Who starts at PF and SG next season?

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
So hi everybody. I've been visiting this site for a few months now and it's becoming the first place I look for Kings news. I was thinking about something yesterday and it made me sign up and post for the first time. The question I was pondering was, who will fill in our spots at PF and SG next season (as it seems likely Cat is gone after this season -- especially after the Webber trade). The first names I came up with were Theo Ratliff and Larry Hughes and there's reasons why we could get both. Here's how I broke it down.

Theo Ratliff is not a free agent so we'd have to get him from a trade with Portland. I'm not clever enough to work out any multi team trades, but I found several trades that work. The real trick would be to somehow keep some of our newfound depth in the process and give Portland some reason to take the trade. This seemed the most likely:

Portland trades:
C Theo Ratliff
(4.8 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 28.5 minutes)
Portland receives:
SF Corliss Williamson
(10.9 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 22.1 minutes)
PF Brian Skinner
(2.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.2 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +8.1 ppg, +1.0 rpg, and +0.5 apg.

Sacramento trades:
SF Corliss Williamson
(10.9 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 22.1 minutes)
PF Brian Skinner
(2.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.2 minutes)
Sacramento receives:
C Theo Ratliff
(4.8 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 28.5 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -8.1 ppg, -1.0 rpg, and -0.5 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

This trade makes sense for us because Ratliff would presumably fill the roles of Skinner and Williamson by giving us a low post presence, some interior defense, and an offensive rebounding force with the added benefit of size. It would leave us without a legitimate big man backup again (cause it's painful seeing Ostertag out ther on the court) so maybe we could find a way to keep Skinner too. Ostertag does have an expiring contract, but I don't see any team turning a trade to pick up Ostertag unless he somehow turns into a shotblocking force again. Kenny Thomas has the bigger contract (between him and Corliss) but he brings more talent with it so that's also an option. He probably gets more rebounds per 48 than Ratliff does (also a reason why it would be tough to see him go).

With Ratliff in the starting lineup we have that interior defense we've been sorely lacking and on offense it works out like it did much of last season when we had Vlade and Miller out there. Miller moves into the high post where he's more dangerous and Ratliff fills in the low post, looking to dominate the offensive boards and make cuts to the basket. Size is more important in the Western Conference too and this would give us a huge frontline.

So why does Portland make the trade? They've signed Ratliff to a big contract and he's basically become a backup center on a team that's going nowhere. They've got to do something sooner or later and he's a good chip to move. We can't offer them a lot of cap room and they already have a logjam at the forward positions, but Abdur-Rahim is leaving after this season. Corliss, Skinner, and Ostertag have short contracts. As will Bobby Jackson if his team option is picked up, and Portland does have some need at PG with Damon Stoudamire leaving and Nick Van Exel not getting any younger. So the point is, we have enough pieces to make the deal attractive to Portland, but the trick is coming up with the deal that leaves us in the best possible position. It's tough, but doable. Unless Portland is dead set around rebuilding with Ratliff but it doesn't look like that the way they're playing him. And of course they're not winning so they'd be better off finding younger guys to rebuild around, or at least expiring contracts to swap him for.

So then there's the SG spot. There are a number of free agents this season at the PF and SG spots but most of the PF ones are undersized guys like we already have or big guys with limited skills. The options at SG are a lot more attractive though. Ray Allen and Michael Redd are probably too high profile to sign here, they'll be getting a ton of money thrown at them. But an even more attractive option for us who is slightly more obtainable is Larry Hughes. He's on a team with two All-Stars so he doesn't really have that MVP buzz about him even though he's having a monster season. He's a steal specialist with playmaker capabilites which brings back fond memories of Doug Christie's strengths at the SG spot.

And if you think about it, this is a pretty attractive situation for free agents. We've got spots open in our starting roster now which we haven't really had for awhile. The guys they'd be playing with at SF, PG, and C are all All-Star caliber. And it's a system that's been praised for it's ability to breed chemistry and make guys better. And it's a team with a proven ability to win that's ready to make a play for the finals. We haven't really had this kind of a hole to fill since the Maloofs have been with the team so maybe they'll surprise us and reel somebody in. We can't offer the most money, but we do have an attractive situation which may make up for it.

So here's my lineup for next season with Larry Hughes and Theo Ratliff filled in. Unfortunately this leaves us with a weak bench again, but Kenny Thomas and a healthy Bobby Jackson go a long way. Maybe Martin bulks up in the offseason and plays more minutes? Will Evans and Songaila return? Can we find a way to move Ostertag? Maybe it seems wrong to be talking about the offseason already, but we seem to be set up for an especially active offseason so there's a lot of questions to ponder. We're still a threat to most teams in the playoffs so who knows what will happen.

M. Bibby [B. Jackson?]
L. Hughes [K. Martin] [M. Evans?]
P. Stojakovic [K. Thomas] [M. Evans?]
T. Ratliff [D. Songaila?]
B. Miller [G. Ostertag]

Any thoughts?
 
Umm. . .

SAR doesn't fit in Portland because he operates in the paint which clogs things up for the man they are building around in Randolph. Why on Earth would they deal for Corliss?

Hughes is going to cost WAY more than the MLE, and Washington will pay it. He's been a stud when healthy this season.

Mobley likely WILL stay in Sacramento. With the new CBA looming, I'm guessing that he'll see he won't get anything more on the open market and won't excercise his player option. He can't get more than the MLE from 90% of the teams in the NBA and his contract will pay him more than that if he doesn't opt out.

As for the teams that WILL have caproom, the Hawks have wings to spare, the Bucks will use all their cash to keep Michael Redd, and the Bobcats are looking to build with young FA's and draft picks. I don't see them signing Cat. I think it goes without saying that the Clippers won't be opening up their wallets. So who is left? The Cavs? They'll re-sign Z and/or make a run at Ray Allen. Anybody else?

So, to answer your original question, "Who starts at PF and SG next season?"

Petrie could make some deals depending on how the season finishes out, but I'm going with Kenny Thomas and Cuttino Mobley.
 
I do not want Larry Hughes. We've lost Divac, Christie and Webber within a year. The team needs another passer/playmaker.
 
The Freak said:
Notice the drastic change:

Change in team outlook: -8.1 ppg, -1.0 rpg, and -0.5 apg.

A lot of that though is because of the limited time Ratliff gets. And Ratliff is not an offensive player. He does give you blocks, a defensive presence, and an inside game. And besides, a 2 for 1 usually does have an outlook like that.

Whatever we lose from offence can be gained with Hughes. Personally, I would love to have Hughes in Sactown, but I really don't see it coming. If the Wizards don't sign him, they don't deserve to win, and if they don't, a bunch of other teams will jump at the chance to give him a contract. Hughes is an upper tier guard, the league leader in steals, a good shooter, and instant offence. If you watch any Wizards games, he's not a bad passer or rebounder for a guard, and I'm sure he can adapt to Adelman's system.
 
Hughes has turned into a stud, and may even be wising up finally. He's also a creator for his teammates as well as himself. But come o now -- guy's a stud. 21pts 6rebs 5ast 3stl and yes, teams WILL have taken notice. No way we can clear the cap room to sign him, so it would ahve to be a rtaher expensive sign and trade.

Ratliff..eh, mentioned before he's the most one dimensional player in the league outside of Bowen. Does not score, does not rebound. Just a shotblocker. Have a hard time seeing him fit here, but of course with our rampant lack of interior prsence there is an argument to be made for him. No idea why they would trade him to us for Skinner and Nasty though.

Now, refresh my memory, why are we talking about new trades only a couple of days past the midseason trade deadline again?
 
I think Cat will be back so that will take care of the 2. As far as the four goes, We have two guys with long term deals there as well, so I don't see a change happening there either. I think the offseason will depend heavily on how the Kings perform for the rest of the year. If Peja turns it around and stops pouting and starts trying and states that he wants to stay in Sac, then I don't see any changes happening.

If Peja keeps playing like he has, however, I think Petrie continues the revamping of the team and Peja gets shopped along with one of the new guys for another premier 3. Since Peja's contract is undervalued it made him difficult to trade except in a package deal and the three new guys all can be packaged to make him more tradeable.

Additionally I think BJax gets shopped as well if the Kings continue looking to revamp. Although he's been injury prone the last couple years and getting older, he's still a tremendous talent and is a 1 and that's tough to find. His contract is also relatively small and if he's shopped I wouldn't be surprised if its with one of the new guys as well.

I think a lot is riding on the next few monthes. If we perform well we already have our team for the next couple years. If we perform poorly then I expect fireworks in the offseason. Here's hoping things go well and we can avoid more trade postulation frenzies like what we had the last couple weeks for a while.
 
I Know What I'm Gonna Say ...

Let's get thru this season first .... our King's have got alot of ground to make-up and alot of work to do.

The last thing on my mind is NEXT SEASON ...
 
start daruis and PF and THE CAT at SG.

i like the way team looks right now. it's tough losing webber, but i think daruis could be a guy who could average at least 10 and 8 a night, which would be nice. i like the way the d-song thomas combo has worked so far, i'm very intrested in seeing how it works the rest of the year.
 
You never know what will come down, but I'll put my bet down that its going to be Kenny Thomas and Cuttino Mobley.
 
Welcome to the forum hrdboild


Folsom Al said:
Let's get thru this season first .... our King's have got alot of ground to make-up and alot of work to do.

The last thing on my mind is NEXT SEASON ...

Yup...I think we have had enough trade talk , trade proposal threads the last few weeks.

Give the trade threads a rest for a while. Least wait til the end of the season, you never know what could happen. If the Kings go on a good run in the playoffs and Mobley is one of the reasons why then I don't see why they wouldn't try to sign him.

Its a wait and see.. The off season is for the off season.
 
Alright so maybe it was more like 'who would you like to see starting at SG and PF next season rather than who's likely to be starting at those positions. They're pipe dreams perhaps, but can you blame me for thinking trades right now? Every Kings fan in the world is thinking trades right now cause we just had a trade last week and it was a stunning one.

You're right that Larry Hughes is most likely unobtainable. I'm sure the Wizards will want to resign him and it seems like he wants to be there to. He's got a good thing going. Maybe it's just pipe dreams, but I could have said Tracy McGrady and Kevin Garnett. Give me some credit.

As for Theo Ratliff, I don't disagree that we don't really have anything Portland would want (with the possible exception of Bobby Jackson) but I think you also have to ask how much Portland wants Theo Ratliff. There's more than one reason to trade a guy. Do you think GP was just dying to get his hands on Kenny Thomas, Corliss Williamson, and Brian Skinner? But again, I'm probably just getting carried away. I know the trade doesnt seem real likely.

And I really do think Theo Ratliff would be a great player for us. I don't think he's that one dimensional. And didn't people say Mobley was one dimensional? Or Brad Miller? Somehow they turned into passers when they came here. Couldn't we get him involved too? He's a big guy, he can make cuts for layups like Brad does. If you play good team basketball, you don't need a bunch of everymen out there, you need guys who fill roles in a system and fill them well. Isn't that what all the "webber haters" have been saying for so long? A great player is not always better for the team. Maybe we don't need 5 offensive players. Maybe a defensive specialist or two would give us a more well rounded team. There's a reason I went to a block specialist and a steal specialist as my first choices. That kind of toughness can change the pace of a game, give you easy baskets and critical stops. I know it's a sore spot around here, but you don't see the Spurs trying to outscore everybody. I'm rather sick of all the 'look how brilliant the Spurs are' talk myself, but you can't argue with results.

About some of the other comments, I'm excited about Darius and Thomas and Corliss and Skinner as quality bench players, not as starters. Sure if you give them more minutes they'll put up better numbers, but it's not all about the numbers is it? It's about winning ball games. I just don't see those guys dominating at their positions. You really need some more size and thoughness at PF. Well you do to be elite anyway, and we all want to be elite don't we? We want to be the ones challenging the single season wins record and winning championships and sitting atop the Power Rankings week after week.

As for Peja, I really hope he doesn't get traded cause there's not one player in the league who'd be equal value for him. He's a shooter but he's big. He's big for the SF spot even. And he moves without the ball, catches and shoots better than anyone in the league (well Bibby's pretty good at that too :) ) Look at the other shooters in the league, they're shooting guards. Maybe he's been a disappointment in the playoffs and weak on the boards, but I still see a lot of potential in him and I think he's our most valuable asset. I think that's why Petrie's been so against trading him from the very beginning. And I was a big Webber fan too, so don't put me into one of those camps. I knew he'd have a tremendous year and he did, but the sad truth is that the team plays better without him. I thought last season was a fluke, but it doesn't seem to be. Anyway, I don't want to go into any of that now cause it's still a tough pill to swallow. If only they'd all won that championship in '02 like they deserved this wouldn't be so hard to take. But that's just the way it happened. Ever since '02 we've been trying to patch the holes and keep the ship together the past two season's so we can get back to where we were but maybe the best solution is just to scrap it and build a ship that doesn't sink instead. It's not like we have to scrap everything though.

Anyway I still enjoy watching the Kings (or more often reading the play-by-play now) and I look forward to whatever changes this team makes in the near future. I love that feeling at the beginning of a season of infinite hope. That this could be the team to go all the way. It's funny how much you grow to love the guys in the Kings uniforms over the course of a season. When they're not just names anymore. They're the guy who made that timely steal or that buzzer beating three pointer. They may just be here a season and we love them forever after that. I think those same feelings will be there whoever's on the team. It'd just be nice to feel like winners again instead of 'the team that nearly was...but isn't'. So I put a lot of thought into elaborate ideas like this of what the team could be. It's all a bunch of silliness anyway. But thanks for indulging me.
 
Hey bro, great post, man!

Welcome to the boards. I thought your ideas were slightly hard to believe, but still good ideas nonetheless. I hope you stick around, this season might surprise you. I think this group, with the return of Peja (and hopefully BoJax late in the season) has a chance to turn some heads.

If Peja becomes the superstar that he never was (who knows, it might happen now that he knows he's the guy w/o Webber's interference) we could pull this thing off. Maybe now I'm dreaming, but I will forever have that infite hope for the championship as long as we have the guys on the floor we do. Its going to be fun, and I know I'm going to enjoy these next 3 months.

-B
 
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