What type of offense...

[Kingstime]

Do all of you think we would have the most success with running out there?

We have a very small sample size of game time to go from, but we all know something isn't exactly right out there. The strengths of this team are clearly Beno and Reke dribble drive and kick to a open shooter then after that what's next? The whole Landry ISO thing is not working right now as he is shooting over bigger 4's all game. Right now Demarcus is to raw defensively to be counted on to be a consistent guy out there on the court, but it's seen in earlier games he can get the stuff done when he has to.

As of right now I really think we'd be at our best starting off the game with Reke/Beno attacking, then bringing DMC off the bench to get to work downlow which will result in wide open looks for Cisco and Head. This isn't a negative PW roation or bench Landry thread I just really wanna get all of your thoughts on the offense.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

More ball movement, less iso, more plays involving Cousins.

 

[The Basketball Kings]

There's this dude named Adelman that runs a pretty good offense I hear.

Way better than this Westphal character. We should try to get that guy.

 

[cuad]

or any play that Boston runs to get Allen a three in the corner.

 

[Kingster]

Do all of you think we would have the most success with running out there?

We have a very small sample size of game time to go from, but we all know something isn't exactly right out there. The strengths of this team are clearly Beno and Reke dribble drive and kick to a open shooter then after that what's next? The whole Landry ISO thing is not working right now as he is shooting over bigger 4's all game. Right now Demarcus is to raw defensively to be counted on to be a consistent guy out there on the court, but it's seen in earlier games he can get the stuff done when he has to.

As of right now I really think we'd be at our best starting off the game with Reke/Beno attacking, then bringing DMC off the bench to get to work downlow which will result in wide open looks for Cisco and Head. This isn't a negative PW roation or bench Landry thread I just really wanna get all of your thoughts on the offense.

If it's only offense you're talking about, then I'd have a high post offense with Thompson at center, Tyreke and Beno at guards, Garcia at the wing and Jackson at pf. They could score some points. They would spread the floor and open it for Tyreke. Problem is, the defense would be poor.

OR with a low post offense, Cousins at center, Beno and Garcia at the guards, Casspi at the 3, Jackson (or Thompson) at the 4. All those guys can spread the floor for Cousins. Again, issues on defense. It would be a fun lineup though, especially if you really got it to Cousins every single time down the floor in your set-up offense. Of course, you don't have your best player on the floor in this offense.

The probem really is that we appear to have large defensive trade-offs when it comes to an offensive lineup, and large offensive trade-offs with a defensive lineup.
It seems like right now we only have three players with some semblance of offensive/defensive balance to their games: Tyreke, Garcia, Jackson.

 

[Kingstime]

The probem really is that we appear to have large defensive trade-offs when it comes to an offensive lineup, and large offensive trade-offs with a defensive lineup.
It seems like right now we only have three players with some semblance of offensive/defensive balance to their games: Tyreke, Garcia, Jackson.

Pretty much we are gonna have to sacrifice on one end to get something effective done on the other. I definately see what your saying there...

I made this thread because last night I noticed again that once Reke is gone from the game completely we are SOL on offense. There's no solid movement, no gameplan and no known second option. It's quite scary and depressing to see that when you take into account how often Reke's ankles act up...

I still believe DMC will be our second option go to guy and he has proven that in a couple games so far this year that he will go down to the post looking to get something done. It's highly frustrating although I know it's one game of 82 but last nights loss is really not sitting good with me haha. I can usually let these games like this go but that TWolves team has been getting blown out for the past week, except for that close Laker L.

 

[Larry89]

An organized offense??

 

[bajaden]

First off, everyone always wants to run, but you can't run unless you get stops and the defensive rebound. Its hard to run when the other team is putting the ball in the basket. Aside from that, I'd like to see anything that resembles some sort of offensive set. How about we run the pick and roll. You know, a play thats actually taught in highschool, and that just about every player thats ever played the game knows how to run. You tell me. How many time have you seen the Kings run the pick and roll. While at the same time, other teams are pick and rolling us to death.

How about we start every play through Cousins in the low or even the high post when he's in the game. He draws the double team every time he touchs the ball. Get the ball into Cousins and then spread the floor. Watch carefully in the next game. Just about everytime Cousins gets the ball in the post, another King, Landry, Jackson or one of the guards is in the post area which allows his man to double Cousins without really giving up his man on defense. Just plain stupid. For the most part the Kings are running isolation plays or Tyreke is driving and trying to find the open man. There's not enough ball movement, or players moving without the ball.

Twice in last nights game, Cousins came out to set a screen for Beno and then cut to the basket. Both times he was wide open under the basket with his arm up in the air signaling for the ball. Both times Beno failed to see him and passed the ball off to the wing. Simply put, this team isn't playing like a team. There's no chemistry or continuity. Three days off and two days of practice and the result is a team that at times looks like the keystone cops.

I would like to add that I'm not blaming anyone for Beasley going off. I doubt anyone could have stopped him last night. He was just having one of those nights. The guy that did the best job was Cisco, and that was because he got right up in his grill. Banging him with his body and making him unconfortable. The next best was Thompson, who wasn't able to stay in front of him, but blocked one of his shots from behind and bothered another one. Other than that, kudo's to Beasley. He just had a career night.

I'd like to close by saying that I really miss Rick Adelman. Sometimes you just don't know what you have until its gone. The man knew how to run a team and how to run an offense. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Bricklayer]

What confuses me almost as much as it seems to confuse the players is that we didn't do much over the summer. We swapped Hawes for Dalembert (and Darnell as it turns out), we drafted 2 young bigs, and we signed a handful of scrubs and roleplayers aroudn the edges. The entire core aside form Hawes returned, as did the coaching staff.

Okay then, given all that, why is there such confusion now? Yeah, we added a couple of bigs, but did that mean we entirely reconstructed the offense from the ground up? You would think that most of our guys shoudl know most of our sets and most of what we want to do from last year. And yet ironically the players who might look the LEAST confused about the whole thing are preceisely the new guys, Daly, Jackson, Cousins, and even Cisco who played little last year. You would also expect guys to be getting better at playing with each other -- a primary advanatge of keeping teams together. But maybe that has been negated by Westphal's constant experimentation and roster dickering.

 

[FaStRmAn]

ubt anyone could have stopped him last night. He was just having one of those nights. The guy that did the best job was Cisco, and that was because he got right up in his grill. Banging him with his body and making him unconfortable. The next best was Thompson, who wasn't able to stay in front of him, but blocked one of his shots from behind and bothered another one. Other than that, kudo's to Beasley. He just had a career night.

I'd like to close by saying that I really miss Rick Adelman. Sometimes you just don't know what you have until its gone. The man knew how to run a team and how to run an offense. I'll leave it at that.

This has become a disturbing regularity for the Kings. Too many players are either having big nights or career nights against the Kings. There is no sembelance of team defense. The one on one defense for some players is very poor like Beno or Landry, all in all they are not giving enough energy to play the kind of team defense they need to play in order to be competative. PW keeps harping about the defense, but the players do not seem to be meshing or improving on the defensive end. I think if they can get their defensive game going, their offense will be just fine. But like someone already said, hard to run with the ball if you are taking it out of the basket every time. Somehow the Kings need to drastically improve their defense, because right now they are playing defense like they dont even care. The effort appears to be lacking.

 

[swisshh]

I'm watching the Bulls-Warriors game and being amazed at the Bulls running an actual offense with people curling, and curling off of curls. All the movement of players and the passes seems a stark contrast to the Kings, who make a pass and then don't know what to do or where to go. Derrick Rose and Tyreke are not vastly different players, so if a Rose lead team can do it so can a Tyreke lead team. The question is why the Kings are running a street ball play (break down your man and get the hoop or kick it) without the flair instead of doing something more. Cousins is a very apt offensive focal point, he sees passes and he can see where a play can go. Casspi understands his wing role now, and is willing to run and cut. Cisco can make passes and is familiar with curls.

But still, the offense is plain and predictable, and unorganized at worst.

What offense would I run? Maybe a high low with Reke and Cousins. Some sort of offense that involves your two best weapons together. Be it Reke and Landry or Reke and Cousins, instead of an offense that separates the players and tells the defense that they only need to worry about one of those guys.

 

[King Baller]

Adelman - The Rockets is 1 and 6.
Westphal - The Kings are 3 and 4.

Its been a bad 3 game stretch for sure and this last was a stinker. I think Westphal's got to shorten up his rotation. If Landry does not snap out of it he has to be moved to a bench role.

I would start Evans, Udrih, Casspi, Cousins and Dalembert. 6th and 7th would be Garcia and Jackson. Landry, Thompson and Greene would see time depending on the fouls. I would also find out if Pooh can help us. The others = Mateen.

KB

 

[kennadog]

All I know is, like Bajaden, I really miss Adelman.

I'm not a basketball expert, but players do look confused and lost out there and, as a result, try do make something happen each on their own. Westphal is better than Mussleman or Theus, but I'm kind of beginning to wonder what he's doing. How can these players look so lost out there? Something is not being communicated or what is being communicated is confusing the players.

 

[swisshh]

I don't miss Adelman. Cousins would be getting 0 minutes with Rick here and somehow Brad Miller would be getting 32 minutes, even if he wasn't on the team. Rick is and always has been a good but fatally flawed coach.

 

[Kingster]

What confuses me almost as much as it seems to confuse the players is that we didn't do much over the summer. We swapped Hawes for Dalembert (and Darnell as it turns out), we drafted 2 young bigs, and we signed a handful of scrubs and roleplayers aroudn the edges. The entire core aside form Hawes returned, as did the coaching staff.

Okay then, given all that, why is there such confusion now? Yeah, we added a couple of bigs, but did that mean we entirely reconstructed the offense from the ground up? You would think that most of our guys shoudl know most of our sets and most of what we want to do from last year. And yet ironically the players who might look the LEAST confused about the whole thing are preceisely the new guys, Daly, Jackson, Cousins, and even Cisco who played little last year. You would also expect guys to be getting better at playing with each other -- a primary advanatge of keeping teams together. But maybe that has been negated by Westphal's constant experimentation and roster dickering.

You answered your own question. Yes, it is very different because we don't have a high post offense, whether it is with Thompson or Hawes. I don't think it's that complicated. We have one low post center that isn't much of a low post threat and therefore is net-net is a negative relative to last year because he drags guys into the paint. Then we have a legit low post scorer who is a rookie with a lot to learn. So why should we believe that on offense that is a good thing for us right now? Where is the beef from the center on offense? I really have no idea why you guys think the offense should be better than last year. The only way this offense can be better is if Dalembert's defensive contribution causes us to get a lot more fast breaks and possessions, not because the offense is going to be so much more productive. This team is set up to be a grinding ugly type of offense because of the type of players we have and the inexperience of Cousins. If you're looking for dissapointment, better look on the defensive side of the ball. THAT'S where the dissapointment is. Remember, the big center was supposed to cover up those defensive inadequacies, right? We should see significant improvement in the defense, right? So where exactly is it?

 

[rainmaker]

One thing is for certain, we need more movement, both physical movement(as in quit standing around!), and ball movement. However, there is one area where I would like to see improvement, and it's with opportunities already present with our current offense, if it actually qualifies as an offense.

And that would be guys attacking the paint and looking to finish strong or draw contact. I would love to see guys curling off screens and slashing to the hoop. More pick and rolls with Tyreke, and better spacing. But guys also need to learn how to attack the hoop when the opportunity is there, and/or when the jumper isn't falling.

Good example was the game against Memphis. Omri's 3 was off. His jumper was off. Yet on two consecutive possessions, he pumpfaked his mn at the 3pt line, side stepped, and jacked up a 22 footer. He missed both. On both instances, there was a wide open path to the hoop. He hadn't been hitting jumpers at that point. Attack the damn hoop!

That was only a single example. Omri is settling a lot for long balls though, unless in transition. Carl has been settling, instead of attacking the rim. Cisco pumpfakes all the time, but ends up shooting a fadeaway. Donte, when he actually plays, needs to learn to use his athleticism to draw fouls, instead of putting up those soft Kevin Martin-esque single leg runners. But besides Tyreke, we don't have anyone looking to attack the paint and draw fouls. Omri did in preseason, but not so much lately.

This is something which has to change. We don't have great shooters. Our spacing will take time to improve. When we fall behind, defense is a large reason why, but on offense, settling for long jumpers has been playing a large part as well. Right now, we don't have a wing who looks to drive and attack. They all want to spot up. Our guys have got to learn how to get to the ft line. Tyreke does. Beno has a great pullup which works fine. But Omri, Donte, Cisco, and Carl are all guilty of settling way too often.

Good teams draw fouls. They have a wing or two with the ability to attack the paint and either draw contact, finish, or create something for others. I'm not talking about attacking and throwing down on someone. Just being aggressive enough not to settle, and attack and create something for someone else. When was the last time any of you saw someone besides Beno or Tyreke drive and kick for a jumper? This would help our offense immediately. More guys looking to attack when the opportunity is there opens up more passing lanes. It makes us tougher to guard. Cousins would get better looks when his defender helps. Same with Dally, who's a very good finisher around the rim when receiving dump off passes. Landry could actually catch and shoot in rhythm. But we need someone besides Tyreke willing to take the ball into the paint and create.

 

[kingsboi]

What I really want to see up to this point is Carl being moved to the 6th man role, let him find his groove off the bench where he will get the majority of the touches. Cousins should go back to starting because he is clearly more effective in a starters role because he gets more touches and doesn't get yanked after a mistake or two. I also wouldn't mind Beno coming off the bench just to help Carl out with some offense, start Cisco. We don't have many efficient offensive players, if any at all, so a shake up in the starting line up wouldn't hurt because we have nothing to lose at this point.

 

[Prince_XY]

I believe we actually have a set of offensive and defensive plays. This is professional basketball we are talking about and I believe it is a given the coaching staff have some defensive and offensive plays for the team.

The problem is on the execution. Players are just not good enough in executing the plays or not capable of adjusting when those plays failed. I don't know if they are lazy, does not trust their team mates, or just too dumb not to know fundamental basketball.

And it looks like the coaching staff are not helping to correct their deficiencies.

Examples:

Twice in last nights game, Cousins came out to set a screen for Beno and then cut to the basket. Both times he was wide open under the basket with his arm up in the air signaling for the ball. Both times Beno failed to see him and passed the ball off to the wing.

One thing is for certain, we need more movement, both physical movement(as in quit standing around!), and ball movement.

 

[Bricklayer]

You answered your own question. Yes, it is very different because we don't have a high post offense, whether it is with Thompson or Hawes. I don't think it's that complicated. We have one low post center that isn't much of a low post threat and therefore is net-net is a negative relative to last year because he drags guys into the paint. Then we have a legit low post scorer who is a rookie with a lot to learn. So why should we believe that on offense that is a good thing for us right now? Where is the beef from the center on offense? I really have no idea why you guys think the offense should be better than last year. The only way this offense can be better is if Dalembert's defensive contribution causes us to get a lot more fast breaks and possessions, not because the offense is going to be so much more productive. This team is set up to be a grinding ugly type of offense because of the type of players we have and the inexperience of Cousins. If you're looking for dissapointment, better look on the defensive side of the ball. THAT'S where the dissapointment is. Remember, the big center was supposed to cover up those defensive inadequacies, right? We should see significant improvement in the defense, right? So where exactly is it?

All this high post offense stuff is nonsense -- we might have run 1 play in 10 initiated from the high post last year. Less than that after Kevin left Unles you want to with a straight face sit there and tell me you were watching us run the offense through Spencer last year.

And this year, big players or not, we barely run anything from the low post either. Its not as if we are calling isos for Dalembert in the post. He's a garbage man, not a post player. Whatever the talents of the individual players, if those talents are not being used, the offense should not change dramatically because of it. 9/10 of those plays should be the same unless we put in a whole new offense. 7 of the 9 top players are the same (or would be if Westphal played them). 4/5 of the coaching staff are the same.

 

[Kingster]

All this high post offense stuff is nonsense -- we might have run 1 play in 10 initiated from the high post last year. Less than that after Kevin left Unles you want to with a straight face sit there and tell me you were watching us run the offense through Spencer last year.

And this year, big players or not, we barely run anything from the low post either. Its not as if we are calling isos for Dalembert in the post. He's a garbage man, not a post player. Whatever the talents of the individual players, if those talents are not being used, the offense should not change dramatically because of it. 9/10 of those plays should be the same unless we put in a whole new offense. 7 of the 9 top players are the same (or would be if Westphal played them). 4/5 of the coaching staff are the same.

Don't play with semantics. You're talking BS. You don't have to have a center as the primary cog of the high post offense for it to be a high post offense. Tyreke was always the main cog, but it was through a high post offense and you know it. What do you think we ran last year? Hawes as the low post center? Oh, yeah, I remember all of those occassions on the fingers of one hand. Thompson not at the elbow being a high post center? Heck, the best Thompson played last year was when he was the center at the high post, shooting outside shots in many cases created by Tyreke drives. If you don't recall that, you don't recall much.

So let me ask you: Were players "confused" last year in Westphal's high post offense? (and you can call it whatever you want; you can call it the Brickoffense for all I care). Was Landry lousy in the post in that high post offense? At the end of last year, was Thompson more productive as the center than he is now? Both were more effective than they are now. So where exactly did all this "confusion" come from then? From some mysterious vapor in the lockeroom? Heck no, it came from the subtraction by addition of Dalembert in the low post and the domino effect on the rest of the players in that offense. The only reason that should be difficult to comprehend is because you don't want to comprehend it.

It's like I said from the beginning - getting Dalembert is a plus on defense and a minus on offense, especially how it ripples to the rest of the team. The challenge for Westphal is going to be getting more pluses from his defense than minuses from his offense. This is obviously not an easy transition, but I expect over time, it will get better, especially when we add quickness to the wing positions. There is, after all, a limit to how much a shot blocking center can do for the defense.

 

[Boogie-havoc]

An offence that will have our bigs actually drawing contact on thier screens, and not make an imaginary screen for 48 minutes, not helping the guard to get open at all and wasting our time.

That would be a very nice start.. I actually feel stupid typing this like 5-6 times now, and start to question is this is really an order from the coaching staff, not touching the defender and trying to block him while you set a screen.

I'm not an expert in offence terms and stuff, but i'd tell my players especiely the wing to cut to the basket when Cousins is on the lowpost doing his move to give another option rather then stand still(example:his winning shot vs Minni at SL).. I would also keep encoraging the off the ball cuts when Dally or Cousins stand on the high-post letting them pick thier passes, I would make more pick&rolls as it was mentioned with Reke and whoever else is it. Those things was barely made in the games, and when it was it went well, so i'd like to see more of that.

In general more ball movement and more off the ball movement, and not ISOs and street-ball.

 

[Spike]

I think this sums up our offensive structure.

I don't see any flow whatsoever. If he's leaning towards a freestyle-motion offense, then I guess I do see some elements there, and they'll get better as they learn to adapt and understand each other's strengths/weaknesses. If that's not the plan, then the video stands. It's so odd to have such high quality offensive players and not get any consistency out of them. Even a simple pick/roll with Cousins would surely free up cutters to the basket. But hey, I'm not an NBA coach, so I can't understand the complexities of the game. :|

 

[bajaden]

Don't play with semantics. You're talking BS. You don't have to have a center as the primary cog of the high post offense for it to be a high post offense. Tyreke was always the main cog, but it was through a high post offense and you know it. What do you think we ran last year? Hawes as the low post center? Oh, yeah, I remember all of those occassions on the fingers of one hand. Thompson not at the elbow being a high post center? Heck, the best Thompson played last year was when he was the center at the high post, shooting outside shots in many cases created by Tyreke drives. If you don't recall that, you don't recall much.

So let me ask you: Were players "confused" last year in Westphal's high post offense? (and you can call it whatever you want; you can call it the Brickoffense for all I care). Was Landry lousy in the post in that high post offense? At the end of last year, was Thompson more productive as the center than he is now? Both were more effective than they are now. So where exactly did all this "confusion" come from then? From some mysterious vapor in the lockeroom? Heck no, it came from the subtraction by addition of Dalembert in the low post and the domino effect on the rest of the players in that offense. The only reason that should be difficult to comprehend is because you don't want to comprehend it.

It's like I said from the beginning - getting Dalembert is a plus on defense and a minus on offense, especially how it ripples to the rest of the team. The challenge for Westphal is going to be getting more pluses from his defense than minuses from his offense. This is obviously not an easy transition, but I expect over time, it will get better, especially when we add quickness to the wing positions. There is, after all, a limit to how much a shot blocking center can do for the defense.

The only type of high or low post offense I want to see is the type we ran with Vlade and Webber. There was, for the most part, no high post offense last year. We would dabble with it once in a while, but the problem was that Hawes simply wasn't effective running the offense on a regualr basis. I think Cousins can be. Yes he's inexperienced, but his problems lay on the defensive end and with stupid fouls. On offense he's been very effective. Yes, he'll make an occasional mistake, but he's a very good, and creative passer whose capable of finding the open man. Some of the problems he's had on offense aren't all his fault.

In the next game see how many times you see this happen. Cousins will get position in the low post and wave for the ball. The ballhandler will wave him off and ask for him to set a screen. Cousins now comes out almost to the three point line and sets the screen. Now in some cases the ballhandler, who decides he has no place to go, passes the ball to Cousins, who is standing just inside the three point line. Not the optimum place for him to be. He has several options at this point, depending on the state of the shot clock. Pass the ball to someone else. Shoot the ball if he happens to be open. Or, put the ball on the floor and try to get closer to the basket. Any of the three options could be sucessful, but its not the best place for Cousins to be starting his offense.

Ideally if he sets a screen he should then cut back to the basket similar to what you would do off a pick and roll. In the last game he did that several times only to be ignored. My point is that there are basic playes that you learn in highschool that regardless of how old they are, they're still very effective plays when run properly. You tell me how many times the Kings ran the pick and roll in the last game. For the most part they're passing the ball around the perimiter with little purpose, and then ending up with someone going one on one, and too many times taking a forced shot. Landry did it at least three times in the last game. What was frustrating is that Landry passed up wide open shots when he had them. Its amazing to me that some are picking on Thompson in his limited minutes, and saying nothing about Landry, who at the moment for some reason, is playing with his thumb up his butt.

I think Bricky is right. There's no reason for the offense to look worse than last year. It should at least look as good. This team went into a horrible tailspin at the end of last season losing something like 17 out of 20 games. Ironicaly the only two players that were playing well at the end of the season were Evans and Thompson. And that was with Thompson at center where he almost averaged a double/double the last 20 games. I thought that was something to build on. I guess not.

Two things I would like to see. Running the offense through Cousins in the low post. He draws a double almost everytime he gets the ball in the post. Thats something you can work off of with cutters and spot up shooters. Also letting Tyreke and Cousins, and also Dalembert, who's very good at cutting to the basket, run the pick and roll. I don't understand the absence of it in the Kings offense. Personally I perfer the low pick and roll similar to what Stockton and Malone ran. Get your centers involved in the offense. It takes the pressure off your perimiter players and gets them easier shots. This isn't rocket science. For heavens sake we used to run triple screens for Martin when Adelman was here. Runs some screens for Omri once in a while instead of just letting him pick up scraps here and there on his own.

In his time Westphal was a very athletic one on one player. Because it was easy for him, maybe he has the mentality that his players should be able to do what he used to do. I don't know. But they're making it look harder than it should be.

 

[Kingster]

The only type of high or low post offense I want to see is the type we ran with Vlade and Webber. There was, for the most part, no high post offense last year. We would dabble with it once in a while, but the problem was that Hawes simply wasn't effective running the offense on a regualr basis. I think Cousins can be. Yes he's inexperienced, but his problems lay on the defensive end and with stupid fouls. On offense he's been very effective. Yes, he'll make an occasional mistake, but he's a very good, and creative passer whose capable of finding the open man. Some of the problems he's had on offense aren't all his fault.

In the next game see how many times you see this happen. Cousins will get position in the low post and wave for the ball. The ballhandler will wave him off and ask for him to set a screen. Cousins now comes out almost to the three point line and sets the screen. Now in some cases the ballhandler, who decides he has no place to go, passes the ball to Cousins, who is standing just inside the three point line. Not the optimum place for him to be. He has several options at this point, depending on the state of the shot clock. Pass the ball to someone else. Shoot the ball if he happens to be open. Or, put the ball on the floor and try to get closer to the basket. Any of the three options could be sucessful, but its not the best place for Cousins to be starting his offense.

Ideally if he sets a screen he should then cut back to the basket similar to what you would do off a pick and roll. In the last game he did that several times only to be ignored. My point is that there are basic playes that you learn in highschool that regardless of how old they are, they're still very effective plays when run properly. You tell me how many times the Kings ran the pick and roll in the last game. For the most part they're passing the ball around the perimiter with little purpose, and then ending up with someone going one on one, and too many times taking a forced shot. Landry did it at least three times in the last game. What was frustrating is that Landry passed up wide open shots when he had them. Its amazing to me that some are picking on Thompson in his limited minutes, and saying nothing about Landry, who at the moment for some reason, is playing with his thumb up his butt.

I think Bricky is right. There's no reason for the offense to look worse than last year. It should at least look as good. This team went into a horrible tailspin at the end of last season losing something like 17 out of 20 games. Ironicaly the only two players that were playing well at the end of the season were Evans and Thompson. And that was with Thompson at center where he almost averaged a double/double the last 20 games. I thought that was something to build on. I guess not.

Two things I would like to see. Running the offense through Cousins in the low post. He draws a double almost everytime he gets the ball in the post. Thats something you can work off of with cutters and spot up shooters. Also letting Tyreke and Cousins, and also Dalembert, who's very good at cutting to the basket, run the pick and roll. I don't understand the absence of it in the Kings offense. Personally I perfer the low pick and roll similar to what Stockton and Malone ran. Get your centers involved in the offense. It takes the pressure off your perimiter players and gets them easier shots. This isn't rocket science. For heavens sake we used to run triple screens for Martin when Adelman was here. Runs some screens for Omri once in a while instead of just letting him pick up scraps here and there on his own.

In his time Westphal was a very athletic one on one player. Because it was easy for him, maybe he has the mentality that his players should be able to do what he used to do. I don't know. But they're making it look harder than it should be.

I'm not advocating a high post offense. I'm making the simple observation that we did in fact have a high post offense last year (I certainly didn't see Thompson in the low post when he played center, did you?) in which our center did in fact play "high", which did open the floor for Tyreke and Landry. That's the control experiment. Now subtract Hawes (and Thompson) from the center equation; add Dalembert with Cousins as a touch of spice. Does Dalembert play "high" like either Hawes or Thompson? Answer: No. Does Dalembert play low, essentially camping just outside the paint? Yes. Does that drag Dalembert's defender into the paint? Yes. That's essentially the different equation from last year. And from that there are domino effects. Having a low post center with little offensive game does have a price, no? There are ripple effects, primarily the lack of space that comes from having the guy in the post whose job is mostly that of offensive rebounding after shots are put up (and I'll grant you the occassional alley-oop). That's the simple point. Now maybe I'm delusional or in a cryogenic chamber and Hawes wasn't out there shooting 20-footers and Thompson wasn't put as center and was shooting 18 footers opening up with floor with Reynolds complementing him as such, but unless I go flying off the building and do not in fact go splat that's my recollection. If you and Bricky want to believe that the great offensive threat, Dalembert will actually make the other offensive players better, not worse, feel free.

Cousins is an entirely different matter. And I really think you're conflating Cousins with Dalembert in the discussion, which centers around the question: why doesn't the offense look very good? Cousins is much more of an offensive threat than Dalembert. He might even require a double team from some teams, which does open up the floor and does make teamates "better" on offense. He is just the opposite of Dalembert, when it comes to offense.

Now, your second paragraph. I think that experience is fairly typical with rookies. The vets don't exactly defer to rookies, even one's with potential like Cousins. That's the trust factor. That lack of deferment or trust isn't going to change overnight, unless Westphal makes it an absolute rule to get Cousins the ball in the low post every time he comes down the court. Maybe he should? I dunno. I'm sure there will be improvement on Cousins part and tinkering with the offense and players getting used to Cousins. But why should we think that today's offense with Cousins should be markedly better than what it is? He's a rookie. He fouls a lot. He's making rookie mistakes. And even if he were a veteran, there would be adjustments by other players to his game (See Miami). And then we're just talking in this discussion about offense, when we know his defense is poor. So, with Dalembert, he makes teamates better on defense; he makes guys worse on offense. Cousins is the mirror opposite.

Expectations are just too high for this team right now. There's a disconnect between the the criticism of performance and the expectations of wins for the season. Now if you really think this team should be .500 and above, I can understand the unhappiness and you must be very dissapointed there isn't more synergy on this team. But if you're like me, and thinking 30-35 wins, then this kind of performance at the beginning of the season isn't that big of a deal. Teams that get 30-35 wins with a bunch of young players aren't supposed to look like a well-oiled machine. That's one of the big reasons they don't get over .500.

 

[Asaf]

I don't think anyone is expecting us to make the playoffs this year (although I did think it was a remote possibility before the season started and I witnessed the chaos that is the 2010-2011 Sacramento Kings), but even if you expect 30-35 wins, you should reasonably expect us to be above .500 right now, considering the schedule we have had so far. We will have enough opportunities to get blown out by Miami, Orlando, Boston, Denver, and Utah. We should at least build up a little cushion when we are playing at home against mother-fricking Minnesota.

 

[Kingster]

I don't think anyone is expecting us to make the playoffs this year (although I did think it was a remote possibility before the season started and I witnessed the chaos that is the 2010-2011 Sacramento Kings), but even if you expect 30-35 wins, you should reasonably expect us to be above .500 right now, considering the schedule we have had so far. We will have enough opportunities to get blown out by Miami, Orlando, Boston, Denver, and Utah. We should at least build up a little cushion when we are playing at home against mother-fricking Minnesota.

No, I don't think I should expect .500 ball at the beginning of the season. Greene is a no-show. Add the complicating factor of Dalembert in the offense. Cousins is a rookie. And we're still very young. I don't think there is reason to expect .500 ball right out of the gate. And really, we're only 7 games into the season; there are going to be several bumps along the way, just like any season. Minnesota was one such bump.