Because anyone who doesn't agree with your perception has to be ridiculed? The observation was made by more than one knowledgeable Kings fan who happened to be sitting in STA at the time. I would tend to give them a little more credence than some random Internet hack who has never even stepped into our arena. Comments tweeted at various times were very complimentary about Corbin and the relationship he was building was various players, including Cousins. You can summarily dismiss it if you like but I think if you go back into game threads, etc. you'll see more than one mention that things seemed different without Corbin on the bench.
Malone fired
- Thread starter fursty13
- Start date
Cause in their mind this was their only chance - They had to act.
Like PDA said "It's not about winning". (Who even says that in pro sports? he should've been fired on the spot for that sentence alone)
Who cares if we throw this season to the river? Pete won his ego battle and proved he has the bigger male genitalia.
Like PDA said "It's not about winning". (Who even says that in pro sports? he should've been fired on the spot for that sentence alone)
Who cares if we throw this season to the river? Pete won his ego battle and proved he has the bigger male genitalia.
VF21,
I agree that generally everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and fans have a right to be as positive or negative as they like. Over many years, it has been fair game to assess the opinions of others here by making fair assessments of their past opinions.
That having been said, I think it is fair to say that you were late – by a measure of years – to coming around to the reality the Maloofs were bad owners and having finical issues. You were among their last defenders. You often did that with some of the same “don’t be so negative” and cherry picking Kings quotes and citing them as gospel that you use over the past few pages of posts.
Viveck does not have to remain a sub-par owner. He is new and can change. Right now, he is not doing well and how he conducts himself raises some legitimate red flags going forward. Most of what’s being posted here is fair.
I agree that generally everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and fans have a right to be as positive or negative as they like. Over many years, it has been fair game to assess the opinions of others here by making fair assessments of their past opinions.
That having been said, I think it is fair to say that you were late – by a measure of years – to coming around to the reality the Maloofs were bad owners and having finical issues. You were among their last defenders. You often did that with some of the same “don’t be so negative” and cherry picking Kings quotes and citing them as gospel that you use over the past few pages of posts.
Viveck does not have to remain a sub-par owner. He is new and can change. Right now, he is not doing well and how he conducts himself raises some legitimate red flags going forward. Most of what’s being posted here is fair.
If that happens, that would be returning to the level of winning we had when demarcus was healthy, more or less.
Management would spin that as "see, we needed a new coach." Nah. We needed to Boogie.
Even the most casual fan sees the big problem is not having the best player (by far) available. The record SHOULD improve now. No matter who the coach is.
Okc didn't Fire Scott Brooks when they were 3-14 without durant and Westbrook.
Management would spin that as "see, we needed a new coach." Nah. We needed to Boogie.
Even the most casual fan sees the big problem is not having the best player (by far) available. The record SHOULD improve now. No matter who the coach is.
Okc didn't Fire Scott Brooks when they were 3-14 without durant and Westbrook.
One of several posts of yours today that I think was spot on, or hope is. In part, I am intentionally keeping the flames to the feet here as a training exercise. Its like potty training a puppy. My hope would be 1) Vivek gets burned badly enough he flinches next time he wants to do something stupid; 2) that conditions are created that will in the future make it easier to remove the rodent and kick it back to the Rockies. Nobody will get fired right now, and that's semi-appropriate. But I want the heat turned up so high that anything but this working out just 100% aces comes boomeranging right around and bites the perpetrators in the ass, and hard. The way it was done was not acceptable. The reason it was done was not acceptable. Humiliating our franchise again is not acceptable. So...flame the fools hard, and hope for a better, more informed response next time. Because this was straight Maloofian. They fired a guy for all the same reasons the Maloofs would have. The epitome of a hard working, grind it out, straight shooting, NBA lifer...and they canned him for it because he wasn't sexy enough. All we need now is a $6million Tandoori Chicken commercial and we'll be set.
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This posted on another thread. I think it should be here also:
This is a great article titled: Attempting to understand the method behind Vivek Ranadive's machinations. I forgot Cuban kept Nellie around for awhile instead of canning the whole old Regime, link--> http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...-vivek-ranadive-s-machinations-231640492.html
“I really tried to learn,” Cuban said. “That’s why I didn’t make any changes when I first got there on the basketball side, because I wasn’t smart enough to know where to go or what changes to make. I feel [Ranadive’s] pain. It’s not easy. It is not easy. And you make mistakes.”
This is a great article titled: Attempting to understand the method behind Vivek Ranadive's machinations. I forgot Cuban kept Nellie around for awhile instead of canning the whole old Regime, link--> http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...-vivek-ranadive-s-machinations-231640492.html
“I really tried to learn,” Cuban said. “That’s why I didn’t make any changes when I first got there on the basketball side, because I wasn’t smart enough to know where to go or what changes to make. I feel [Ranadive’s] pain. It’s not easy. It is not easy. And you make mistakes.”
I really hope Pete considered the delicate chemistry that we finally had built up this year. This isnt 2k where you can just keep winning with the same roster there are actual human beings with feelings involved. In my opinion, to say that we will continue winning just like before cuz went down is not even close to a given. In fact I'd say a betting man would wager on us regressing. Which makes Viveks proclaimation of us making the playoffs look even more wreckless and helps make the case that he has no idea about what hes talking about.
Ramona Shelburne@ramonashelburne2 minutes ago
All this talk of Sacramento wanting to "jazz" up it's offense has me thinking of the way Mike D'Antoni used to talk about his system
One aspect of the "we want a jazz director for a head coach" spiel that just absolutely doesn't sit well with me is that NONE of the guys on this team have shown that they have the discipline to to improvise, freelance and play the sort of faced paced, free flowing offense that Ranadive and D'Alessandro are touting.
Collison is a speedster and a willing passer but he hasn't shown himself to be the type of player for that sort of system. He's not a consistent outside shooter or great off the catch and shoot and he isn't a guy who you can rely on to break down the defense and kick the ball out effectively.
McLemore is actually looking like a promising NBA player after a terrible rookie season. But he's still not a good ballhandler, still not able to cleanly handle passes when he cuts to the basket and in general seems to function best when he has a clear idea of what his role is and what he should do.
Gay has shown himself capable to be a plus passer and a smooth offensive player all around but we've seen that when he gets to call his own number that he's likely to put the scoring load on his own shoulders and revert to chucking ways.
Jason Thompson has seemingly lost most of his offensive skills of late. He CAN make the post entry pass from the high post pretty well and he used to be able to hit the 12-15 foot jumper but lately he's shown himself best suited to be a grinder on the glass and the defensive end.
Boogie certainly has the skillset to be a Vlade/Webber type big. His offensive versatility, rebounding and underutilized passing are ideal for it. But he's also still refining his shot selection and learning to trust his teammates. In time I think he'd flourish but for now I think Malone's structure was benefitting him.
As for the bench, Landry has never been a willing passer (and must for this type of scheme), Casspi has succeeded this season by relentlessly attacking the basket, Williams & Hollins lack the BBIQ and consistency for this type of scheme, and McCallum is also not an incredibly creative offensive player or consistent shooter. About the only bench player who IS cut out for that system is Stauskas and it remains to be seen if he'll come around. I think he will, but it remains to be seen what his ceiling is or how long he'll take to be a dependable piece instead of a liability.
So by my estimation, the team has at most TWO or two and a half guys that are ideal for the system that the GM wants to run and he's the one that put the roster together.
I think a large part of this issue all along has been that D'Alessandro and Ranadive have looked to the Warriors and Nuggets as their idealized version of basketball when (1) neither of those teams had accomplished anything when they were part of the organization and (2) neither one had anything close to Boogie. And I also think they've concerned themselves too much with the national narrative and mistaken that for the feelings of Kings fans. When the GM says that "everyone" was against them extending Cousins, trading for Gay, letting Thomas walk etc the reality is that (at least from my vantage point) Kings fans largely cheered, were cautiously optimistic and split down the middle on those moves respectively.
From where I sit what Kings fans want is a team that plays hard, maximizes their abilities and fights each night.
We had that.
Malone wasn't perfect and I disagreed vocally with a lot of his substitution patterns, end of game play calls etc but he was improving the team and they were battling for him. And to fire him without having a plan in place to replace him because the front office had "lost patience" with him is a terrible excuse in my mind.
Personally any patience I had for D'Alessandro is gone. Put up or shut up Pete. Anything less than 40 wins this season and we should be calling for your head.
Collison is a speedster and a willing passer but he hasn't shown himself to be the type of player for that sort of system. He's not a consistent outside shooter or great off the catch and shoot and he isn't a guy who you can rely on to break down the defense and kick the ball out effectively.
McLemore is actually looking like a promising NBA player after a terrible rookie season. But he's still not a good ballhandler, still not able to cleanly handle passes when he cuts to the basket and in general seems to function best when he has a clear idea of what his role is and what he should do.
Gay has shown himself capable to be a plus passer and a smooth offensive player all around but we've seen that when he gets to call his own number that he's likely to put the scoring load on his own shoulders and revert to chucking ways.
Jason Thompson has seemingly lost most of his offensive skills of late. He CAN make the post entry pass from the high post pretty well and he used to be able to hit the 12-15 foot jumper but lately he's shown himself best suited to be a grinder on the glass and the defensive end.
Boogie certainly has the skillset to be a Vlade/Webber type big. His offensive versatility, rebounding and underutilized passing are ideal for it. But he's also still refining his shot selection and learning to trust his teammates. In time I think he'd flourish but for now I think Malone's structure was benefitting him.
As for the bench, Landry has never been a willing passer (and must for this type of scheme), Casspi has succeeded this season by relentlessly attacking the basket, Williams & Hollins lack the BBIQ and consistency for this type of scheme, and McCallum is also not an incredibly creative offensive player or consistent shooter. About the only bench player who IS cut out for that system is Stauskas and it remains to be seen if he'll come around. I think he will, but it remains to be seen what his ceiling is or how long he'll take to be a dependable piece instead of a liability.
So by my estimation, the team has at most TWO or two and a half guys that are ideal for the system that the GM wants to run and he's the one that put the roster together.
I think a large part of this issue all along has been that D'Alessandro and Ranadive have looked to the Warriors and Nuggets as their idealized version of basketball when (1) neither of those teams had accomplished anything when they were part of the organization and (2) neither one had anything close to Boogie. And I also think they've concerned themselves too much with the national narrative and mistaken that for the feelings of Kings fans. When the GM says that "everyone" was against them extending Cousins, trading for Gay, letting Thomas walk etc the reality is that (at least from my vantage point) Kings fans largely cheered, were cautiously optimistic and split down the middle on those moves respectively.
From where I sit what Kings fans want is a team that plays hard, maximizes their abilities and fights each night.
We had that.
Malone wasn't perfect and I disagreed vocally with a lot of his substitution patterns, end of game play calls etc but he was improving the team and they were battling for him. And to fire him without having a plan in place to replace him because the front office had "lost patience" with him is a terrible excuse in my mind.
Personally any patience I had for D'Alessandro is gone. Put up or shut up Pete. Anything less than 40 wins this season and we should be calling for your head.
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I absolutely agree. If this team regresses at all from where they were with a healthy team, PDA should be fired immediately. If they actually did this to IMPROVE the team, and it does not, the guy who made the decsison, should be gone. From vivek's mouth, that is Mullin and PEtey and Bratz. I fear that won't be the case though, and they'll just install Mullin as coach
It's an enormous leap of faith to think this will make the team better in the short term. Corbin has barely been there. What makes them think they won't give up on him immediately if times are tough? The team certainly hasn't been given any reason to play for the front office. In fact, they have a big reason not to trust anything they say now. They can rally around themselves, in an us against the world way, but that is pretty hard to keep up.
I never worried about the players giving up under Malone cause I really didn't see that happening out there. Some people seemed to think that was the case, but I think they are mistaking bad play for bad effort. There is a difference. But whatever I guess. The front office didn't care about any of that. Playing hard for a coach might be the most important thing, especially for an under-talented team.
Of course Mullin doesn't want the team now. He'd rather watch Corbin fail first, then come in as the savior. Right now, they seem to be putting all the pressure on Corbin, which is extremely unfair, being as he didn't fire the coach, nor was he involved in getting these players. That's the life of a coach.
And the revisionist painting of the IT, Demarcus and Rudy moves as being controversial and acting like this is the same thing is ludicrous. Those were 50/50 moves, if not actually mostly favorable (in the case of Rudy and Demarcus). This is like 90% minimum against it. Probably higher. Don't even try to equate those moves with this one. There's no comparison. This was a coup by some very shady men.
It's an enormous leap of faith to think this will make the team better in the short term. Corbin has barely been there. What makes them think they won't give up on him immediately if times are tough? The team certainly hasn't been given any reason to play for the front office. In fact, they have a big reason not to trust anything they say now. They can rally around themselves, in an us against the world way, but that is pretty hard to keep up.
I never worried about the players giving up under Malone cause I really didn't see that happening out there. Some people seemed to think that was the case, but I think they are mistaking bad play for bad effort. There is a difference. But whatever I guess. The front office didn't care about any of that. Playing hard for a coach might be the most important thing, especially for an under-talented team.
Of course Mullin doesn't want the team now. He'd rather watch Corbin fail first, then come in as the savior. Right now, they seem to be putting all the pressure on Corbin, which is extremely unfair, being as he didn't fire the coach, nor was he involved in getting these players. That's the life of a coach.
And the revisionist painting of the IT, Demarcus and Rudy moves as being controversial and acting like this is the same thing is ludicrous. Those were 50/50 moves, if not actually mostly favorable (in the case of Rudy and Demarcus). This is like 90% minimum against it. Probably higher. Don't even try to equate those moves with this one. There's no comparison. This was a coup by some very shady men.
Reading Vivek talk about wanting a "jazz director" just makes me more furious, he and PDA have no idea what they are looking for. If they paid attention, they would have seen how the offense had evolved/was still evolving this year from a lot of pick and rolls/ISOs/HORNS last year to more complex sets like HAWK and the Spurs motion weak.
Considering the relative instability of the roster over the past two years, you need to give these things time to get perfected. You obviously can't expect a team with a bunch of new pieces to be running these sets to perfection, that's why you hear a lot of former coaches turned analysts repeating the meme about "consistency and stability" with a system and a roster. Obviously, when guys aren't familiar with sets, knowing ALL of their options in a set, and aren't perfect at executing, the ball call stop and make it look like bad ball movement. These sets (HORNS, HAWK and Motion Weak) played to our advantages, utilizing Cousins in the high post in HORNS, being able to post up Gay on smaller guards in HAWK, the off-ball movement for the guards (Darren and Ben) in motion weak. There's a lot you could talk about with the offensive sets we were implementing this year and how they played to the strengths of our core. This is why Popovich said "Apparently, he didn't have that cause if just based on coaching ability he's still there." (referring to patience and non-meddling ownership).
It's pretty obvious the way Vivek is talking now that he got punked by PDA/Mullin/Bratz into letting them fire Malone based on stylistic reasons that he didn't understand to begin with. This whole "jazz director" nonsense just tells me he doesn't know what he's looking at, he relied upon his advisors to inform him and they used their influence in a power play to move the team in a direction they thought was more fun to watch rather than sticking with what had started working. All the while humiliating our franchise once again, making us look unstable and setting us back another year in development.
Considering the relative instability of the roster over the past two years, you need to give these things time to get perfected. You obviously can't expect a team with a bunch of new pieces to be running these sets to perfection, that's why you hear a lot of former coaches turned analysts repeating the meme about "consistency and stability" with a system and a roster. Obviously, when guys aren't familiar with sets, knowing ALL of their options in a set, and aren't perfect at executing, the ball call stop and make it look like bad ball movement. These sets (HORNS, HAWK and Motion Weak) played to our advantages, utilizing Cousins in the high post in HORNS, being able to post up Gay on smaller guards in HAWK, the off-ball movement for the guards (Darren and Ben) in motion weak. There's a lot you could talk about with the offensive sets we were implementing this year and how they played to the strengths of our core. This is why Popovich said "Apparently, he didn't have that cause if just based on coaching ability he's still there." (referring to patience and non-meddling ownership).
It's pretty obvious the way Vivek is talking now that he got punked by PDA/Mullin/Bratz into letting them fire Malone based on stylistic reasons that he didn't understand to begin with. This whole "jazz director" nonsense just tells me he doesn't know what he's looking at, he relied upon his advisors to inform him and they used their influence in a power play to move the team in a direction they thought was more fun to watch rather than sticking with what had started working. All the while humiliating our franchise once again, making us look unstable and setting us back another year in development.
Ramona Shelburne@ramonashelburne2 minutes ago
All this talk of Sacramento wanting to "jazz" up it's offense has me thinking of the way Mike D'Antoni used to talk about his system
G
It's amazing, it really is. You all make up your mind about how you feel, whether it's pertaining to an individual or an idea. In this case, you all pessimistically hate Vivek and the FO and all their bone-head decisions have no reasoning. I'll just go along with it. To make you all happy.
Keep in mind that I LOVED the idea of having a coach who was backed by the organization. I was under the wrong impression which is why this came as a surprise to just about everyone. It doesn't take a rocket scientist if you actually watched the game.
I've doubted Malone ever since the Memphis game. We should not have lost that game. If you're Malone, you put 5 guys under the basket because with .03 left on the clock, THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN BEAT US.
Keep in mind that I LOVED the idea of having a coach who was backed by the organization. I was under the wrong impression which is why this came as a surprise to just about everyone. It doesn't take a rocket scientist if you actually watched the game.
I've doubted Malone ever since the Memphis game. We should not have lost that game. If you're Malone, you put 5 guys under the basket because with .03 left on the clock, THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN BEAT US.
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It's amazing, it really is. You all make up your mind about how you feel, whether it's pertaining to an individual or an idea. In this case, you all pessimistically hate Vivek and the FO and all their bone-head decisions have no reasoning. I'll just go along with it. To make you all happy.
And I was asking honest questions.
Do you think the Kings will have a higher winning percentage under Tyrone Corbin than Malone?
Do you agree with Vivek that the Kings will make the playoffs this season?