Philadelphia Inquirer: Scissors get girl in legal trouble (subscription required)
I read it, and I still don't believe it...
I read it, and I still don't believe it...
"Zero Tolerance" gone wrong
- Thread starter Mr. S£im Citrus
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yes, the wonderful soccer-momming of America. Get scared of your own shadow, throw a ridiculous law on the books which has ramifications FAR beyond anything you have considered in your panic, and then team that with bureaucratic foolishness when all that would have been required was a little common sense (no doubt in some sort of equally irrational fear of a lawsuit if they did not follow the letter of the law).
End result, you scar a young girl for life for no reason.
End result, you scar a young girl for life for no reason.
What I'm still stumped over is that, if they thought that the scissors were a threat in any way, why didn't they just take the damned scissors and get on with their lives?
:|
:|
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Well, let's put it this way: if a kid brought a 9mm to school and you found it, would you just take it and send the kid back to class? Or would you be mro than a little worried that the kid would be back with another weapon and husrt somebody?Mr. S£im Citrus said:
The real problem is the chicken-littling of America to the point where ANYTHING, no matter how remote, that could even rmeotely lead to anybody so much as stubbing their toe is escalated into some sort of ridiculous disaster necessitating the most extreme overreactions, for show if nothing else.
Sounds like a common sense issue to me; I don't send the kid back to class, but I don't have him arrested, either. I call the kids parents, and only refer the matter to a higher authority if I get the sense that they don't want to deal with the situation.Bricklayer said:
Common sense went out the window a long time ago. I know some teachers in this area who are literally afraid to even touch a student for fear it might be taken the wrong way. The litiginous nature of America could well be our eventual downfall - not anything from beyond our shores.
Abe Frohman
G-League
First of all, "Porsche?" But that's a whole other discussion.
There was a story from my hometown about a year ago about a kid getting suspended for a week for violating their zero tolerance policy. He told another child (1st graders) on the playground that his wrist watch had a button on it that could set off a bomb.
And zero tolerance does not always mean zero tolerance either. My wife teaches at an elementary school here and a kid brought a huge pocket knife to school and threatened another kid with it, saying he was going to cut him open so his guts would spill out. 2nd graders. His parents had to go to a conference with the principal. No suspension. No police.
There was a story from my hometown about a year ago about a kid getting suspended for a week for violating their zero tolerance policy. He told another child (1st graders) on the playground that his wrist watch had a button on it that could set off a bomb.
And zero tolerance does not always mean zero tolerance either. My wife teaches at an elementary school here and a kid brought a huge pocket knife to school and threatened another kid with it, saying he was going to cut him open so his guts would spill out. 2nd graders. His parents had to go to a conference with the principal. No suspension. No police.
quick dog
Starter
In south Sacramento several years ago, a second-grader, and it wasn't Eric Cartman, was observed stomping across the playground with a .45 automatic in his right hand. He was holding it up with one hand no less, as he stumbled along. A janitor wandered over and removed it from the kid, assuming that it was a toy. It was not, and it was loaded. The janitor had the shakes after he determined that he had just disarmed a kid who was packing heavy heat. The kid was on his way to shoot his teacher. I don't recall the offending gesture.
As a side note, a friend of mine was teaching at that school. He quit shortly thereafter, and got a job working for peanuts in a music store. He had received personal threats from the atendees. In that year, and I don't remember how long ago it was, there were around 600 school atendees Statewide who were caught with firearms at school, most of them in Los Angeles. As I recall, there were only four arrests. Things have obviously changed. Nothing like "zero tollerance" with playground violence.
I was a substitute math teacher for a while many years ago. I had to threaten a kid by admonishing him that I would make him eat his cigarette if he didn't put it out immediately. I didn't own anything in those days. he did.
As a side note, a friend of mine was teaching at that school. He quit shortly thereafter, and got a job working for peanuts in a music store. He had received personal threats from the atendees. In that year, and I don't remember how long ago it was, there were around 600 school atendees Statewide who were caught with firearms at school, most of them in Los Angeles. As I recall, there were only four arrests. Things have obviously changed. Nothing like "zero tollerance" with playground violence.
I was a substitute math teacher for a while many years ago. I had to threaten a kid by admonishing him that I would make him eat his cigarette if he didn't put it out immediately. I didn't own anything in those days. he did.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
The problem as I see it is the recnent trendto "reign in liberal judges" by legeslating extreemly harsh sentences as mandates leaving no room for judges to, or in this case adminastrators to evaluate each case on it's own merrits. This is very reminicent of the way 3 strikes has resulted in med doing life in prision for stealing a slice of Pizza, etc.
quick dog
Starter
I used to live in southeast Sacramento. The "Three Stirkes" legislation made a palpable difference in our neighborhood. There seemed to be fewer residential crimes. Fewer scumbags surveiling cars and garages on bicycle. Fewer gang strollers. Apparently, guys with 15 prior convictions were nervous about catching the "golden bee-bee" of summary justice.
Most residents in the old neighborhood thought that "Three Strikes" was a good idea. I must admit. I have a good friend who's son currently resides at a large stone bed-and-breakfast establishment in northeast Folsom. He's also against the "Three Strikes" deal.
Most residents in the old neighborhood thought that "Three Strikes" was a good idea. I must admit. I have a good friend who's son currently resides at a large stone bed-and-breakfast establishment in northeast Folsom. He's also against the "Three Strikes" deal.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
The question is not do harsh sentences reduce crime (that is a differnet debate) it's about what happens as fall out beceause of them. Zero tollarnce may reduce school violence but part of the price tag is little girs with sisors, young boys with pen knifes etc face very harsh penelties when they forget to take these objects out of their bag.
quick dog
Starter
Three Strikes has nothing to do with suburban political correctness and ridiculous reactions to everyday problems of the lame, useless, and wussy.HndsmCelt said:
My daughter routinely gets searched before boarding planes. A middle-aged woman I know was randomly strip-searched. My daughter inadvertantly boarded a plane with a 5-inch stainless-steel melon-knife in her purse. Nineteen foreign-born, Middle Eastern, jihadist, Muslim men boarded three American passenger planes with box knives and 63 fradulent driver's licenses. I think this clearly demonstrates bureaucratic incompetance and political correctness.
GoGoGadget
All-Star
Everyone knows those paper cutters get jammed to easily to be an effective weapon.HndsmCelt said:
quick dog
Starter
I am upset with the madness of actions taken by the government which don't always follow logic. Why strip-search middle-aged white ladies from Western New York who are flying to northern California to visit their children. Why waste time with young blonde women in shorts and golf shirts while you are supposed to be finding Middle Eastern male terrorists?HndsmCelt said:
I really don't care what they do, but they need to do effective things. Not BS. The Krauts practically stuck a gun in my ribs in the Frankfurt Airport during a check-in search, probably because I don't look like a German. Again, I thought it was funny to have skinny German kids with Glocks telling me what to do in a very serious manner. I think the idea of taking nail clippers from passengers is the height of stupidity. The government should focus on real problems, and forget the nonsense.
GoGoGadget
All-Star
I agree that some of the actions taken post-9/11 are a bit questionable. I personally have had four eyeglasses repair kits confiscated because, apparently, I just might be crazy enough to kill someone with a tiny screwdriver. However, I do not think that the answer is to search people based on race. I've seen far too much of that while travelling, and its quite disgusting.quick dog said:
As for the zero tolerance policies in schools? Its the easy response. Making an effort to actually improve the school environment would take a lot of hard work. Why bother? Just take away scissors. Everyone's safe. No need to address the issues that may actually be causing the violent behavior as long as we thwart this widespread scissor epidemic.
quick dog
Starter
I think racial profiling should be done. I have flown quite a bit. They really do random searchs, at least racially. I think if the authorities have good reason to suspect a specific racial or cultural group, then they ought to chack that group and quit fooling around. It was 19 for 19 in the 911 disaster. Young, non-citizen, Middle Eastern men. Police almost never have an opportunity to identify a group of potential perpetrators like that. It would be no different if you knew for instance that women were smuggling babies into the United States, and you searched old men with no large blanketed packages. The United States needs to get real. Legislators that establish rules for the police and passenger screeners need to be less philosophical and more practical.GoGoGadget said:
My personal physician is a young Iranian man who lived and worked most of his life in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iran. He says he seldom gets checked at airports, and he wouldn't care if he did. According to him, it's the price you pay for living in the greatest country in the world. When the germans rousted me for being a shade too dark, I didn't really care. It was their job to make sure the the covert leader (apparently me) of the Bader-Meinhoff gang didn't reappear in Frankfurt.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Okay, this has kind of spun off into political/social commentary that I think is a bit too heavy for our little Lounge here, so I'm going to close this one down now.
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