Look at Porter in high school they way he scored but the way he moved dude was a stiff no way did he move like a SF. He was extremely overrated with people saying he’s gonna be a great scorer he’s a good shooter. But he lacked in ball handling and he was only a good athlete in straight line drives.
Who do you want, if the Kings pick #6 to #8 overall in the draft?
- Thread starter ockingsfan
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Look at Porter in high school they way he scored but the way he moved dude was a stiff no way did he move like a SF. He was extremely overrated with people saying he’s gonna be a great scorer he’s a good shooter. But he lacked in ball handling and he was only a good athlete in straight line drives.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Yeah, I think you would have to expect some rust, actually, a lot of rust. When recovering from some injuries, you can still work on parts of your game, but with a back injury, almost anything you do affects the back, so it's hard to first, stay in any kind of shape, and two, practice anything of note related to basketball. My main concern would be what the doctors have to say. If he can get a clean bill of health, and he falls to us, I think you seriously have to consider taking him, depending on who else is available.
My personal biased choice is still Mikal Bridges. Some see him as an impact 3 and D player, but I think, like Kawhi, he can be more than that. I could be wrong of course and maybe its all wishful thinking on my part, but I'd like to find out. In case some still haven't had a chance to get a look at him, this is one of the best videos I've seen of him.
I disagree with you. He was a fluid athlete for a SF with a good explosiveness. If you think he's stiff, just watch a few highlights.
Of course there's some questions whether or not he'll be able to regain the same athleticism after his back surgery. If you watched him in the 2 games at Missouri, you don't see the same type of explosion, but he said he was only playing at 65%. You could also tell his conditioning wasn't there yet.
His ball handling is a weakness right now imo. Not weak in terms of having 0 handles, but weak because he has lack of advanced dribbles. He does a great job using both head and ball fakes, but when they don't work, he's SOL. In ISO situations, he's limited because he doesn't have the ball handling to get him all the way to the rim, nor does he have the quickness to "cheat" himself there. You often see him rely on his strength which doesn't workout well. However, don't mistake his lack of ball handling for his ability to create offense. He actually does a good job creating space solely by using his head fakes. Defenders still have to respect potential drives to the basket, so they give him a fair amount of space. Another thing that "compensates" for his lack of driving ability in the half-court is his very good shooting ability. Being 6'10, he can easily shoot over the top of defenses. He can be trigger happy, but at least he has a quick trigger.
2:13, quickly shoots off the curl, although he misses it very short. had a driving lane if he wanted to take it.
2:23, 15ft curl, as you see in this scenario(like the last) he has the option to shoot or drive. he puts 1 dribble on the floor to get the defender to back up just enough so he can get his shot off.
2:40, quick catch turnaround J after he realizes defender is far enough off him
2:55, catch and shoot 3pter on PnP
3:53, slips back for a 3pter
These are just some examples of his quick trigger. He missed most of them, but you can see he has the right idea with those shots. Anytime a defender gives him space, he'll have no problem letting it fly.
My bigger concern with MPJ is his injury and his lack of a mid-range game. I know it's dinosaur talk, but I want to see him have 3 level scoring. Oddly enough, he's better with his back to the basket down at the low-post than he is in the mid-range.
The Effort Police
Starter
The main question is whether Joerger is going to give him that 82 game sample size. Maybe now he's proven himself in Joerger's book and he will get 30+ mpg next year, but he's never given Buddy the leeway he gave Hill or Temple and I'm not sure that changes.
Yeah that's also my worry with Joerger, but he's adjusted as this season went along. He started off the year being extremely strict on young players. Yank them out when they're doing bad. Surround struggling young players with vets. Mix up lineups to give everyone an opportunity to see PT with different rotations. I don't think he thought the young players were ready to be handed the keys. However maybe that'll change now since they have at least 1 year under their belts. Maybe we'll see him be a little more forgiving on mistakes.
Sactown ExPat
Starter
This is a great encapsulation of why people are missing the mark on MPJ. Don’t get mesmerized by the dunks. He has a great vertical. He will make monster dunks. In every other facet of measurable athleticism he is average. He will not be a playmaker, because he will never be able to turn the corner on an average or better defender unless his handle improves a lot—which is possible. It’s just not likely. If you draft MPJ you need to be comfortable with the likelihood that he will be a volume shooting stretch 4. Those guys can be valuable (i.e. Peja), but they’re not the heir apparent to Kevin Durant. Again, MPJ could be very valuable, but we really, really need to recalibrate expectations for this kid.
I’ll try to draw an analogy to another couple sports and see if it helps. MPJ is like a possession WR with a big vertical...he makes spectacular plays in the red zone, but otherwise needs the QB to throw him open and he’s not getting any YACs. Or, a target striker with a big vert...great on corners and set pieces, but not athletic enough to create goals on his own in the run of play. Don’t be fooled by the vert.
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Exactly
You’re overrating his athleticism dude is a level below a guy like Harrison Barnes now add in the injury and no handles.
You’re overrating his athleticism dude is a level below a guy like Harrison Barnes now add in the injury and no handles.
burekijogurt
Starter
maybe some of that strictness by the coach contributed to Buddy's improvement? he seems much more focused and serious at both ends then he was earlier in the season. i think a lot of those mistakes he was getting yanked for were coming from lack of concentration and focus more than anything else...
Telemachus
Starter
I agree. buddy was averaging about 2.5 bonehead plays on both offence AND defense earlier in the season. He has cut that back to a little over 1 total while playing more minutes in the last 15 or so games.
Well I didn't just mesmerize on his dunks. If you took a look at the time marks I gave in the highlight video, some of it actually off his burst..which has nothing to do with his vertical. Take a look at his speed in the open court, you can't tell me he's unathletic or lacks athleticism at the SF position.
I think you might need to view MPJ in a different light. He's not someone who's going to be a playmaker. As a matter of fact, his entire repertoire coming into this season was being a good shooter with a great scoring instinct, specifically from the perimeter. The second video showed exactly that. To your other point about expecations, I barely see anyone talk about MPJ on this board. In fact, I think there's more discussion about Miles Bridges than there is MPJ. If you're talking media-wise, ESPN/DraftExpress recently released their mockdraft where they had MPJ going #8 or #9 to the Cavs.
I think the concerns over his athleticism are overblown(unless you don't think he can get back to his athletic form pre-surgery). I think he showed to be more than a capable athlete at SF. I've used his pre-injury videos to highlight this(notice, I didn't use HS tape). I do agree that his handles are a weakness, I'm not disputing that. However, I am disputing that he can't create on his own. Yes he is limited by his lack of advanced moves and elite quickness, but he's still able to create space and get off good-looks despite it all. Wouldn't you agree that it's a good starting point for a SF prospect? Even if you think he's a poor athlete without handles, give me another college 6'10 Forward who can shoot the ball the way MPJ does. His shooting on its very own is special imo.
Barnes is an athletic SF though.....
I completely understand what you guys are saying though. He's not as athletic as the top SFs even when healthy. I just think that his shooting ability combined with improvements to his ball handling can help him become a top tier SF in the NBA, maybe even franchise player.
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Telemachus
Starter
The key with Porter is if he can get 100% healthy. I mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. Porter played on the same AAU team as Trae Young, and people always came away talking about Porter with Young as an afterthought.
Sactown ExPat
Starter
We actually agree on everything regarding the MPJ evaluation. The one difference, it seems, is the definition of a SF. For me, a SF in today’s game needs to reliably create their own shot and playmake for others AND defend their counterpart on the other end (at least in crunch time). If they can’t create, then they need to be “3 & D”, with All-NBA level defense if they are going to start for a contender (i.e. Ariza).
For me, MPJ is too stiff in the hips to reliably playmake in today’s game. Even with a great handle I think he would have a tough time beating the second man or running the P&R, etc. Which is fine, alot of guys can’t do that and are still very valuable. The problem is, I don’t think he has anything close to the lateral agility and flexibility needed to reliably defend SFs as a “3&D” guy. I’ve just never seen it in his film. Great straight line speed, monster vert, nice first step...average to poor agility. Which makes him, IMO, a premium stretch 4 prospect. Again, very valuable in the right system and I am sure Vlade/Peja see him for what he is and not for the hype. He basically has the same game as Peja. I think 15-20 years ago MPJ would have been a revelatory SF, because he will be able to create enough space to get his own shot. But, in today’s game the SF position typically carries more playmaking responsibility. And, I just can’t think of a way for him to defend SFs on a truly contending team; I just can’t think of a crunch-time lineup configuration that would compensate for his inability to cover the SF.
kingsfan1984
Starter
Im skipping Jackson and Bamba in favor of a SF prospect in Mikal or Porter...what makes this decision i think fairly easy is at the end of the day, defensive big men are found further down in the draft at a decent rate. Id wager that will become even more true in the future as the big man is getting more and more marginalized all the time.
I was in love with Jackson early in season but i think it is a HUGE flag that he never got the hint frim officials about how to play defense without riding guys like they a horse. NO adjustment from him at all. Higher IQ players adjust.
I like Bamba, but he isnt as big as I thought. We hear about his wingspan, which is great, but he isnt as tall and big as a guy Gobert. Bamba is listed at just 7 ft being shorter than Gobert. He is slowish footed from what ive seen and a LONG ways away from being anything of use on the offense beyond a lob threat. If his wingspan was just a few inches shorter would he be in the discussion as a lotto pick or end of 1st rounder?
So i think it just comes down to it is easier to fill the defensive big man roll than a dynamic scoring wing position. Either in free agency or the draft a big man that does the job can be found.
NOT to mention we have WCS, Giles Skal and Hayes (he looks a solid defensive stretch big) plus Koufos already. How much of an improvement would we expect from Jackson or Bamba and then who we trade away
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ockingsfan
Starter
Thanks for the video!
Just curious on your take on Mikal Bridges being able to play SF full time in the NBA.
Do you think Mikal has the required size to play SF full time or is he a SG/SF swingman?
Mikal is 6’7 210 and had a 7’0 wingspan at the Kevin Durant skills Academy in 2013 he was 17 at the time. He will be able to play 1-4 4 as a small ball 4
CVKingsfan
Bench
I am starting to question if he will even be available when we pick? He seems to be the most versatile of the top picks?
Those numbers can be inflated. That's about how much he weighs now.
Draft combine will be interesting for him.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
give Mikal a few years in the weight room and he can pack on at least 15-20 pounds on his frame
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I'd rather take Jackson Jr., who has a ceiling of 10 and a floor of 5 than the Bridges over Mediocrity who has a ceiling of 8 and a floor of 6. If you like Bridges and 3 & D floats your boat go out and get an Ariza, a Covington, a Mbah a Moute or someone of that ilk in FA. (Sure, Bridges has a chance of becoming a Leonard - about a 1% chance). I'll take Jackson, the superior athlete, over Bridges who reminds me of Lionel Simmons in his laborious, ungainly drives to the basket. (Fluidity is not the word that comes to mind when I see Bridges). Sure, Bridges over the river Mediocrity is a safer pick, but I'm not into safety for a top tier pick. That said, I doubt that Jackson would even be there at #7 or #8. Maybe he's there at #6.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Well, Jackson is most often discussed in the top three, if not higher (the learned folks at the Stepien have him #2 behind Donicic). We'll see if he falls to six, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Most worrisome today is the news that Carter may return to Duke. (Link here: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...e-blue-devils-undecided-nba-draft-parents-say)
Iv'e been on the Mikal Brides bandwagon for awhile now. I'm not good at comparing players or pointing out aspects of their games that stand out or their weaknesses, instead just rely on sight test and how they interview.
Bridges always looks engaged, good mechanics, nice amount of swagger, plenty athletic though currently a bit thin. Anyways, if hes their at 6-8 and that's where we pick I will say job well done if he becomes a King. I think he's the player teams will kick themselves down the road for passing on or overthinking.
Bridges always looks engaged, good mechanics, nice amount of swagger, plenty athletic though currently a bit thin. Anyways, if hes their at 6-8 and that's where we pick I will say job well done if he becomes a King. I think he's the player teams will kick themselves down the road for passing on or overthinking.
Mike
Bench
Mikal is a similar player to Danny Green or Otto Porter. They are glue guys that are important, but teams in the top half dozen will want more than that and will pursue the greater upside of the other prospects.
I do agree that a team that takes a risk on Bamba or Jackson's upside might regret if they don't develop whereas Mikal becomes an elite 3 and D player, but that's the risk you sometimes need to take unless you already possess star talent.
Do we posses star talent? Fox has all star potential, but outside of him I don't think we do. So if we are picking I think we go for upside rather than the "safer" pick. Unless we believe we can grind our way to victories.
Folsomkingsfan
Starter
I'd say end of the first round, beginning of the second just based on mock drafts I've seen. Will probably be a solid back up point guard at some point.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
The Ringer's latest big board has Mikal Bridges... at 4. https://nbadraft.theringer.com/
I was about to post this.
Interesting and it has Porter Jr at 8.
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