Where does Peja rank amongst fellow foreign NBA players?

outsider62 said:
1. I didn't comment Peja against Manu comparison.
2. You are too hard on him.
3. Examples were given in the meantime about elimination game performance. We didn't win these games, but Peja delivered. Was defeat his fault?
4. Don't you think you add the fuel to unbalanced discussion with such comments?
5. I would respect you even more if you explicitly said that you were wrong before replacing original claim with new one.
1. Nobody's stopping you.
2. Your opinion.
3. Defeat may not have been his fault, but it's a pretty good indication that he wasn't able to carry his team to victory.
4. No.
5. Not that I'm particularly concerned with whether or not you respect me, but wrong about what?
 
Hmm... I haven't seen a thread like this since Webb left. But I'll wade into the fray. AK-47 has to stay healthy and prove he can produce all season long and into the postseason(if he can lead his team there) before I would say he's actually better, but don't get me wrong it's real close. Manu and Dirk I would give the nod to, on post-season clutchness alone(nothing is more valueable), but also just on overall impact to the game. As far as Gasol, who behind closed doors is refered to as the softest player in the NBA. I mean come on... when it comes to heart, Gasol makes Peja look like Mike bibby. Is Nash a true foriegn player? I dunno... but if he is I'd rank Peja 4th, if he isn't I'd rank him 3rd.
 
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KP said:
Hmm... I haven't seen a thread like this since Webb left. But I'll wade into the fray. AK-47 has to stay healthy and prove he can produce all season long and into the postseason(if he can lead his team there) before I would say he's actually better, but don't get me wrong it's real close. Manu and Dirk I would give the nod to, on post-season clutchness alone(nothing is more valueable), but also just on overall impact to the game. As far as Gasol, who behind closed doors is refered to as the softest player in the NBA. I mean come on... when it comes to heart, Gasol makes Peja look like Mike bibby. Is Nash a true foriegn player? I dunno... but if he is I'd rank Peja 4th, if he isn't I'd rank him 3rd.

my thoughts exactly.

WOW we finally aggree on things. I thought this day would never come. ;) :p :D
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
He was born in South Africa, and raised in Canada... sounds pretty foreign to me...

Same thing could be said for Hakeem and Duncan the thing is Nash's (like Tim and Hakeem) game is a product of the U.S..
 
The same cannot be said for Duncan. He was raised in the U.S. Virgin Islands; he was born an American citizen, ie, not foreign.

And if you *do* want to count him, that drops Stojakovic to sixth, in my opinion.
 
AleksandarN said:
WOW we finally aggree on things. I thought this day would never come. ;) :p :D
LOL. I also find it really ironic that those previously mentioned Webber threads is where we had our greatest battles. Oh well the times are certainly changing.
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KP said:
LOL. I also find it really ironic that those previously mentioned Webber threads is where we had our greatest battles. Oh well the times are certainly changing.
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Hey I was never against Webber I think our battles were ones that involved Kobe
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
1. Nobody's stopping you.
2. Your opinion.
3. Defeat may not have been his fault, but it's a pretty good indication that he wasn't able to carry his team to victory.
4. No.
5. Not that I'm particularly concerned with whether or not you respect me, but wrong about what?
1. Whatever.
2. Fact. Because of 4.
3. You are wrong about that, our discussion proves that. You, Brick and VF21 are complaining about exteme approach by "other side" and you are not willing to admit that you are fueling such discussion.
4. "Next time Peja impacts important game will be the first."
 
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outsider62 said:
1. Whatever.
2. Fact. Because of 4.
3. You are wrong about that, our discussion proves that. You, Brick and VF21 are complaining about exteme approach by "other side" and you are not willing to admit that you are fueling such discussion.
4. "Next time Peja impacts important game will be the first."
1. Don't "whatever" me; YOU brought it up... what do I care that you weren't comparing Stojakovic and Ginobili? I wasn't talking to you in the first place, so why did you bother to point it out?
2. No, it's your opinion. And no matter how many other people share your opinion, it's still an opinion. The claim that I'm being too hard on Stojakovic can never be confirmed as fact; it's a subjective claim.
3. That isn't wrong; if you put up numbers, and your team doesn't win, then you didn't lead your team to a win. It's pretty much black and white; you can make the argument that it's unfair, but not that it's wrong. And I'll thank you to stop mischaracterizing my comments; I did not say anything about the "other side." I may have quoted something that VF21 said, but don't make the mistake of misinterpreting that as meaning that I form my opinions to be contrarian. I don't let other people influence my opinions, so don't attribute what somebody else said to me.
4. You still haven't proven that statement wrong; you've just cited losses where Stojakovic put up some pretty numbers. Putting up big numbers in a loss is not "making an impact." It's just empty numbers.
 
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Mr. S£im Citrus said:
1. Don't "whatever" me; YOU brought it up... what do I care that you weren't comparing Stojakovic and Ginobili? I wasn't talking to you in the first place, so why did you bother to point it out?
2. No, it's your opinion. And no matter how many other people share your opinion, it's still an opinion. The claim that I'm being too hard on Stojakovic can never be confirmed as fact; it's a subjective claim.
3. That isn't wrong; if you put up numbers, and your team doesn't win, then you didn't lead your team to a win. It's pretty much black and white; you can make the argument that it's unfair, but not that it's wrong. And I'll thank you to stop mischaracterizing my comments; I did not say anything about the "other side," and I couldn't care less about the "other side." I don't let other people influence my opinions, so don't attribute what somebody else said to me.
4. You still haven't proven that statement wrong; you've just cited losses where Stojakovic put up some pretty numbers. Putting up big numbers in a loss is not "making an impact." It's just empty numbers.
1. I haven't brought it up, it was you. You mentioned that responding to me.
2. You made an false statetment to put him down.
3. So you blame the best player on the floor for team loss. How logical.
4. I didn't cited losses, I talked about Sac Kings first PO win. Your statetment was not vague you said "never" but I gave you example you were wrong.
 
outsider62 said:
1. I haven't brought it up, it was you. You mentioned that responding to me.
2. You made an false statetment to put him down.
3. So you blame the best player on the floor for team loss. How logical.
4. I didn't cited losses, I talked about Sac Kings first PO win. Your statetment was not vague you said "never" but I gave you example you were wrong.
1. You still don't get it; I "brought it up" before you even began to participate in this thread. I wasn't talking to you about Ginobili in the first place. Your remark that you weren't talking about Ginobili is a null statement because I wasn't talking to you about him. I was talking to someone else, and you just came out of left field to point out that you didn't comment on the comparison, as though I had asked you to comment about it to begin with.
2. No I didn't.
3. It is logical. In fact, it's basic boolean logic: he either led the team to a win, or he didn't. And he didn't. I didn't make anything more or less out of it; you did.
4. No, you didn't cite Game 4 of the 2001 WCQF specifically; you said that he led the team to a win in the series, and I dispute that. As I've already stated, the guy who puts up 20/10/2/2/1 does more to "lead" his team than the guy who puts up 23/7/0/1/0. Just because you had the most points doesn't mean that you led your team, especially when you only averaged a few more points than the guy who had superior overall numbers; 20/10/2 >>>> 23/7/0.

I wasn't wrong. I said that he hasn't made an impact in a relevant game, and by my definition of a "relevant" game, which I already explained, he hasn't. The best argument that you can make with respect to that is that we have different standards for what a "relevant" game is.
 
loopymitch said:
it's interesting that the threads about peja always seem to be the most heated, and so it continues..

Well, at least we're not bored...

I understand that some people want us all to be more lenient with Peja. They think we (generally meaning me and a few others) are too critical of him, that we don't give him enough credit.

My opinion of Peja is that he is a naturally-talented shooter who is being paid a LOT of money to play a game. He doesn't play it from the heart; he doesn't have the hunger or competitive spirit that I really like to see in athletes in any sport.

For the past several years, there have been people who came to the board and told us to just wait. That "next year" would be the year when Peja stepped up and really did it all. Really got the job done AND became the uberathlete they swore was inside him.

It hasn't happened. I seriously doubt if it ever will happen.

Peja has said - at various times - that he doesn't do basketball at home. That is his quote; not mine. That bothered me because I want to think the guy who is the starting SF for my favorite team would at least watch a few game tapes, etc. over the summer or do something...

The argument will continue for as long as Peja wears the uniform of the Kings and most likely even longer if he's traded away.

At some point, you just get tired of hitting your head over the SAME issues time after time after time.

There is an underlying theme here: "Why isn't ____________ (fill in name of King) being subjected to the same kind of criticism?"

The answer? I don't know. Maybe it's because no other King has the wide spectrum of followers Peja has.

People need, IMHO, to remember that when it comes time to stand up and cheer, most of us are still cheering for Peja. We don't hate him; we certainly don't boo him when he steps on the court or makes an ill-advised shot. We just aren't so enamored of him that we feel he's exempt from criticism or comment when he is being discussed.
 
outsider62 said:
3. You are wrong about that, our discussion proves that. You, Brick and VF21 are complaining about exteme approach by "other side" and you are not willing to admit that you are fueling such discussion.

No, I wasn't complaining about the extreme approach by some mystical "other side." I was saying that there are a FEW people who have posted on this forum in the past - and I am not necessarily saying any of them are active in this thread, Sasha - who, because of their extreme homerism and blindness about all things Peja, led some of us to making more critical comments about Peja than we otherwise might have made. I never said, AFAIR, they were not true statements or valid comments/complaints.

One of the problems is that it apparently has to be one way or the other. If I criticize Peja, I have to be a "hater." If I say something positive, then I'm being "inconsistent."

Peja is a paradox and thoughts/feelings about him go all over the map, especially from long-time Kings fans who have ridden the whole Peja roller coaster ride.

He wears the uniform of the Sacramento Kings. That's the bottom line as far as I'm concerned. As long as he wears the uniform, I'll be cheering for him even if I no longer expect as much from him as I once did.

If that's not acceptible to you, I'm sorry - but that's the way it is.
 
Well put VF21. I really like the guy and based on one of the articles I posted today he has added to his skills a bit this offseason, but I just don't expect him to be the All-Star he looked like while Webber was down and he was really helping to carry this team. I wish to God he could return to that form, and maybe he will, but he doesn't seem to have it in him over the last year or so. We could use him picking up his defensive intensity and helping more on the boards....

I have the feeling he'll want a max contract and, based on his performance over the last year or so, he will be asking too much. If he keeps adding to his game I'd love to keep him here for life, but I think the price may be too high, unfortunately.
 
I'll never understand how it is that some people have convinced themselves that I hate Stojakovic, just because I have the temerity to say that he: 1) isn't a true superstar, 2) doesn't deserve a max contract, and 3) isn't one of the 3-4 best International players in the NBA. It's not like I've ever said the guy sucks, or anything; it's not like I've ever said that I'm rooting for him to fail... It's like, to some people, if you don't think the guy is the greatest thing since sliced bread, you're a "hater." :rolleyes:
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
It's like, to some people, if you don't think the guy is the greatest thing since sliced bread, you're a "hater." :rolleyes:

I personally don't see the big deal about sliced bread.
1. The slices are all the same size, which is way too conformist.
2. The slices are too thin, and if your butter is a little too cold, the bread tears.
3. The slices at the end are sometimes way too thin, leading to the inability to use the entire loaf.
4. On a related note, I HATE the double wrapping. The interior cellophane wrapping is very hard to open without tearing it to shreds.
 
The Harvest Grain stuff, like 12-grain. It has the outer wrapping as always, but it also has an interior freshness protector lining or something that I swear is shrink-wrapped or something. It's almost impossible to get open... I usually get angry, rip it to shreds and then worry about the bread going stale. At $3+ loaf, that's more of a concern than it used to be.
 
Yep. You remove the annoying little plastic clasp, fully expecting to be able to reach in and grab a couple of pieces of bread with which to begin the assembly of your perfect sandwich.

But, lo and behold, your sandwich plans are thwarted because you CANNOT simply grasp and remove the slices of bread. Nooooooooooooooooooo.

You have facing before you one of mankind's most evil and diabolical contrivances - the hermetically sealed shrink-wrapped inner liner!

It was obviously created by the same genius who came up with the packaging for CDs and is just as nefarious.

As your stomach rumbles and you feel your blood pressure rising, you attempt to carefully open the liner, with the thought in mind that you'll be able to do so with a minimum effort, then enabling you to close the liner and retain optimum bread freshness for the maximum period of time.

Does this happen? NOooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Eventually, with the veins on your head throbbling and your hands shaking, you are forced to admit defeat. You reach into the drawer and grab a sharp knife. Stabbing at the offending liner, you finally get it open - inevitably shredding at least one piece of bread and possibly its neighbor as well. (We won't even go into the possibility of you missing the bread entirely and, instead, skewering your own finger like a Thanksgiving turkey.)

By this time, your nerves are shattered, your stomach is churning, your palms are clammy and sweating.

But - damnit! - you're gonna make that sandwich. No mere loaf of bread is going to keep you from your original goal.

So, after successfully (yeah, right) defeating the liner from hell, you reach into the refrigerator to get your favorite package of lunch meat.

Now do you really want to hear about my problems with how most lunch meat is packaged???

;)
 
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VF21 said:
The Harvest Grain stuff, like 12-grain. It has the outer wrapping as always, but it also has an interior freshness protector lining or something that I swear is shrink-wrapped or something. It's almost impossible to get open... I usually get angry, rip it to shreds and then worry about the bread going stale. At $3+ loaf, that's more of a concern than it used to be.

I was wondering if I was the only one who thought the inner lining was a waste of time and money.... :mad:
 
Nope. Just talking about bread here. Talkin' about bread ... and wrappers.
 
Nikos said:
Out of curiosity I was wondering how Peja would rank with other foreign NBA talents in the NBA today? (Not including Nash).

Dirk, Ming, Gasol, Kirlenko, Ginobili, Parker, Illgauskas, Radmonovic, Jaric etc....?

Is he still the second best International player behind Dirk? Is it close? Is he on the same tier more or less than most of the best international players not named Dirk?

Where does Peja rank and why?

Thanks

Knowing what we know today, I'd first draft the following in order:

Yao - lack of decent centers
Nowitzki - size, versatility
Kirilenko - defense
Ginobili - all around game

I'd take Peja over Gasol (who's soft) and Parker simply because I don't like short, inconsistent points no matter how quick.
 
Gargamel - I cannot believe you went all the way back to the first post in the thread to comment.

;)

Dude, that is like so yesterday!

We're talkin' about bread, man. We're talkin' about bread.

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