Why is Reke worse now than when he was a rookie?

[LWP777]

Seriously? His FG% is down. His FT% is down. His assist to turnover ratio is worse. And I'm not just talking about the 3 games this year. I'm talking about last year too. Yes, I know, he was hurt a lot of last year but he's not hurt this year and he looks God awful. I don't care what anybody says but his jumper is NOT better.

What has he done to improve his game? I don't think that he has that killer instinct in him. He doesn't have that drive to be great. He'll probably be a decent player in the NBA, but he'll never be a star. This hurts the Kings tremendously because I think they really felt like they had a star in the making after his ROY award in his 20-5-5 season.

 

[TehSwimGuy]

Well, his jumper does look better to me, in the fact that he's not fading away anymore. It's a straight up shot. It looked real good against the Lakers.

Personally, I think he doesn't have "Drive" because he doesn't have any defined role. I don't think any of them do. It's just them bumbling around on court doing carte blanc. So if he hasn't meshed with the offense in about 10 games, and looks the same, you'll just see him continue to regress until we get a real coach or he goes to a different squad.

Kind of our curse, really. Like how Gerald Wallace got great after he left sac.

 

[Glenn]

Now he doesn't know what he is supposed to do. In his rookie year it was far more clear. Tonight. he made two successful back door cuts whicjh may be the first of his years here but I understand no one wants to consider that he is trying to fit in differently than his rookie year. It amazes me - oh, not really - that people have been screaming for Tyreke to change his game and then when he tries, essentially becoming a rookie once again, he just gets a ration of ****.

I am not sure how he will fit on this team and I can't defend him 100% but I think he and the rest of the team need a little patience. I am far more concerned about the eventual future of this team with a cheap ownership.

If someone is offended at a slight note of positivity about Tyreke, so be it. I'm not going to argue against a lynch mob.

 

[jcwkings]

The problem is that when he was a rookies, there was no cousins, no Thornton, no salmon's to demand shots. Our best play then was basically a 1-4 Iso, where tyrekes biggest strenght is highlighted. Westphal treated tyreke as our version of d rose. This year hes getting much less of that. The problem is there's no defined 1st option for offense on this team. Is our first option running through cousins in the low post? That's an option, the problem is that nor tyreke nor Thornton are very good at playing off the ball, they pass the ball into cousins and think the play is over for them, then they wait for their Iso plays, and when its their Iso play, they make sure to flip on that tunnel vision,or is their tunnel vision flipped on for the whole game?

 

[cuad]

I'm with Tyreke here. Other than his gambling and inattentive transition D, he's out there icing pick and rolls like it might actually be Westphal's game plan.

 

[IfAt1st]

Tyreke is amazingly overrated here.

He gambles on defense, turns the ball over a ton, squanders countless breakaway attempts, and his "inattentive D" costs the Kings way more points than his steals-to-layups create.

I saw him in-person tonight, and he looked scared.
Granted, he was up against Derrick Rose, but the problem with him is psychological - he just doesn't have that killer instinct and need to compete and win that star players have.
Him failing on the court just doesn't chew him up inside. This has been made clear from the past 2+ years.

I wonder if he got used to his rookie year, where our record seriously did not matter - it was all about him and generating excitement and "20-5-5"?

He has proven that (so far) he is not interested in developing even one new element to his game.
He still has stretches of the game where he slows to a crawl and stops moving on offense and/or defense.
He still walks the ball up and pounds the dribble, eating up valuable clock before passing it to some covered guy who has to force a move/shot.

These are not unknown flaws - he has been told to stop doing them for years, but he continues to do them.

I have a feeling he is going to find out real damn quick that this year he is not The Teflon King - everyone is sick of his ****, and it DOES stink, and he'd better improve because he is going to be held accountable for not doing what the coaches require of him this year.

Personally, I've had enough of him - he's had more than enough chance to improve, and has proven it's not in his character - give the keys of the team to Demarcus and Jimmer and let the rest help out as they can.

 

[SacTownKid]

Now he doesn't know what he is supposed to do. In his rookie year it was far more clear. Tonight. he made two successful back door cuts whicjh may be the first of his years here but I understand no one wants to consider that he is trying to fit in differently than his rookie year. It amazes me - oh, not really - that people have been screaming for Tyreke to change his game and then when he tries, essentially becoming a rookie once again, he just gets a ration of ****.

I am not sure how he will fit on this team and I can't defend him 100% but I think he and the rest of the team need a little patience. I am far more concerned about the eventual future of this team with a cheap ownership.

If someone is offended at a slight note of positivity about Tyreke, so be it. I'm not going to argue against a lynch mob.

These are good points. This is all new for Tyreke and it's going to take time. Also, it has to be remembered that when the Kings started clicking last year Reke was in and out of the lineup and eventually shut down so he's had even less experience than some.

If he's not doing what they are asking of him however they need to keep pounding it in with what he's supposed to do.

 

[ParniValjak]

Now he doesn't know what he is supposed to do. In his rookie year it was far more clear. Tonight. he made two successful back door cuts whicjh may be the first of his years here but I understand no one wants to consider that he is trying to fit in differently than his rookie year. It amazes me - oh, not really - that people have been screaming for Tyreke to change his game and then when he tries, essentially becoming a rookie once again, he just gets a ration of ****.

I am not sure how he will fit on this team and I can't defend him 100% but I think he and the rest of the team need a little patience. I am far more concerned about the eventual future of this team with a cheap ownership.

If someone is offended at a slight note of positivity about Tyreke, so be it. I'm not going to argue against a lynch mob.

Pretty much spot on! Other than the Portland game, Tyreke has been alright so far this year. Not great but he has been OK! I like how people are bagging him for turnovers, but take that one terrible game against Portland out, he has only had 1 turnover in 2 games. He still averages less turnovers than Jimmer and Thornton and is the only one out of 3 with a positive assist to turnover ratio.

People get at him for too much one on one, but are blind to Thornton's ball pounding lately. There were a few instances in the Bulls game where Thornton's heroism back fired. At about 8:55 in the 3rd quarter we are within one point with possession of the ball (CHI 71- SAC 70)....we are on a bit of a mini run with momentum, Thornton tries to play off the screen, then goes out of control shake and bake, step back contested jumper with plenty of time on the clock. Of course he misses, the ball gets pushed up the court and Watson hits a 3. Next trip down Tyreke drives to the basket, gets blocked but its a jump ball with Boozer. Thornton's man sneak forward and scores an easy lay up off the jump ball. Another trip down Chicago scores and what could have been a 72 or 73 lead to us went out to be a 7-0 run to the Bulls. Its that momentum breaking one on one hail mary crap that Thornton tried to pull off that broke the momentum and the rest is history.

People want Tyreke to change his game but they still want him to dominate. Well he is changing his game and it is a learning experience for him and despite all of that he has been OK. His turnovers are down (albeit a small sample size).

The only real problem with Tyreke this season have been free throws. Those are Chuck Hayes numbers. Tyreke is a career 75% FT shooter and he shooting them at a 50% clip so far this season. He obviously has the yipps but its not something that is regularly part of his game.

And NO Evans is not worse, he is the same player playing a different role this season. Not sure that role is a great thing overall but them is the breaks. Should we also be saying that Cousins is a terrible passer because he has not registered a single assist so far this year?!

The offence is ridiculous this season. When you best post player who also happens to be you best passer is not getting enough of the ball to a) take enough good shots and not feel like he has to shoot it every time he touches the ball because who knows when he will get the ball next, AND b) generate offence for others, then there is something wrong with the system and not so much the players executing it!

 

[UK_King]

I really haven't had a problem with his game so far; thought he played very well against the lakers, everyone was poor vs Portland and last night he was just fine, as were the whole team.

My main problem is players refusing to give that extra pass, Salmons and Thornton are the worst offenders, I think it's gonna take longer for these individuals to buy into the team game.

I feel for Tyreke; his ability to drive and finish has been cut off mainly, people have figured him out, it's clearly not his natural game to be a distributor, he's trying to do that though. When he drives the lane people say he doesn't pass it, when he passes to much people want him to drive more.

 

[TehSwimGuy]

Tyreke is amazingly overrated here.

He gambles on defense, turns the ball over a ton, squanders countless breakaway attempts, and his "inattentive D" costs the Kings way more points than his steals-to-layups create.

I saw him in-person tonight, and he looked scared.
Granted, he was up against Derrick Rose, but the problem with him is psychological - he just doesn't have that killer instinct and need to compete and win that star players have.
Him failing on the court just doesn't chew him up inside. This has been made clear from the past 2+ years.

I wonder if he got used to his rookie year, where our record seriously did not matter - it was all about him and generating excitement and "20-5-5"?

He has proven that (so far) he is not interested in developing even one new element to his game.
He still has stretches of the game where he slows to a crawl and stops moving on offense and/or defense.
He still walks the ball up and pounds the dribble, eating up valuable clock before passing it to some covered guy who has to force a move/shot.

These are not unknown flaws - he has been told to stop doing them for years, but he continues to do them.

I have a feeling he is going to find out real damn quick that this year he is not The Teflon King - everyone is sick of his ****, and it DOES stink, and he'd better improve because he is going to be held accountable for not doing what the coaches require of him this year.

Personally, I've had enough of him - he's had more than enough chance to improve, and has proven it's not in his character - give the keys of the team to Demarcus and Jimmer and let the rest help out as they can.

THIS. I was listening to the Grant Napear show (though I know, Peaches never knows when to shut the hell up or when things actually look bad) on the 28th, and one commenter mentioned how Tyreke just vanished and wasn't playing with any heart.

Of course, Peaches defended him till his dying breath about his heart, and that yes, he had a terrible game, but that didn't mean he had heart.

But unless he gets that fire, that drive, and is held accountable, he isn't going anywhere.

We made him think he was all that and a bag of chips his first year, even though he really wasn't, and hyped up rookie of the year so much that he probably thought he was MVP.

Newsflash, Reke. ROY is still underneath all other NBA players. You're a rookie. When you're named MVP, then maybe you can sit on some laurels of improvement for half a season or so. But you never lose that drive to win.

If you don't work on improving your game, you're not going anywhere.

 

[upinsmoke]

Well its clear this offense is not working. Coach has to take Reke OFF THE BALL! He spends to much time lollygagging the ball up the court giving the opposing D plenty of time to set up.

 

[Bricklayer]

Now he doesn't know what he is supposed to do.

This is by far the biggest thing. The confusion is obvious out there. Last year he was hurt. That was simple enoguh. But so far this year he swings between feeling his way along tentatively, and breaking plays to go with his instincts. A ton of that is on the coaching staff, and they really really have to get that cleared up in a hurry or they may not BE the coaching staff much longer.

The irony here is people are criticizing him now precisely because he's trying to do the right thing, or at least the thing being coached. I don't actually know what that thing is exactly btw. Or maybe I do, but have a hard time believing you'd actually be dumb enough to coach it. But anyway, it is Reke's very willingness to step back that has people upset now, the same people of course who are upset when he doesn't step back. Try telling Russell Westbrook to step back and see what happens. He might gun up 25 shots the next game just to spite you.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I think the problem is. Our F/O annointed Reke our Luke Skywalker in his friggan rookie year... When IMO he is not.

Reke is a dribbler, an isolation player, a scorer. Thats in his nature. Thats what the F/O groomed him to be for the last three years.

And now that we have scorers alongside him, that are good aswell if not better then him, they are trying to change Rekes game up to fit those scorers.

Trying to make him go against his instincts and nature, and what they made him become.

Im sure this is just as confusing for Reke as it is for us to watch. I honestly dont think hes a PG or a great or even a good offense initiator, "right now". (Yah i know beaten to death), I was actually one of the main supporters of Reke as a PG in his rookie year, because I thought he would improve as a playmaker, improve his shot, learn pick and rolls. But I guess I was wrong.

They cant force him against his instincts, against what he has done his whole life in basketball, what got him to the NBA, against what he is. And thats exactly what they are trying to do. The profiles out on Reke as a lead guard. And teams know how to stop him now.

Bad shooter that has excellent handles, that will isolate and charge to the net and force help defense on him, then he will kick to the open man or go for a right handed layup. No pick and rolls will be ran. Dont worry about his threes so you can sag off. If you defend him well enough he will be forced into a fade away jumper. force him to shoot.

Thats who Reke is. thats the basis of our offense right now. I'll admit hes pretty good at driving and drawing doubles then kicking. But is that really winning basketball when thats the only thing your lead guard can do? Were not tricking anybody here.

Does anybody notice how the offense runs smoother with Jimmer at the Helm. Thats because other teams dont know what Jimmers going to do, Because he uses pick and rolls, he moves off the ball, He can pull up for threes, he makes smart passes. More importantly, he dosent have to be in the paint to be effective.

Now im not saying we should use Jimmer at PG right now. Because I dont think hes ready for that. But you can see the difference of someone like Reke and Jimmer running the offense. One is predictable, the other one not so much.

I think right now we are mis-using Reke. He hasnt learned enough to be a winning lead guard yet. I believe he has to diversify his game, if he truly wants that day to come. But right now hes just to predictable, which makes our whole offense predictable.

I dont know what to do with the Reke situation because the F/O kind of dug themselves a whole with him. I do think he can be effective if he's used wisely on offense. But I'm ot sure how a coach can do that with him because hes so one dimentional right now.

 

[Glenn]

Well its clear this offense is not working. Coach has to take Reke OFF THE BALL! He spends to much time lollygagging the ball up the court giving the opposing D plenty of time to set up.

Now this is getting absurd. Sorry to put it that way. Reke is not "on the ball" as you put it. Only occasionally he has pounded the ball to set up a drive and for all I know, that was the play. After all, he is very good at setting up his defender and driving pat him. That used to be 90% of his game. He is not doing what he did his rookie year. Watch more carefully.

 

[IfAt1st]

After all, he is very good at setting up his defender and driving pat him. That used to be 90% of his game. He is not doing what he did his rookie year. Watch more carefully.

Actually, he is NOT good at setting up his defender and driving past him.
In fact, I counted during the Bulls game and noticed it during the Laker and Blazer games - he has a TERRIBLE % of getting past his man, and the % of time he drives and leads to TO or missed shots is MUCH more than when he gets a basket or assist.

He quite clearly is NOT bulling past his set defender in the halfcourt this year. Watch more carefully.

P.S. He still lollygags the ball up the court, despite the coaches repeatedly calling him out for it, and saying it has to change the past 2 years.

 

[TehSwimGuy]

Actually, he is NOT good at setting up his defender and driving past him.
In fact, I counted during the Bulls game and noticed it during the Laker and Blazer games - he has a TERRIBLE % of getting past his man, and the % of time he drives and leads to TO or missed shots is MUCH more than when he gets a basket or assist.

He quite clearly is NOT bulling past his set defender in the halfcourt this year. Watch more carefully.

P.S. He still lollygags the ball up the court, despite the coaches repeatedly calling him out for it, and saying it has to change the past 2 years.

Yup. Taking ten seconds to lollygag with the ball before initiating a play is WAY too long.

 

[EIM86]

It's a few games into the season and they had two preseason games. Reke is the type of athlete that plays himself into shape. In other words, he's a second half player. Be patient and if still sucks towards the end of the season we will all gladly complain with you.

 

[Bricklayer]

Reke is not setting his men up and blowing by them because he's been told that's not the way we are playing this season, that simple. He's taking nearly 5 fewere shtos a game this season, all of 11.7 a game which is down just above roleplayer level. And the shots that are missing are precisely the ones where he isos his man, rocks him with a juke, and then blows by him. Now he's been told if its not their intially, move the ball. And he's largely doing it. Effective? Not always. Selfish? Exactly the opposite much of the time. Whatever the instincts (which are not and never will be pass first) he's giving up part of his game and his numbers for the sake of the team because that's what the coach has asked him to do.

 

[TehSwimGuy]

Did anyone see the topic on RealGM?

On twitter too, Tyreke was so tweaked about his FT shooting, he went and practiced 400 free throws until 2 AM after the game.

I'll admit, that gives me some hope he wants to learn and improve.

 

[kingsboi]

I would have to say yes. But teams understanding his game plays a huge part in it too. I am confident enough in saying that when this season ends we can look back and still realize that Tyreke is the same player that he was when we started this season. Sure, he will have his good games where he sows flashes but that's all it is...flashes. Where is the real improvement and consistency? Now, I'm not saying he should be consistent every single night because he is only in his third year coming off an injury plagued second year so I have to cut him some slack. But to me, he just has the same tendencies that won't go away...he is a ball stopper IMO. He dribbles way too much and he wastes more clock than I have any other player seen just to get into his move, it's really heart wrenching to watch.

 

[mac]

Did anyone see the topic on RealGM?

On twitter too, Tyreke was so tweaked about his FT shooting, he went and practiced 400 free throws until 2 AM after the game.

I'll admit, that gives me some hope he wants to learn and improve.

I just hope that he won't be too gassed in the next game

 

[pshn80]

I think the ROY experience was unfortunate for Evans and the team. Especially as a lost or even counterproductive year of growth. The team wasn't good and so it was easy for the ownership and FO to make his getting the ROY as a season goal. It worked and he got the award and lost a year of opportunity in learning the elements of team play, of the various elements in what makes up a successful team player at point giard. And during his second year he was hurt enough to hamper his learning there. It's showing itself now when he's healthy and ready to play. I think its going to take a while yet for him to grasp and learn to perform the point guard job.

 

[gunks]

Rekes growth is stymied by the "coaching" here.

Rookie year he got to do whatever the **** he wanted too. Put up great numbers, also got a bit set in some of his bad habits which should have been nipped in the bud, then last season he was hurt, this year it seems like Westphool is doing a 180 on how he wants to utilize Reke, no wonder the dude has seemed tentative.

We havent developed a prospect well here in Sac since Kevin Martin.

 

[rainmaker]

Did anyone see the topic on RealGM?

On twitter too, Tyreke was so tweaked about his FT shooting, he went and practiced 400 free throws until 2 AM after the game.

I'll admit, that gives me some hope he wants to learn and improve.

Really, it gives you hope he wants to improve?

This is ludicrous. Some of you people are so anti Reke you don't even think he wants to improve. You don't think a former ROY wants to improve. You don't think a starting NBA guard, who put up 20/5/5 as a freaking 20 year old, has any drive. You act like Reke is where he is today because of blind luck, and he didn't work his *** off to get where he is.

Basically, you just admitted, because of a tweet about Reke practicing ft's, your opinion of him wanting to learn and improve changed. So if you never saw that tweet, you'd still be sitting behind your computer thinking Reke simply doesn't care.

Reke didn't all the sudden lose his talent. Posts like this show how shallow some posters knowledge is of the game. Don't even have the ability to consider teammates, coaching, system, or what he's being asked to do.

Because he only played decent during our first 3 games, and shot poorly from the line, you think the dude just doesn't give a s***. Funny.

Do you know what Nash was doing as a 22 yr old? How about Stockton? How about DWill? Guess those guys didn't want to learn or improve either at age 22, since Reke is better now then any of them were at the same age. Guess the rest of their careers were blind luck. If only twitter was around back then. Might have changed everything. Guess they don't work on their game unless they tweet about it.

 

[rainmaker]

I think the ROY experience was unfortunate for Evans and the team. Especially as a lost or even counterproductive year of growth. The team wasn't good and so it was easy for the ownership and FO to make his getting the ROY as a season goal. It worked and he got the award and lost a year of opportunity in learning the elements of team play, of the various elements in what makes up a successful team player at point giard. And during his second year he was hurt enough to hamper his learning there. It's showing itself now when he's healthy and ready to play. I think its going to take a while yet for him to grasp and learn to perform the point guard job.

I see.

So if he differed to Noc, Casspi and Hawes, you would have been convinced he's more of a team player? Or throwing the ball into JT, who's now our 10th man, every other trip down the floor would have been a better strategy?

 

[kings4lyfe32]

Really, it gives you hope he wants to improve?

This is ludicrous. Some of you people are so anti Reke you don't even think he wants to improve. You don't think a former ROY wants to improve. You don't think a starting NBA guard, who put up 20/5/5 as a freaking 20 year old, has any drive. You act like Reke is where he is today because of blind luck, and he didn't work his *** off to get where he is.

Basically, you just admitted, because of a tweet about Reke practicing ft's, your opinion of him wanting to learn and improve changed. So if you never saw that tweet, you'd still be sitting behind your computer thinking Reke simply doesn't care.

Reke didn't all the sudden lose his talent. Posts like this show how shallow some posters knowledge is of the game. Don't even have the ability to consider teammates, coaching, system, or what he's being asked to do.

Because he only played decent during our first 3 games, and shot poorly from the line, you think the dude just doesn't give a s***. Funny.

Co signed. Couldn't have said it any better myself

 

[mac]

Really, it gives you hope he wants to improve?

This is ludicrous. Some of you people are so anti Reke you don't even think he wants to improve. You don't think a former ROY wants to improve. You don't think a starting NBA guard, who put up 20/5/5 as a freaking 20 year old, has any drive. You act like Reke is where he is today because of blind luck, and he didn't work his *** off to get where he is.

Basically, you just admitted, because of a tweet about Reke practicing ft's, your opinion of him wanting to learn and improve changed. So if you never saw that tweet, you'd still be sitting behind your computer thinking Reke simply doesn't care.

Reke didn't all the sudden lose his talent. Posts like this show how shallow some posters knowledge is of the game. Don't even have the ability to consider teammates, coaching, system, or what he's being asked to do.

Because he only played decent during our first 3 games, and shot poorly from the line, you think the dude just doesn't give a s***. Funny.

Do you know what Nash was doing as a 22 yr old? How about Stockton? How about DWill? Guess those guys didn't want to learn or improve either at age 22, since Reke is better now then any of them were at the same age. Guess the rest of their careers were blind luck. If only twitter was around back then. Might have changed everything. Guess they don't work on their game unless they tweet about it.

Thank you. You know, I really have confidence in our young core, in terms of their talent and their willingness to do what it takes to win. We just need better veteran leadership and a system that works. Give the guys time and we'll see the improvement.

 

[TehSwimGuy]

4:00 On...That makes me so nostalgic.

"And their selfless style of play would become their trademark..."

 

[TehSwimGuy]

If they can get that style back...or tailor it to their talents...that comraderie, the togetherness...I'll be real happy .

 

[Tyndel]

4:00 On...That makes me so nostalgic.

"And their selfless style of play would become their trademark..."

That selfless style of play is what made me an NBA and a Kings fan.