Mbah a Moute-Williams trade? (merged)

[swisshh]

I think fans are not happy about the trade because it reminds them of the Maloofs. Talk all season long about changing the culture and then trade away the guy who represents that culture for a low bball IQ tweener who hasn't lived up to draft hype. The goal was always changing in the past and every word from the FO felt empty. This trade gives fan a chilly reminder of that practice.

Yes, DWill has talent, and has potential, but fans are hoping this isn't another JJ Hickosn or TRobb.

 

[Kingster]

Bingo! Exactly what I've been preaching for a couple of weeks now. Most of this team is going to be gone in two years. I liked Mbah a Moute, but for god's sake, we got him for 2nd round picks. Why? Because he's mostly a one dimensional player, and has bad knee's. Not saying there's not a place for that. God love the Tony Allens of the world. But those are the guys you add as one of the final pieces to a contending team. Those are the guys you can afford to start because you have four other starters that are capable of putting the ball in the basket. Lest anyone didn't notice, we're having a bit of trouble doing that of late.

Right now, the front office is looking to the future, and I think their more than willing to sacrifice some of the present to that regard. The bottom line is, if your thinking you won't be able to contend for two, maybe three more years, and I mean actually contend, not just barely make the playoffs, then what future does Mbah a Moute have with us, with what appears to be chronic knee problems? Zero! So what we just did was turn two second round picks into Derrick Williams. Who knows, in two years, he may not be here either. But that's up to him. Hopefully he gets a proper chance to what he's capable of.

The injury factor is key in this trade. I doubt the Kings do it if they were confident in Luc's health going forward. Chronological age of 27 is one thing; effective age is another. The Kings management has already said they look hard at the injury factor in determining the value of a player going forward. It all fits.

My speculation is that this trade is going to hurt the Kings in the near term; there is now no perimeter defender on this team of any note. Which means that this deal could "assist" the Kings in getting more ping pong balls this year. That said, if Williams becomes more of the player I saw in college, it's a good trade for the Kings. I guess I'm greedy because I was hoping that Hayes, Thornton, Salmons et al would be in he trade, not Luc.

 

[Glenn]

The injury factor is key in this trade. I doubt the Kings do it if they were confident in Luc's health going forward. Chronological age of 27 is one thing; effective age is another. The Kings management has already said they look hard at the injury factor in determining the value of a player going forward. It all fits.

My speculation is that this trade is going to hurt the Kings in the near term; there is now no perimeter defender on this team of any note. Which means that this deal could "assist" the Kings in getting more ping pong balls this year. That said, if Williams becomes more of the player I saw in college, it's a good trade for the Kings. I guess I'm greedy because I was hoping that Hayes, Thornton, Salmons et al would be in he trade, not Luc.

Luc had surgery on his patellar tendon. It was a bad case of jumper's knee, a condition that Hassan Whiteside had and I suspect to a certain extent, a lot of NBA player's have. Luc's was just bad and needed surgery. It is not a degenerative condition. Most, but not all people recover 100% from the surgery. Do not play basketball post surgery if there is pain. The absence of pain shows the knee is back to normal. I suspect that is Luc's status. I don't know for sure but this doesn't sound like a problem that would recur.

I don't think Luc's knee had anything to do with the trade.

 

[Kingster]

Look, I am no Derrick Williams fan. People still give him all this credit for being a #2 pick, but you know what? We just got done playing the Wovles #4 pick, Wesley Johnson. That one they took over Cousins. Maybe we can go find Johhny Flynn, who they took #5 as well. Point being being a #2 pick means nothing for him. Fans, and indeed people in general, often buy into hype, especially fro athletes. Ooh, look he can dunk! Yeah, nifty. In a dunk contest maybe. But tweeners are deadly beasts. Normally to their own teams. This year we're seeing it again with Anthony Bennett. Fact of the matter is that Williams has been dumb, soft, inefficient, and unable to carve out a starting role for a team that would have handed it to him. And the only two reasons fans have kept on going ooh! Derrick Williams! Is because he was the #2 pick. And he can dunk. End analysis.

Now all of that said, ALL of that said, and with it said that there will come a day when Mbah a Moute will be precisely the sort of roleplayer we will want piles of, there is a clear theory to trading him for Derrick Williams. Call it Daryl Morey theory. The same way that Morey was running around the last few years shipping off every asset that wasn't tied to a chair on the theory that you need stars to win,a nd he didn't want to acquire anybody who didn't have at least a chance to be a star, well...here we are. We took a 2nd round pick, turned it into a roleplayer, and turned the roleplayer into a former #2 who was thought to have star potential. So it is what it is. You install him at SF, croiss your fingers. If it doesn't work out, then you lose while claiming to be reaching for the stars, and go draft somebody better.

Hardly. I think that sells many fans incredibly short. The Williams I saw in college had a nice outside shot, an intermediate game, and an inside game, was a good dribbler, and had some BBIQ. He wasn't just a one-dimensional dunker.

 

[Padrino]

The injury factor is key in this trade. I doubt the Kings do it if they were confident in Luc's health going forward. Chronological age of 27 is one thing; effective age is another. The Kings management has already said they look hard at the injury factor in determining the value of a player going forward. It all fits.

My speculation is that this trade is going to hurt the Kings in the near term; there is now no perimeter defender on this team of any note. Which means that this deal could "assist" the Kings in getting more ping pong balls this year. That said, if Williams becomes more of the player I saw in college, it's a good trade for the Kings. I guess I'm greedy because I was hoping that Hayes, Thornton, Salmons et al would be in he trade, not Luc.

that's certainly what we were all hoping for, but it speaks volumes that the only "flexible piece" the kings were in a position to move in order to acquire derrick williams was one that the kings' new front office traded for just a few months ago. nobody's speed-dialing d'allesandro's cell in a mad dash to trade for hayes, thornton, fredette, salmons, patterson, etc. however, mbah a moute had some value, so he was shipped off to minnesota for a young prospect who will, as you say, "assist the kings in getting more ping pong balls this year"...

that said, management still needs to find a way to dump some of this dead weight on the roster. at least with salmons' contract, time is on the kings' side. he'll either a) be traded prior to the deadline to a team looking for some immediate cap relief, or b) his contract will simply come off the kings' books this offseason, and perhaps they can pursue a roleplayer in free agency that better fills a need...

 

[Kingster]

that's certainly what we were all hoping for, but it speaks volumes that the only "flexible piece" the kings were in a position to move in order to acquire derrick williams was one that the kings' new front office traded for just a few months ago. nobody's speed-dialing d'allesandro's cell in a mad dash to trade for hayes, thornton, fredette, salmons, patterson, etc. however, mbah a moute had some value, so he was shipped off to minnesota for a young prospect who will, as you say, "assist the kings in getting more ping pong balls this year"...

that said, management still needs to find a way to dump some of this dead weight on the roster. at least with salmons' contract, time is on the kings' side. he'll either a) be traded prior to the deadline to a team looking for some immediate cap relief, or b) his contract will simply come off the kings' books this offseason, and perhaps they can pursue a roleplayer in free agency that better fills a need...

Yep. I'm guessing the former. I can still see a team out there that thinks Salmons can help them in the playoffs, and I think he's going to have more value to the Kings in a trade rather than in the $ they get from having his contract come off the books. I'm going to be surprised if he's still a King after the February trade deadline. What young NBA player will they go after next? A perimeter defender type?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I won't be surprised in a couple of years, if we are somehow able to get Moute back with us. Malone probably told him as much in their goodbye's

 

[LPKingsFan]

that's certainly what we were all hoping for, but it speaks volumes that the only "flexible piece" the kings were in a position to move in order to acquire derrick williams was one that the kings' new front office traded for just a few months ago. nobody's speed-dialing d'allesandro's cell in a mad dash to trade for hayes, thornton, fredette, salmons, patterson, etc. however, mbah a moute had some value, so he was shipped off to minnesota for a young prospect who will, as you say, "assist the kings in getting more ping pong balls this year"...

that said, management still needs to find a way to dump some of this dead weight on the roster. at least with salmons' contract, time is on the kings' side. he'll either a) be traded prior to the deadline to a team looking for some immediate cap relief, or b) his contract will simply come off the kings' books this offseason, and perhaps they can pursue a roleplayer in free agency that better fills a need...

Right. There's only so much that the new management can do when the "assets" left by the old regime--Thornton, Patterson, and Salmons--all start the season playing absolutely terribly. Patterson looks like he might be able to turn things around, but he's expiring at the end of the year anyway. Thornton, the most expensive of all, is getting DNP-CDs. And here I was hoping he'd start the season scoring 20 points per game and be easily tradeable.

 

[NewArena]

It's actually rather easy to complain about it. In our search for a starting sf, we traded the best sf we've had in years and the only good defender on the team for a guy that hasn't played well at sf his 3 year nba career and who doesn't excel at outside shooting, passing or defense, the very things we need most from our sf. At least Luc provided the defense and didn't take bad shots. It also cost us more money.

The only upside here is that he may still have upside. But it hasn't shown up much in 3 years.

eh, i guess he's the perfect roleplayer, but our team is full of roleplayer guys. We need to see what some of these young guys can do. Luc deserves to be on a team that can compete, and we aren't ready for that just yet.

 

[Glenn]

eh, i guess he's the perfect roleplayer, but our team is full of roleplayer guys. We need to see what some of these young guys can do. Luc deserves to be on a team that can compete, and we aren't ready for that just yet.

You realize you kind of said that we aren't good enough to deserve Luc.

 

[bajaden]

really? he locked Gerald Green down? Green averages 15pts per game and had 23 against us.

Amost all of Green's points came in the first half, when Luc wasn't guarding him. Green was almost invisible in the second half when Luc was on him.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

With Mbah a Moute, we obviously weren't winning now so it's not trading him away is killing our hope of the Playoffs. he would be a really good role player for our team, but if he is one of your 3-4 best players 9which he probably was for us), you are in trouble. I'd rather take potential talent to develop this year than keep a vet whose only positive may decline soon because of knee problems.

 

[bajaden]

I have nothing against Mbah a Moute. I loved his defense. But two weeks ago, we could have made this same trade, and I doubt anyone would have been upset. I'm not a mind reader, and I could be wrong. I'm sure some of you have little crystal balls that told you Luc was going to play and be our defensive savior. Truth is, fans are fickle, and Luc happens to be the flavor of the month. And I mean no disrespect to him. But a month from now, he could be sitting on the bench with another sore knee. And, since Glenn brought it up, the last report I had on him was that he had a condition where his knee's were going to be sore at times, and he just had to play through the pain. I'm not an expert, but that has the sound of chronic to me.

I'll say it again. The new management team is going to totally blow up this team, and rebuild it the way they want. That means were going to say goodbye to a lot of players that were familiar with. I doubt that they look at Williams as some sort of savior, but rather as a young player with potential. Their going to give him a shot at redemption. If he doesn't fulfill their expectations, then he'll be gone after next season as well. If he does meet expectations, then you've acquired one more piece for the future. Personally, I have zero expectations either way. I'm not going to denigrate him for past failures, and I'm not going to buy his jersey to put on the wall next to Valde's. I liked him at Arizona, but that's past history. So we'll see. I hope for the best

One final note. What I'm not going to do is prognosticate whether he can play SF or not. Or whether he'll be a decent to good defender or not. Or whether he'll reclaim his outside shot or not. Because frankly, I don't know, and I doubt any of you know either. And I've seen him play quite a bit. A couple of months from now, we'll have a better idea. As I said, I'm hoping for the best.

 

[Glenn]

I have nothing against Mbah a Moute. I loved his defense. But two weeks ago, we could have made this same trade, and I doubt anyone would have been upset. I'm not a mind reader, and I could be wrong. I'm sure some of you have little crystal balls that told you Luc was going to play and be our defensive savior. Truth is, fans are fickle, and Luc happens to be the flavor of the month. And I mean no disrespect to him. But a month from now, he could be sitting on the bench with another sore knee. And, since Glenn brought it up, the last report I had on him was that he had a condition where his knee's were going to be sore at times, and he just had to play through the pain. I'm not an expert, but that has the sound of chronic to me.

I'll say it again. The new management team is going to totally blow up this team, and rebuild it the way they want. That means were going to say goodbye to a lot of players that were familiar with. I doubt that they look at Williams as some sort of savior, but rather as a young player with potential. Their going to give him a shot at redemption. If he doesn't fulfill their expectations, then he'll be gone after next season as well. If he does meet expectations, then you've acquired one more piece for the future. Personally, I have zero expectations either way. I'm not going to denigrate him for past failures, and I'm not going to buy his jersey to put on the wall next to Valde's. I liked him at Arizona, but that's past history. So we'll see. I hope for the best

One final note. What I'm not going to do is prognosticate whether he can play SF or not. Or whether he'll be a decent to good defender or not. Or whether he'll reclaim his outside shot or not. Because frankly, I don't know, and I doubt any of you know either. And I've seen him play quite a bit. A couple of months from now, we'll have a better idea. As I said, I'm hoping for the best.

I was going on the information I had which was that he was pain free in the games he played. I assumed such as if he had pain when we acquired him, it was a HUGE mistake to trade for him even if it was for a 2nd rounder. With this type of surgery, most players recover with no pain and can go on and have an NBA career. The surgery wasn't successful which is the way the cookie crumbles. Those who have pain after a sufficient rehab like Luc are a whole different deal. We went ahead and knowingly acquired damaged goods. Luc had no future with us and the physician, I am assuming the team uses MDs, should have told the FO that and hopefully the FO listened. We sure got rid of him in a hurry as well we should. Get what you can as quickly as you can out of what was a bad deal in the first place.

Minnesota accepted Luc with (I hope) their medical guidance that Luc's career would be spotty at best. They were willing to give up Williams for damaged goods. We can only hope that we shouldn't be concerned by what that might imply about Williams.

My faith in this FO is very shaky. It seems like they say one thing and their behavior suggests another. But this is supposed to be about Williams.

 

[Bricklayer]

One interesting little side possibility is the Boston scenario.

meaning this: we are stockpiling young assets with flashy draft position numbers. If we get lucky in the draft, we can use them to supplement a stud in the draft as the core of a young team. If we get less lucky, we can use them and our cap room to try to do what Boston did in '08. Once the season ends, we know whether we keep our draft pick or not. If we keep it, then you have a lottery pick this year, Ben McLemore (#7 this draft), Derrick Williams (#2 two drafts ago)...unfortunately IT and Grevis will be FAs, but they give you felxibility with your cap. In any case, Williams is a lot flashier piece to try to include in youth packages for stars than is Mbah a Moute. You manage to make one more trade this year for a similar style of young asset, and you have the option of trying to cash them all in for a couple of major vets if that's how you want to play it.

 

[Cold]

I was going on the information I had which was that he was pain free in the games he played. I assumed such as if he had pain when we acquired him, it was a HUGE mistake to trade for him even if it was for a 2nd rounder. With this type of surgery, most players recover with no pain and can go on and have an NBA career. The surgery wasn't successful which is the way the cookie crumbles. Those who have pain after a sufficient rehab like Luc are a whole different deal. We went ahead and knowingly acquired damaged goods. Luc had no future with us and the physician, I am assuming the team uses MDs, should have told the FO that and hopefully the FO listened. We sure got rid of him in a hurry as well we should. Get what you can as quickly as you can out of what was a bad deal in the first place.

Minnesota accepted Luc with (I hope) their medical guidance that Luc's career would be spotty at best. They were willing to give up Williams for damaged goods. We can only hope that we shouldn't be concerned by what that might imply about Williams.

My faith in this FO is very shaky. It seems like they say one thing and their behavior suggests another. But this is supposed to be about Williams.

Tanking

 

[MizzouKing]

I like this trade. Longer tenured Kings fans will know what I mean when I view Luc's medical issues in the context of the Indian burial ground that Sleep Train Arena is built on top of. I think we got value out of a still-healthy player while there was still value to be had.

We all would prefer to have unloaded MT, Patterson, and Salmons-the-fan-favorite, and no one wants this more than the FO. Unfortunately, their TPT (Turd Polishing Team) can only do so much, but as long as the drunken holiday party season continues there is hope. Catch the right GM at the right point of inebriation and Who Knows???

As for our FO, I would have MUCH less confidence in them if they were telegraphing their strategy and sharing the secret sauce recipe with the general public. I appreciate that they have a bad hand, a non-draw location, and an extreme lack of talent to deal with right now... don't expect transparency or conventional logic as they work to dig us out of this hole.

MizzouKing

 

[Glenn]

Sure they are tanking. They better be tanking. What they did is trade a 2nd rounder who might not have cost them anything or at the worst under $1 mil for a guy just as useless who cost them $4.5 mil. The Fresh Prince of Downtown Minneapolis was not an expiring contract. At least they slid out from underneath their stupidity by getting Williams.

I don't like being told one thing and have them do another. I am going to ignore what the FO says from now on. I trust Malone very much but I don't trust PDA at all. I don't trust him in what he says or does. We picked up a guy who will have to transition to the SF position or play the same position that Landry and PPat play. Remember Landry? Landry was NOT a hand he was dealt.

 

[mac]

that's certainly what we were all hoping for, but it speaks volumes that the only "flexible piece" the kings were in a position to move in order to acquire derrick williams was one that the kings' new front office traded for just a few months ago. nobody's speed-dialing d'allesandro's cell in a mad dash to trade for hayes, thornton, fredette, salmons, patterson, etc. however, mbah a moute had some value, so he was shipped off to minnesota for a young prospect who will, as you say, "assist the kings in getting more ping pong balls this year"...

that said, management still needs to find a way to dump some of this dead weight on the roster. at least with salmons' contract, time is on the kings' side. he'll either a) be traded prior to the deadline to a team looking for some immediate cap relief, or b) his contract will simply come off the kings' books this offseason, and perhaps they can pursue a roleplayer in free agency that better fills a need...

And indeed the day the season ends you and I shall rejoice ... only to find out a few months later that we re-signed Salmons to a 3 year 21M deal

 

[jpsls]

Sure they are tanking. They better be tanking. What they did is trade a 2nd rounder who might not have cost them anything or at the worst under $1 mil for a guy just as useless who cost them $4.5 mil. The Fresh Prince of Downtown Minneapolis was not an expiring contract. At least they slid out from underneath their stupidity by getting Williams.

I don't like being told one thing and have them do another. I am going to ignore what the FO says from now on. I trust Malone very much but I don't trust PDA at all. I don't trust him in what he says or does. We picked up a guy who will have to transition to the SF position or play the same position that Landry and PPat play. Remember Landry? Landry was NOT a hand he was dealt.

You think a second round pick is worth more than Derrick Williams?

 

[Glenn]

You think a second round pick is worth more than Derrick Williams?

We traded two future 2nd round picks to get Luc so your understanding of the trade is inaccurate. I'll play the game anyway. Luc was damaged goods and maybe was not worth the trade. Remember he didn't play at the beginning of the season and if you have read anything I have posted you will know that this is a bad sign as to his physical health. We then traded Luc for a player who is very athletic as I have been told but has also been described as a ball stopper and a defensive liability. Rick Adelman didn't think he could play SF. If that is so, and I will go by Adelman's estimation, then we have an undersized PF. Is that what we need? I doubt it but given what we let go for him and given that if he doesn't work out we can let him go this season, it's a low risk.

I think he will be a distraction and may cost us wins in the short term and in my books, that's fine. If he turns out to be a flop this year it will have been a great trade. PDA can look like he is doing something yet continue the effort to have a pitiful record. Other notes have mentioned that we are scouting Jabari Parker (possible #1 pick) with Chris Mullin. It seems we are preparing for a very poor w/l record and Williams may well be a part of that.

So, even though we didn't trade a 2nd round pick for Williams and actually traded two 2nd rounders for the Fresh Prince of Sacramento Minneapolis I played your game. This was not as simplistic as you would like it to be as there are far more factors involved in what we did.

Do you think Williams is worth 2 future second round picks?

 

[jpsls]

Absolutely. If a second round pick ends up being the 12th man on your bench, I would say you are doing very well. Second round picks very rarely end up staying in the league after a couple years, so I believe you are drastically overestimating their value. Second round draft picks get traded for cash ALL THE TIME.

What exactly is the worst thing that can happen? LMAM ceiling has been reached. We know what he could do. He's a solid defender who knows his role on offense, which is valuable, but we don't need that at this time. This team needs an infusion of talent badly, someone who has the potential to be on the team 3 years from now.

In a perfect world, PDA would have traded Hayes, Thornton, and Jimmer for a prolific scorer and young shotblocker, but the world doesn't work that way.

 

[The_Jamal]

We traded two future 2nd round picks to get Luc so your understanding of the trade is inaccurate. I'll play the game anyway. Luc was damaged goods and maybe was not worth the trade. Remember he didn't play at the beginning of the season and if you have read anything I have posted you will know that this is a bad sign as to his physical health. We then traded Luc for a player who is very athletic as I have been told but has also been described as a ball stopper and a defensive liability. Rick Adelman didn't think he could play SF. If that is so, and I will go by Adelman's estimation, then we have an undersized PF. Is that what we need? I doubt it but given what we let go for him and given that if he doesn't work out we can let him go this season, it's a low risk.

I think he will be a distraction and may cost us wins in the short term and in my books, that's fine. If he turns out to be a flop this year it will have been a great trade. PDA can look like he is doing something yet continue the effort to have a pitiful record. Other notes have mentioned that we are scouting Jabari Parker (possible #1 pick) with Chris Mullin. It seems we are preparing for a very poor w/l record and Williams may well be a part of that.

So, even though we didn't trade a 2nd round pick for Williams and actually traded two 2nd rounders for the Fresh Prince of Sacramento Minneapolis I played your game. This was not as simplistic as you would like it to be as there are far more factors involved in what we did.

Do you think Williams is worth 2 future second round picks?

absolutely. Guys like Parsons and IT drafted in the 2nd round are unfortunately the rare exception rather the norm. Heck, teams are thrilled if a 2nd round pick can become a 10-15 min. rotational player.

Williams can be a future core player if he hits on his potential. Even if you think that has a 5% chance of happening, it's still worth trying to find that future core player.

 

[Glenn]

Absolutely. If a second round pick ends up being the 12th man on your bench, I would say you are doing very well. Second round picks very rarely end up staying in the league after a couple years, so I believe you are drastically overestimating their value. Second round draft picks get traded for cash ALL THE TIME.

What exactly is the worst thing that can happen? LMAM ceiling has been reached. We know what he could do. He's a solid defender who knows his role on offense, which is valuable, but we don't need that at this time. This team needs an infusion of talent badly, someone who has the potential to be on the team 3 years from now.

In a perfect world, PDA would have traded Hayes, Thornton, and Jimmer for a prolific scorer and young shotblocker, but the world doesn't work that way.

I think that more likely than not, we traded for Williams as he improves our chances in the race to the bottom - the Jabari Parker sweepstakes. By all that I can see, if we force him to play SF, he will not do well as that's the conclusion of Adelman. Adelman could be wrong but if I had to place my bets, I'd be on Adelman's side. He could stay at PF and be a 6'8" PF. He will fight for minutes with PPat and perhaps others. That's not the worst thing in the world but it disrupts the team in the short run. If it all doesn't work out, we can let him go. At the least and I think the most likely result of this trade will be that NEXT YEAR we will have a worse record than if we had kept Mbah a Moute who, in fact, is who we traded for him, not two 2nd rounders. At the best, in a few years we may have a rotational player but if he doesn't make it next year, why keep him? Apparently I like the trade for reasons that other people don't share.

You all are wrong. Or, gasp, we all are right!!! It's amazing how many "arguments" end up with this latter conclusion.

 

[hrdboild]

I think that more likely than not, we traded for Williams as he improves our chances in the race to the bottom - the Jabari Parker sweepstakes. By all that I can see, if we force him to play SF, he will not do well as that's the conclusion of Adelman. Adelman could be wrong but if I had to place my bets, I'd be on Adelman's side. He could stay at PF and be a 6'8" PF. He will fight for minutes with PPat and perhaps others. That's not the worst thing in the world but it disrupts the team in the short run. If it all doesn't work out, we can let him go. At the least and I think the most likely result of this trade will be that NEXT YEAR we will have a worse record than if we had kept Mbah a Moute who, in fact, is who we traded for him, not two 2nd rounders. At the best, in a few years we may have a rotational player but if he doesn't make it next year, why keep him? Apparently I like the trade for reasons that other people don't share.

You all are wrong. Or, gasp, we all are right!!! It's amazing how many "arguments" end up with this latter conclusion.

You have to look into this a little deeper than that though. Adelman didn't think Derrick Williams was the right player at SF this year in a system built around Rubio at the point and Kevin Love at PF. Rubio and Love together are going to get the vast majority of the possessions when they're on the floor and he wants shooters on the wing to come off of screens, move the ball, and hit shots. With both Martin and Love averaging almost 18 shots per game this year, you can see why Adelman chose to go with a more typical 3 and D guy in Corey Brewer at SF.

You also have to remember, when Williams was drafted by Minnesota, they already had Beasley at SF who had been a 20ppg scorer the season before. So coming in there was no chance he was going to be handed a starting spot his rookie year -- it was possibly the worst situation for him in the league. Kevin Love was injured most of last season and they don't really have much depth at PF, so Williams was forced into that starting PF role by circumstances not design. It may sound like I'm making excuses for Williams, but I'm just trying to look past the raw numbers and understand what is actually going on.

Every team wants to develop it's young players, but that's not a priority when you have decisions looming on Rubio and Love and an expectation of making the playoffs. You'd think maybe Williams could come in off the bench in Minnesota and lead the second unit but he's not a guy you dump the ball to and let him create either. He excelled at Arizona as a system player, not as a high usage wing.

So he couldn't find a niche on that roster and that system, but that doesn't mean he can't find a role in a different situation. The point being, it's not as simple as saying that Adelman didn't think he was a SF. He was a bench player his rookie season, got pressed into service as the starting PF his second year, and barely got on the floor so far this year. The kid is 22, it's not like he's in a position to be making demands about what's best for his career. On that note, if Williams does impress in Sacramento that's not a condemnation of Adelman either. Different circumstances, different results.

And as a footnote, if you look at how Williams produced last season when he was given starter's minutes (link -- look at Feb, March, April of last season), I don't think any Kings fans would be complaining if we got that level of production from him this season at either forward position. It sure beats what we have been getting.

 

[Glenn]

There is an awful lot of energy being used to make Williams sound good, misunderstood, or in a bad place. Perhaps he isn't any good. He was great in college. So was Jimmer. Anyway, his skill level isn't my major point. Thank goodness we will see him play and put to rest all this excuse making. If he's good, that's great. I like having good players on the Kings. If it takes a few years to get there, better yet. It may allow us to draft a SF. I am just working off the facts as we know them and the attempt to turn what may be a pig into a sow's ear is a fan thing. The desire to make excuses of what Williams has shown in the NBA perplexes me.

If have little faith in PDA and he has to earn my faith. He can crunch numbers but can he evaluate talent? When he signed Landry, it got my attention but in a very negative way. Now he has to show that he can do better than that or somehow the Landry signing was a good thing other than the same old move that we criticized Petrie for. It seems like people protecting his moves are using a lot of theory and guesswork but not any actual experience on the floor. I don't want the Prince for reasons I have already said but it is ironic that the one move PDA made that I think most of us eventually agreed helped the team was traded away. That's a head scratcher. I am usually not critical of anyone until I see they have well earned it. I supported Petrie long after most people abandoned ship for example. What I am saying is that my disappointment with PDA is not because I am usually negative but because I think he has earned my lack of faith.

It is not logical to think that a guy who didn't fit in another system will fit in ours. It is wishful thinking and that is all this trade is for when we talk of talent level. We are hoping. I don't think I have made anything sound simple and in fact have gone beyond the normal tendency to simplify what may be a very complex issue. If you want to discard Adelman's analysis, fine, but don't you think that is working real hard to make it appear everything about this trade made sense. I have given my reasons why this trade makes sense. I don't understand why people are critical. I didn't say it was bad and this need to find fault even with someone who is coming to the same conclusion as you is odd.

 

[Glenn]

I have a simple question: what will the trade of Mbah a Moute for Williams do to our w/l record this year?

 

[jpsls]

I have a simple question: what will the trade of Mbah a Moute for Williams do to our w/l record this year?

Maybe add a couple of losses if he ends up being a bust

 

[pshn80]

I have a simple question: what will the trade of Mbah a Moute for Williams do to our w/l record this year?

I have a simple answer -- I think it will improve our W/L record but probably not by much. It will be fun to follow how he and the team do. Better if it's better.

 

[hrdboild]

It is not logical to think that a guy who didn't fit in another system will fit in ours. It is wishful thinking and that is all this trade is for when we talk of talent level. We are hoping. I don't think I have made anything sound simple and in fact have gone beyond the normal tendency to simplify what may be a very complex issue. If you want to discard Adelman's analysis, fine, but don't you think that is working real hard to make it appear everything about this trade made sense. I have given my reasons why this trade makes sense. I don't understand why people are critical. I didn't say it was bad and this need to find fault even with someone who is coming to the same conclusion as you is odd.

And it is logical to think that a guy who didn't fit on one team in just over 2 years won't be able to fit on the other 29 teams either? It's not as if these types of "bad fit" situations don't happen all the time. I like the trade, and I'm explaining why. To me, Williams was an ideal trade target particularly because he was being mis-utilized by his old team. I've never said that he'll be a superstar, just that I believe he's very talented and for various reasons didn't get to show off what he's capable of on that team. It has nothing to do with PDA for me, just the players involved. You're certainly entitled to your opinion - I don't disagree with everything you said, just the implication that Rick Adelman's word is gospel on this. (And the "he was great in college, so was Jimmer" line also strikes me as an over-simplification which is useless without context)

As for the w/l prediction, I really don't know. My suspicion is that he'll play as well as he did last season as a starter and becomes our number three scorer. If that happens we're maybe +5 wins, but I think other trades are coming.