Vlade4GM
All-Star
I doubt Rubio enters if he doesn't get at least a top 3 promise.
Who to draft if we didn't have the chance at Griffin or Rubio?
- Thread starter KF8
- Start date
I doubt Rubio enters if he doesn't get at least a top 3 promise.
Aenadin
Starter
if we draft THabeet we can move hawes over to the 4 and JT at the 3
then try to go after felton
felton/udrih
Martin/garcia
Thompson/Greene
Hawes/Nocioni
Thabeet/anybody
Hawes and thabeet can share minutes at the 5 when one sits and the other rests... noc can come in at 3 thompson slides over the 4 and hawes at the 5
the thompson hawes and thabeet line up is BIG thats the key here we get more rebounds and we dont worry about quicker players slashing in cause theyd have to face 2 7footers inside..
hawes can definitely play the 5 and 4 but against stronger 5s like dwight... we can match up thabeet...
jt definitely can play some 3 ....
then try to go after felton
felton/udrih
Martin/garcia
Thompson/Greene
Hawes/Nocioni
Thabeet/anybody
Hawes and thabeet can share minutes at the 5 when one sits and the other rests... noc can come in at 3 thompson slides over the 4 and hawes at the 5
the thompson hawes and thabeet line up is BIG thats the key here we get more rebounds and we dont worry about quicker players slashing in cause theyd have to face 2 7footers inside..
hawes can definitely play the 5 and 4 but against stronger 5s like dwight... we can match up thabeet...
jt definitely can play some 3 ....
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
JT can play some 3, but not consistently, and I'm afraid the defense would be hopeless. I like playing big rather than little, but unless we can convince Pat Riley to come out of retirement to coach that frontline the way he did his experiments with Charles Smith and Anthony Mason at SF, I don't think that's truly our best crew.
Not sure what people have against having a huge young frontline trio of Hawes C/PF, Thomspon PF/C and Thabeet C. There's 96 minutes to be had there, that's an average of 32 a piece. And if you keep Noc around and or Greene as guys who can play a little smallball 4, that's your frontcourt. You are done, at least until you see how they develop. And you can turn all your attention to the backcourt woes.
How about THIS frontline:
1) draft Thabeet 7'3" C
2) sign Hedo Turkoglu 6'10" SF
7'3" C Thabeet
7'0" C/PF Hawes
6'11" PF/C Thompson
6'10" SF/PF/SG Turkoglu
6'7" SF/PF Nocioni
6'10" SF/PF Greene
6'7" SF/SG Garcia
Now Green gets squished in that arrangement, but I have an answer to anything and everything you can throw at me with that lineup. I'm big, I've got shotblocking, rebounding, passing, 3pt shooting, even defense. We don't have to be that far away from being competitive if we play it smart and have a few things fall our way this summer.
Not sure what people have against having a huge young frontline trio of Hawes C/PF, Thomspon PF/C and Thabeet C. There's 96 minutes to be had there, that's an average of 32 a piece. And if you keep Noc around and or Greene as guys who can play a little smallball 4, that's your frontcourt. You are done, at least until you see how they develop. And you can turn all your attention to the backcourt woes.
How about THIS frontline:
1) draft Thabeet 7'3" C
2) sign Hedo Turkoglu 6'10" SF
7'3" C Thabeet
7'0" C/PF Hawes
6'11" PF/C Thompson
6'10" SF/PF/SG Turkoglu
6'7" SF/PF Nocioni
6'10" SF/PF Greene
6'7" SF/SG Garcia
Now Green gets squished in that arrangement, but I have an answer to anything and everything you can throw at me with that lineup. I'm big, I've got shotblocking, rebounding, passing, 3pt shooting, even defense. We don't have to be that far away from being competitive if we play it smart and have a few things fall our way this summer.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No idea.
Actually the theory was, before Orlando got so good, that we could plunk down all our FA money on him, and Orlando, who is cash strapped and wildly overpaying for Lewis, might have to let him go just for financial reasons. That, combined with our old connection to Hedo, might make us a viable destination.
With Orlando emerging as a title contender though, its getting harder to see him leaving unless the money truly does entirely dry up there. But one can still plot.
Jespher
Starter
Point guard would still be a black hole though. I know Francisco and Hedo can play some point forward, but if you think Beno Udrih is your answer there then the Kings will have some serious problems. If they manage to steal a starting point guard with Houston's pick, then everybody wins, including the Kings!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Bricklayer said:
I'm still not sold on Thabeet, but what the hell, I'm not sold on anyone so far. Aside from that, I like the idea. Personally I'm sick of small ball. I've never understood why a team decides to match up with another team just because they go small. Why give away your height advantage?
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I like Thabeet and think he would help this team right away. I wouldn't be upset if we picked him #2-5. But I think he is much more of a project than rubio. Thabeet will get some rebounds, and block some shots, but I think it will take a little while for him to get up to speed in the nba. And he has no offensive game at all that will carry over to the nba.
When Rubio does come over, this year or next, he will have an immediate impact. His jumper isn't great, but is good enough to keep the defense honest. But his vision and international experience playing in important games is something no one else in this draft brings to the table. Rubio was playing pro when Thabeet was learning how to dribble a basketball. That isn't a knock on Thabeet, but I think talent wise, Rubio is much more ready for the nba.
If we don't get Griffin, and Rubio is there, I would take him over any other player in this years draft without hesitation. I don't think you can pass on a talent like Rubio. That being said, we really need a player like Thabeet to help anchor our defense.
But right now, Rubio fills a bigger need for us. Not just on the court(we dont have a nba quality starting pg on this roster), but off it as well. With the economy in the toilet, rubio would sell more tickets, give us more national exposure, and get us back on national tv again. He would bring a lot of excitement with him. I'm sure that point is not lost on the Maloofs.
When Rubio does come over, this year or next, he will have an immediate impact. His jumper isn't great, but is good enough to keep the defense honest. But his vision and international experience playing in important games is something no one else in this draft brings to the table. Rubio was playing pro when Thabeet was learning how to dribble a basketball. That isn't a knock on Thabeet, but I think talent wise, Rubio is much more ready for the nba.
If we don't get Griffin, and Rubio is there, I would take him over any other player in this years draft without hesitation. I don't think you can pass on a talent like Rubio. That being said, we really need a player like Thabeet to help anchor our defense.
But right now, Rubio fills a bigger need for us. Not just on the court(we dont have a nba quality starting pg on this roster), but off it as well. With the economy in the toilet, rubio would sell more tickets, give us more national exposure, and get us back on national tv again. He would bring a lot of excitement with him. I'm sure that point is not lost on the Maloofs.
sidney
Starter
Hedo's already 30 and will likely be in decline halfway through whatever contract he gets this summer.
Kevin's 26 and IMO should be the about as old as we go to target core guys to bring in. It'll take a minimum of a couple of years to build back up the confidence and consistency to go deep in the playoffs. Then Hedo's 32, getting 7-10/year?
Kevin's 26 and IMO should be the about as old as we go to target core guys to bring in. It'll take a minimum of a couple of years to build back up the confidence and consistency to go deep in the playoffs. Then Hedo's 32, getting 7-10/year?
vikinginferno
Starter
Hawes/Thabeet both can easily get overpowered by guys like Shaq, Bynum, Dwight Howard, Dampier, Diop, and that can be a huge problem. We would need someone to go up against those type of guys.
Yeah the problem with that scenario is that Thabeet has to be ready to contribute right away. I think it might take him a couple years at least before he's ready to play a big role on a playoff team. Same for Hawes. Which means Hedo is breaking down right about the time you're ready to compete for real. We'd still have terrible perimiter defense unless we somehow acquire a terrific defensive PG and Martin morphs into Doug Christie in the off season. Any chance of Hedo being a cornerstone of this team has passed I think. The rest of the team just isn't there yet.
Speaking of Thabeet, I'm really discouraged by how little he seemed to care in that loss to Michigan State. He was great the first 10 minutes of the game, but after that he spent far too much time floating around doing nothing. He wasn't boxing out or even attempting to grab rebounds for large stretches and when he did touch the ball on offense he frequently missed easy point blank layups. It was especially frustrating because he showed he could dominate the game in the first 10 minutes and spent the next 30 minutes refusing to do so.
Speaking of Thabeet, I'm really discouraged by how little he seemed to care in that loss to Michigan State. He was great the first 10 minutes of the game, but after that he spent far too much time floating around doing nothing. He wasn't boxing out or even attempting to grab rebounds for large stretches and when he did touch the ball on offense he frequently missed easy point blank layups. It was especially frustrating because he showed he could dominate the game in the first 10 minutes and spent the next 30 minutes refusing to do so.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I saw that game to and I wasn't that impressed. I know its one game, but I couldn't help but think that Thabeet has been so successful in college because he is bigger than everyone. He didn't show much against one of the better front lines in college basketball. This has happened before, against the better front lines in college. His numbers go way down. I don't know how he will handle nba big men on a nightly basis. I think it will take him a little whle to get comfortable in the nba, but mentally I dont know if he will be able to dominate defensively at any point in his nba career. It is a risk. I wouldn't mind picking him #7-10(won't happen), but as a top 5 pick I think there are too many questions. He hasn't dominated the really important games for Uconn, and at times seems passive.
asakkings
Bench
I dont see how you can place so much blame on thabeet in that game. I like the fact that he showed some heart when he defended his teammate, thats the kind of heart that we need. Also MSU was gunning up and down everytime in the 2nd half, all their paint points came from fastbreak layups. That was the fault of UConn's guards not Thabeet. Does Uconn even have a legit PG, AJ Price did nothing and they seemed to have no passing at all.
HighTopKicks
Bench
How many current Centers doen't get overpowered by Shaq & Howard. What Thabeet can do with those guys if front them. Let the opposing guards try to feed the ball over Thabeet, if they can it'll be a basket well earned. And, let's see how many guys get alley-oops, when Thabeet is standing within 8ft of the rim.
Thabeet isn't going to start. Just like JT & Spencer, he'll come off the bench at first. So, his time on the floor with the opponents 1st string players will be limited. He's not small, and has the frame to bulk up, but even if he muscles up to 290lbs, it's going to be he's footwork & positioning that's going to make him a starting center.
As Reynolds always says, Centers & PG's take time. And, the Kings have time, because their not going to be a contender for 3 or 4 yrs. If we can't get Griffin or Rubio, because we lose the lottery or Rubio doen't enter, I'll be very excited to get Thabeet, at the #2.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Regardless of whose fault it is, defense is defense. When you watch the Kings, one of the first people back on defense is Thompson. He busts his butt running up and down the floor. You can fault his technic, but not his hustle.
In the Mich game, Thabeet was late getting back almost every time. If your the shot blocker on your team, it might help if your back on defense to block a few shots. As far as defending his teammate, thats all well and good. But I'm more interested in how he plays basketball, not how he boxes.
If you're playing in the Final Four and can't be bothered to box out or even make an attempt at rebounding the basketball for 20 minutes (especially when you've got a huge height advantage and your role on the team is to rebound the ball) than you flat out don't deserve to win. It did look like effort was the problem here, he can and has done a great job on the boards in other games this season. But what more motivation do you need? You're one game away from playing in the championship. He bailed on his team. It's not necessarily a deal breaker, it just makes me concerned...
Just like Blake Griffin refusing to play defense all season makes me concerned. Just like James Harden being unable to get off a decent shot in three straight games at the most important part of the season makes me concerned. A rebounder who won't rebound, a dominant inside presence who dominates nobody defensively, a scorer who can't score. Those are some pretty huge concerns I think. All three of those guys have shown enough upside throughout the rest of the season to justify the pick, but not without some huge reservations.
Just like Blake Griffin refusing to play defense all season makes me concerned. Just like James Harden being unable to get off a decent shot in three straight games at the most important part of the season makes me concerned. A rebounder who won't rebound, a dominant inside presence who dominates nobody defensively, a scorer who can't score. Those are some pretty huge concerns I think. All three of those guys have shown enough upside throughout the rest of the season to justify the pick, but not without some huge reservations.
HighTopKicks
Bench
I was a little confused about your comments until I read your sig line. Jennings? What has he done all year. At least the players you mentioned had good games during the year. How many good games has Jennings had since High School.
As far as Griffins defense goes, you have no idea what his coach asked him to do on defense. As their #1 scoring option, the last thing that OK needed was for him to get into foul trouble trying to block shots. And, how many offensive stars have come out of college after the Soph yr & could play defense anyways.
At this point I don't care if the Kings get Griffin, Rubio, or Thabeet. But, whoever they get he's not going to be 100% NBA ready. Nobody coming out of college ever is. So, continue to find fault with everyone who isn't Jennings if you must.
Why are you making excuses for people? I'm well aware Griffin may have needed to avoid contact at times to stay on the floor. Even considering that, his defense was lacking. The game is 40 minutes, you get 5 fouls. He averaged 2.5 fouls per game on the season, so clearly foul trouble wasn't that big of a problem. But I'm just making observations based on what I've seen when I watched these guys, I'm not saying we shouldn't draft them. I'm just weighing the positives and negatives the same as everyone else.
I stopped talking about Jennings because I was afraid I was sounding like a broken record, but since you brought it up, why not talk about Jennings. From watching him play, I think he has elite level ball-handling and court vision. He's blazing fast with the basketball and he can get up and dunk at only 6 feet so he's very athletic. He also set scoring records in high school so he does have the ability to score points even if his jump shot clearly needs work. In terms of potential, I think that package of tools puts him right up there with anyone else in this draft.
Has he dominated college level competition? Obviously not, but that doesn't mean he couldn't. It's just an unknown. Actually, I think part of the reason I still like Jennings is that he hasn't been exposed in the way these other guys have been. He's still an unknown commodity in many ways. Another reason is that this team desperately needs a PG and considering no one really stands out as a can't miss prospect in this draft, team need does play a factor. I'm mostly concerned that Jennings will be a non-factor on defense which is unacceptable for this team. We need all the defensive help we can get. So yes, I have some reservations there too.
So why the signature? In every high school competition he took part in he rose to the top. He dominated All-Star competitions filled with current and soon-to-be NBA players like the Elite 24 @ Rucker Park with 15assists in 2006 and 23assists in 2007. Look at the list of High School Player of the Year award winners. That's pretty good company. Could he flame out like, say, Dajuan Wagner? Sure it's possible. But I like the odds. More than anyone else in this draft, with the possible exception of Ricky Rubio, he's got the track record of a future All-Star.
HighTopKicks
Bench
I made no excuses for anyone. While you on the other hand made broad statements, with I'm guessing, no inside information.
So, until you can provide us with exact defensive stategy that the OK team used. And, can show us that Griffin refused to play defense, I'm going to have to consider your comments worthless. More than worthless in fact. For you have defamed a person, for something that you have no personal knowledge. And, furthermore, you've provided no analysis to prove that what you said is in any way accurate.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Thabeet is not what Kings need and does not appear ready to help in the NBA. Off the bench maybe. He is only a 5 and we have Hawes with JT backup for the 5.
If not Griffin, then trade down for a first line PG and/or get Ty Lawson. Kings need a leader type who hustles and plays some D. Noce will be the 3, JT 4 and Hawes the 5. A backup big is needed likely with the Houston choice now around 24-25. Noce plays the 4 when Kings play small or even the 5.
If McCants stays he is a scorer. If not need 1-2 more scorers who shoot the 3.
But need defenders first and foremost. Doug Christi in-your-face type.
If not Griffin, then trade down for a first line PG and/or get Ty Lawson. Kings need a leader type who hustles and plays some D. Noce will be the 3, JT 4 and Hawes the 5. A backup big is needed likely with the Houston choice now around 24-25. Noce plays the 4 when Kings play small or even the 5.
If McCants stays he is a scorer. If not need 1-2 more scorers who shoot the 3.
But need defenders first and foremost. Doug Christi in-your-face type.
KingsCitizen
Starter
The Kings roster is full of a bunch of solid tweeners Noci(SF, PF), Thompson(PF, C, SF), Hawes (PF, C), Greene(SF, PF), Garcia(SF, SG, PG) and then you have those solid SG options in Martin and McCants. What we really need is a PG and a big man to cover both end to end positions.
Thabeet is one option and will surely boost up our frontline and defensive plays. However, the PG spot will still remain as the biggest hole in this team.
Therefore, if we miss Rubio or Griffin I just wish some would draft Thabeet ahead of us so we can really pickup Brandon Jennings without a lot of those fingers pointing and saying that Jennings was a reach.
Jennings, IMO, is the most athletically gifted PG in this draft, that will most likely will showcase to have the most draftee from PG position inside the top 20 within the last 10 yrs. or so. The only thing that Rubio has over Jennings is the height/length and that poster boy face. The rest is either a match or Jennings will have an edge. Rubio got a lot of credit for being able to match with CP3, Kidd and Derron in the Olympics. But IMO Jennings would also easily blitz CP3, Derron, or Kid. At 6 ft. dunks the ball so effortlessly. He runs the floor so fast with a solid gear switches and those nifty passes.
And with this very young team that can totally run. Jennings will be a superb addition. The very reason that his stock stayed at the top 10 even when he is overseas and mostly playing less than 10 minutes per game is the main reason that I want this kid on this team if we miss Rubio.
Thabeet is one option and will surely boost up our frontline and defensive plays. However, the PG spot will still remain as the biggest hole in this team.
Therefore, if we miss Rubio or Griffin I just wish some would draft Thabeet ahead of us so we can really pickup Brandon Jennings without a lot of those fingers pointing and saying that Jennings was a reach.
Jennings, IMO, is the most athletically gifted PG in this draft, that will most likely will showcase to have the most draftee from PG position inside the top 20 within the last 10 yrs. or so. The only thing that Rubio has over Jennings is the height/length and that poster boy face. The rest is either a match or Jennings will have an edge. Rubio got a lot of credit for being able to match with CP3, Kidd and Derron in the Olympics. But IMO Jennings would also easily blitz CP3, Derron, or Kid. At 6 ft. dunks the ball so effortlessly. He runs the floor so fast with a solid gear switches and those nifty passes.
And with this very young team that can totally run. Jennings will be a superb addition. The very reason that his stock stayed at the top 10 even when he is overseas and mostly playing less than 10 minutes per game is the main reason that I want this kid on this team if we miss Rubio.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Are you serious?! We don't need an interior defender who excels at shotblocking?! Are you serious?!
