What will it take...

For these guys to just commit to defense? Is it a mindset? A coaching philosophy?

I see some good individual defenders in Reke and Donte I just wish this team as a whole could adapt a straight killer defensive mentality.

That 4th quarter was great defense it was just a shame it was too little too late id just love to see these guys mature together and develop that defense leads to offense mind set one day.
 
In the game they were actually talking about how great offense leads to better defense since it gives them time to get back to their positions so i think that is more important.
 
In the 4th we actually had some guys out there who cared and the D got better immediately. Dorsey needs to play while Brockman is out, he gives some intensity out there:eek:. Cisco also. We really need a few James Posey types of players though, guys who can lockdown on D and who can hit open shots.
 
For these guys to just commit to defense? Is it a mindset? A coaching philosophy?

I see some good individual defenders in Reke and Donte I just wish this team as a whole could adapt a straight killer defensive mentality.

That 4th quarter was great defense it was just a shame it was too little too late id just love to see these guys mature together and develop that defense leads to offense mind set one day.

Time.

Most young teams (even ones older than ours) struggle with defense, playing on the road and finishing close games. The 1999-2001 versions of our Kings had the same problems and slowly progressed.

Our rotation players right now are 20-26 and many of the younger ones are showing fatigue. This is to be expected. As long as the effort is there, we should be happy for the time being. We should expect to see improvement next season though.
 
In the 4th we actually had some guys out there who cared and the D got better immediately. Dorsey needs to play while Brockman is out, he gives some intensity out there:eek:. Cisco also. We really need a few James Posey types of players though, guys who can lockdown on D and who can hit open shots.

I think a healthy Garcia is relatively comparable to James Posey. He just needs to get back into the flow.
 
Yeah I did notice that the lineup of Evans, Garcia, Casspi, Landry and Dorsey got some stops. I honestly like that lineup since it's well rounded with shooting(Garcia/Casspi), Playmaking(Tyreke), Midrange/Postup Game(Landry) and a garbage man. Then you can toss Donte in there as well for more size and athleticism.

I mean even our lack of size can be made up for if these guys would care about making it hard to get to the rim. Tyreke does a great job defending his assignment, Garcia can when healthy and I know Casspi has it in him as well.

Basically my point is we have alot of guys who seem to have it in them to be great individual defenders, I just hope that somehow someway they can become a great defensive team.
 
I know that we all want great individual defenders at every position. Not going to happen. Decent to good defenders maybe, but not great at every position. And if we did, our offnese would probably suck because its difficult to find great defenders that are also good offensive players. Most good teams will have only one or two of those in their lineup.

Our problem is team defense. Poor rotations, or lack of rotation. Next time you watch a game, and if you have a DVR, and you see someone from the opposing team wide open for a shot, play it back. Almost every time you'll see two Kings rotating with the same player. Or one rotating and the other looking lost as to where to go.

Now every team is going to have some confusion on rotations from time to time. But the Kings are making a science out of it. When watching, I honestly don't know where to point the finger because I don't know their defensive scheme. But I certainly know that you don't want two players guarding one player that doesn't even have the ball.

Now if I could say that it only happens when Thompson, or Nocioni, or Hawes, or whomever is involved everytime there's confusion, then I might be able to lay some blame. But this desease appears to be contagious to everyone on the team at times. So this isn't about having great individual defenders as much as its about a total breakdown of team defense.

So ask yourself where confusion comes from. What makes up a good well oiled machine. First off, all the parts have to fit properly. Secondly, with a new machine, you have to break it in properly. Let all the rough edges get worn off so it runs smoother. Its sort of like letting them all get to know each other. The better they know each other, the smoother the whole machine runs.

There's a lack of cohesion on offense. But there's an even bigger lack of cohesion on defense. There's a saying in mexico. Look good, but no work. Thats what we have on defense. They look like they're out there busting their butts. Unfortunately with little result. There's a saying thats been playing on the radio. " You don't become an expert by doing 4000 things 12 times. You become an expert by doing 12 things 4000 times.

When you do the former, it looks fresh and new, and promising. And if your lucky, it may even work for one night. But its built on a paper foundation and will eventually fail. When you do the latter, its slower and sometimes painful and may not work at all for a while. But your putting a solid foundation into place off of which your can continue to build. Right now this team is doing the former. It can look good, but it doesn't work!
 
Yeah it definately doesn't work right now, but looking at luckily we have a guy like Tyreke who shows the signs of being a defensive stopper. I notice most times when a guard is going off for a quick run of points, Reke steps in and makes him sweat out his next 2 points if he gets them:).

I know a lot of it is scheme and such its gonna take a lot of time for the team defense to gel, I just hope that when they gel defensively they stick to it because it'll make our rebuild come along a lot faster.
 
I think we got some good defensive player..usually tough guys are good at it.

Once the dust settled it may be clearer who are our core players that we will live and die with then we can start doing things 4000 times.
 
Problem is, they just aren't that good.
We don't have that anchor on defense to get the rest of the team in line.
The answer is not on this team, we need to go out and get a true post defender.
 
The lack of a defensive big is a problem, but im sure if the guys learn to get better on the rotations and scheme that could be less of an issue. I know the presence of a 7fter back there who would atleast deter some of these players from running layup lines around us.

Like right now even Hasseem Thabeet would get brought here or even a guy with potential to block shots like Sean Williams, we'd still be getting lit up by offensively challenged squads.
 
To answer the question posed by the OP, there are two problems hindering the development of good defense:

1. "confusion"
2. "just aren't that good..."

The new guys on the team will, unfortunately, quickly learn that if they get out there and play defense they're just gonna look silly with their arms in the air and all that stuff. At least that's how it seems. Much like Arco seems to accentuate the possibility of injury, it also apparently contains some kind of defensive black hole, wherein any kind of defensive acumen is quickly sucked away and lost forever in the vortex.
 
1) a lane clogger inside. It cannot be overstated how enormous a difference that makes, both directly, and in ease of scheming defensively and confidence of teammates in their defense

2) a defensive captain emerging or being acquired

3) time. Not only is the team young in age, its young in time playing together.
 
Rotations have been one of the biggest problems, we are leaving the most dangerous guys the other team has to double on someone else and no one gets back so they get wide open shots.

Big men too, they come out to the perimeter to double on the guard and they stay out there a second or two too long and the guy they should be guarding is under the basket for a layup or they get free throws.
 
1) a lane clogger inside. It cannot be overstated how enormous a difference that makes, both directly, and in ease of scheming defensively and confidence of teammates in their defense

2) a defensive captain emerging or being acquired

3) time. Not only is the team young in age, its young in time playing together.

While those are perfectly logical and probably accurate answers, after sitting through every single moment of last night's game (even though the weather outside Arco could easily have been an excuse to leave early to try and get back home ahead of the snow), I'm more and more tempted to just blame the Arco curse. Somehow, I can accept that more easily and then be pleasantly and joyfully surprised IF your points (once come to fruition) actually make a difference. Until then, it's back to the purple slippers, moving all the bobbleheads to different positions after each loss, and the ever-growing list of superstitions I've developed over the years to cope.

:)
 
1) a lane clogger inside. It cannot be overstated how enormous a difference that makes, both directly, and in ease of scheming defensively and confidence of teammates in their defense

2) a defensive captain emerging or being acquired

3) time. Not only is the team young in age, its young in time playing together.

We can't do much about number 1 in the short term, but maybe through the draft or an offseason aqquisition. Our capt. may already be there in Evans. I think he's the most likely. Now number 3 we can do something about. Which I already stated. It will take time, but we certainly have enough athletes that also have offensive skills to become at least a decent defensive team.

Last night I saw Nocioni blow at least rotation. I saw Thompson blow one, I saw Greene blow two. I saw Casspi blow one. Now I'm going with the obvious here in my observation. By that I mean if Thompson is guarding the other teams PF, and Casspi gets caught in a switch and is now guarding the other teams pt guard, and that guard runs the pick and roll and Thompson stays with the other teams PF, I don't think Casspi should also be guarding the other teams PF and leaving the pt guard open.

There's simply too much confusion on their switches and rotations. I'm a firm believer that the more the same players play together, the less confusion there will be.
 
They play virtually zero defense these days as teams are scoring as many as 40 points in a quarter and shooting 60 percent in some instances. That's just plain embarrassing. Kings go on a 10-0 run and then allow the opponent to respond with a 23-4 run enroute to a 25 point victory. Defense plays no part in recent games. Lack of defense does.
Beno and Omri have been defensive liabilities of late, but others have their nights only too often. Our bigs aren't great defenders or rebounders so the opponent is allowed too many second-chance point opportunities.
Since the Kings are at or near the bottom of all defensive categories (except perhaps steals), there's a mountain of work to do.
Petrie has a lot of work to do in the offseason. I'm think there will be some significant trades in our future for good shooters and great defenders.
 
I'm a firm believer that the more the same players play together, the less confusion there will be.

I tend to agree with this statement, but not sure some of the players will ever by dedicated to playing good defense or have the physical skills to stay in front of their man. Westphal will have make those determinations for next season's roster.
 
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