Who to draft if we didn't have the chance at Griffin or Rubio?

[Padrino]

The Kings roster is full of a bunch of solid tweeners Noci(SF, PF), Thompson(PF, C, SF), Hawes (PF, C), Greene(SF, PF), Garcia(SF, SG, PG) and then you have those solid SG options in Martin and McCants. What we really need is a PG and a big man to cover both end to end positions.

Thabeet is one option and will surely boost up our frontline and defensive plays. However, the PG spot will still remain as the biggest hole in this team.

Therefore, if we miss Rubio or Griffin I just wish some would draft Thabeet ahead of us so we can really pickup Brandon Jennings without a lot of those fingers pointing and saying that Jennings was a reach.

Jennings, IMO, is the most athletically gifted PG in this draft, that will most likely will showcase to have the most draftee from PG position inside the top 20 within the last 10 yrs. or so. The only thing that Rubio has over Jennings is the height/length and that poster boy face. The rest is either a match or Jennings will have an edge. Rubio got a lot of credit for being able to match with CP3, Kidd and Derron in the Olympics. But IMO Jennings would also easily blitz CP3, Derron, or Kid. At 6 ft. dunks the ball so effortlessly. He runs the floor so fast with a solid gear switches and those nifty passes.

And with this very young team that can totally run. Jennings will be a superb addition. The very reason that his stock stayed at the top 10 even when he is overseas and mostly playing less than 10 minutes per game is the main reason that I want this kid on this team if we miss Rubio.

while i agree that the kings could use a solid, defensive, natural center, i'm not sure it's fair to categorize all of the above kings as "tweeners..."

tweeners are literally in between positions, in terms of size. they have no natural position. quincy douby is an example that comes to mind. he is neither a natural PG nor a natural SG. jason thompson is 6'11 and 250 lbs, and is built like a natural PF. spencer hawes is 7'0" and 245 lbs, and is built like a natural C. both are young and both will likely add some muscle as they grow into their positions. they can swing up and down positions a little, but they're not really tweeners. also, at 6'7" and 225 lbs, andres nocioni is very much built like a natural SF. i'll definitely grant that donte greene and francisco garcia are tweeners because of their versatility, and that is valuable to have coming off your bench. but the others are often playing out of position in kenny natt's "system."

 

[Capt. Factorial]

while i agree that the kings could use a solid, defensive, natural center, i'm not sure it's fair to categorize all of the above kings as "tweeners..."

...

i'll definitely grant that donte greene and francisco garcia are tweeners because of their versatility, and that is valuable to have coming off your bench. but the others are often playing out of position in kenny natt's "system."

I usually consider the moniker "tweener" a pejorative -- it's not a word you use to describe a versatile player, but a guy whose skills don't match up with his size (invariably the size being "too small"). I really only see two true categories of what I would call "tweeners" - guys with SF size and PF game (e.g. KT, Corliss), and guys with PG size and SG game (e.g. Douby).

I wouldn't call Greene a tweener, rather he's a SF and he's big enough he can try guarding PFs if need be. Garcia, meanwhile is a SG/SF with handles. Neither is too small for their position, so neither would get the "tweener" label from me.

 

[hrdboild]

So, until you can provide us with exact defensive stategy that the OK team used. And, can show us that Griffin refused to play defense, I'm going to have to consider your comments worthless. More than worthless in fact. For you have defamed a person, for something that you have no personal knowledge. And, furthermore, you've provided no analysis to prove that what you said is in any way accurate.

Do you really need to know a team's defensive strategy to see that a player is a poor defender? I saw 5 of Griffin's games this season, 1 early in the season, 3 in the middle of the season, and 2 at the end. That accounts for all of the times he was on national TV that I was able to see. In none of those games did Griffin make much of an impact on defense other than rebounding. The game against USC I saw was a long time ago, but USC shot 50% in that game and a lot of that came on dunks and layups. Last place Colorado shot 50% against them too as their guards kept driving all the way to the basket for layups. Deon Thompson scored right over him again and again in the UNC game a week ago. None of these teams have anyone bigger or stronger than Griffin, and yet he couldn't stop them from scoring in the paint. Do you think Oklahoma's defensive strategy is to allow other players to score over the top of them?

Looking at the college stats on ESPN to fill in some of what I didn't see, Griffin isn't even in the top 100 for blocks or steals. Actually he's not even close. There are more than 100 players in college basketball this season who are better shot-blockers and ball-thiefs than Griffin. How many of those do you think will ever play in the NBA? 10 maybe? 20 at the most? The stats aren't everything defensively, of course, but combined with what I saw when I was able to watch the games it doesn't look like he mattered much defensively at all this year. It's an exageration to say he refused to play defense, I admit, but what else are you going to call it when someone stands to the side and watches players drive in for layups? Or if he barely contests a post-up shot over the top of him? If he's that much better than everyone else in college basketball (consensus #1 pick, player of the year, etc), how come he can't make an impact defensively?

I don't think I'm coming out of left field here. Almost everyone who's commented on his play this season has mentioned how little he impacts the game defensively. At times he's been an actual liability on that end of the floor. You could say he has the strength and athleticism to be a good defender if he's coached well. That's the hope, but how many times have we seen players come out of college who don't try very hard on defense and continue the same habits in the NBA? I think he could at the least be an average defense player right away if he just put out as much effort on defense as he does going for rebounds or attacking the basket. But I have yet to see it happen.

If you think my comments are worthless, fine. I'm not the one making the pick anyway so it's not like my opinion matters in any significant way to the team. We're all just guessing at who the best prospects are. I'll still be a Kings fan if they draft Blake Griffin. Chances are we all look back at this in 5 years and wonder how we ever could have missed how good some player who got drafted 8th or 15th or 25th was going to be.

PS - Here's another take on Griffin's performance in the UNC game.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

We need a point guard. i have been saying that all year.

Rubio, Jennings, Lawson, Collison, Mills......anyone not named Beno....

 

[Kingster]

The Kings roster is full of a bunch of solid tweeners Noci(SF, PF), Thompson(PF, C, SF), Hawes (PF, C), Greene(SF, PF), Garcia(SF, SG, PG) and then you have those solid SG options in Martin and McCants. What we really need is a PG and a big man to cover both end to end positions.

Thabeet is one option and will surely boost up our frontline and defensive plays. However, the PG spot will still remain as the biggest hole in this team.

Therefore, if we miss Rubio or Griffin I just wish some would draft Thabeet ahead of us so we can really pickup Brandon Jennings without a lot of those fingers pointing and saying that Jennings was a reach.

Jennings, IMO, is the most athletically gifted PG in this draft, that will most likely will showcase to have the most draftee from PG position inside the top 20 within the last 10 yrs. or so. The only thing that Rubio has over Jennings is the height/length and that poster boy face. The rest is either a match or Jennings will have an edge. Rubio got a lot of credit for being able to match with CP3, Kidd and Derron in the Olympics. But IMO Jennings would also easily blitz CP3, Derron, or Kid. At 6 ft. dunks the ball so effortlessly. He runs the floor so fast with a solid gear switches and those nifty passes.

And with this very young team that can totally run. Jennings will be a superb addition. The very reason that his stock stayed at the top 10 even when he is overseas and mostly playing less than 10 minutes per game is the main reason that I want this kid on this team if we miss Rubio.

I haven't seen Jennings play, but I doubt very much that he is more athletically gifted than Evans.

 

[hrdboild]

I haven't seen Jennings play, but I doubt very much that he is more athletically gifted than Evans.

You know, you're like the fifth person to say something like this. The answer is quite simple, you haven't seen him play. If I told you 6 years ago there was a kid named Lebron James in High School who passes the ball like Magic and dunks like Jordan you probably wouldn't believe me either, but it happened.

 

[Dime Dropper]

The only thing that Rubio has over Jennings is the height/length and that poster boy face. The rest is either a match or Jennings will have an edge. Rubio got a lot of credit for being able to match with CP3, Kidd and Derron in the Olympics. But IMO Jennings would also easily blitz CP3, Derron, or Kid. At 6 ft. dunks the ball so effortlessly. He runs the floor so fast with a solid gear switches and those nifty passes.

Hang on, this is absolute rubbish. Rubio is superior to Jennings in every single way bar athleticism. Yes, that is significant, but Jennings is really struggling in Europe to do anything. He is a great athlete, excellent quickness and leaping ability, but hasn't shown anything to suggest he's going to be a great PG. I'm just baffled that you managed to arrive at the conclusion that Jennings is either a better ball handler, passer, or defender than Rubio. At this stage, that's way off. My gut feeling is that you've either seen very little of both, or are just hoping that Jennings will be better due to his athleticism.

Just to take it category by category, let's have a realistic look:

Speed/quickness: Jennings > Rubio
Shooting: Rubio > Jennings
Ball handling: Rubio = Jennings (I think Rubio egdes it, but both are good)
Shooting: Rubio > Jennings
Decision Making: Rubio > Jennings
Passing/Vision: Rubio > Jennings
Leadership: Rubio > Jennings
Defense: Rubio > Jennings
Intangibles: Rubio > Jennings

Perhaps Jennings athleticism will make him a potent NBA player, but right now, there should be no doubt as to whose better. I have no problem with Jennings, he's a nice prospect with great athleticism, but I'm a little worried about his lack of IQ and lack of production so far.

 

[Vlade4GM]

You know, you're like the fifth person to say something like this. The answer is quite simple, you haven't seen him play. If I told you 6 years ago there was a kid named Lebron James in High School who passes the ball like Magic and dunks like Jordan you probably wouldn't believe me either, but it happened.

Whoa whoa whoa, that is simply not true.

 

[Smills91]

Tyreke Evans would be an interesting choice at #3 or #4.

 

[One and Done]

As of now, I'd take a look at James Harden, Tyreke Evans, and Brandon Jennings, respectively.

Taking into account Petrie likes skilled players, I can't see us drafting the likes of Jordan Hill & Hasheem Thabeet. Not saying I wouldn't be upset if we did, but that's just the way I see Petrie drafting.

Harden is an incredibly gifted 2-Guard, the problem is his size, athleticism, and potentially, defense. The fact that he stunk it up in the tournament does not help...some teams take this as a sampling of how a player performs under pressure and in the spotlight. For Harden, it really depends on his workouts...teams in his range really need to determine if his scoring & do-it-all ability will transfer to the NBA.

Tyreke Evans is another versatile scorer who is a bit undersized but more athletic than Harden. The downside is his selfish mentality and perimeter game. Do we really need another selfish player?

Brandon Jennings has admittedly stunk it up in Europe, but has shown flashes. I'm still thinking he's the next Telfair, but who am I to judge. Do we need a PG? Hell yes. Is Jennings talented? No doubt. However, I'd rather us take someone else at 3 or 4 and trade up (our late 1st rounder) for Ty Lawson.

Here's to hoping we can land either Griffin or Rubio. Better yet, here's to landing both! If not, we'll get a useful player and a guaranteed shot at the top 5 next year.

 

[ElRey]

As of now, I'd take a look at James Harden, Tyreke Evans, and Brandon Jennings, respectively.

Taking into account Petrie likes skilled players, I can't see us drafting the likes of Jordan Hill & Hasheem Thabeet. Not saying I wouldn't be upset if we did, but that's just the way I see Petrie drafting.

Harden is an incredibly gifted 2-Guard, the problem is his size, athleticism, and potentially, defense. The fact that he stunk it up in the tournament does not help...some teams take this as a sampling of how a player performs under pressure and in the spotlight. For Harden, it really depends on his workouts...teams in his range really need to determine if his scoring & do-it-all ability will transfer to the NBA.

Tyreke Evans is another versatile scorer who is a bit undersized but more athletic than Harden. The downside is his selfish mentality and perimeter game. Do we really need another selfish player?

Brandon Jennings has admittedly stunk it up in Europe, but has shown flashes. I'm still thinking he's the next Telfair, but who am I to judge. Do we need a PG? Hell yes. Is Jennings talented? No doubt. However, I'd rather us take someone else at 3 or 4 and trade up (our late 1st rounder) for Ty Lawson.

Here's to hoping we can land either Griffin or Rubio. Better yet, here's to landing both! If not, we'll get a useful player and a guaranteed shot at the top 5 next year.

Tyreke Evans is an intriguing prospect. There are some draft websites that list Evans as a PG... a 6'5" athletic point guard is intriguing. I believe he played PG in high school and then in the second half of this year as well. You can tell from his highlight videos on youtube that he's got handles, and can create off the dribble. I dont know about his courtvision and passing ability though.

And I agree with you that Petrie does not like one dimensional players...

 

[Kingster]

You know, you're like the fifth person to say something like this. The answer is quite simple, you haven't seen him play. If I told you 6 years ago there was a kid named Lebron James in High School who passes the ball like Magic and dunks like Jordan you probably wouldn't believe me either, but it happened.

If he's more athletic than Evans, I'd be glad to take him. But he's got to be significantly more athletic because Evan is so much taller and with his reach he's really long (I think he had a reach close to a 7 footer?).

 

[hrdboild]

If he's more athletic than Evans, I'd be glad to take him. But he's got to be significantly more athletic because Evan is so much taller and with his reach he's really long (I think he had a reach close to a 7 footer?).

Except that Evans is not a PG. He's a great one-on-one player with some passing ability, but he's going to be a SG in the NBA which causes problems for us in terms of our roster. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective, which we saw at Memphis, but he really only excels at creating his own shot, not creating for others. I haven't really seen him enough to form a strong opinion on him though. I think he's a good player, for sure. I don't know if he's a good fit for our team though.