What to do with Thornton?

[roasthawg]

I feel bad because Marcus seems like a great guy and a hard worker... and just as importantly maybe is signed to a nice deal and actually likes being in Sac. That said I feel like we might be best suited to trade him. I mean if K-Mart didn't work next to Reke and had to go then how can Thornton be any better? He's not as good as Kevin but brings a lot of the same things to the table.

The best Tyreke played was with Beno playing next to him. IT/Jimmer are more Beno-ish than Marcus for sure... throw Williams into the mix and that should be the makings of our guard rotation going into next season I think.

Again, I like everything about Marcus aside from his style of basketball as it relates to the Kings chances of winning. I think he's the guy that should be traded for a small forward.

 

[Block Party]

I honestly do NOT want us to move Marcus. He's a cold blooded shooter and scorer. As much as I love Tyreke, I'd rather see us move him for a solid 3 than Marcus.

 

[roasthawg]

I honestly do NOT want us to move Marcus. He's a cold blooded shooter and scorer. As much as I love Tyreke, I'd rather see us move him for a solid 3 than Marcus.

Tyreke is indispensable imo... I'd rather keep him at the 3 against his wishes than try to move him for a lessor 3. Tyreke for Gay or Iggy are the only deals I would consider off the top of my head.... much rather Evans as our 2 and a Thornton trade for a 3 imo.

 

[gatoradeSD]

I say we just try tyreke and marcus again for a while. maybe theyll find their niche

 

[Nighthawk1]

I feel bad because Marcus seems like a great guy and a hard worker... and just as importantly maybe is signed to a nice deal and actually likes being in Sac. That said I feel like we might be best suited to trade him. I mean if K-Mart didn't work next to Reke and had to go then how can Thornton be any better? He's not as good as Kevin but brings a lot of the same things to the table.

The best Tyreke played was with Beno playing next to him. IT/Jimmer are more Beno-ish than Marcus for sure... throw Williams into the mix and that should be the makings of our guard rotation going into next season I think.

Again, I like everything about Marcus aside from his style of basketball as it relates to the Kings chances of winning. I think he's the guy that should be traded for a small forward.

I agree. If we can use him to aide us in getting a real SF I will drive him to the airport

 

[Kingsguy881]

Marcus needs to settle into a Hardern/Ginobli role imo. Stone cold killa off the bench, running thangs against other teams second units and providing 18ppg off the bench in sparkplug Vinny Microwave fashion.

 

[The_Jamal]

Thornton is the guy you trade to find players that fit and be willing to lose on value. Although SA would likely never do it, a package of someone like Kawhi Leonard and Tiago Splitter would be the type of pieces you look for in a deal for Thornton

 

[upinsmoke]

He's our best game closer why in the world would we trade him? Bring him off the bench as a 6th man and use T-Rob as trade bait along with hayes, jimmer or Garcia to to make the numbers work and bring in a legit SF, Re-sign JT & T-Will, off-season done.

 

[Kingsguy881]

He's our best game closer why in the world would we trade him? Bring him off the bench as a 6th man and use T-Rob as trade bait along with hayes, jimmer or Garcia to to make the numbers work and bring in a legit SF, Re-sign JT & T-Will, off-season done.

Only a fool would get rid of TRob before you know what you have. If I had to make a comparison of TRob it would be Bosh but slightly more athletic. And you would really trade that? Really?

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

If we keep him around, I HOPE we bring in a nice veteran SF who will force either Thornton or Thomas to the bench. As the roster stands right now, You can't bench him. Right now, we're still looking at:

Thomas - Thornton - Evans - Robinson - Cousins.

Salmons/Outlaw/Garcia/Honeycutt aren't forcing any of those guys out of the starting unit. It wouldn't be right, and who ever gets benched would be rightfully pissed off. You're going to bench me for this garbage? That would be the thought.

Ginobili and Harden can do it because they play for winners. And Harden will be starting at some point in the near future. We are the opposite of a winner. We are perennial losers. That's what we have done best over the past 5 or so seasons. So we'd have to bring in Iggy. Or Deng. Or AK47. Or Prince. Or someone with THAT kind of track record. That kind of success. That is how you convince Thornton or Thomas that the bench makes the most sense for one of them. Because under that scenario ... they'd look selfish. They'd look bad. Thomas and Thornton really seem to 'get it' from that standpoint. If we can bring in a better player, I think they will take the benching like a man. The other issue is that if we are going after Deng or Iguodala .. its petty likely Thornton would be going back the other way in that sort of trade anyway.

Which is why my favorite solution is AK47. He'd be the best fit out there.

Thomas
Evans
Kirilenko
Robinson
Cousins

With Thornton / Thompson / Hayes / Salmons / Jimmer / TWill / Garcia / Outlaw / Whiteside / Honeycutt

Playoffs would turn into something I would EXPECT. Anything less than an 8 seed would be a disappointment.

One last thing .. If We don't have the cap room or finances to sign AK, Let Thompson walk and put that money towards him. Kirilenko is more important right now.

 

[Siranthony]

Seriously? I don't get it. Why are people talking about Thornton moving? We like him remember? Right now I would take him over Tyreke. The only piece we don't have is a SF. Getting rid of him doesn't fill the hole without downgrading SG. The way this team is shaking out with the talent we have, Tyreke is the vauable piece that is the odd man out. Maybe Tyreke can move to SG or SF and compete there but if we are talking about a trade then why Marcus?

 

[Gilles]

Tyreke has low value due to a few reasons. Thornton looks exactly like his stats or his game and on a reasonable contract. His value/impact on the team ratio is much better than for Tyreke at the moment.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

What do we do with Marcus: 6th man

i.e.: Vinny Johnson, James Harden, Jason Terry.

edit: And Tyreke NEEDS to be moved to his more natural position of SG.

 

[upinsmoke]

Only a fool would get rid of TRob before you know what you have. If I had to make a comparison of TRob it would be Bosh but slightly more athletic. And you would really trade that? Really?

We need a defensive 3 like nobody's business. I'm not saying T-Rob is not a good player but a 6'8 PF is not the missing peice to this puzzle that's for sure. So yes REALLY.

1. IT
2. Evans
3. W. Chandler
4. JT
5. CUZ

Sounds fair to me.

 

[kingsnation]

Tyreke is indispensable imo... I'd rather keep him at the 3 against his wishes than try to move him for a lessor 3. Tyreke for Gay or Iggy are the only deals I would consider off the top of my head.... much rather Evans as our 2 and a Thornton trade for a 3 imo.

By doing that, you are making him dispensable. He doesn't want to play the 3. We play him there - you can bet he's gone when his contract is up.

 

[Block Party]

Trading Thomas Robinson is absolutely moronic.

 

[Bricklayer]

Only a fool would get rid of TRob before you know what you have. If I had to make a comparison of TRob it would be Bosh but slightly more athletic. And you would really trade that? Really?

He's nothing like Bosh at all. That's a very strange comparison.

Bosh is much taller, much smoother offensively, much softer. Bosh is one of the elite big man shooters in the game and made his entire living peppeing in 18 footers. TRob is smaller, more explosive athletically, tougher, although reb numbers might end up similar they get them in different ways. He scores more through hustle and aggressiveness right now than offensive smoothness, and his jumper is very much a work in progress. How are these the same guy? I'm legiitmately curious.

 

[gunks]

I honestly do NOT want us to move Marcus. He's a cold blooded shooter and scorer. As much as I love Tyreke, I'd rather see us move him for a solid 3 than Marcus.

Plays no D. Doesnt rebound or pass anymore. Plays the same position as a superior player (Reke). Is very streaky, and jacks more shots than he should. Plays no D.

I agree with need shooting, and Thornton is the best shooter we have (part of why his fg% is low is because he takes a lot of 3s, his 3pt % is decent)....BUT, the dude is a net negative on the court. He's mad selfish, and gets lit up by whoever he is "guarding". If we can ship him off before other GMs realize what fools gold he is, than we do it.

 

[rhythmless]

We need a defensive 3 like nobody's business. I'm not saying T-Rob is not a good player but a 6'8 PF is not the missing peice to this puzzle that's for sure. So yes REALLY.

1. IT
2. Evans
3. W. Chandler
4. JT
5. CUZ

Sounds fair to me.

Your bias is showing. Trob is 6'9" like every other 6'9 pf, with good wingspan, ok reach and lots of explosiveness.

 

[Bricklayer]

Um..we obviously aren't going to trade TRob (needs a real nickname btw) unless its something leftover from the draft, whihc seems highly unlikely. We made the choice to go with him, he's the 5th pick in the draft, he's going to get his shot. So I don't even see the point in disucssing that.

But his presence does effect team structure, and peeps, the ENTIRE reason we suck right now is because we have routinely ignored team structure. Well we can't. TRob is here. He could flop I supose, But until you know that for sure you just have to account for him making it when you consider how to structure the rest of the team. And one of the things that he presumably is going to be, until he proves he is not, is that 3rd weapon in the lineup. Unless he roleplayers it up, it changes the SF need from 15ppg 3rd weapon to 10ppg defensive roleplayer. It certianly makes any return of the IT/MT/Reke trio impossible -- a cost here is that JT was the only damn rotation player on the whole team last year who understood how to play a roleplayer role and stay out of the way. TRob being there drains more shots than JT would, so we can NOT bring back all the stupid smallball gunners as starters -- there weren't enough shots there as was, and with a more offensively aggressive PF there will be even less. Hence, somebody has to go to the bench, that person has to be a 6th man...which displaces a bad contract in Salmons, and possibly Twill, unless he becomes the SF. Meanwhile we remain in defensive distress unless that SF is one HELL of a defender.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Plays no D. Doesnt rebound or pass anymore. Plays the same position as a superior player (Reke). Is very streaky, and jacks more shots than he should. Plays no D.

I agree with need shooting, and Thornton is the best shooter we have (part of why his fg% is low is because he takes a lot of 3s, his 3pt % is decent)....BUT, the dude is a net negative on the court. He's mad selfish, and gets lit up by whoever he is "guarding". If we can ship him off before other GMs realize what fools gold he is, than we do it.

Robinson gets so much love for his motor and toughness.

Thornton deserves the same treatment. He is tough as nails. His motor is fantastic. Like Robinson, he is relentless. Rare traits for the kind of scorer he is.

I think you are selling him really short. And I would trade him in the right deal too, just saying.

 

[steelevt]

Plays no D. Doesnt rebound or pass anymore. Plays the same position as a superior player (Reke). Is very streaky, and jacks more shots than he should. Plays no D.

I agree with need shooting, and Thornton is the best shooter we have (part of why his fg% is low is because he takes a lot of 3s, his 3pt % is decent)....BUT, the dude is a net negative on the court. He's mad selfish, and gets lit up by whoever he is "guarding". If we can ship him off before other GMs realize what fools gold he is, than we do it.

one of the reasons why i dont understand why people hated kevin martin and said he doesnt fit, yet love marcus thornton and dont want to trade him. they only reason i see would be salary. i mean the end of the season when we got thornton, i saw him play a little defense so i was ok with him over martin especially since he was a lot cheaper. but the more i saw his lack of defense last year, the less valuable he seemed.

 

[Bricklayer]

I honestly do NOT want us to move Marcus. He's a cold blooded shooter and scorer. As much as I love Tyreke, I'd rather see us move him for a solid 3 than Marcus.

One dimensional player however, and good as he is, not good enough to be the second star on a great team. We saw Harden get badly exposed in the Finals as a 3rd weapon. Thornton is not even that good. If you have to choose you choose the all around player with the chance for greatness.

The biggest thing about Thornton is not his game, its his contract. If we insist on playing Reke away from PG, then it could cost us what is otherwise a very reasonable veteran contract, similar to the way we got Peja and Bobby on the cheap a decade ago.

 

[Bricklayer]

one of the reasons why i dont understand why people hated kevin martin and said he doesnt fit, yet love marcus thornton and dont want to trade him. they only reason i see would be salary. i mean the end of the season when we got thornton, i saw him play a little defense so i was ok with him over martin especially since he was a lot cheaper. but the more i saw his lack of defense last year, the less valuable he seemed.

The extra with Thronton is that he is tough, clutch and hyper competitive. Kevin was just soft and passive. But all those things about Thornton are exaggerated to such a degree that they could turn against you in a situation where he is getting squeezed for shots, minutes, and glory. Its esentially a selfish enterprise with Marcus.

 

[gunks]

Robinson gets so much love for his motor and toughness.

Thornton deserves the same treatment. He is tough as nails. His motor is fantastic. Like Robinson, he is relentless. Rare traits for the kind of scorer he is.

I think you are selling him really short. And I would trade him in the right deal too, just saying.

Robinsons toughness = rebounding, banging, playing physical

MTs toughness = jacking shot after shot until one goes in. I agree that he's relentless, but its not the kind of relentlessness that wins ballgames. He is like a homeless man's Iverson.


Edit: Anyways, lets just agree to disagree on this one. I can see why people like MT. And if he was willing to accept a 6th man role, I'd like him too.. He would be awesome coming off the bench. I just think fit is a major issue with the guy, as well as the rumors that he isnt willing to accept a bench role.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

one of the reasons why i dont understand why people hated kevin martin and said he doesnt fit, yet love marcus thornton and dont want to trade him. they only reason i see would be salary. i mean the end of the season when we got thornton, i saw him play a little defense so i was ok with him over martin especially since he was a lot cheaper. but the more i saw his lack of defense last year, the less valuable he seemed.

To be completely fair .. If we are going to give Evans a pass on defense because he played SF last year, Thornton should get SOME of the same treatment. There were times when he was forced to guard Prince or GWallace due to switches or Evans moving to a different man. Of course he can't stop those guys. He suffered the most defensively from the IT - Thornton - Evans lineup.

He was at his best defensively when he was paired with Evans... which allowed Thornton to guard the smaller player out of the opposing teams PG or SG.

Obviously his defense isn't good. We know that. I think he can be average though, under the right scenario. And his defense would be a non-issue as a sixth man type if we signed AK47 and pushed him to the bench.

 

[funkykingston]

If Thompson is resigned my guess is that the season begins with him as the starting PF next to Cousins.

I can't see Smart actually doing so but I'd love to see a starting backcourt of a re-signed Terrance Williams and Tyreke Evans. Tyreke has already shown that he can defend opposing PGs so now we get back to have a huge mismatch in the backcourt and between Williams and Tyreke there is enough ball handling and passing to make it work. A play MUST be made for a quality starting SF either through trades or free agency but that player still only needs to fit the basic mold that has been outlined ad nauseum - good spot shooter, good (and good sized) defender, able to run the break and accepting of playing his role.

Thornton would be an ideal scoring sixth man, Robinson adds energy and rebounding off the bench (though he'll likely start later meaning we have JT's versatility off the bench), IT becomes a change of pace PG and sparkplug, and hopefully Hassan develops into a rim protecting reserve. I see Jimmer as trade bait but if he returns then hopefully he grows into a Steve Kerr type role. Anything provided by the rest of the roster (Hayes, Salmons, Garcia & Outlaw as it stands today) is a bonus.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Robinsons toughness = rebounding, banging, playing physical

MTs toughness = jacking shot after shot until one goes in. I agree that he's relentless, but its not the kind of relentlessness that wins ballgames. He is like a homeless man's Iverson.


Edit: Anyways, lets just agree to disagree on this one. I can see why people like MT. And if he was willing to accept a 6th man role, I'd like him too.. He would be awesome coming off the bench. I just think fit is a major issue with the guy, as well as the rumors that he isnt willing to accept a bench role.

I actually agree with your vision, just not your thoughts on Thornton. Which is fine. I think we both want the same thing, though. Which involves the Kings getting a starting caliber defensive minded SF by either trading Thornton, or signing someone that would push Thornton to the bench... masking a lot of his weaknesses.

 

[ESP47]

Um..we obviously aren't going to trade TRob (needs a real nickname btw) unless its something leftover from the draft, whihc seems highly unlikely. We made the choice to go with him, he's the 5th pick in the draft, he's going to get his shot. So I don't even see the point in disucssing that.

But his presence does effect team structure, and peeps, the ENTIRE reason we suck right now is because we have routinely ignored team structure. Well we can't. TRob is here. He could flop I supose, But until you know that for sure you just have to account for him making it when you consider how to structure the rest of the team. And one of the things that he presumably is going to be, until he proves he is not, is that 3rd weapon in the lineup. Unless he roleplayers it up, it changes the SF need from 15ppg 3rd weapon to 10ppg defensive roleplayer. It certianly makes any return of the IT/MT/Reke trio impossible -- a cost here is that JT was the only damn rotation player on the whole team last year who understood how to play a roleplayer role and stay out of the way. TRob being there drains more shots than JT would, so we can NOT bring back all the stupid smallball gunners as starters -- there weren't enough shots there as was, and with a more offensively aggressive PF there will be even less. Hence, somebody has to go to the bench, that person has to be a 6th man...which displaces a bad contract in Salmons, and possibly Twill, unless he becomes the SF. Meanwhile we remain in defensive distress unless that SF is one HELL of a defender.

What are you people thinking? You guys act like were some kind of great offensive team that can't play defense. The fact is we are terrible on both sides of the ball. Who the hell is TRob going to be stealing shots from? If he knocks in buckets at a 50% clip, then why are you complaining? Our team can't score efficiently to save their lives and you guys are mad that we picked up a high effenciecy scorer? This dude could become a monster 20-10 guy and you guys are mad because we didn't pick up someone more like Kawhi Leonard. It's just ridiculous the way you guys think.

If there was an SF available who was the 2nd best player in the draft, then I much rather would have had him. The fact is that there was no player like that so there's no use in complaining about it. You guys want role players to "stay out of the way" rather than potential big numbers stars. Who are the role players going to stay out of the way from? Thornton chucking up shots? Tyreke missing open jumpers? Cousins not finishing under the basket? We don't have some superstar like Wade, Lebron or Durant that can command the ball and have everyone stand back and role play off them.

Maybe we need some of our "stars" to be more like roleplayers to guys like TRob. I'm not saying he's going to be the second coming of Blake Griffin, but if he's anywhere close to where he's projected to be, he's instantly the 2nd best player on this team. It's much easier to find the Battiers and Wilson Chandlers of the league than it is to find the Griffins and Loves. Tyreke and Thornton don't have to be our first and second options just because were used to seeing that. If we can take shots away from them and have another player put them in at a higher efficiency, then I'm all for that. If we pick up an SF who can defend and shoot 3's, we help one of our weaknesses but we still have the core problems that will keep us from getting anywhere near the playoffs.

 

[IfAt1st]

MT is one of the only Kings that can score against real, 4th-quarter, pressure NBA defenses.
You can't trade him until you have someone else that can score in tight games.

The Kings main problem the past 3 years has been their lack of scoring (in fact, their entire offense falls apart) whenever the defense ratchets up the pressure.