Who is available as 6th-7th pick
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My guess is that the top five picks will be (in no particular order): Nerlens Noel, Ben McLemore, Trey Burke, Anthony Bennett, and Otto Porter.
I'd really love to be able to draft Porter at the #6 slot in this draft, but I don't see it happening.
The most talented pick left on the board at that point is probably Shabazz Muhammad, but he really doesn't fit well in terms of position (the last thing we need is another SG). Victor Oladipo also falls into the SG category, but he brings some tenacious defense and would possibly be a better fit - if we could find a way to get him in the court.
At PG, there's not much outside of Burke and Carter-Williams, but I'm not 100% sold on MCW. His shot is way too broken.
I like Alex Len's size and fundamentals at C. Cody Zeller seems to play a little weak to me and probably ends up at PF, so I might be more inclined to go with Kelly Olynyk if we go with a big man. Obviously Dieng can play some D, as can Withey, but I don't think either is going to bring much on the offensive end.
If we want to get a SF and Porter is in fact gone, our best bet is probably to take a stab at a European player - there's Dario Saric who is 6'10" and has been on the NBA radar for a while, but I'm not sure what he can do; there's Sergey Karasev, who I don't know much about; and there's the draft riser Giannis Adetokoubo who is 6'9", pretty new to the game of basketball, and could be a special two-way player if you fix his shot. I'm not nearly so high on Glenn Robinson as Darth Divac is.
So, having listed all of those guys, we probably take somebody else.
I'd really love to be able to draft Porter at the #6 slot in this draft, but I don't see it happening.
The most talented pick left on the board at that point is probably Shabazz Muhammad, but he really doesn't fit well in terms of position (the last thing we need is another SG). Victor Oladipo also falls into the SG category, but he brings some tenacious defense and would possibly be a better fit - if we could find a way to get him in the court.
At PG, there's not much outside of Burke and Carter-Williams, but I'm not 100% sold on MCW. His shot is way too broken.
I like Alex Len's size and fundamentals at C. Cody Zeller seems to play a little weak to me and probably ends up at PF, so I might be more inclined to go with Kelly Olynyk if we go with a big man. Obviously Dieng can play some D, as can Withey, but I don't think either is going to bring much on the offensive end.
If we want to get a SF and Porter is in fact gone, our best bet is probably to take a stab at a European player - there's Dario Saric who is 6'10" and has been on the NBA radar for a while, but I'm not sure what he can do; there's Sergey Karasev, who I don't know much about; and there's the draft riser Giannis Adetokoubo who is 6'9", pretty new to the game of basketball, and could be a special two-way player if you fix his shot. I'm not nearly so high on Glenn Robinson as Darth Divac is.
So, having listed all of those guys, we probably take somebody else.
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trading the pick seems ideal, but acquiring more young talent in need of development (mediocre talent at that, this deep into the draft) shouldn't be the goal. for at least two years, the best idea would've been to finally acquire some veteran talent in order to steady this ship and it's (probably) been put off because of Maloof money grabs. this year, with new ownership, it's time.
I'm not objecting to that at all. But you see, there's this thing called free agency. Get rid of a couple bad contracts, and we can sign some decent veteran FAs. Make sure that they fit around Reke and Cuz. Then draft some dudes to groom as future replacements for those veterans. Simple formula. Reke. Cousins. Veterans. Young players whom we develop behind said veterans. New coach. Proper rotations. Real offensive system. All-Stars. Playoffs. Championship.
traditionally, Sacramento and the free agency haven't been friends. but aside from that, this year's free agency crop doesn't yield a real impact player, at least not for the Kings to acquire. however, stick that pick in a package with Marcus Thornton, maybe put another asset with some value on it (Thompson, Fredette, Thomas) and you have something that might get you somewhere. IF the team stays, it may bring you another honeymoon season with the fans, where they don't care too much about the team sucking, won't be the same with the players, especially Cuz, who's coming up for an extension. nevermind that the new fo will most certainly want to make a splash and drafting two guys in the middling rounds of a, by all accounts, bad draft most certainly isn't that.
traditionally, Sacramento and the free agency haven't been friends. but aside from that, this year's free agency crop doesn't yield a real impact player, at least not for the Kings to acquire. however, stick that pick in a package with Marcus Thornton, maybe put another asset with some value on it (Thompson, Fredette, Thomas) and you have something that might get you somewhere. IF the team stays, it may bring you another honeymoon season with the fans, where they don't care too much about the team sucking, won't be the same with the players, especially Cuz, who's coming up for an extension. nevermind that the new fo will most certainly want to make a splash and drafting two guys in the middling rounds of a, by all accounts, bad draft most certainly isn't that.
Glenn Robinson III is going back to Michigan. I like Dieng, but I'm not a big fan of Carter-Williams. The dude can't shoot the rock. I like Oladipo at number 6. I'm a big fan of Otto Porter, and he could slide to us.. I also like the Kid from Russia, Karasev. He really impressed me int the Nike Summit Challenge.
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One doesn't have to be in lieu of the other. You can still add veteran talent, and draft a young player. One is for the present, and the other is for the future. Aside from a couple of players, the talent level in this draft is fairly equal depending on what your looking for. I don't think picking a player that ranked in the late teens or early twentys, is that much of a reach from the 6th or 7th position if you really like that player. Chandler Parsons went around 34th, and if the draft were re-done, he'd go in the top ten now. People shouldn't get that caught up in where the draft boards rank players. Its just someone's opinion.
Adams is very, very raw! I think he has a lot of potential, but he's a couple of years away from being a contributer. I've heard good things about Saric, but I can't really comment on someone I haven't seen play. However, Karasev is definitely a talented player at SF. I also like Jeff Withey, who is the second best shotblocker in college this year behind Noel. I would take him or Dieng before I took Adams. Once again, my first too choices are Porter at SF, or Oladipo, maybe the best defensive player in college this past season, and who shot close to 50% from the three.
I'm not sure what drafting Oladipo has to do with releasing Douglas. Douglas is a PG, and Oladipo is a 6'6" SG that can guard all three perimeter positions. He could if needed play some SF because of his large wingspan, but I like him at SG as his best position. Now if your implying that we have too many guards, then I agree with you. Personally, I'd amnesty Salmons, and use either IT or Thornton as trade bait to aquire a veteran SF. Anyway, when it come's to the draft, you pick the player that you think is the best pick, and figure out the rest later during the offseason.
I'm not sure what you mean by assests? We have the ability to get significantly under the cap, so we can certainly position ourselves financially. Our biggest unknown in that area is Tyreke. Its a shame we couldn't get this settled before the deadline one way or the other. As it is now, there will be a cap hold against us until we either relinquish his rights, or resign him. So we need to make a decision quickly in order to have flexability during the freeagent period.
I think people underestimate whats possible. If all goes as planned, the Kings will finally have stability, and thats more important than people think. Hire the right GM, and coach, put money on the table, and I think most would be surprised at how many nibbles we get. The team, and the fan base have been corrupted with a losing attitude. All that can change on the turning of a dime. Does anyone think the Warriors would have a problem attracting freeagents? The answer is no, and it took them only one year to turn it around. I think its also important, when you look at the Warriors, to take note of the fact that a high percentage of their most important players, were drafted by the Warriors. With the new CBA, and the luxury tax changes that came with it, more teams are going to depend on the draft than before.
I think people underestimate whats possible. If all goes as planned, the Kings will finally have stability, and thats more important than people think. Hire the right GM, and coach, put money on the table, and I think most would be surprised at how many nibbles we get. The team, and the fan base have been corrupted with a losing attitude. All that can change on the turning of a dime. Does anyone think the Warriors would have a problem attracting freeagents? The answer is no, and it took them only one year to turn it around. I think its also important, when you look at the Warriors, to take note of the fact that a high percentage of their most important players, were drafted by the Warriors. With the new CBA, and the luxury tax changes that came with it, more teams are going to depend on the draft than before.
things with trade value, essentially. expendable things with trade value, to be more precise. there's Thornton, a good scorer on a reasonable contract, but his trade value might have been tarnished by last year. theres Thompson a solid rotation big on another reasonable contract. then there's IT, who doesn't command enough salary to be traded on his own and lastly there's Jimmer, who by now will probably have little to no value on the open market. the pick, packaged with Thornton and/or Thompson is the Kings' best shot at getting a good player for one of the trouble spots.
the Warriors are a good model, but I disagree that it only took them a year. the main pieces getting them into the playoffs have been there (Curry and Lee, mainly) have been there for a couple of years and they pretty blatantly tanked to fall to a spot where they could get Barnes. Landry and Jack were the main moves from last offseason and both were under-the-radar and fairly brilliant, but the main pieces, your Currys, Thompsons, Lees and Boguts, were already in place.
the Warriors are a good model, but I disagree that it only took them a year. the main pieces getting them into the playoffs have been there (Curry and Lee, mainly) have been there for a couple of years and they pretty blatantly tanked to fall to a spot where they could get Barnes. Landry and Jack were the main moves from last offseason and both were under-the-radar and fairly brilliant, but the main pieces, your Currys, Thompsons, Lees and Boguts, were already in place.
Well, they just traded for Bogut, so he wasn't in place prior to last season. My point about turning it around, is that the Kings, whether you agree or not, have some core players already in place, similar to the Warriors. And like the Warriors prior to last season and new ownership, the Kings are a mish mash of players that don't exactly fit together properly. What the Warriors did was keep their core players in place, and change out the moving parts around them so they fit better. It doesn't make the Warriors a championship team, but it does make them considerably better and a playoff team. But it took some housecleaning to accomplish that. I think thats possible for the Kings as well.
I think where we missed at a meeting of minds, is that you were talking about trading for veteran players, where you need valuable assets to aquire valuable assets, and I was talking about freeagency, and the Kings ability to free up considerable capspace if they want to go in that direction. In the trading asset area, its important to remember that how we view our own players, is not always how others view them. I remember well a few years ago when many on this fourm wanted the Kings to trade the kitchen sink for Outlaw, when he appeared to be an emerging star for the T Blazers. Now many of those same people would trade away Outlaw for a hotdog and a beer. Value is in the eye of the beholder, and in the selling ability of the salesman.
While I agree with you that from a Kings fan prospective, we have few assets that I like, and hold as a valuable tool in a trade, that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't covet that player, and see's him in an entirely different light. Jon Barry had little value when we aquired him, but he became very valuable to us, and later, to others. Matt Barnes, our hometown boy, was nothing more than a throw away piece in a trade for many years of his career, and now he's made himself into a very specialized, but valuable player.
Give me a good GM and a good coach first, and then lets renew this conversation. I don't disagree with you, I just see it from a different angle.
I think where we missed at a meeting of minds, is that you were talking about trading for veteran players, where you need valuable assets to aquire valuable assets, and I was talking about freeagency, and the Kings ability to free up considerable capspace if they want to go in that direction. In the trading asset area, its important to remember that how we view our own players, is not always how others view them. I remember well a few years ago when many on this fourm wanted the Kings to trade the kitchen sink for Outlaw, when he appeared to be an emerging star for the T Blazers. Now many of those same people would trade away Outlaw for a hotdog and a beer. Value is in the eye of the beholder, and in the selling ability of the salesman.
While I agree with you that from a Kings fan prospective, we have few assets that I like, and hold as a valuable tool in a trade, that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't covet that player, and see's him in an entirely different light. Jon Barry had little value when we aquired him, but he became very valuable to us, and later, to others. Matt Barnes, our hometown boy, was nothing more than a throw away piece in a trade for many years of his career, and now he's made himself into a very specialized, but valuable player.
Give me a good GM and a good coach first, and then lets renew this conversation. I don't disagree with you, I just see it from a different angle.
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Two guys I really like are Alex Len and Victor Oladipo, both projected to go somewhere in that 6-8 range. The key is both guys are defense-first players and you can tell they enjoy going hard on that end of the floor. I'm especially intrigued with Len; his size/athleticism, an offensive game that's making huge strides, plus his defensive ability would be a great asset to add. We'd have to trust DMC could guard PF's, but I for one love the idea of having two behemoths in the paint to clog lanes
My top 6 has only slightly changed - After number 1, in no particular order: Noels, McLemore, Oladipo, Porter, Burke, Karasev. The more I think about the Karasev, the more I like him, and that's saying something as I've liked him for quite a while. He's not the defender we need, and we can't keep ignoring that, but he's going to be good, and if he's the BPA and there's no defensive player worth taking at our spot, I'd happily grab him.
As stated, I'm a huge Oladipo fan. Len is, was, hard to get a good read on in some areas. I watched Maryland play a lot, and unfortunately, Maryland was loaded with trigger happy perimeter players that somehow couldn't see Len, at 7'1" standing there. So offensively, its hard to say how good he is at present. Athleticly, I think he's a little above average, and at times a bit mechanical, especially on offense. Defensively, he's a pretty good man defender, and has the length to be an intimidating player around the basket.
The thing with Len is, he's young, and he played better than expected despite little help from his guard. I can easily see him being a very good player down the road. What I can't see is him on the floor with Cousins as a twin tower duo. I could be wrong! As I said, personally, I had a hard time getting a read on him. No such trouble with Oladipo, but he's an entirely different kind of player. I really like Karasev. Watched him for the third time, and I think he has the tools to be a good defender, but even if he's average, all of his other tools far out weigh his deficits.
The thing with Len is, he's young, and he played better than expected despite little help from his guard. I can easily see him being a very good player down the road. What I can't see is him on the floor with Cousins as a twin tower duo. I could be wrong! As I said, personally, I had a hard time getting a read on him. No such trouble with Oladipo, but he's an entirely different kind of player. I really like Karasev. Watched him for the third time, and I think he has the tools to be a good defender, but even if he's average, all of his other tools far out weigh his deficits.
I think its possible. All depends on the teams above us and their needs. Everyone see's players differently, and to be honest, after Noel, who has special skills that translate well to the NBA, the difference between the number 2 spot in the draft and the number 8 spot in the draft aren't that different in quality. Its a matter of whether your looking for immediate help (which I think we are if possible) or your throwing the dice on a potential star, like McLemore. Porter, Oladipo, and Burke certainly fall into the catagory of helping right now. Guys like McLemore, Carter-Williams, Len and Anthony Bennett fall into the possible star catagory. I'm not sure where Muhammad falls. Don't like him and don't care!
The player with the most potential in my opinion is McLemore, but as the great Vince Lombardi said, " If they say you have potential, it means you haven't done anything yet". I'd be happy with several of the players available. I don't look at any of them as our savior, but as another building block. And, every once in a while, one will surprise you. Or maybe not surprise you. Maybe you just didn't listen to your gut. Example: Everytime I watched Chandler Parsons play, I came away thinking, wow, this kid is really good, why isn't he ranked higher. I think the reason was that he had a very sloppy, disjointed look to him when he played, and it made you ignore the results of his play. My gut told me he was going to be good, but everything else told me that he didn't belong in the top group. Turns out my gut was right. I had the same feelings about Kenneth Faried, although he was more acclaimed than Parsons. There are players that just don't fit the prototype of the NBA player, that end up being very good players.
The player with the most potential in my opinion is McLemore, but as the great Vince Lombardi said, " If they say you have potential, it means you haven't done anything yet". I'd be happy with several of the players available. I don't look at any of them as our savior, but as another building block. And, every once in a while, one will surprise you. Or maybe not surprise you. Maybe you just didn't listen to your gut. Example: Everytime I watched Chandler Parsons play, I came away thinking, wow, this kid is really good, why isn't he ranked higher. I think the reason was that he had a very sloppy, disjointed look to him when he played, and it made you ignore the results of his play. My gut told me he was going to be good, but everything else told me that he didn't belong in the top group. Turns out my gut was right. I had the same feelings about Kenneth Faried, although he was more acclaimed than Parsons. There are players that just don't fit the prototype of the NBA player, that end up being very good players.
We'd have to wait for the official measurements, but I suspect Tyreke is bigger than Oladipo and putting 'Reke at the 3 was pretty much smallball as it was. I'd be hesitant to keep playing small, but if we can find a SF some other way, a Tyreke/Oladipo/Legit SF lineup could be pretty scary (in a good way to some, in a bad way to those who don't like Tyreke at the point). I do like Oladipo's effort/hustle/shot from the 2 and I get a Tony-Allen-or-better vibe. Not bad from this draft, so I could warm on Victor.