What we see is what we get...Roster set?

[Smills91]

As much as I would like to see a deal happen, I just don't think we'll see a deal go down before training camp.

I think Petrie at this point has exhausted the trade channels concerning Bibby/Artest and has found nothing even close to equitable value for either player.

So why deal now, when you can have the leverage in Jan/Feb?

I think our roster is pretty much set right now.

Line-up will look like this...?

C: Brad Miller
PF: Kenny Thomas
SF: Ron Artest
SG: Kevin Martin
PG: Mike Bibby

Bench:
6th: John Salmons
7th: Shareef Abdur-Rahim
8th: Francisco Garcia
9th: Mikki Moore
10th: Spencer Hawes
11th: Quincy Douby
12th: Justin Williams
IL1: Mustafa Shakur (D-League)
IL2: Daryl Watkins(D-League)
IL3: Oriene Greene/Caner-Medley(or other camp invitee) (Street Clothes)

That's kinda how I see it playing out at least through the first 2-3 months of the season...evaluate from there...if it's good, we may stand pat, or make a minor tweak to add another dimension to the team.

If it goes bad, THEN I can see Bibby perhaps going to Miami/Cleveland/LAL for a decent return near the deadline

AND/OR

then see Artest go to Miami/NY/LAL for a decent return near the deadline.

I'd hope we'd see Kenny attached to either one in that case. But I have him starting to hopefully SHOWCASE him in a system that's more accomodating to his game(up-tempo, hopefully) and that perhaps we could deal him to a team in need of a PF on his own merit: LAC/Nets/Rockets all come to mind right away.

I truly do beleive that Brad Miller will bounce back and play at a rate like he did during Adelman...in which case he's either A) Valuable to our team, B) Could be sent packing to a team like Orlando/San Antonio/LAL/Indiana.

I just think Petrie has realized that the options aren't there RIGHT now, but if he waits even 4-6 months from now, the options are more than likely to open up one way or another.

 

[Jespher]

I'd be worried that with Kenny, there would do nothing to showcase, and you'd hurt his already pitiful trade value even more if he was your inept starting power forward for another season. Let Justin Williams start there, so we can really shake things up coach Theus! Please!

Here's hoping that Francisco Garcia and Spencer Hawes are 1 and 2 off the bench instead of Salmons and Shareef. Please play the energetic young guys...please!

 

[dude12]

KT will not start. I do believe that Moore will start with Miller on the frontline and we'll see a combination of Hawes, Reef and J Williams as the backups. Douby, Cisco and Salmons will be the other backups getting time.

 

[Gary]

Ugh.. What I see is a bunch of useless vets taking time away from our youngsters... That is what's killing me..

 

[Bricklayer]

Still a month to go. That's me being an optimist.

As is we coiuld easily start the season in the absolute worst of all postures -- old vets who you either play to raise their value, thus squishing the kids behind them, or bench and then can never move until their contracts run out sometime next decade.

Where's Danny Ainge for GM when you need him?

 

[Smills91]

Still a month to go. That's me being an optimist.

As is we coiuld easily start the season in the absolute worst of all postures -- old vets who you either play to raise their value, thus squishing the kids behind them, or bench and then can never move until their contracts run out sometime next decade.

Where's Danny Ainge for GM when you need him?

Talk about oxymoronic!

 

[Bricklayer]

Talk about oxymoronic!

I've mentioned before that I have overestimated the Kings season total of victories for each of the last three seasons. Apparently I am a chronic optimist.

And despite all appearances, despite the fact that at this point if I bought the Kings tommorow Geoff's *** would be out on the street before I even located the coffee machine, I am still going to hold the door open for him for one more month. No quit in this dog.

 

[rhythmless]

i might be wrong, but this is a little deja vu in nature, no? i remember this being the gameplan last offseason. wish there was some movement in the waters....

 

[LPKingsFan]

I think Petrie at this point has exhausted the trade channels concerning Bibby/Artest and has found nothing even close to equitable value for either player.

So why deal now, when you can have the leverage in Jan/Feb?

I definitely could see a Bibby deal to Cleveland or Miami midseason if/when Boston or another East contender gets off to a hot start and its competitors look to make more moves. Plus Bibby will probably have a better year than last, so his value will likely go up from this summer. So yeah, hold on to him for now, hope he has a good first month, hope some teams underachieve, and try to sell high.

Artest, however, is another story. His looming free agency, and his talk about going back home, NY, Indiana, etc, all means that his value will get WORSE, not better, as next summer approaches. If you're going to move Ron, the time is now, not later.

 

[Gary]

There comes a point when you ask yourself if Moving Bibby, or Artest for a bit "less" than their "alleged" value is the smart thing to do at this point.

Seriously, for Bibby I would take a 10-15 1st round pick, and a Vet w/ an expiring contract ni the next year..

 

[dude12]

Something else to think about is the moving of Miller after a month or so. He's going to have to re-establish the fact that he can play at a higher level. His contract is movable and if he starts off the year playing well, he could help a veteran team. I know fans would like to see KT and/or Reef moved but, those guys are tough to move....limited value. Miller on the other hand would fit in well with many teams, assuming he's playing well. Moving him would free up time for the younger players.

 

[Kingster]

As much as I would like to see a deal happen, I just don't think we'll see a deal go down before training camp.

I think Petrie at this point has exhausted the trade channels concerning Bibby/Artest and has found nothing even close to equitable value for either player.

So why deal now, when you can have the leverage in Jan/Feb?

I think our roster is pretty much set right now.

Line-up will look like this...?

C: Brad Miller
PF: Kenny Thomas
SF: Ron Artest
SG: Kevin Martin
PG: Mike Bibby

Bench:
6th: John Salmons
7th: Shareef Abdur-Rahim
8th: Francisco Garcia
9th: Mikki Moore
10th: Spencer Hawes
11th: Quincy Douby
12th: Justin Williams
IL1: Mustafa Shakur (D-League)
IL2: Daryl Watkins(D-League)
IL3: Oriene Greene/Caner-Medley(or other camp invitee) (Street Clothes)

That's kinda how I see it playing out at least through the first 2-3 months of the season...evaluate from there...if it's good, we may stand pat, or make a minor tweak to add another dimension to the team.

If it goes bad, THEN I can see Bibby perhaps going to Miami/Cleveland/LAL for a decent return near the deadline

AND/OR

then see Artest go to Miami/NY/LAL for a decent return near the deadline.

I'd hope we'd see Kenny attached to either one in that case. But I have him starting to hopefully SHOWCASE him in a system that's more accomodating to his game(up-tempo, hopefully) and that perhaps we could deal him to a team in need of a PF on his own merit: LAC/Nets/Rockets all come to mind right away.

I truly do beleive that Brad Miller will bounce back and play at a rate like he did during Adelman...in which case he's either A) Valuable to our team, B) Could be sent packing to a team like Orlando/San Antonio/LAL/Indiana.

I just think Petrie has realized that the options aren't there RIGHT now, but if he waits even 4-6 months from now, the options are more than likely to open up one way or another.

That is just way too depressing. And to think I watch sports for enjoyment! I continue to see the worst possible chemistry imaginable. I coudn't dream up a worse concoction. It's not just bad psychological chemistry - ala Bibby & Artest, Reef and Thomas, it's terrible on-court chemistry, with the weaknesses of some players not being offset by the strengths of others; the conflict of playing a vet to showcase him instead of playing a youngin to improve his skills; and a schism between athletic and unathletic players. And overall still a terrible rebounding team. YUCK! Like I've said before, if Theus gets 40 wins out of this team, he should be Coach of the Year, hands down.

 

[Bricklayer]

40 wins is all too possible unfortunately, without anybody being coach of the year. And that's just a disaster. Eternal sunshine pie in the sky deluded optimist I may be, but at this point we are spun around so that hoping for 30 wins is the optimist. Expecting 35-40 the realist/pessimist.

 

[HndsmCelt]

As the kid who had to move Sardine sandwitches and butterscotch pudding cups lunch after lunch all through grade school I think I may have a unique insight into Petrie's problems. Once we asume that Martin is off the table then the remaining pieces the Kings have to trade are not very attractive (or else we would not wnat to trade them so bad) Bibby could be attractive to a team looking for a vet PG who can score, but his contract is huge, he does not defend and he is now prety much at his peek in a field of PG's many of which are emerging forces. Also trading Bibbby only frees up capspace, leaving a nice big hole in the roster. Miller's value may be at an all time low after last season and ONLY a team that wnats to run slow version of the Triamangel or the Prinction offense would have any use for him. IF he can put up big numbers again he MIGHT be attractive. Kenny- nufff said. Reef- aging PF with a low contract. Will not free up much money but will make room for young players. So any deal involving Reef really needs to be for enders or picks. Artest is a wild card and could be moved but we can't expect much in return. That leaves Salmons on the kids. Not sure if Salmons has much trade value either given the pointless inflated contract GP gave him last season.

So how do you trade a Sardine sandwitch and a butterscotch pudding cup? You wait untill lunch has started and look for the kid who is still hungry. You are not going to get ding-dongs and PBJ back bu you can somtimes get a milk and plain chips.

 

[Superman]

If the Lakers wind up getting Jermaine O'Neal, wouldn't they then be more interested in Brad Miller? He would fit quite nicely in that offense, and playing aside JO on defense would somewhat hide his deficiencies.

Miller for Brown works straight up, and Kwame comes off the books after this season...

 

[Kingster]

40 wins is all too possible unfortunately, without anybody being coach of the year. And that's just a disaster. Eternal sunshine pie in the sky deluded optimist I may be, but at this point we are spun around so that hoping for 30 wins is the optimist. Expecting 35-40 the realist/pessimist.

Well, with losses and wosses, and wins and lins, I guess I'm being an "optimist" in believing that this team is going to suck. You, on the other hand, are being way too "pessimistic". Welcome to Alice in Wonderland's world...

 

[Bricklayer]

As the kid who had to move Sardine sandwitches and butterscotch pudding cups lunch after lunch all through grade school

Your mom was just plain mean.

P.S. they had pudding cups that far back?

 

[Vlade4GM]

I've mentioned before that I have overestimated the Kings season total of victories for each of the last three seasons. Apparently I am a chronic optimist.

And despite all appearances, despite the fact that at this point if I bought the Kings tommorow Geoff's *** would be out on the street before I even located the coffee machine, I am still going to hold the door open for him for one more month. No quit in this dog.

Have you accumulated the funds to buy the team yet? I can chip in about a buck fifty

 

[HndsmCelt]

Your mom was just plain mean.

P.S. they had pudding cups that far back?

Oh Mom was not the worst of it. On days that Dad packed my lunch I would first have to explain WHAT a fired SPAM sandwitch was before explaining WHY someone would want it.

 

[Entity]

That leaves Salmons on the kids. Not sure if Salmons has much trade value either given the pointless inflated contract GP gave him last season.

Ever think that maybe it is us that is unaware of the market value of NBA players. Mind you Salmons was offered more from 2 teams on each end of the spectrum. 1 was the Suns who were contenders and the other being the Raptors who were not contenders. So exactly how pointless and inflated is that contract compared to the rest of the NBA. I am thinking it is probably along the same lines.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Ever think that maybe it is us that is unaware of the market value of NBA players. Mind you Salmons was offered more from 2 teams on each end of the spectrum. 1 was the Suns who were contenders and the other being the Raptors who were not contenders. So exactly how pointless and inflated is that contract compared to the rest of the NBA. I am thinking it is probably along the same lines.

Oh I am well aware that there was a bidding war for Salmon's services. I am also aware that he is a versitle player with a decent attitude and valuable. I would hesitate to say we "Won" the bidding war though. Many peopel thought the Raptors were about to over pay him when it looked like he was going there. If the Kings were a versitle bench player away from being contenders he MIGHT be worth the strech (see Phonenix) but last season we were at best a competent coach and healthy Center way from the #8 seed and a quick 1st round exit. Salmons really was not what we needed then and now we are saddled with his contract UNLESS we can find a contending team with a need willing to part with either expirings/picks for him. I just don't see him as moveable on his own and his contract is too big to be a throw in, so there you are. We now have a versitile bench player taking up a nice chunk of cap space while we need to be able to bring in a top FA as a starter. I just do NOT see how John Salmon's helps the Kings who are in theory in rebuild mode.

 

[dude12]

While I'm not a big fan of Salmons, he is a solid veteran who plays defense, is versatile, and actually has an offensive game if he would assert himself. I can take him or leave him but I also wouldn't want us going expansion team and signing a bunch of Shakur's, Greene's, D Watkins, etc. There is nothing wrong with Salmons as he gives us flexibility at 3 positions.

 

[HndsmCelt]

My original point was that like JS or not he will very likely be on the roster for quite some time.

 

[rhythmless]

Oh I am well aware that there was a bidding war for Salmon's services. I am also aware that he is a versitle player with a decent attitude and valuable. I would hesitate to say we "Won" the bidding war though.

its the winners curse .

salmons was what miki is. its all it is. just to tread water.

 

[dude12]

its the winners curse .

salmons was what miki is. its all it is. just to tread water.

There are 24+ teams who are treading water, waiting for the couple of FA signings or the draft pick that turns the corner for their teams. It has to be a major, major signing to do that. Who was the biggest FA signing this off-season? Lewis with Orlando? I thought they overpaid for him. He's good, real good but I don't think he puts them over the top. The thing is....you need contracts in the range of Salmons and Moore's so that you may actually be able to engineer a trade if the correct one comes along. Artest is hard to trade because there are very few players available with the same type of contract as his....who are at his level.

 

[Bricklayer]

There are 24+ teams who are treading water, waiting for the couple of FA signings or the draft pick that turns the corner for their teams. It has to be a major, major signing to do that. Who was the biggest FA signing this off-season? Lewis with Orlando? I thought they overpaid for him. He's good, real good but I don't think he puts them over the top. The thing is....you need contracts in the range of Salmons and Moore's so that you may actually be able to engineer a trade if the correct one comes along. Artest is hard to trade because there are very few players available with the same type of contract as his....who are at his level.

No, actually it is almost completely the opposite case. Contracts the size of Mikki's and ESPECIALLY Salmons' (given the length) are the nearly unmoveable trash of the league. Before Geoff decided to usurp his title, McHale had composed a team almost entirely of such garbage, and they couldn't make a trade to save their lives (or franchise player). You don't sign sub-mediocre players to long term midlevel deals with the idea of using them as trade bait. They aren't. Throwins at best. They ar elike the plaque that slowly but surely clogs your arteries. No single such deal kills you, but pile up enough of them and you are in serious trouble.

Those contracts should ONLY be handed ouot by elite/contending type teams filling one or two very specific needs. NEVER by rebuilding teams. And NEVER in excess (particulalry not as a half assed rebuilding plan). Is a reason players of that level are available for the MLE every year. They add no wins on their own.

 

[dude12]

You don't sign sub-mediocre players to long term midlevel deals with the idea of using them as trade bait.

Sub-mediocre? Overly dramatic description.

 

[rhythmless]

There are 24+ teams who are treading water, waiting for the couple of FA signings or the draft pick that turns the corner for their teams. It has to be a major, major signing to do that. Who was the biggest FA signing this off-season? Lewis with Orlando? I thought they overpaid for him. He's good, real good but I don't think he puts them over the top. The thing is....you need contracts in the range of Salmons and Moore's so that you may actually be able to engineer a trade if the correct one comes along. Artest is hard to trade because there are very few players available with the same type of contract as his....who are at his level.

maybe you misunderstood me. by treading water i mean not going anywhere, no direction, and no hope of reaching shore, but not bad enough to sink. i highly doubt that there are 24+ teams in the aforementioned description. talent will continue to rise, teams will get better, stars will rise. to go with them, you need to pull some crafty moves, and develop what you have. some teams do that. others, like us, are merely content (its what it seems like) to tread water. in this respect, i mean pick up a middling player that isnt garbage in the slightest, but sure as hell aint gonna be your savior. take your middle draft pick, sign your mle, and lle, and call it an offseason. win your 35-40 games, rinse, and repeat.

this analogy is getting stupid, but ill just keep going with it. if youre out in the middle of the water, treading water just to keep your head above the water wont get you anywhere (middle lottery, 10+/- seed). you need to turn over, float for a while, and assess the situation. wheres west? wheres east? (pick a plan). sure, you could float farther out (such as losing more). but you can then gather your strength for when the tides are favorable (cycles of winning teams/losing teams), and go for it when the waters are helping you.

 

[fnordius]

Sub-mediocre? Overly dramatic description.

Mediocre would be 6th-8th man on a middling team. Although the Kings didn't really make it to the "middling" level last year, NJ was as middling as possible (41-41), so if you take Moore and Salmons together, they might squeak by at the low end of mediocre. But when teams like GS and the Clippers have Brandan Wright and Al Thornton as 6th-7th men, it really is just squeaking by.

I don't think that "sub-mediocre" is much more of an exaggeration than "mediocre" would be. And when Moore turns 33, "sub-mediocre" will probably sound exactly right.

 

[Smills91]

I didn't see where Moore signed this long term deal? It's 2.5 years long basically. That's a very tradeable asset.

Salmons - I think is a GREAT 6-7th man off the bench. I think he's worth his pay, didn't overpay, we didn't underpay. He's very tradeable IMO, on his own merit. I think he'll look even better in an uptempo system that Theus plans to implement. Yeah his deal is long term, but he's a quality player.

Kenny/Brad/SAR only have 3 years left...they're 1-2 years away from being VERY tradeable pieces.

If C-Webb doesn't blow out his knee, this whole rebuild point is moot. Petrie did the best with what he had...it's tough cookies. The Clips just lost EB for probably the season, and they lost Livingston for the season last year and this year probably.

Tough cookies. Sucks for them to lose their franchise guy and most promising up-and-coming rook.

Same thing happened to us. You do the best with what you have. I still think we're in a great position to rebuild in 2 years, ESPECIALLY with some strong performances from Bibby/Ron/Brad to start out the season, which is VERY VERY LIKELY IMO.