proven to be rank amateurs. Harry did the right thing for his career in ignoring this training staff over the summer. He’s a sharp young man.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
What is the problem? I was responding to a comment by stating the factual situation.

If you don’t like facts or discussion, feel free to pm me.
No, I was just wondering if you're this fatalistic about more existential issues or if you're just a Hammer of Negativity when it comes to the Kings.

No need to get all internet tough guy about it. I was just legitimately wondering seeing as how in your short time on this site, the only time you actually have said anything more than damning with faint praise was when you said it was great Buddy won the 3-pt contest so that the fans and the franchise had something to celebrate. Of course, all of your posts have coincided with the Kings running off this streak of positive play so keep it up I guess. To each their own
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
I’ve been pondering this, as well. I had to admit I was wrong for chastising Harry early in the season, as this training staff have proven to be rank amateurs. Harry did the right thing for his career in ignoring this training staff over the summer. He’s a sharp young man.
To be fair, we don't know if it's the training staff who's been wrong or the PR guys who've been screwing up the entire time by putting out incredibly vague statements and then waiting until Kings fans start asking questions before stepping on their own testicles by clarifying vague injury A was actually serious injury B
 
No, I was just wondering if you're this fatalistic about more existential issues or if you're just a Hammer of Negativity when it comes to the Kings.

No need to get all internet tough guy about it. I was just legitimately wondering seeing as how in your short time on this site, the only time you actually have said anything more than damning with faint praise was when you said it was great Buddy won the 3-pt contest so that the fans and the franchise had something to celebrate. Of course, all of your posts have coincided with the Kings running off this streak of positive play so keep it up I guess. To each their own
Well, thank you for looking out for me and my posts, I guess?
 
I’ve been pondering this, as well. I had to admit I was wrong for chastising Harry early in the season, as this training staff have proven to be rank amateurs. Harry did the right thing for his career in ignoring this training staff over the summer. He’s a sharp young man.
This is actually the most plausible explanation I've heard so far. It hadn't even occurred to me that an incompetent training staff of quota hires could be so bad that it interferes with a contract situation but here we are. God I miss Pete Youngman.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
Maybe hurt/upset he followed a different workout regiment? That I can see.
I have wondered if Harry may have been working out w Pete Youngman during the off-season (or under Pete’s direction) and that pissed off certain people.
Harry did the right thing for his career in ignoring this training staff over the summer. He’s a sharp young man.
It hadn't even occurred to me that an incompetent training staff of quota hires could be so bad that it interferes with a contract situation but here we are. God I miss Pete Youngman.
Blind Speculation to Established "Fact" - a play in four acts.
 
Another example of NBA teams shying away from giving players with a long history of knee injuries a big long term contract is Nerlens Noel. Very much like Giles, was projected to be the #1 overall pick in high school.

With the ACL injury in college and subsequent knee related maladies, he dropped to #6 and Giles dropped to #20.

Subsequently, Noel proved to be a worthy rotation player and put up double figure scoring and 8 rebs per game in his 1st and 2nd year. He still has upside as a defensive specialist and rebounder, yet he never got a contract over $4.38 million. He has put up solid role player number for a couple of teams.

I think a lot of teams are leery of giving a big money contract to any player coming off major knee surgeries. HG has great value with us and we know his knee injury history well. Other teams coming in on bidding probably only have those MRI from pre-draft to assess his health. I doubt HG camp will let the new MRIs out to the general NBA, unless he gets a firm contract offer from that team.

HG knees are a great unknown to other teams, which will be an advantage to the Kings in negotiations this summer, over other teams coming in blind with an offer.
 
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To be fair, we don't know if it's the training staff who's been wrong or the PR guys who've been screwing up the entire time by putting out incredibly vague statements and then waiting until Kings fans start asking questions before stepping on their own testicles by clarifying vague injury A was actually serious injury B
I mentioned this before, the medical staff doesn't issue reports that's the PR staff.
 
Blind Speculation to Established "Fact" - a play in four acts.
It's more than blind speculation that a certain someone hell bent on promoting certain types of people is who our current training staff, and that it was absolutely not based on competence. The speculation here is that this is what contributed to Harry's contract situation. The former is fairly well accepted, and frankly, obvious. If it was based on competence, Pete Youngman, one of the best head trainers in the league, would still be our head trainer.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
It's more than blind speculation that a certain someone hell bent on promoting certain types of people is who our current training staff, and that it was absolutely not based on competence. The speculation here is that this is what contributed to Harry's contract situation. The former is fairly well accepted, and frankly, obvious. If it was based on competence, Pete Youngman, one of the best head trainers in the league, would still be our head trainer.
Not blind speculation:
1) MK is terrible
2) MK forced out Pete Youngman for somebody less qualified
3) Harry engaged in workouts not associated with the team over the summer

Complete blind speculation:
4) Harry ignored the Kings training staff over the summer
5) Harry worked with Pete Youngman over the summer instead
6) The Kings declined Harry's option because of 4) and 5).

Yet overnight we went from a mention of 3) to basically a declaration that 6) is probably true. My point has nothing to do with defending the Kings for forcing Youngman out. I wouldn't do that, that appears to have been a dumb move from the jump. My point is we literally know next to nothing about why Harry's option was declined and speculation that it somehow had to do with Pete Youngman went pandemic faster than Coronavirus despite no new facts, just some people saying, "Hmm, that must be it!"
 
I think what we do know is that there was a lot of uncertainty wrt Harry's health and happiness prior to the option being declined and suddenly everything is hunky dory, he's playing and playing well, and nobody is in a panic except Kings fans on message boards.

July 1 can't get here soon enough. Unless we sneak into the playoffs. Then I want that to last forever.
 
Another example of NBA teams shying away from giving players with a long history of knee injuries a big long term contract is Nerlens Noel. Very much like Giles, was projected to be the #1 overall pick in high school.

With the ACL injury in college and subsequent knee related maladies, he dropped to #6 and Giles dropped to #20.

Subsequently, Noel proved to be a worthy rotation player and put up double figure scoring and 8 rebs per game in his 1st and 2nd year. He still has upside as a defensive specialist and rebounder, yet he never got a contract over $4.38 million. He has put up solid role player number for a couple of teams.

I think a lot of teams are leery of giving a big money contract to any player coming off major knee surgeries. HG has great value with us and we know his knee injury history well. Other teams coming in on bidding probably only have those MRI from pre-draft to assess his health. I doubt HG camp will let the new MRIs out to the general NBA, unless he gets a firm contract offer from that team.

HG knees are a great unknown to other teams, which will be an advantage to the Kings in negotiations this summer, over other teams coming in blind with an offer.
My man you know Noel turned down like 50 million like a damn foo
 
My man you know Noel turned down like 50 million like a damn foo
I'm not too worried anyone is going to throw $50 million at Harry. If they do, I would have nothing against Giles for taking it.

But, the likely contract offers HG will receive will not be anywhere close to $10-13 million/yr for multiple years.

A likely offer may be something in the 1 or 2 years for $4 to 7mil per year. HG may be better off taking a one year deal from the Kings and cash in the following summer with his bird rights.
 
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Parker may well be washed up, but he has been a relatively productive offensive player as recently as earlier this season with ATL. If he’s smart, he will use what’s left of this season and the summer to work himself back into playing shape and commit to playing defense. Whether he does or doesn’t opt in on his final year of his contract (2020-21), he should be trying to showcase his skills as much as possible - for his own sake if nothing else.
 
I'm not too worried anyone is going to throw $50 million at Harry. If they do, I would have nothing against Giles for taking it.

But, the likely contract offers HG will receive will not be anywhere close to $10-13 million/yr for multiple years.

A likely offer may be something in the 1 or 2 years for $4 to 7mil per year. HG may be better off taking a one year deal from the Kings and cash in the following summer with his bird rights.
yes nobody will offer him 50mill but Noel was used as an example saying teams didn’t offer him money when a team did.
 
Kings should have covered the option on HG. If they knew then what they knew now they would have. It was a mistake, not at the level of the 2018 draft but a mistake none the less.

That said the Kings are playing great and HG is a big part of it. Hope he decides to stay as it will be up to him. You have to love a struggle for success like his.

But I am not going to fret and wallow in it. Others can though:)
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Kings should have covered the option on HG. If they knew then what they knew now they would have. It was a mistake, not at the level of the 2018 draft but a mistake none the less.

That said the Kings are playing great and HG is a big part of it. Hope he decides to stay as it will be up to him. You have to love a struggle for success like his.

But I am not going to fret and wallow in it. Others can though:)
This is exactly what I was trying to say earlier but more coherent and less snarky