Their last pick(maybe last 2?) got max draft money (120% rookie guaranteed contract from the current cba).... They were disappointed they just want to make some of his money come from incentives which also is fairly standard. Now if the incentives are way out of line that may be why him and his agent aren't signing but its common to put that extra 20% into incentives.
Xavier Henry?
- Thread starter DoDiGaG0
- Start date
Well, there's been a lot of discussion here about averages that I've tried not to weigh in on, but being invoked...
Your defintions of median and mean above are correct. Medians and means have precise defintions. Average, on the other hand, is a bit of an imprecise term. It is usually used to refer to the mean, but other measures of central tendency such as median and mode can also be claimed to be "averages" without doing violence to the definition of the word average.
The discussion above has been made more difficult by the fact that there is not a widely-accepted single number that can be used to gauge the value of a basketball player (starting shooting guard in this case). This makes things very very subjective. If one uses the term "above-average starting shooting guard", it will bring up different impressions in different people - not only of which players are above-average starting shooting guards, but also how many above-average starting shooting guards there ought to be. In fact, it's not even clear how many starting shooting guards there are to begin with. The obvious answer - 30 - is complicated by the fact that some teams don't have a regular starter, some teams have injured players with another guy starting, guys like Ginobili are "starter-quality" but don't start...etc.
In the end, all of this discussion over the term "above-average" is probably not productive. If instead of "above-average", the term "about 15th-best" had been used, it would have saved quite a bit of argument over a peripheral issue, and allowed the argument to stay where it belonged: about how good might Xavier Henry be?
That's my take.
Your defintions of median and mean above are correct. Medians and means have precise defintions. Average, on the other hand, is a bit of an imprecise term. It is usually used to refer to the mean, but other measures of central tendency such as median and mode can also be claimed to be "averages" without doing violence to the definition of the word average.
The discussion above has been made more difficult by the fact that there is not a widely-accepted single number that can be used to gauge the value of a basketball player (starting shooting guard in this case). This makes things very very subjective. If one uses the term "above-average starting shooting guard", it will bring up different impressions in different people - not only of which players are above-average starting shooting guards, but also how many above-average starting shooting guards there ought to be. In fact, it's not even clear how many starting shooting guards there are to begin with. The obvious answer - 30 - is complicated by the fact that some teams don't have a regular starter, some teams have injured players with another guy starting, guys like Ginobili are "starter-quality" but don't start...etc.
In the end, all of this discussion over the term "above-average" is probably not productive. If instead of "above-average", the term "about 15th-best" had been used, it would have saved quite a bit of argument over a peripheral issue, and allowed the argument to stay where it belonged: about how good might Xavier Henry be?
That's my take.
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My impression is that, yes, it's been pretty quietly accepted. But one never knows whether those performance incentives were mostly easy to achieve in the past and Henry's might be harder. I don't know how many of the contracts are set up like that...I can't find the info again, I might have seen it in a tweet rather than a regular post. Anyway, my impression was that for the 2009 draft, he made a list of the players who got 120% without performance incentives rather than with. (I think Evans and Casspi were without, but there may have only been about 5-10 names on the list.)
So it's quite a risk for them to accept that.. I mean it's not that far out that we'll end up with a top 10 pick.
I thought that if such a thing happens then we get this draft pick but it continues untill we get a pick under the 10 spot.. but if thats the case I doubt they'll accept anything under 8 or even higher to be on the safe-side.
I thought that if such a thing happens then we get this draft pick but it continues untill we get a pick under the 10 spot.. but if thats the case I doubt they'll accept anything under 8 or even higher to be on the safe-side.
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Almost always in a protected pick deal its a contingent sequence such as "Top 10 protected 2011" "Top 15 protected 2012" "unprotected 2013" or sume such. Basically the team you are trading with is always going to end up with a pick from you at some point, the protections are just to try to control how and when. When you are a team on the rise you make sure they don't get to nab a pick from you while it will still be high lottery, and push it off to some future time when you'll be better and your pick will come later in the draft.
Thanks for the clarification, Thanks for the Capt. Factorial.
Can't believe there is such a debate on mean vs. median. But yes, you're right when average is mentioned, it is usually refers to the mean, not the median. In fact, even the social security website made an effort to distinguish the average from the median. When the median is used, it should explicitly say the "median." When the mean is used, it says the "average." That has always been the standard.
NBA uses the mean (aka average) in all their stats, as far as I know. Points per game, rebounds per game, what have you.
I have to trace back to see why was this even brought up. Oh yes, it steamed from a debate about the ability to sign a quality SG for the MLE, hence the arguing over what constitutes an "above average" shooting guard.
With that said, it's a long shot that the Grizz trade away Henry, and it's an even longer shot that they trade him away to the Kings. Sure, Henry may feel slighted, but whatever, he's getting paid a lot of money regardless, he's going to play in the NBA, and this situation is going to be resolved, you can bet on it. When the season starts, Henry will suit up for the Grizz, that's the way it goes.
Can't believe there is such a debate on mean vs. median. But yes, you're right when average is mentioned, it is usually refers to the mean, not the median. In fact, even the social security website made an effort to distinguish the average from the median. When the median is used, it should explicitly say the "median." When the mean is used, it says the "average." That has always been the standard.
NBA uses the mean (aka average) in all their stats, as far as I know. Points per game, rebounds per game, what have you.
I have to trace back to see why was this even brought up. Oh yes, it steamed from a debate about the ability to sign a quality SG for the MLE, hence the arguing over what constitutes an "above average" shooting guard.
With that said, it's a long shot that the Grizz trade away Henry, and it's an even longer shot that they trade him away to the Kings. Sure, Henry may feel slighted, but whatever, he's getting paid a lot of money regardless, he's going to play in the NBA, and this situation is going to be resolved, you can bet on it. When the season starts, Henry will suit up for the Grizz, that's the way it goes.
So what would Memphis want that the Kings could trade for Xavier...
Whiteside for Thabeet's contract and Xavier?
Conely & Xavier for Beno (I noticed they do not want Conley as their starting PG)? or for Whiteside (this would save them lots of $$)?
Xavier + ? for Landry?
(I ran all of these in RealGM TradeChecker, but since Xavier does not have a deal I had to make assumptions, so I did not post them)
Whiteside for Thabeet's contract and Xavier?
Conely & Xavier for Beno (I noticed they do not want Conley as their starting PG)? or for Whiteside (this would save them lots of $$)?
Xavier + ? for Landry?
(I ran all of these in RealGM TradeChecker, but since Xavier does not have a deal I had to make assumptions, so I did not post them)
No settlement with Xavier... with Memphis signing a bunch of wings this season, he seems like an expendible piece for them if they can get some value. They are over the cap, so any trade with them would require the Kings taking on more salary they are giving up, so for a Landry for X trade, Thabeet or someone would need to be involved. Would be nice if the Kings could steal X away from Memphis somehow...
I agree that the "average" assessment is retarded
Xavier is a great shooter with very good defensive potential
He's a poor passer and it seems like he's not going to be someone who can consistently create for himself and will play off the ball(which is actually a good thing considering Tyreke is going to handle the ball 90% of the time)
example: Bruce Bowen(more polished O, less D), Jim Jackson(later end career), Trevor Ariza(lakers version), Tayshaun Prince(with more bulk)
Xavier is a great shooter with very good defensive potential
He's a poor passer and it seems like he's not going to be someone who can consistently create for himself and will play off the ball(which is actually a good thing considering Tyreke is going to handle the ball 90% of the time)
example: Bruce Bowen(more polished O, less D), Jim Jackson(later end career), Trevor Ariza(lakers version), Tayshaun Prince(with more bulk)
I'd say a big no on this one.
Offensively, Henry's a well-preferred three point shooter and can really shoot them; however, with his lack of mid-range shots, poor mid-range shooting and good but not great free throw shooting, color me skeptical that he's a pure shooter; just a good shooter is more like it. Henry rarely takes shots inside and doesn't finish too well either, and will only dunk occasionally, and he doesn't really get tip-ins with his lack of zest for rebounding. His passing ability is relatively below average, but he doesn't turn the ball over either, so he knows his limitations as a role-playing niche specialist. It's just that he appears to be very one-dimensional offensively, largely as a good three point shooter (and not even a great one). His offensive impact was middling with Kansas last year.
Physically, Henry would fit in with the NBA, but won't stand out; he looks like an average-sized SF with decent leaping ability and lateral quickness, but only that, although he has good transition speed. He's lacking strength at the moment and that can hinder him against some matchups, but off-the-ball he does possess a long wingspan though and a knack for intercepting passes. His team defense appears to be very questionable though, and he's also quite a poor rebounder for his position on both ends of the court.
I know Henry's had James Posey comparisons bandied about him with the three point shooting/stealing knack, but I think Henry really lacks the strength and defensive instincts here. His upside is really that of a niche role player, with his uni-dimensional offensive game, but there's actually bust potential because if he doesn't develop defensively I don't think there's much that he can really hang his hat on to gain minutes. He's really a SF type in terms of game, and with Casspi, Garcia, and Greene capable of manning minutes here we already have enough young SFs, and Henry's not enticing enough for me at all to be worth a flyer on.
Offensively, Henry's a well-preferred three point shooter and can really shoot them; however, with his lack of mid-range shots, poor mid-range shooting and good but not great free throw shooting, color me skeptical that he's a pure shooter; just a good shooter is more like it. Henry rarely takes shots inside and doesn't finish too well either, and will only dunk occasionally, and he doesn't really get tip-ins with his lack of zest for rebounding. His passing ability is relatively below average, but he doesn't turn the ball over either, so he knows his limitations as a role-playing niche specialist. It's just that he appears to be very one-dimensional offensively, largely as a good three point shooter (and not even a great one). His offensive impact was middling with Kansas last year.
Physically, Henry would fit in with the NBA, but won't stand out; he looks like an average-sized SF with decent leaping ability and lateral quickness, but only that, although he has good transition speed. He's lacking strength at the moment and that can hinder him against some matchups, but off-the-ball he does possess a long wingspan though and a knack for intercepting passes. His team defense appears to be very questionable though, and he's also quite a poor rebounder for his position on both ends of the court.
I know Henry's had James Posey comparisons bandied about him with the three point shooting/stealing knack, but I think Henry really lacks the strength and defensive instincts here. His upside is really that of a niche role player, with his uni-dimensional offensive game, but there's actually bust potential because if he doesn't develop defensively I don't think there's much that he can really hang his hat on to gain minutes. He's really a SF type in terms of game, and with Casspi, Garcia, and Greene capable of manning minutes here we already have enough young SFs, and Henry's not enticing enough for me at all to be worth a flyer on.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=tsn-166010
teams are making offers, hopefully we're one of them...
teams are making offers, hopefully we're one of them...
If he's a true SG AND not a SF, AND his skillset is a good match for our team, AND he's got the personality of a role player; go for it. Just make sure you don't offer more than a future top 10 pick for him.
I haven't seen him play, but I'd rather have the 12th pick this year over next year. At some point I'd like to stop aquiring ingredients and let the recipe bake for a while. A young role playing SG is pretty much the only ingredient we're missing.
My only concern would be overpaying for a luxury, not a need. Garcia and Beno can cover SG just fine.
I haven't seen him play, but I'd rather have the 12th pick this year over next year. At some point I'd like to stop aquiring ingredients and let the recipe bake for a while. A young role playing SG is pretty much the only ingredient we're missing.
My only concern would be overpaying for a luxury, not a need. Garcia and Beno can cover SG just fine.