Which Kings players are the best defenders?

[HighFlyingMonkey]

McLemore is going to get more minutes than you have listed, and he's not going to get them at SF. He's only 6'4"and you would be doing him a disservice playing him there. Don't underestimate him, or McCallum. They have future plans for both players, and personally, I don't think they see Thornton as part of the long term future, and perhaps Vasquez as well. Vasquez might change their minds this season, but if not, I don't see them paying him big bucks to stay, especially if McCallum shows he can ball in the league.

I'm looking at the team as a ship on a shake down cruise. You take it to sea, and see what needs the most repair, and whats the most efficient way to fix it.

I wouldn't count on it unless there's a trade. McLemore seeing backup SF minutes is hardly ideal, but with Thornton being the better pure SG and a glut of guards, thats really the best way to give him minutes on the court. Now maybe Thornton or Vasquez is during the season, hopefully for a better SF which then we can have McLemore play his natural SG spot, but until that happens the best way to get him on the court is at backup SF.

 

[Bricklayer]

Guys, we did not bring in Vasquez to be a backup. He'll start at PG as designated offense runner/Cousins feeder and get 30+min.

And no, he can't defend quickness either.

 

[bajaden]

Guys, we did not bring in Vasquez to be a backup. He'll start at PG as designated offense runner/Cousins feeder and get 30+min.

And no, he can't defend quickness either.

To be fair to Vasquez, he was hampered by his ankle most of last season. I'm not saying that with a healthy ankle he'll suddenly be a great defender, but he should be better. I agree that in all likelyhood he'll be the starter, and frankly, I'm not one of those that believes everybody has to get their minutes. Figure out who the best starters are, and give them the bulk of the minutes, unless someone is just having a terrible night, which happens. However I'm very skeptical that Vasquez will be with us for more than this season. If I'm right, then that could affect how he's used and his minutes. We might see more of McCallum than most think. He has all the tools and could be a two way player. I know its just summer league, but I was very impressed with him and his on court composure. With Vasquez and IT both being restricted freeagents after this season, the choice may come down to just keeping one of them since McCallum will have one more year unguaranteed.

If Vasquez puts up guady assist numbers again this year, he's going to get some pretty good offers, good defense or not.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Guys, we did not bring in Vasquez to be a backup. He'll start at PG as designated offense runner/Cousins feeder and get 30+min.

And no, he can't defend quickness either.

I wouldn't count on it. The Vasquez acquisition seemed like we tried to get whatever value we could scrap from losing Tyreke rather than lose him for nothing.

 

[twslam07]

Defensively speaking, I think we're largely screwed.

Starting Mbah a Moute is a must if our backcourt is going to be Isaiah/Vasquez at PG and Thornton at SG. But that means that we need Patterson out there for floor spacing. While Patterson has a working knowledge of rotations, he gets bullied by bigger 4s like Randolph and Griffin. With Cousins as the starter at C, its going to take one miraculous scheme to be even average defensively.

Plus, because of our personnel, I feel like we're in for a long year of smallball. Just look at the possible minutes distribution:

C- Cousins 36, Thompson 12
PF- Patterson 20, Landry 25, Thompson 3
SF- Mbah a Moute 30, McLemore 18
SG - Thornton 35, McLemore 4, Vasquez- 9
PG - Isaiah - 32, Vasquez - 16

Riding the bench: Salmons, Outlaw, Hayes, Jimmer, McCallam

Totals:
Cousins: 36
Thornton: 35
Thomas: 32
Mbah a Moute: 30
Vasquez: 25
Landry: 25
McLemore: 22
Patterson: 20
Thompson: 15

Minutes distribution is going to be a nightmare. Thompson is better than a 15 mpg player, but can't play more because of fit (why did we sign Landry again?). Vasquez is probably better than 25 mpg but there's a massive guard logjam. And I just can't see them being a decent defensive team.

This is how I see the rotation working out (or at least how I would organize the rotation at this point).

PG - Vasquez (28 min)/Thomas (20 min)/McCallum (0 min)/Fredette (0 min)
SG - Thornton (30 min)/McLemore (18 min)
SF - Moute (34 min)/Salmons (14 min)/Outlaw (0 min)
PF - Patterson (20 min)/Landry (20 min)/Thompson (8 min)
C - Cousins (36 min)/Thompson (12 min)/Hayes (0 min)

Total Minutes:
Cousins (36 min)
Moute (34 min)
Thornton (30 min)
Vasquez (28 min)
Patterson (20 min)
Landry (20 min)
Thompson (20 min)
Thomas (20 min)
McLemore (18 min)
Salmons (14 min)

Yuck, what an ugly 10 man rotation. We really need to focus on quality not quantity.

 

[KingMilz]

I can't see Cousins playing 36mins per game the only bigmen that I can think off that play those kind of numbers are Noah and Dwight and both of them have insane motors (which I don't think Cousins naturally has which is fine cause he's a different type of player), max I see Cousins playing is like 33mpg. 90% of the big men Cousins size who can play go roughly between 29-32mpg.


Edit
Ok I just looked it up and there is 6 C's in the NBA that play over 33mins per game and Noah is the only one who is @36 so imo expecting Cousins to play that much is fairly hard for Cuz, to me 33mins would be optimum for him.

 

[Bricklayer]

I can't see Cousins playing 36mins per game the only bigmen that I can think off that play those kind of numbers are Noah and Dwight and both of them have insane motors (which I don't think Cousins naturally has which is fine cause he's a different type of player), max I see Cousins playing is like 33mpg. 90% of the big men Cousins size who can play go roughly between 29-32mpg.


Edit
Ok I just looked it up and there is 6 C's in the NBA that play over 33mins per game and Noah is the only one who is @36 so imo expecting Cousins to play that much is fairly hard for Cuz, to me 33mins would be optimum for him.

That says more about the current state of the center position than anything. But that's precisely where Cousins is supposed to represent a break. We maxed him out on the hope that he could be the next great center. A throwback to a better era. In 1995-96 for instance, David Robinson (36.8), Alonzo Mourning (38.2), Patrick Ewing (36.6), Hakeem Olajuwon (38.8), Shaquille O'Neal (36.0), Ditkembe Mutumbo (36.7) all averaged 36+ min a game. Dwight Howard has averaged 36+ min 5x in his career. It really is all about greatness. If a center is truly great, and you DON'T play him 36+ min you are crazy. A great center is the centerpiece of a whole team. Its just so rarely seen nowadays that its easy to forget.

 

[KingMilz]

That says more about the current state of the center position than anything. But that's precisely where Cousins is supposed to represent a break. We maxed him out on the hope that he could be the next great center. A throwback to a better era. In 1995-96 for instance, David Robinson (36.8), Alonzo Mourning (38.2), Patrick Ewing (36.6), Hakeem Olajuwon (38.8), Shaquille O'Neal (36.0), Ditkembe Mutumbo (36.7) all averaged 36+ min a game. Dwight Howard has averaged 36+ min 5x in his career. It really is all about greatness. If a center is truly great, and you DON'T play him 36+ min you are crazy. A great center is the centerpiece of a whole team. Its just so rarely seen nowadays that its easy to forget.

I agree but I think it would be a lot to ask of Cousins to get from playing 30min per game to 36mpg (with improved defensive effort) in the space of one season. Imo in a year after this one coming up sure but that's a massive jump if he's capable and won't burn out to much I'm all for it but I think they should do it a bit more gradually. If he can comfortable go 33-34mpg than we can talk 34+mpg, I first want to see how he goes playing BOTH ends for more than 30mins.

 

[Bricklayer]

I agree but I think it would be a lot to ask of Cousins to get from playing 30min per game to 36mpg (with improved defensive effort) in the space of one season. Imo in a year after this one coming up sure but that's a massive jump if he's capable and won't burn out to much I'm all for it but I think they should do it a bit more gradually. If he can comfortable go 33-34mpg than we can talk 34+mpg, I first want to see how he goes playing BOTH ends for more than 30mins.

Oh, I think fouls alone will keep him under 35, especially if Malone actually has to learn firsthand that Cousins is not a rim protector. But there is no issue with playing an elite big man 36+ min...except that there virtually are no elite big men to earn those kinds of minutes.

 

[blackice]

Well I'd say it would come down to Chuck and Luc, I haven't watched many Milwaukee games in the past but the guy does his homework so he has that going for him. He also last season added more bulk so he can guard the bigger forwards and while that may of slowed him down a bit...he is sound defensively. I'm anxious to see how he incorporates with Malone's system and how he will utilize his players to the best of their abilities. I also would love to see how Ray defends, he seems like a very hard working kid so I can't speak on his defensive ability but with that athleticism and IQ, I'm sure he is more than one of the capable ones on the roster even as a rook.

 

[jalfa]

The Kings are worst defensive team in NBA, by all stats and measures. Here's individual grades on D-end as I see it - with hope for Malone system improvement this season:

Thomas C-
Vasquez C
Thornton C-
Fredette D
Salmons B
McLemore INC
McCollum INC
Cousins C-
Hayes B
Thompson C
Patterson C+
Landry C+
Mbah a Moute A-
Outlaw D

while I pretty much agree with the relations between players in your ranking, they should probably all get a grade worse than what you gave them. remember, last year the Kings had the second worst defense in the league. that's very clearly F-territory.