You Make the Call

[Nazman]

Haven't had time to check all the posts tonight after a very impressive outing in a tough arena (not to mention that it was the San Antonio Spurs) so forgive me if this has already been discussed...

Play in question is Mike Bibby pokin holes in the SA armor - 3rd quarter- and driving to the hoop for another sure layin and another dagger in the heart of the Spurs attempted comeback until Horry the A-Hole nearly takes his head off.

No flagrant.
Go figure.

Was i missing something or was that one of the more obvious frustration/flagrant fouls of the last several months...

Mike was beside himself.
Lookin around for some kind of justice...

I guess it's cool for the Kings to stay calm at this point in the season but their floor leader nearly got decapitated and hardly a response of any kind other than Bibby's repressed rage.

 

[SLAB]

I agree.

After I watched the replay I looked at my dad and was like "You cannot tell me he just went after the ball..."

Whatever, though...We won, so Im happy!

 

[Bricklayer]

Huh...well, I can't even recall the play so I'm probably going to have to go with not that bad. But could be wrong.

In any case Mike typically starts asking for a call sometime about the time he crosses halfcourt so not sure that's a great indicator. And Horry is weasly and plays for every advanatage, but I've never seen him really thug somebody. If you told me it was Bowen...

 

[Variant]

Eh, I thought it was worse than it looked. Part of the reason Horry didn't get any ball is that Bibby turned himself in the air after Horry had jumped.

It was definitely a hard foul, but I wouldn't say a flagrant... although I was yelling for it to be when it happened

 

[Nazman]

Then on top of that Popovich does something that really suprised me. He pulls the starting lineup w/ about 7 minutes or so to go and in my mind the game not out of reach for all intent and purposes.

What i felt was that it was a strategic move and a bit slimy at that. I think Pop was toyin w/ the Kings.

To me it seemed he pulled the team as kind of a mindgame maneuver. Taking a bit of the luster out of the win by not keeping the starters in for the last crucial run.

I'm not buyin that he needed to rest the starters for a more important Dallas matchup on Friday night. That's not a back to back. It was a mind game.

You make the call...

 

[Alacron]

I thought there were several questionable calls on both sides... not that it made any difference in the outcome.
~~

 

[Nazman]

Huh...well, I can't even recall the play so I'm probably going to have to go with not that bad. But could be wrong.

In any case Mike typically starts asking for a call sometime about the time he crosses halfcourt so not sure that's a great indicator. And Horry is weasly and plays for every advanatage, but I've never seen him really thug somebody. If you told me it was Bowen...

Wish you saw the play. It was clearly a major hack at a guy that was slicin and dicin the best effort they could put out there. He went after his head and it was ugly...

 

[Bricklayer]

Wish you saw the play. It was clearly a major hack at a guy that was slicin and dicin the best effort they could put out there. He went after his head and it was ugly...

I think I recall the play -- Mike ended up on his back.

 

[SacTownKid]

Then on top of that Popovich does something that really suprised me. He pulls the starting lineup w/ about 7 minutes or so to go and in my mind the game not out of reach for all intent and purposes.

What i felt was that it was a strategic move and a bit slimy at that. I think Pop was toyin w/ the Kings.

To me it seemed he pulled the team as kind of a mindgame maneuver. Taking a bit of the luster out of the win by not keeping the starters in for the last crucial run.

I'm not buyin that he needed to rest the starters for a more important Dallas matchup on Friday night. That's not a back to back. It was a mind game.

You make the call...

The only "toying" going on was the Kings "toying" with the Spurs. Pop NEVER wants to lose a game. Tonight was a night where the other team is just whipping your butt. Every time they tried to make a run it was snuffed out like no big deal.

And the foul was flagrant, but you could tell the refs were doing this one like a playoff game, knowing this is likely a 1st round matchup. Still I was more surprised Bonzi didn't rough somebody up. Thats just the kinda guy he is.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think I recall the play -- Mike ended up on his back.

No different play I think. He just kind of crashed into the hoop base and stood up against it. Horry did ring his neck too.

 

[Nazman]

The only "toying" going on was the Kings "toying" with the Spurs. Pop NEVER wants to lose a game. Tonight was a night where the other team is just whipping your butt. Every time they tried to make a run it was snuffed out like no big deal.

And the foul was flagrant, but you could tell the refs were doing this one like a playoff game, knowing this is likely a 1st round matchup. Still I was more surprised Bonzi didn't rough somebody up. Thats just the kinda guy he is.

With all due respect STK i dont' think the Kings were toying w/ anybody. They were playing their hearts out and i would venture that is what it's gonna take for them to be in any game w/ the Spurs. Playing smart and playing hard. Hell we had our starters in throughout the 4th w/ a pretty good lead. RA wasn't takin any chances.

I think the Popovich maneuver was a bit of posturing and i just don't have a good feeling about it. Was just puttin it up for discussion. Of course it's my perception but it kind of startled me so much that it kind got me thinkin. Was just wonderin if anyone else had similar thoughts.

May sound odd and peculiar for those of you who don't follow women's tennis but this year in the Australian Open finals Henin-Hardenne walked out of a match in the second set of the Women's final w/o finishing a match that Mauresmo had wrapped up. Became a very hot and controversial topic for a few days after the Open. Had a similar feeling when he pulled the starters. Just felt really odd to see em do it.

Of course everyone can say it doesn't matter we won the game. And i guess you're right. But Popovich like someone said doesn't like to lose. He's crafty. I'd love to beat em....

 

[Padrino]

Then on top of that Popovich does something that really suprised me. He pulls the starting lineup w/ about 7 minutes or so to go and in my mind the game not out of reach for all intent and purposes.

What i felt was that it was a strategic move and a bit slimy at that. I think Pop was toyin w/ the Kings.

To me it seemed he pulled the team as kind of a mindgame maneuver. Taking a bit of the luster out of the win by not keeping the starters in for the last crucial run.

I'm not buyin that he needed to rest the starters for a more important Dallas matchup on Friday night. That's not a back to back. It was a mind game.

You make the call...

this conspiracy is a bit far fetched, but i do think it was a mind game...though i think it was one that pop was playing on his own players. going into the game it was pretty clear who should come out on top. with 7 minutes left to go into the fourth, it was clear that the team projected to win was, in all likelihood, going to lose. pop pulls his starters when they do not play up to his expectations. through 3 quarters + 5 minutes, the spurs starters had given pop no reason to believe that they could pull off the come back, so he sends them another one of his messages. this seems more likely to me.

pop doesn't care if there's "luster" in the kings victory or not. he cares about his team protecting its home court...especially against the team that the spurs are going to have homecourt advantage over in the first round. the kings have proved to themselves and the league that they can beat the spurs in san antonio. it may only be one regular season game, and the spurs may have been off (though i thought the kings played very solid defense through much of the game), but a win on the road against SA is a big victory...and that confidence will mean a lot to sacramento come playoff time. the kings probably will not win that series, but at least they know that they can beat the spurs on the road. remember: all you need to do is protect your home court and steal one on the road in the playoffs...

 

[Nazman]

this conspiracy is a bit far fetched, but i do think it was a mind game...though i think it was one that pop was playing on his own players. going into the game it was pretty clear who should come out on top. with 7 minutes left to go into the fourth, it was clear that the team projected to win was, in all likelihood, going to lose. pop pulls his starters when they do not play up to his expectations. through 3 quarters + 5 minutes, the spurs starters had given pop no reason to believe that they could pull off the come back, so he sends them another one of his messages. this seems more likely to me.

pop doesn't care if there's "luster" in the kings victory or not. he cares about his team protecting its home court...especially against the team that the spurs are going to have homecourt advantage over in the first round. the kings have proved to themselves and the league that they can beat the spurs in san antonio. it may only be one regular season game, and the spurs may have been off (though i thought the kings played very solid defense through much of the game), but a win on the road against SA is a big victory...and that confidence will mean a lot to sacramento come playoff time. the kings probably will not win that series, but at least they know that they can beat the spurs on the road. remember: all you need to do is protect your home court and steal one on the road in the playoffs...

That makes a lot of sense...

 

[SLAB]

About the foul, correct me if Im worng, but didn't Walton say something about how "It's not like Robert Horry to deliver that type of hard foul."

Or something along those lines?

 

[Nazman]

Didn't watch the game that Walton called. Had the home team telecast w/ Napear and Reynolds and they both made some comment about it being a flagrant but then moved on fairly quickly which i suppose was understandable given that we were in a good place in this matchup by that point. But i hate Horry and i hate that he got away w/ it and this is just my chance to blow off some steam about it. Maybe what goes around comes around.

 

[dukeswh]

this conspiracy is a bit far fetched, but i do think it was a mind game...though i think it was one that pop was playing on his own players. going into the game it was pretty clear who should come out on top. with 7 minutes left to go into the fourth, it was clear that the team projected to win was, in all likelihood, going to lose. pop pulls his starters when they do not play up to his expectations. through 3 quarters + 5 minutes, the spurs starters had given pop no reason to believe that they could pull off the come back, so he sends them another one of his messages. this seems more likely to me.

pop doesn't care if there's "luster" in the kings victory or not. he cares about his team protecting its home court...especially against the team that the spurs are going to have homecourt advantage over in the first round. the kings have proved to themselves and the league that they can beat the spurs in san antonio. it may only be one regular season game, and the spurs may have been off (though i thought the kings played very solid defense through much of the game), but a win on the road against SA is a big victory...and that confidence will mean a lot to sacramento come playoff time. the kings probably will not win that series, but at least they know that they can beat the spurs on the road. remember: all you need to do is protect your home court and steal one on the road in the playoffs...

I'm with you here. I think Pop only did what most coaches would do. His starters are not getting it done so he pulls them out and let the bench get the minutes. Usually this would result in a rally, as the bench will be really energetic. So i'm glad Adelman did not pull out the starters right away.

 

[Elise10]

Horry should have kept his arms straight up as he had them originally had them. Instead, he then brought them back down on Mike.

Already five technicals called in the game(never mind that your best defender/enforcer Artest has one of them), no one was risking another one. I'd take Mike's way of dealing with frustration better anyway: Everytime they went on a run either Mike scored or set up the play for someone else to score.

 

[Fear the Putin]

this kinda relates to this topic
....but whoever watched the game...dont you think the Spurs get away with so much c ra p ??

I cant stand watching Ginobli anymore. Hes like kobe. He cries about everything even when he flops.
Artest lost control of the ball and ginobli reached and wrapped his hand around artests...they called a jumpball....artest jumped in disbelief and they called a tech!!!!
That horry on bibby foul was clearly a flagrant. Horry had his long hose arms wrapped around bibby's throat in the air.

 

[bibbinator]

I figured Pop pulled the starters because the game was effectively done with 7 minutes left. I know, it's the Kings, and they can lose it at any point, but it was clear they weren't going to let go of this one tonight. Putting in his bench just gave them some good minutes against the Kings starters.

Also, I saw Parker limping around during the 4th. He was being helped trhough the tunnel at the game's end - had his arm around someone's shoulder.

The Kings played the final minutes with minimal intensity, just enough to keep their lead. They were running the clock, playing slow and easy, just well enough to keep the lead. That was the right thing to do. If RA had put in his 2nd squad and they somehow lost it, it would just have been too much.

 

[VF21]

I actually scared my boss at work when that little incident occurred. I don't usually scream at the TV like that, especially not in the office.

It was IMHO clearly a flagrant foul. I was proud of the way Bibby responded; this Kings team has a lot of composure going for them and I think the teams they face are going to be more than a little surprised. The amount of whining has declined considerably and even Brad has quit making his "bitter beer face" so often.

 

[Bricklayer]

this kinda relates to this topic
....but whoever watched the game...dont you think the Spurs get away with so much c ra p ??

I cant stand watching Ginobli anymore. Hes like kobe. He cries about everything even when he flops.
Artest lost control of the ball and ginobli reached and wrapped his hand around artests...they called a jumpball....artest jumped in disbelief and they called a tech!!!!
That horry on bibby foul was clearly a flagrant. Horry had his long hose arms wrapped around bibby's throat in the air.

If you go around to other team's messageboards you will find a remarkable thing -- it seems that EVERY team in the league gets preferential treatment by the refs. That is every team that is not your own. Odd, and seems statistically dubious, but I have yet to fid a fandom not completely convinced the refs favor every other team they play.

 

[hoops4kings]

It WAS a hard foul, a hack, but the refs were letting a lot go tonight (they sucked).

Bad call? Probably. Typical for the game? Most defintitely (in the words of Bobby Jackson).

 

[West_Gunslinger16]

If you go around to other team's messageboards you will find a remarkable thing -- it seems that EVERY team in the league gets preferential treatment by the refs. That is every team that is not your own. Odd, and seems statistically dubious, but I have yet to fid a fandom not completely convinced the refs favor every other team they play.

Buy the SPURS DO get away with everything. Because in our country they always show Spurs games. Nothin' to watch but the Spurs! I think almost 70% of their games are shown here. And you can see MANY questionable calls. I think NBA wants the Spurs to win the Championship because they are strengthening the Texas franchise to get the strong marketing again (to get same marketing strength as the past strongest franchise CHICAGO BULLS Jordan ERA). NBA became weak since the retirement of Jordan. That's why almost 70% of their games are shown here! (another marketing ploy by the NBA TV, showing almost 70% of the Spurs games here but Detroit turns out to be a better team without the REFS' help)

P.S. One more thing don't you guys notice the TOP 25 Jersey Sales. Whoever gets in the Top 25 gets the "special treatment" from the refs.

David Stern: OMG they're onto us! (just kidding)

 

[West_Gunslinger16]

NBA.com says: Bibby Scores 31, Kings Defeat Spurs.

As if that the NBA were crying while they're posting this. They didn't even acknowledge the 8th Seed SACRAMENTO (soon to be Anaheim or Las Vegas) KINGS BEATING the 1st (and the heavily favored) Seed Spurs. Well the NBA
did acknowledge everybody but the KINGS.

 

[Diehard Jim]

This was definately a Flagrant and should have been called just for the fact that in real time you could see he went for Bibbys head not the ball.
As far as the spurs getting calls, This is what happens when you are the Champs.
It is funny that Adleman is known as a complainer among nba coaches but I will say he is not even in the same class of complainer as Popovich or Sloan, I do not think these guys have ever thought there team has gotten a foul call.
It would be nice to see a list of the amount of Technical fouls picked up by a head coach, then have them suspended for a game after the 16th like the players are.
As far as the game last night I though Danny Crawford was doing the game with how quick the T's were flying.

 

[Nazman]

I'm not even thinking about preferential treatment. I am thinking about protecting players for uncalled for abuse. And in this case a very valuable player.

The fact is that Bibby was putting it to the Spurs. He was playing his *** off. Carrying the Kings in the biggest game of the year as we near the playoffs.

A-hole Horry who has how many rings and bigshots can't quite accept that he's getting beat. He was clearly frustrated and he clearly was acting out and it was clearly fragrant and in my mind dangerous although fortunately Mike Bibby wasn't hurt.

IMHO opinion that is a call you have to make. To protect players who are doing their job, earning their pay even though it was clearly pissing Robert Horry off.

He got away w/ it. It happens, of course. Like VF21 I was screaming at that ref/TV/Horry. First time all year. Didn't make much difference. But i'm stickin to the story. You have to protect players.

 

[Folsom Al]

Yeah, I recall the play .... and yet another NON-CALL

Gotta keep on playin'

I noticed Ron won't get a call - heck, he ends up on the floor 3/4th's the time he drives to the rim ... is he flopping, or just losing his balance ... but, at times he is fouled and gets nothing .... but, what I've noticed is he just gets up and goes and plays defense.

Adelman did the right thing in getting a "T" called on him ... I don't recall if that waas the play or not - the Bibby Decapitation

Heck, I'd like to see Adelman get thrown-out for standing up for his guys ...

 

[allrightythen]

I recall the play and it did look suspect in my mind, but I was impressed with how the Kings just played on without much fanfare. It didn't appear that Horry had any intention of blocking the shot, but instead went straight for Bibby's head.

I thought there were bad calls both directions. The refs just weren't very good, it seems to be a stretch to say that they were favoring one team or the other. At the beginning of the game I had a thought that maybe they were favoring the Champs a bit, but as the game wore on I realized they were just missing calls.

 

[N.U.F.A.N.]

Then on top of that Popovich does something that really suprised me. He pulls the starting lineup w/ about 7 minutes or so to go and in my mind the game not out of reach for all intent and purposes.

What i felt was that it was a strategic move and a bit slimy at that. I think Pop was toyin w/ the Kings.

To me it seemed he pulled the team as kind of a mindgame maneuver. Taking a bit of the luster out of the win by not keeping the starters in for the last crucial run.

I'm not buyin that he needed to rest the starters for a more important Dallas matchup on Friday night. That's not a back to back. It was a mind game.

You make the call...

Tell me... what NBA team, or ANY basketball team do you know that actually throws games away?

As far as i remember, when i used to play for my high school team. no matter how weak the team was, and no matter how good our record was, we would have to bring our best every game.

But why in the world would someone TOY WITH ANOTHER TEAM AND END UP LOSING.

hell if you were TOYING with a team you would make sure you come out with the win right?

since the team is that easy that you would toy with them, it should have been an easy win for the spurs.

You cant just say a team was toying with the kings and they end up losing. that makes no sense.

But the reason he pulled out the starters was to give the starters a lesson. As a wake-up call if you wanna call it that. I remember clearly in my high school games that if the starters were doing really bad, not running the plays right, not following what our coach told us to do, he would pull out all of us and put in the reserves. no matter what time in the game it was. it only motivates you to work harder.

 

[Ryle]

Then on top of that Popovich does something that really suprised me. He pulls the starting lineup w/ about 7 minutes or so to go and in my mind the game not out of reach for all intent and purposes.

What i felt was that it was a strategic move and a bit slimy at that. I think Pop was toyin w/ the Kings.

To me it seemed he pulled the team as kind of a mindgame maneuver. Taking a bit of the luster out of the win by not keeping the starters in for the last crucial run.

I'm not buyin that he needed to rest the starters for a more important Dallas matchup on Friday night. That's not a back to back. It was a mind game.

You make the call...

I just think he wanted to shake the team up a bit. This game didn't mean much to the Spurs and they can pretty much wrap up the #1 seed in the conference with a win against Dallas tomorrow. Probably just resting his starters because they really weren't giving him much and he wanted to see if the bench could maybe give them a spark and bring them back.