Oh, rebuilding. We've never tried that before.
Will Cousins ever figure it out?... [EDIT] I think we're seeing it!
- Thread starter Merdiesel
- Start date
Oh, rebuilding. We've never tried that before.
The NBA is a guard's league now. If we were to trade Cousins, I'd want an elite guard or Ben Simmons.
It's only taken Minnesota 1 year to "recover" from the Kevin Love trade.
If we can land a franchise changing player like Andrew Wiggins, it would be a huge success for this team.
I think that trading Cousins is a very bad move and here's why- you talk about trading him and going for a rebuild, there are a couple different ways you can do rebuild:
1. Blow everything up and start over through the draft (imo what most people mean when they say rebuild):
If you go this route you'll trade DMC and the other veterans you can get value for (Gay, Rondo, DC and KK most likely- which have limited to very limited trade value), and build through picks you acquire and your own high lottery picks via tanking.
Besides the fact that going this way means that your team will suck when you open the new arena, and that you will no doubt add to one of the league's longest playoff droughts- the conditions we have now aren't suitable for this move.
Our young talent/long-term players in that case are WCS and Ben- both showed some promise (WCS more so) but those are not exactly pieces you want to build around as your main cornerstones.
The far worse part is that you have no control over your own pick, you can't win the lottery in 2016 or 17 (since if you do the 76ers will get it) which limits your options, (Minnesota would look much less intriguing without KAT) and while this year since the 76ers suck the swap isn't that big of a deal it can change in 2017.
Either if the owner gets tired of the "process" or if they get enough young talent to build on this draft since they hold OKC's and Miami's first rounders along with the Lakers top 3 protected pick which can be REALLY good (Simmons and Murray/Dunn is completely possible for them) and then they may outsource their tanking to the DMC-less Kings (like the Celics-Nets situation). and let's not forget the 2019 unprotected pick we owe them.
So basically you will try to build through the draft, when you don't control your pick in 3 out of 4 years (and in the last one it's simply not yours).
So that kind of rebuild is out of the question.
2. Acquire some good players with young talent:
This is your move if you think that DMC is a problem and if you'll gather some decent players in his place, including some young players you can build around, the team will be better off.
Let's give some imaginary deals in that nature:
PHX- DMC for Markieff, Len and Booker
DEN- DMC for Faried, Nurkic and Harris
ORL- DMC (and maybe DC/Ben) for Vucevic, Gordon and Hezonja
This trades give you some decent present and a hopefull future, if you are going to trade Cousins I'd like it to be in this way (and those trades are imo exactly what Karl would have wanted).
None of this players are even near DMC's level (Vucevic is the closest, but he is far far away), but you can be competitive with this moves- however I believe that your ceiling will be lower than it would be if you could make the roster (and coaching) adjustments needed.
3. Trade a star for a star:
This is your move if you think DMC is the problem and would like to replace him for a lesser star with what will be framed as "better attitude" or a player that "fits the style of current NBA".
Some imaginary deals in that nature:
CHA- DMC and DC/Rondo for Kemba and Al Jefferson
PHX- DMC and DC for Bledsoe and Tucker
This kind of deals limits your upside and are harder to find.
In conclusion, trading a 25 years old top 10 player is almost always a bad call- especially if he is on a bargain contract that isn't about to expire. you do that only if it's your only option (Minnesota knew that Love is about to walk), and that's not the case.
If you add rhat we are in a bad position to rely on tanking and that we have very limited young talent to build around- it's really hard to find a situation in which trading Cousins is the right move.
1. Blow everything up and start over through the draft (imo what most people mean when they say rebuild):
If you go this route you'll trade DMC and the other veterans you can get value for (Gay, Rondo, DC and KK most likely- which have limited to very limited trade value), and build through picks you acquire and your own high lottery picks via tanking.
Besides the fact that going this way means that your team will suck when you open the new arena, and that you will no doubt add to one of the league's longest playoff droughts- the conditions we have now aren't suitable for this move.
Our young talent/long-term players in that case are WCS and Ben- both showed some promise (WCS more so) but those are not exactly pieces you want to build around as your main cornerstones.
The far worse part is that you have no control over your own pick, you can't win the lottery in 2016 or 17 (since if you do the 76ers will get it) which limits your options, (Minnesota would look much less intriguing without KAT) and while this year since the 76ers suck the swap isn't that big of a deal it can change in 2017.
Either if the owner gets tired of the "process" or if they get enough young talent to build on this draft since they hold OKC's and Miami's first rounders along with the Lakers top 3 protected pick which can be REALLY good (Simmons and Murray/Dunn is completely possible for them) and then they may outsource their tanking to the DMC-less Kings (like the Celics-Nets situation). and let's not forget the 2019 unprotected pick we owe them.
So basically you will try to build through the draft, when you don't control your pick in 3 out of 4 years (and in the last one it's simply not yours).
So that kind of rebuild is out of the question.
2. Acquire some good players with young talent:
This is your move if you think that DMC is a problem and if you'll gather some decent players in his place, including some young players you can build around, the team will be better off.
Let's give some imaginary deals in that nature:
PHX- DMC for Markieff, Len and Booker
DEN- DMC for Faried, Nurkic and Harris
ORL- DMC (and maybe DC/Ben) for Vucevic, Gordon and Hezonja
This trades give you some decent present and a hopefull future, if you are going to trade Cousins I'd like it to be in this way (and those trades are imo exactly what Karl would have wanted).
None of this players are even near DMC's level (Vucevic is the closest, but he is far far away), but you can be competitive with this moves- however I believe that your ceiling will be lower than it would be if you could make the roster (and coaching) adjustments needed.
3. Trade a star for a star:
This is your move if you think DMC is the problem and would like to replace him for a lesser star with what will be framed as "better attitude" or a player that "fits the style of current NBA".
Some imaginary deals in that nature:
CHA- DMC and DC/Rondo for Kemba and Al Jefferson
PHX- DMC and DC for Bledsoe and Tucker
This kind of deals limits your upside and are harder to find.
In conclusion, trading a 25 years old top 10 player is almost always a bad call- especially if he is on a bargain contract that isn't about to expire. you do that only if it's your only option (Minnesota knew that Love is about to walk), and that's not the case.
If you add rhat we are in a bad position to rely on tanking and that we have very limited young talent to build around- it's really hard to find a situation in which trading Cousins is the right move.
K
KingMilz
Guest
If we can't move Cousins i would not mind trying to ship Rudy and Rondo to the also struggling Suns in return for Bledsoe(friends since college) /Morris (who they want to move and has not played well at all this year) and hopefully Tucker as well. That would be ideal instead of trading Cousins atm. The big 3 we have now is going nowhere.
randymoss1881
Starter
**** we doing this trade Cousins nonsense again!!
Showtime
Starter
Uh...trading Mitch got the team C-Webb and started their contending playoff run, which was the best move that ever happened in the Sacramento era, second being acquiring Vlade. Probably not the best example if you are arguing against a move.
You appear to have misspelled "back to back Number One Overall picks."
Huh, I guess that means that, apparently, at least two people didn't get @Iced Espresso's point. The point wasn't that the trade didn't work out. The point was that we had a HOF player for seven years, and we were bad the whole time, and at no point during those years was anyone on the Graffiti Board or the Bleacher Mob forums (since KF.com was still essentially @Glenn's blog back then) calling for Rock to be traded for the good of the team. That trade, when it happened, took a lot of people by surprise, and was met with no small amount of resistance.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Not with Vlade in charge. These are much different circumstances
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Mitch was a solid leader by example. Someone who makes others better, with his attitude before, during, and after games
rhythmless
Starter
Mitch was nicknamed the rock. Much like the mailman, it was a reference not only to his size for a sg, but his consistency night in and night out. If you watched last night's game, that isn't DMC. And that's why this thread even exists. When it's good it's great. When it's bad he takes himself out of the game and hurts his teammates. He doesn't look for other ways to help. It's either dominate or everyone's against me and I am frustrated. We could have eeked out this game. He helped ensure that wouldn't happen. These games are the ones you need to get if you want to be a winner in the league.
I don't want to trade him bc I very much doubt our ability to get anything of return, but I definitely see why this thread exists.
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ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Explore trades for our coach? Maybe a potential hall of fame type resume has some value on the market?
John Galt
Starter
Explore trades for our coach? Maybe a potential hall of fame type resume has some value on the market?
If we do that we can't present it like "nothing personal - we're grateful for his service - it's just a matter of George's health needing to come first", which is probably what Vivek & Vlade are angling for in the not too distant future.
I'd do this 3-team trade with Cousins and Gay:
Blazers
Rudy Gay
Ben McLemore
Wizards
DeMarcus Cousins
Marco Belinelli
James Anderson
Kings
Bradley Beal
CJ McCollum
Otto Porter Jr.
Mason Plumlee
Nene
Everybody wins. Blazers get a real 2nd option, and a development guy in Ben who's a good 3pt shooter. Ben isn't CJ McCollum, but they already have Crabbe who can knock down 3s at even a better rate than Ben.
Wizards would love to pair John Wall and Cousins. I'd give them Marco to fill in their hole at SG. He's shown that he can be an elite SG in the NBA.
Kings get a real starting backcourt in CJ McCollum/Bradley Beal. Otto Porter Jr is a young player who could turn into a starting SF. Plumlee is a solid PF/C.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Right, but they don't necessarily have to go with that reason,....assuming he still wants to coach. Unless he's changed his mind in the last 2 months, which is possible
Played both sides of the ball at a HOF level every year here no matter the lack of talent around him.
Never complained, just went out and earned his paycheck every damn night. We were lucky to call him a King.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Yup, one of my all time favorites. Doug Christie...very similar in attitude and 'outlook'.
BTW, what is Mitch doing now? I lost track of him after everything that happened last season
I think that this is mostly a win for the Wizards (and one general note, when I'm going through this trade ideas I always like the trade for the team that get DMC- and that means something), though they seem to really like Beal and Porter showed a lot of promise it's a deal they'll gladly take (the only exception to this I think they'll have is dealing away Gortat- possibly to a 3rd party- in place of Nene's expiring).
John Wall and DMC pairing is right at the top of league duo's and it will make for a much better Durant hometown pitch (Wall-Durant-DMC will make them a perennial title contenders).
I don't see the Blazers doing that deal- they hit full rebuild once they lost LMA, and if they wanted a good starting SF they would have kept Batum- and since they are in full-rebuild I doubt they value Gay higher than McCollum who is young, showed a ton of promise and is under their control now in a rookie contract and will be a restricted FA. I also think that Ben has lower value than Mason Plumlee right now, and this deal eats some of their coveted cap space- so I think they'll say no.
Lastly, like I said I'm against trading Cousins since I don't think you can get enough for me to give up on him right now, but as far as trades goes I that this is the direction you wanna go... a young teams on contracts you can extend with a young core of McCollum-Beal-Porter-WCS-Plumlee is a pretty good starting point if you trust your GM to manage free agency.
But it's still a worse core than one that has DMC in it.
Iced Espresso
Starter
Trading him for a youthful Webber.
Most of the deals floating around are picks and lesser prospects.
You aware of any Webber caliber players we could get for Cousins?
If not, why the haste to trade a 25 year old All Star?
Iced Espresso
Starter
Exactly and we got Webber in return.
These guys want fringe all stars, or picks.
Cousins is only 25. Mitch was 32 when we moved him. I'm in no hurry to rebuild.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Whoever gets Cousins in a trade, wins the trade. Analysis complete.
K
KingMilz
Guest
What if its for the Greek freak and another good young piece from the Bucks in a 3 way deal where they move Monroe.
Iced Espresso
Starter
G is an intriguing fella, but I want a legit 100% franchise piece. He's a good prospect, but not a guarantee. I believe Cousins is a guarantee if we can get the right coaching and supporting cast.
Certainly don't want to move Cousins right now either, want to at least let this season to play itself out.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
They "win" the trade for them, if he's not designated as the best player and/or the leader. In other words, get him on a team that has another elite talent, who is already established as the team's leader
Iced Espresso
Starter
This is like the reverse of the Mitch trade. Someone else gets the 25 year old guy who takes them to the next level for several years.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Only as a 2nd or 3rd option same thing as Kevin Love
Iced Espresso
Starter
Yeah and we've had no inclination Cousins wants out 100%, He's not on his last year of his deal either.
If anything sell in the off season after giving him a chance for this season at least. Which is still probably a mistake to do if you ask me.
We've had ZERO indication that Cousins wants out, other than some rumors that were most likely attributable to his agent and not DMC himself.
K
KingMilz
Guest
That makes the most sense, if we are out of the playoff picture soon we first need to move Rudy and Rondo
