Who do you want, if the Kings pick #6 to #8 overall in the draft?

Who do you want the Kings to pick at the #6 to #8 slot?

  • Mikal Bridges

    Votes: 24 41.4%
  • Miles Bridges

    Votes: 6 10.3%
  • Wendell Carter

    Votes: 6 10.3%
  • Jaren Jackson

    Votes: 16 27.6%
  • Kevin Knox

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Collin Sexton

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Trae Young

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Someone from the top 5 will slide to the Kings, WHO?

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • Someone else

    Votes: 2 3.4%

  • Total voters
    58
Status
Not open for further replies.
ESPN's lottery mock draft game/feature/annual tradition of Kings ineptitude is out: http://www.espn.com/nba/lottery2018/mockdraft

Givony has the Kings taking Bamba over Porter or the Bridges, with Carter usually going one pick prior. If Bamba is off the board, he has the Kings taking Porter. I've had the Kings fall to 9 once, and the Kings take Mikal Bridges with both Bamba and Porter gone. Haven't had the Kings jump into the top three yet, so nothing to report there. Glad they're not sending me to to the lottery!
 
Anyone have any thoughts on Wendell Carter? My coworker is a Bulls fan and wants to see them draft Carter if they end up drafting 6 or 7. Of all the guys discussed I've probably watched him the least. He can hit the 3 pointer, is a monster in the post, a net positive on defense. Just curious why he isn't discussed more.
 
Anyone have any thoughts on Wendell Carter? My coworker is a Bulls fan and wants to see them draft Carter if they end up drafting 6 or 7. Of all the guys discussed I've probably watched him the least. He can hit the 3 pointer, is a monster in the post, a net positive on defense. Just curious why he isn't discussed more.
I've talked about him quite a bit but we've had so many similar threads on the draft that I can't remember which one it was.

He's one of my favorite prospects in the entire draft. I think he will wind up being the 2nd best of the group of Ayton, Jaren Jackson and Bamba. I can see Carter averaging 14ppg, 10rpg and 4apg with 1.5blocks for a long time. Those numbers won't knock your socks off but he's going to allow you to be extremely versatile with your roster since he can do just about everything. He can spread the floor, pass the ball in and out of the post, has post moves, rebounds, isn't soft and is a solid defender. He can play along side a stretch 4 or a non shooting 4 whether it's Giles, Skal, WCS or whoever else we sign.

I think the Al Horford comparison is the most spot on comparison of any player in the draft this year. The only downside is he isn't elite at any one thing so his ceiling is probably lower than some of the other prospects but he's good at so many different things that I think he has one of the highest floors of any player as well. Very safe pick IMO. Only question is, are the Kings in a situation where they need to pick safely or do they need to shoot for something more if that player is available?
 
I've talked about him quite a bit but we've had so many similar threads on the draft that I can't remember which one it was.

He's one of my favorite prospects in the entire draft. I think he will wind up being the 2nd best of the group of Ayton, Jaren Jackson and Bamba. I can see Carter averaging 14ppg, 10rpg and 4apg with 1.5blocks for a long time. Those numbers won't knock your socks off but he's going to allow you to be extremely versatile with your roster since he can do just about everything. He can spread the floor, pass the ball in and out of the post, has post moves, rebounds, isn't soft and is a solid defender. He can play along side a stretch 4 or a non shooting 4 whether it's Giles, Skal, WCS or whoever else we sign.

I think the Al Horford comparison is the most spot on comparison of any player in the draft this year. The only downside is he isn't elite at any one thing so his ceiling is probably lower than some of the other prospects but he's good at so many different things that I think he has one of the highest floors of any player as well. Very safe pick IMO. Only question is, are the Kings in a situation where they need to pick safely or do they need to shoot for something more if that player is available?
I must've missed the discussion on him. I pretty much agree with everything you said. I never really watched the guy, but I was surprised after watching his highlights. I think he is going to wind up being a very solid big for a long time at the pro level. I've been pretty indifferent with most of the guys discussed in this range, but between MPJ, Bamba, Young, Bridges, Jackson, and Carter I think Carter is number 2 for me right now after MPJ who I think we have to go with if he is there just because of his ceiling.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
Anyone have any thoughts on Wendell Carter? My coworker is a Bulls fan and wants to see them draft Carter if they end up drafting 6 or 7. Of all the guys discussed I've probably watched him the least. He can hit the 3 pointer, is a monster in the post, a net positive on defense. Just curious why he isn't discussed more.
I also like Carter a lot. I voted Jackson in this poll but I have Wendell Carter ranked 4th, just after Doncic, Ayton, and Jackson. He was overshadowed by Bagley at Duke this year as Bagley was the guy putting up 30 point games and pulling in 20 rebounds and winning first team All-American honors as a freshman. The thing is though, when I watched Duke this season I was more impressed by Carter. He was the guy locking down the post defensively, knocking down three pointers all season long, and making smart passes out to the wings. It's easy to see his game translating to the NBA. I'm curious how his season would have gone if Bagley hadn't declared early and picked Duke. I still like Bagley -- that kid is a born scorer and a force on the offensive boards in particular. But Carter has a more diverse skillset and the only real negative with him is that he isn't freakishly big or athletic. I don't think that really matters though since he obviously has the skills to be a big contributor on both ends of the floor. I'm a little surprised a two-way threat at the Center position isn't more highly valued but I think his stock is much higher with the actual teams than the internet draft mocksters.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
I'm comparing it to how pathetic the last month + of the regular season was with Lins and resting stars.
that too has been the norm the last couple of seasons, teams tanking left and right, its just been happening more often now than before because teams know they won't get penalized for it.
 
ESPN's lottery mock draft game/feature/annual tradition of Kings ineptitude is out: http://www.espn.com/nba/lottery2018/mockdraft

Givony has the Kings taking Bamba over Porter or the Bridges, with Carter usually going one pick prior. If Bamba is off the board, he has the Kings taking Porter. I've had the Kings fall to 9 once, and the Kings take Mikal Bridges with both Bamba and Porter gone. Haven't had the Kings jump into the top three yet, so nothing to report there. Glad they're not sending me to to the lottery!
I played it once and the kings had the first pick. They chose Ayton. Thought it best not to play a second time.

The single paragraph they provide on each prospect is no different now in the Givony days than it was in the Chad 'drives over pot holes to scout' Ford days. I don't read insider but wonder if ESPN has just paid for a name they can place next to their content (or simply to remove a competitor).

I will support and be interested in whoever the kings draft. I am too often wrong about ability and outlook. That being said Bamba is the kind of pick I would be most cynical of...
 
ESPN's lottery mock draft game/feature/annual tradition of Kings ineptitude is out: http://www.espn.com/nba/lottery2018/mockdraft

Givony has the Kings taking Bamba over Porter or the Bridges, with Carter usually going one pick prior. If Bamba is off the board, he has the Kings taking Porter. I've had the Kings fall to 9 once, and the Kings take Mikal Bridges with both Bamba and Porter gone. Haven't had the Kings jump into the top three yet, so nothing to report there. Glad they're not sending me to to the lottery!
First time I had a try and got #1 and picked Ayton. Hopefully an omen! :D
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I'm comparing it to how pathetic the last month + of the regular season was with Lins and resting stars.
Yep. Like night and day. And it's not just the last month of the regular season that is a stark contrast - it's the entire regular season. The playoffs are where the real season begins.
 
I've talked about him quite a bit but we've had so many similar threads on the draft that I can't remember which one it was.

He's one of my favorite prospects in the entire draft. I think he will wind up being the 2nd best of the group of Ayton, Jaren Jackson and Bamba. I can see Carter averaging 14ppg, 10rpg and 4apg with 1.5blocks for a long time. Those numbers won't knock your socks off but he's going to allow you to be extremely versatile with your roster since he can do just about everything. He can spread the floor, pass the ball in and out of the post, has post moves, rebounds, isn't soft and is a solid defender. He can play along side a stretch 4 or a non shooting 4 whether it's Giles, Skal, WCS or whoever else we sign.

I think the Al Horford comparison is the most spot on comparison of any player in the draft this year. The only downside is he isn't elite at any one thing so his ceiling is probably lower than some of the other prospects but he's good at so many different things that I think he has one of the highest floors of any player as well. Very safe pick IMO. Only question is, are the Kings in a situation where they need to pick safely or do they need to shoot for something more if that player is available?
I see this a lot with the analysis of Carter and it honestly just blows my mind. Getting a Al Horford ceiling player isn't a "Swing for the fences" pick? Dude is a top 25 player in the game, probably could argue for higher.

I want players who help me win games. For all the hype Bagley got (and deserved), Carter was their best player. He was a legitimate difference maker on both ends of the floor. Bamba and Jackson get all the defensive hype because of their gaudy shot-blocking numbers and crazy length, but again, Carter was the more impactful defender last season than both of them. As far as his offensive upside goes, Carter made a conscious effort to fit in and more often than not make the right play rather than "get his" as players of his caliber usually will try to do. I think there's another level their scoring wise for him if an NBA team makes an effort to make him a feature player. Him being on Duke and not getting the shots he probably deserved is likely the only reason he'll be in the conversation for us at 7.
 
Yep. Like night and day. And it's not just the last month of the regular season that is a stark contrast - it's the entire regular season. The playoffs are where the real season begins.
Which is why I was so hesitant to buy tickets this year against all the good teams. The risk of them resting players is so high now that I just don't want to spend the money and wind up getting burned. I remember spending a ton of money to go to the Kings Clippers game a few years ago and they ended up resting Cp3, Griffin, and Jordan.
 
Watching the playoffs it’s pretty obvious drafting a big ego isn’t generational is a waste of time.

Shooting shooting shooting and playmaking win in this era. I’m drafting Young if he’s there when we are up hos game is tailor made for this.
 
Watching the playoffs it’s pretty obvious drafting a big ego isn’t generational is a waste of time.

Shooting shooting shooting and playmaking win in this era. I’m drafting Young if he’s there when we are up hos game is tailor made for this.
Then you need to trade Fox, right?

We don't want to play that same game we did before with drafting the same position in the lottery in back to back years. You have to know that Young is without a doubt better than Fox and that his defensive liability won't negate his offensive prowess.
 
Then you need to trade Fox, right?

We don't want to play that same game we did before with drafting the same position in the lottery in back to back years. You have to know that Young is without a doubt better than Fox and that his defensive liability won't negate his offensive prowess.
I don’t necessarily think we’d have to trade Fox. We could start Young/Bogdan with Fox/Buddy off the bench with each player getting 30mpg.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
Watching the playoffs it’s pretty obvious drafting a big ego isn’t generational is a waste of time.

Shooting shooting shooting and playmaking win in this era. I’m drafting Young if he’s there when we are up hos game is tailor made for this.
Just out of curiosity, who in this draft class would you classify as having a big ego? Or was that a spellcheck related mishap and you meant "big guy"?
 
I see this a lot with the analysis of Carter and it honestly just blows my mind. Getting a Al Horford ceiling player isn't a "Swing for the fences" pick? Dude is a top 25 player in the game, probably could argue for higher.

I want players who help me win games. For all the hype Bagley got (and deserved), Carter was their best player. He was a legitimate difference maker on both ends of the floor. Bamba and Jackson get all the defensive hype because of their gaudy shot-blocking numbers and crazy length, but again, Carter was the more impactful defender last season than both of them. As far as his offensive upside goes, Carter made a conscious effort to fit in and more often than not make the right play rather than "get his" as players of his caliber usually will try to do. I think there's another level their scoring wise for him if an NBA team makes an effort to make him a feature player. Him being on Duke and not getting the shots he probably deserved is likely the only reason he'll be in the conversation for us at 7.
It's because Horford is your 3rd best player on a contending team. He's not a swing for the fences player. I'm sorry, but I think you have to throw logic out of the window when it comes to Brad Stevens. The guy made IT a legitimate MVP candidate......I think he's the best coach in the NBA right now. Look at the way he constructs his roster and gets the very most out of every player. Hell...look at Terry Rozier.

Going back to Horford, I think he's a good player, but he's not top 25 in the game. It's a product of Brad Stevens more than anything imo. He's the guy who you add to fit the roster, not a guy you build around.

Go back to his Atlanta days. I don't think anyone was calling him a top 25 player, and he was better in 2012 than he is now.
 
It's because Horford is your 3rd best player on a contending team. He's not a swing for the fences player. I'm sorry, but I think you have to throw logic out of the window when it comes to Brad Stevens. The guy made IT a legitimate MVP candidate......I think he's the best coach in the NBA right now. Look at the way he constructs his roster and gets the very most out of every player. Hell...look at Terry Rozier.

Going back to Horford, I think he's a good player, but he's not top 25 in the game. It's a product of Brad Stevens more than anything imo. He's the guy who you add to fit the roster, not a guy you build around.

Go back to his Atlanta days. I don't think anyone was calling him a top 25 player, and he was better in 2012 than he is now.
I agree on the Brad Stevens effect, but Horford has been very, very good for a while now: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/al-horford-atlanta-hawks-superstar/

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2015...-atlanta-hawks-sports-illustrated-top-100-nba

That's an outcome you take with the 7 pick and run with it
 
It's because Horford is your 3rd best player on a contending team. He's not a swing for the fences player. I'm sorry, but I think you have to throw logic out of the window when it comes to Brad Stevens. The guy made IT a legitimate MVP candidate......I think he's the best coach in the NBA right now. Look at the way he constructs his roster and gets the very most out of every player. Hell...look at Terry Rozier.

Going back to Horford, I think he's a good player, but he's not top 25 in the game. It's a product of Brad Stevens more than anything imo. He's the guy who you add to fit the roster, not a guy you build around.

Go back to his Atlanta days. I don't think anyone was calling him a top 25 player, and he was better in 2012 than he is now.
Doesnt mean he wasn't one.

Horford has been awesome for a long time now and people are finally just starting to believe that "PPG means you're an all-star" isn't the only criteria to judge potenial franchise players. He's one of the few guys in the NBA who can actually contribute to every facet of the game at an elite level.

That's why I believe so much in Wendell Carter. I think he has the potential to contribute in every facet at the NBA level. No, he may not ever be a 25 PPG scorer, but getting a guy who can do so much on the floor is just as important to winning basketball as that 25 PPG scorer is.
 
Just out of curiosity, who in this draft class would you classify as having a big ego? Or was that a spellcheck related mishap and you meant "big guy"?
Ya I meant big man


Doesnt mean he wasn't one.

Horford has been awesome for a long time now and people are finally just starting to believe that "PPG means you're an all-star" isn't the only criteria to judge potenial franchise players. He's one of the few guys in the NBA who can actually contribute to every facet of the game at an elite level.

That's why I believe so much in Wendell Carter. I think he has the potential to contribute in every facet at the NBA level. No, he may not ever be a 25 PPG scorer, but getting a guy who can do so much on the floor is just as important to winning basketball as that 25 PPG scorer is.
No way man 2 bigs is a waste teams will run circles around us when they go small since WCS/Giles wouldn’t be able to punish the SF enough. Mikal Bridges is the answer here
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
It's because Horford is your 3rd best player on a contending team. He's not a swing for the fences player. I'm sorry, but I think you have to throw logic out of the window when it comes to Brad Stevens. The guy made IT a legitimate MVP candidate......I think he's the best coach in the NBA right now. Look at the way he constructs his roster and gets the very most out of every player. Hell...look at Terry Rozier.

Going back to Horford, I think he's a good player, but he's not top 25 in the game. It's a product of Brad Stevens more than anything imo. He's the guy who you add to fit the roster, not a guy you build around.

Go back to his Atlanta days. I don't think anyone was calling him a top 25 player, and he was better in 2012 than he is now.
The interesting thing about that Boston team is that their offense looked terrible against Philadelphia pretty much the whole game and they still won because their defense made a pretty solid Sixers team look even worse. If anything that team is an argument for how you can get away with a barely effective offense by being elite on the other end. Over the course of the season they ranked 1st in Defensive Rating and 18th in Offensive Rating. Oh and check this out, while they were only 10th in 3pt attempts per game they were 2nd only to the Warriors in percentage at 37.7% just ahead of (gasp) our lowly Kings who rounded out the top 3 at 37.5%. So while the rest of the league continues their 3pt shooting arms race Brad Stevens' Celtics suggest a different path forward: load up on talented swingmen who can smother other team's shooters and take just enough threes to keep yourself afloat by making the few you do take at an elite rate. We've already got one half of that equation down. Yeah our offense was ugly at times but so is Boston's. They're just better than us at everything else.

And on another related note, while Al Horford is certainly not a top 25 player offensively, when you factor in his versatility he's probably a top 25 individual defender which is arguably more important (and he's been too good for too long on that end to call him a product of Brad Stevens, though I will credit Stevens for knowing how to use him effectively).

But wait! (I hear you asking) how is a top 25 defender more important than a top 25 scorer?! Top 25 scorers are the category of player that wins all the awards after all. As I've noted in other threads, teams need at least one top tier scorer but they also need at least one top tier defender. Doesn't that make them (at best) equally important? Well yeah, all things being equal it does but impact scorers always seem to outnumber impact defenders about 3 to 1. I can think of two dozen guys in the same general ballpark as say Jrue Holiday on offense. I can think of maybe 8 who favorably compare to a Tony Allen level defender. As it happens, we've got 3 players who could potentially fill that scoring role in Fox, Hield, and Bogdanovic. Unless Giles is all kinds of amazing when he gets out there, it doesn't appear that we have that top tier defender yet. We can win with the scoring guards we have now if we manage to upgrade the defense into the elite tier and that might be a more attainable goal than hoping and praying a generational scoring talent somehow falls into our laps.

And lastly... a player on Al Horford's level would be an absolute steal at pick #7. Kyrie Irving, Jaylen Brown, Al Horford and Jayson Tatum were all top 3 picks. If we land a player as capable as any of them at #7 we're doing well. Forget about the "we need a superstar" idea, that went out the window with wins 22 through 27 I'm sorry to say. Unless we win the lottery and draft Luka. :)
 
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kingsboi

Hall of Famer
The interesting thing about that Boston team is that their offense looked terrible against Philadelphia pretty much the whole game and they still won because their defense made a pretty solid Sixers team look even worse. If anything that team is an argument for how you can get away with a barely effective offense by being elite on the other end. Over the course of the season they ranked 1st in Defensive Rating and 18th in Offensive Rating. Oh and check this out, while they were only 10th in 3pt attempts per game they were 2nd only to the Warriors in percentage at 37.7% just ahead of (gasp) our lowly Kings who rounded out the top 3 at 37.5%. So while the rest of the league continues their 3pt shooting arms race Brad Stevens' Celtics suggest a different path forward: load up on talented swingmen who can smother other team's shooters and take just enough threes to keep yourself afloat by making the few you do take at an elite rate. We've already got one half of that equation down. Yeah our offense was ugly at times but so is Boston's. They're just better than us at everything else.

And on another related note, while Al Horford is certainly not a top 25 player offensively, when you factor in his versatility he's probably a top 25 individual defender which is arguably more important (and he's been too good for too long on that end to call him a product of Brad Stevens, though I will credit Stevens for knowing how to use him effectively).

But wait! (I hear you asking) how is a top 25 defender more important than a top 25 scorer?! Top 25 scorers are the category of player that wins all the awards after all. As I've noted in other threads, teams need at least one top tier scorer but they also need at least one top tier defender. Doesn't that make them (at best) equally important? Well yeah, all things being equal it does but impact scorers always seem to outnumber impact defenders about 3 to 1. I can think of two dozen guys in the same general ballpark as say Jrue Holiday on offense. I can think of maybe 8 who favorably compare to a Tony Allen level defender. As it happens, we've got 3 players who could potentially fill that scoring role in Fox, Hield, and Bogdanovic. Unless Giles is all kinds of amazing when he gets out there, it doesn't appear that we have that top tier defender yet. We can win with the scoring guards we have now if we manage to upgrade the defense into the elite tier and that might be a more attainable goal than hoping and praying a generational scoring talent somehow falls into our laps.

And lastly... a player on Al Horford's level would be an absolute steal at pick #7. Kyrie Irving, Jaylen Brown, Al Horford and Jayson Tatum were all top 3 picks. If we land a player as capable as any of them at #7 we're doing well. Forget about the "we need a superstar" idea, that went out the window with wins 22 through 27 I'm sorry to say. Unless we win the lottery and draft Luka. :)
so essentially what you are saying is you don't need just a top offense to win in this league, but you need a good enough defense to help you out in games too?
 
Doesnt mean he wasn't one.

Horford has been awesome for a long time now and people are finally just starting to believe that "PPG means you're an all-star" isn't the only criteria to judge potenial franchise players. He's one of the few guys in the NBA who can actually contribute to every facet of the game at an elite level.

That's why I believe so much in Wendell Carter. I think he has the potential to contribute in every facet at the NBA level. No, he may not ever be a 25 PPG scorer, but getting a guy who can do so much on the floor is just as important to winning basketball as that 25 PPG scorer is.
Scoring points in an NBA game is the most important thing
The interesting thing about that Boston team is that their offense looked terrible against Philadelphia pretty much the whole game and they still won because their defense made a pretty solid Sixers team look even worse. If anything that team is an argument for how you can get away with a barely effective offense by being elite on the other end. Over the course of the season they ranked 1st in Defensive Rating and 18th in Offensive Rating. Oh and check this out, while they were only 10th in 3pt attempts per game they were 2nd only to the Warriors in percentage at 37.7% just ahead of (gasp) our lowly Kings who rounded out the top 3 at 37.5%. So while the rest of the league continues their 3pt shooting arms race Brad Stevens' Celtics suggest a different path forward: load up on talented swingmen who can smother other team's shooters and take just enough threes to keep yourself afloat by making the few you do take at an elite rate. We've already got one half of that equation down. Yeah our offense was ugly at times but so is Boston's. They're just better than us at everything else.

And on another related note, while Al Horford is certainly not a top 25 player offensively, when you factor in his versatility he's probably a top 25 individual defender which is arguably more important (and he's been too good for too long on that end to call him a product of Brad Stevens, though I will credit Stevens for knowing how to use him effectively).

But wait! (I hear you asking) how is a top 25 defender more important than a top 25 scorer?! Top 25 scorers are the category of player that wins all the awards after all. As I've noted in other threads, teams need at least one top tier scorer but they also need at least one top tier defender. Doesn't that make them (at best) equally important? Well yeah, all things being equal it does but impact scorers always seem to outnumber impact defenders about 3 to 1. I can think of two dozen guys in the same general ballpark as say Jrue Holiday on offense. I can think of maybe 8 who favorably compare to a Tony Allen level defender. As it happens, we've got 3 players who could potentially fill that scoring role in Fox, Hield, and Bogdanovic. Unless Giles is all kinds of amazing when he gets out there, it doesn't appear that we have that top tier defender yet. We can win with the scoring guards we have now if we manage to upgrade the defense into the elite tier and that might be a more attainable goal than hoping and praying a generational scoring talent somehow falls into our laps.

And lastly... a player on Al Horford's level would be an absolute steal at pick #7. Kyrie Irving, Jaylen Brown, Al Horford and Jayson Tatum were all top 3 picks. If we land a player as capable as any of them at #7 we're doing well. Forget about the "we need a superstar" idea, that went out the window with wins 22 through 27 I'm sorry to say. Unless we win the lottery and draft Luka. :)
But let's be honest, we would rather have a Kyrie Irving, Jaylen Brown, or Jayson Tatum type of offensive potential than Horford's overall potential.

You bring up the idea that a top 25 defender is more important than a top 25 scorer. You know what I bring to counter that point? Marcus Smart. In an ideal world, defense should be held to the value of offense, but it's not. It's the reason why offensive specialists like Curry, Kyrie, Lillard, Harden, and Cousins are all-stars, meanwhile defensive specialists aren't. Draymond is just as good on offense as he is defense.

So we do need a superstar. That's what this team needs to compete. Show me a team in the last decade that won without a superstar. You wouldn't find one. A guy like Horford might be a steal at #7(Carter Jr), but I'd rather gamble to find a Durant (MPJ).

I also don't see the same Hoford comparisons with Carter Jr. He's not nearly as atheltic as Horford is. I question his lateral quickness
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
Scoring points in an NBA game is the most important thing

But let's be honest, we would rather have a Kyrie Irving, Jaylen Brown, or Jayson Tatum type of offensive potential than Horford's overall potential.

You bring up the idea that a top 25 defender is more important than a top 25 scorer. You know what I bring to counter that point? Marcus Smart. In an ideal world, defense should be held to the value of offense, but it's not. It's the reason why offensive specialists like Curry, Kyrie, Lillard, Harden, and Cousins are all-stars, meanwhile defensive specialists aren't. Draymond is just as good on offense as he is defense.

So we do need a superstar. That's what this team needs to compete. Show me a team in the last decade that won without a superstar. You wouldn't find one. A guy like Horford might be a steal at #7(Carter Jr), but I'd rather gamble to find a Durant (MPJ).

I also don't see the same Hoford comparisons with Carter Jr. He's not nearly as atheltic as Horford is. I question his lateral quickness
We may already have a Kyrie Irving and Jaylen Brown. I don't know if Porter is the next Kevin Durant or if Carter is the next Al Horford, I'm just saying that there's more than one way to win. Shooting alone isn't necessarily the answer. What we need more than anything is a player who is equally capable on both ends of the floor. I'll pass on a guy with sky-high offensive potential who can't defend anybody for a competent scorer who can actively contribute to an above-average defense. Maybe Mo Bamba isn't the answer either, but I would be happy to see us taking some steps toward becoming a better defensive team.

And I will gladly take an Al Horford level defender at this point over a league MVP. I'm not even kidding! We just had one of the best scorers in the league (top 10 in each of his last 4 seasons in Sacramento) on our team and couldn't win squat even when we got him a Hall of Fame coach, another 20ppg scorer, and two very capable PGs. It's never going to happen for us until we address the defense. I've wanted Al Horford on this team for years because he's an elite defender. He could have been the missing piece that elevated one those Cousins' led teams to playoff level. This is more or less the same argument that came up in the Bamba thread about elite defensive players not being difference makers. The level of disrespect shown toward defense in general in the NBA never ceases to amaze me. The Spurs haven't been in the playoffs for 20 years running with 5 championships to show for their troubles because they were loaded with scoring talent. There's so much more going on than that.
 
We may already have a Kyrie Irving and Jaylen Brown. I don't know if Porter is the next Kevin Durant or if Carter is the next Al Horford, I'm just saying that there's more than one way to win. Shooting alone isn't necessarily the answer. What we need more than anything is a player who is equally capable on both ends of the floor. I'll pass on a guy with sky-high offensive potential who can't defend anybody for a competent scorer who can actively contribute to an above-average defense. Maybe Mo Bamba isn't the answer either, but I would be happy to see us taking some steps toward becoming a better defensive team.

And I will gladly take an Al Horford level defender at this point over a league MVP. I'm not even kidding! We just had one of the best scorers in the league (top 10 in each of his last 4 seasons in Sacramento) on our team and couldn't win squat even when we got him a Hall of Fame coach, another 20ppg scorer, and two very capable PGs. It's never going to happen for us until we address the defense. I've wanted Al Horford on this team for years because he's an elite defender. He could have been the missing piece that elevated one those Cousins' led teams to playoff level. This is more or less the same argument that came up in the Bamba thread about elite defensive players not being difference makers. The level of disrespect shown toward defense in general in the NBA never ceases to amaze me. The Spurs haven't been in the playoffs for 20 years running with 5 championships to show for their troubles because they were loaded with scoring talent. There's so much more going on than that.
I agree that we should be looking at drafting players that can contribute at both ends of the court, but you wouldn't pass up James Harden because he doesn't really play defense. Or at least I wouldn't because he's that special scorer and player to help carry your team to the next level. Obviously you would need to construct your roster and adjust your line ups accordingly to support that player's shortcomings on the defensive end, but that is possible as proven by Houston this season because they have improved defensively even though Harden is arguably still a liability.

Now I also agree that having a top ten scorer in Cousins didn't help us get out of our current rut, but was that because Cousins couldn't carry the team on his back like Harden did in Houston, or was it because our front office didn't get him enough good supporting players?

Sure Collison and IT were alright players, but they were pretty streaky. We never really solved the shooting guard problem. Rudy Gay is a strange one because both of the teams that traded him away got better after he left, but he was a capable second option scorer. We also never really solved the power forward position. So as far as I'm concerned the struggle to get out of mediocrity was down to a poorly constructed roster rather than Cousins' inability to carry this team and make it better.

So if we do get the opportunity to draft Michael Porter and he's potentially a 20+ a night guy with lackluster defense, then it might be worth taking a gamble on him and adjusting our roster accordingly to make up for his shortcomings at that end of the court. It's the same with Doncic. He is probably never going to be anything more than an average defensive player and he's likely someone that a team will have to swap defensive assignments with because he's not quick enough to cover certain players. But both players could be special offensively in the right situation, if supported in the right system.

With that said, I can understand the appeal of drafting a player like Mikal Bridges who should have a solid 3-and-D floor, with a fair amount of upside if he develops a wider offense skill set. He can slot into our line up and make an impact. Perhaps that grit and grind approach that the Grizzlies used for many years, and the strong defensive approach of the Spurs, could be the kind of team we want to be. But we can't afford to ignore the special offensive players if they fall to us in this year's draft because we don't rate their defense. That end can be helped by constructing your roster and adjusting your lineups and assignments accordingly. Whereas getting greater offense out of so-so players is far more difficult.
 
Ok, I was again listening to a cowbell kingdom podcast with Leo Bias. He had some guy, cant remember his name but he sounded sharp, on his show who has Zhaire Smith of Texas Tech in his top 6. Now Zhaire is pretty much a SG so not the highest priority here, but I like that he's taking a chance on such a player. He was not big on Mikal Bridges mostly because of his age and underdeveloped ball handling skills. It got me thinking, the 3 and D side of Mikals game sounds good but is a 4 year wing with subpar handles worth a top 7-8 pick.
Our likely draft range is beginning to concern me a bit, talent but a lot of question marks.
 
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The interesting thing about that Boston team is that their offense looked terrible against Philadelphia pretty much the whole game and they still won because their defense made a pretty solid Sixers team look even worse. If anything that team is an argument for how you can get away with a barely effective offense by being elite on the other end. Over the course of the season they ranked 1st in Defensive Rating and 18th in Offensive Rating. Oh and check this out, while they were only 10th in 3pt attempts per game they were 2nd only to the Warriors in percentage at 37.7% just ahead of (gasp) our lowly Kings who rounded out the top 3 at 37.5%. So while the rest of the league continues their 3pt shooting arms race Brad Stevens' Celtics suggest a different path forward: load up on talented swingmen who can smother other team's shooters and take just enough threes to keep yourself afloat by making the few you do take at an elite rate. We've already got one half of that equation down. Yeah our offense was ugly at times but so is Boston's. They're just better than us at everything else.

And on another related note, while Al Horford is certainly not a top 25 player offensively, when you factor in his versatility he's probably a top 25 individual defender which is arguably more important (and he's been too good for too long on that end to call him a product of Brad Stevens, though I will credit Stevens for knowing how to use him effectively).

But wait! (I hear you asking) how is a top 25 defender more important than a top 25 scorer?! Top 25 scorers are the category of player that wins all the awards after all. As I've noted in other threads, teams need at least one top tier scorer but they also need at least one top tier defender. Doesn't that make them (at best) equally important? Well yeah, all things being equal it does but impact scorers always seem to outnumber impact defenders about 3 to 1. I can think of two dozen guys in the same general ballpark as say Jrue Holiday on offense. I can think of maybe 8 who favorably compare to a Tony Allen level defender. As it happens, we've got 3 players who could potentially fill that scoring role in Fox, Hield, and Bogdanovic. Unless Giles is all kinds of amazing when he gets out there, it doesn't appear that we have that top tier defender yet. We can win with the scoring guards we have now if we manage to upgrade the defense into the elite tier and that might be a more attainable goal than hoping and praying a generational scoring talent somehow falls into our laps.

And lastly... a player on Al Horford's level would be an absolute steal at pick #7. Kyrie Irving, Jaylen Brown, Al Horford and Jayson Tatum were all top 3 picks. If we land a player as capable as any of them at #7 we're doing well. Forget about the "we need a superstar" idea, that went out the window with wins 22 through 27 I'm sorry to say. Unless we win the lottery and draft Luka. :)
This is why on draft night (acuire lots of swing men with elite defensive ability) i was an advocate of Isaac at 5 and Mitchell at 10. It was the defensive switchability i liked with enough upside on the offensive end to get the job done
 
Ok, I was again listening to a cowbell kingdom podcast with Leo Bias. He had some guy, cant remember his name but he sounded sharp, on his show who has Zhaire Smith of Texas Tech in his top 6. Now Zhaire is pretty much a SG so not the highest priority here, but I like that he's taking a chance on such a player. He was not big on Mikal Bridges mostly because of his age and underdeveloped ball handling skills. It got me thinking, the 3 and D side of Mikals game sounds good but is a 4 year wing with subpar handles worth a top 7-8 pick.
Our likely draft range is beginning to concern me a bit, talent but a lot of question marks.
You are a stronger man than I am
 
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