What stage of the rebuild process are we at?
- Thread starter K F Jay
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Padrino
All-Star
who knows? demarcus cousins and tyreke evans are a great start, and marcus thornton and isaiah thomas make for good support, but how long will any of them be here before they walk in free agency or are traded on behalf of the maloofs' poor financial state?
we'll know the answer to your question this offseason, i suppose. there are, without question, free agents available that can help to fill in the kings' rather obvious gaps. so, are the maloofs willing to spend like they've said they want to? or is it all just a load of ****, and they're really just as broke as most of us believe them to be? a rebuilding situation with promise can turn disastrous really fast if ownership isn't willing to commit to the future of its team...
we'll know the answer to your question this offseason, i suppose. there are, without question, free agents available that can help to fill in the kings' rather obvious gaps. so, are the maloofs willing to spend like they've said they want to? or is it all just a load of ****, and they're really just as broke as most of us believe them to be? a rebuilding situation with promise can turn disastrous really fast if ownership isn't willing to commit to the future of its team...
Gary
All-Star
I would say we are about the same as we were last year. We have some decent pieces but we don't know if they all fit together yet. Next year should be spent seeing if they do. By trade deadline we should know which pieces do and do not fit.
Cousins should be the only King that's untradeable. Evans, MT, IT, Fredette, Salmons, JT and the others should be shopped if things aren't working out next season.
Cousins should be the only King that's untradeable. Evans, MT, IT, Fredette, Salmons, JT and the others should be shopped if things aren't working out next season.
Sac.1989
Starter
Id say were at the end of the rebuild. With another high draft pick and the right roster moves its time to switch to gaining experience as a unit and working towards the playoffs.
The position that must be sorted is SF. Remember we did chase AK and id like us to revisit that in the summer.
Obviously if MKG falls to us in the draft that sorts alot as does if we somehow land Davis. Hell you could play tyreke at the 3 still and do considerably better in terms of wins if we landed the first pick
The position that must be sorted is SF. Remember we did chase AK and id like us to revisit that in the summer.
Obviously if MKG falls to us in the draft that sorts alot as does if we somehow land Davis. Hell you could play tyreke at the 3 still and do considerably better in terms of wins if we landed the first pick
ParniValjak
All-Star
With the owners we do have, we will be in a constant rebuild cycle because they won't be able to keep the good players that they draft once they are up for renewal.
This is like the Clippers when they had Brand, Odom, Richardson et al only to have stingy Sterling blow that team up because it would cost too much.
This is like the Clippers when they had Brand, Odom, Richardson et al only to have stingy Sterling blow that team up because it would cost too much.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We are now a mess and there is a real danger. Last year we did not progress as we should have, but there were some explanations with Reke injured and Cuz too immature. Still, Omri did not progress, Donte did not progress, it was not until the saving Landry for Thornton trade that things got promising. Now this year we have AGAIN not progressed. We have again added one more talented player in IT, but unfortunately the decisions around doing so have neutered Reke, Cuz is on and off domiant, and we still aren't any better than we have been. I slide a lot of that at Petrie tearing out our steadying vets on both sides of the ball and bowing to the Maloofs Jimmermania, and even more at Smart, who is ****ing this franchise up wiht an awful philosophy that only makes 1 of his players better, and none better for long term success.
This summer is the danger zone. Lots of bad vibes, owner follies, guys contracts are coming up, we are on our 5th cheap coach in 6 years...this is dangerous now. We should have been approaching .500 at this point in the rebuild. We are not. And with all the pressures this is the prime time for us to make the msitake, really already partially made last summer, of losing faith in the rebuild and making a dumb move that cuts off our own future.
Here's the worst part. With our talent base and no more than 1 or 2 moves, if we hired a coach who always won I would almost guarantee you this team could win next year. We so desperately need that strong voice, and it is all that it would take, if we could convince somebody to come into such an unstable situation. But we just won't do it. Have just refused. And the longer we go withotu that voice and underaceive, the greater the chances become that either we start trading away our talent, or our talent starts to leave us. And that is just an incredible ****ing waste. Talentwise, I think at the end of last year we maybe the most talented roster in Sacramento era history outside the golden years. It just needed time and guidance. It hasn't gotten the guidance, now the question is if it is going to get the time.
This summer is the danger zone. Lots of bad vibes, owner follies, guys contracts are coming up, we are on our 5th cheap coach in 6 years...this is dangerous now. We should have been approaching .500 at this point in the rebuild. We are not. And with all the pressures this is the prime time for us to make the msitake, really already partially made last summer, of losing faith in the rebuild and making a dumb move that cuts off our own future.
Here's the worst part. With our talent base and no more than 1 or 2 moves, if we hired a coach who always won I would almost guarantee you this team could win next year. We so desperately need that strong voice, and it is all that it would take, if we could convince somebody to come into such an unstable situation. But we just won't do it. Have just refused. And the longer we go withotu that voice and underaceive, the greater the chances become that either we start trading away our talent, or our talent starts to leave us. And that is just an incredible ****ing waste. Talentwise, I think at the end of last year we maybe the most talented roster in Sacramento era history outside the golden years. It just needed time and guidance. It hasn't gotten the guidance, now the question is if it is going to get the time.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I hate to say it, but I think we're on a treadmill going nowhere. It all has to do with the clowns who own the team. They are just flailing around like a fly caught in a spider web. They just want to
"maintain" until they can get out of Sacto. That means a continuation of the lowest payroll in the league. That means no real FAs who can be difference makers.
I think Tyreke is going to be traded. If anything, his outside shot seems worse than his rookie year. I would expect him to be traded for another young player. I was thinking that if he got a miracle cure for his outside shot during the summer that the Kings would resign him. Now, I don't think it matters - they wouldn't be able to afford an outside shooting Tyreke Evans.
I would expect Jason Thompson to not be resigned. He's had how many coaches in his tenure as a King? Unbelievable instability he's had to endure. I think he's had it as a King. Probably the Kings get an ordinary pf to replace him.
Then we get a high draft pick, but other than Davis, the big names are very raw. It will take them some years to make a large impact imo. Unless, that is, we get one of the 2 guards that's available. Maybe that kind of player can make an impact with his outside shooting.
That leaves the same cast of characters. I think Cousins has improved. He's certaintly not an "adult" yet, but he's mid-way through adolescence now. IT is a very bright spot for this team, with his ability, work ethic, and leadership. Jimmer has a good work ethic, so along with IT, he should be better next year. MT is solid and is working on his game. Whiteside showed a few flashes. Maybe next year he can get solid backup minutes. T-Will is a player. Will he resign with the Kings? That's an open question.
In sum, the Kings probably will be a tad better next year, but it will probably be a stretch for them to get to .500. I'll probably have to change my signature......again.
"maintain" until they can get out of Sacto. That means a continuation of the lowest payroll in the league. That means no real FAs who can be difference makers.
I think Tyreke is going to be traded. If anything, his outside shot seems worse than his rookie year. I would expect him to be traded for another young player. I was thinking that if he got a miracle cure for his outside shot during the summer that the Kings would resign him. Now, I don't think it matters - they wouldn't be able to afford an outside shooting Tyreke Evans.
I would expect Jason Thompson to not be resigned. He's had how many coaches in his tenure as a King? Unbelievable instability he's had to endure. I think he's had it as a King. Probably the Kings get an ordinary pf to replace him.
Then we get a high draft pick, but other than Davis, the big names are very raw. It will take them some years to make a large impact imo. Unless, that is, we get one of the 2 guards that's available. Maybe that kind of player can make an impact with his outside shooting.
That leaves the same cast of characters. I think Cousins has improved. He's certaintly not an "adult" yet, but he's mid-way through adolescence now. IT is a very bright spot for this team, with his ability, work ethic, and leadership. Jimmer has a good work ethic, so along with IT, he should be better next year. MT is solid and is working on his game. Whiteside showed a few flashes. Maybe next year he can get solid backup minutes. T-Will is a player. Will he resign with the Kings? That's an open question.
In sum, the Kings probably will be a tad better next year, but it will probably be a stretch for them to get to .500. I'll probably have to change my signature......again.
Jose
Bench
I'm sorry if I'm being pessimistic, but we're stuck at the bottom for as long as the maloofs own the team. They've pretty much made it clear:
spend as little as possible (on players, coach, arena) + fans who support team no matter what + revenue sharing = profit
Doesn't matter if the team sucks and they play in the worst arena. All about the bottom line.
spend as little as possible (on players, coach, arena) + fans who support team no matter what + revenue sharing = profit
Doesn't matter if the team sucks and they play in the worst arena. All about the bottom line.
I'm with Jose on this one. At first I wondered if the Maloofs were just incompetent, going from one crappy coach to another. Now it's clear that they're not incompetent, but devious. Unfortunately, the aftermath will be a team with a chance to become a good San Antonio/OKC small-market winner ends up becoming LA Clippers, Northern Division. (Until Sterling decided to open up the pockets.)
This all ties into getting the best coach to help Evans and Cousins grow (don't tell me that Westphal and Smart have been the best to help Evans develop.), or spending on the right free agents to complement the team instead of going for pennies on the dollar in order to stay at the minimum level. I don't even blame Petrie, although I would probably resign as GM, knowing that I am able to fix the team, but I have to go by what the deviants tell me to do.
Smart could have lucked his way out with this lineup, but he decided to go small and chase wins (how did that work?) instead of develop a long term winning strategy, which YES, included Evans as a guard.
It's all ugly right now. I'll still support the team, but I know they're like a one-legged man in an ***-kicking contest right now, or like an upside-down turtle trying to right itself. It's not going to get better without some outside help.
Off topic but I always bought into the whole dynamic that Sacramento could never attract free agents because of its comparison to other cities. Now I have to wonder if free agents don't sign here partly due to horrible powerpoint presentations by the Maloofs along with their mental instability during negotiations.
Regressed. Some of our key talent has improved, some has stayed the same. But without stability its an ongoing cycle of players in and out and I'm starting to lose faith that those we have identified as keys to our long term success will stay around unless we can get the Maloofs out.
Not ready to fire Petrie, I would like to see him get a season or two with owners willing to spend and the team future not in doubt.
Not ready to fire Petrie, I would like to see him get a season or two with owners willing to spend and the team future not in doubt.
And here's where it gets really tough. The Maloofs have shown - as with Rick Adelman - that they cannot get along with a coach who actually knows what he's doing and refuses to kiss certain parts of their anatomy. Until/unless there is a drastic change, I simply cannot see them allowing the acquisition of a coach with the qualities you describe, since said coach would not cowtow to the Maloofs any more than Adelman did.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
What we have here is two different conversations. One is to look at the current team, judge its talent level, and decide what needs to be done going forward. Is the talent there good enough, that with a couple of key aquisitions, the team could compete for the playoffs? I think the answer to that question is Yes!..
That leads us to the second part of the conversation. Are the Maloof's, Petrie, or whoever is in charge of making the decisions, willing to bite the bullet, and spend the money necessary? The answer to that question is unkown. Based on recent history, one would think the answer is NO! With the Maloof's, its hard to predict what they'll do next. They've just created one of the biggest PR disastors in the history of the NBA. Certainlly not the way to up ticket sales.
If I'm the Maloof's, and I want to do whatever I can to repair the damage I've just done, then I lay low, say nothing for a while, and give Petrie the green light. Fans are, well, fans! Give them something to cheer about, and they ususally respond. Realize that I'm not talking about those of us on this fourm. There are a lot of very bright people on this fourm that supply as much information, and opinion as you'll get anywhere else. In other words, most of us are very informed on the current events relating to the team. Most of us are here because we're birds of a feather. Doesn't mean we don't have our differences, but there's a common bond between all of us.
However, I doubt you'll find that same bond among the people at the arena. Most just want to see an intertaining game, and hopefully a win. I would bet there are people there, that don't even know about the arena deal. And if so, don't care. And thats the audience the Maloof's have to play to. But are they intelligent enough to know that? Once again, judging on recent history, I would say the answer is no! But I guess we'll see.. In short, I agree with Bricky. This team could be very good with a couple of key moves. And, not only would those moves help the team, it would also help the Maloof's reshape their image to some extent. Don't get me wrong, I'll still think they're dirt bags. But then I'm in Ensenada, so I doubt they'll care what I think.
That leads us to the second part of the conversation. Are the Maloof's, Petrie, or whoever is in charge of making the decisions, willing to bite the bullet, and spend the money necessary? The answer to that question is unkown. Based on recent history, one would think the answer is NO! With the Maloof's, its hard to predict what they'll do next. They've just created one of the biggest PR disastors in the history of the NBA. Certainlly not the way to up ticket sales.
If I'm the Maloof's, and I want to do whatever I can to repair the damage I've just done, then I lay low, say nothing for a while, and give Petrie the green light. Fans are, well, fans! Give them something to cheer about, and they ususally respond. Realize that I'm not talking about those of us on this fourm. There are a lot of very bright people on this fourm that supply as much information, and opinion as you'll get anywhere else. In other words, most of us are very informed on the current events relating to the team. Most of us are here because we're birds of a feather. Doesn't mean we don't have our differences, but there's a common bond between all of us.
However, I doubt you'll find that same bond among the people at the arena. Most just want to see an intertaining game, and hopefully a win. I would bet there are people there, that don't even know about the arena deal. And if so, don't care. And thats the audience the Maloof's have to play to. But are they intelligent enough to know that? Once again, judging on recent history, I would say the answer is no! But I guess we'll see.. In short, I agree with Bricky. This team could be very good with a couple of key moves. And, not only would those moves help the team, it would also help the Maloof's reshape their image to some extent. Don't get me wrong, I'll still think they're dirt bags. But then I'm in Ensenada, so I doubt they'll care what I think.
Section 101
All-Star
The issue isn't the cheap coaches or expensive coaches. The issue is they missed on 2 coaches they interviewed and could of had in Brooks and Thibs.. Both of which by the way maybe meeting in the finals. Lets not forget the other choice they wanted that was a complete disaster in Rambis in Minny.
Maybe neither were willing to do what VF21 alluded to.
Section 101
All-Star
They could have signed either one. They went away from Brooks because the the ties to Muss. Thibs pulled out after they dragged their feet on hiring someone. Both would have taken the job if offered.
jcwkings
All-Star
we are worse than we were last year, aside from Cousins having natural progression. Tyreke still can't hit a jumpshot, and still doesn't have an NBA postion/role. We lost Dally and our interior defense is terrible. Isaiah has essentially taken the role of Beno, but in turn has taken the ball out of Tyreke's hands. Salmons, Garcia, Greene, Honeycutt, Outlaw all play the same position, all are mediocre ball players. Chuck Hayes is almost useless(hopefully because of injury?). Jason Thompson had a couple of weeks of great basketball, should that be enough to bring him back? Jimmer has been less than impressive, im willing to give him a couple more years to show more, but at this point Knight, Klay Thompson, Alec Burks, Leonard, Shumpert, Faried look like better pro's than him. We fired a terrible coach and gave the job to a Nelly disciple, even extended him through next year.
Positives:
+ Cousins has progressed, potential superstar
+ Isaiah Thomas, steal
+ Marcus Thornton (has played to his contract, good value signing)
Negatives
- Beno trade looks terrible
- Hickson trade was terrible
- Tyreke still cant shoot
-Tyreke continues to switch positions/role every week
-Jimmer is looking like a bad pick (still needs time)
- Chuck Hayes signing
- Dalembert not signing
- Outlaw signing
- Maloofs
-Arena situation
- Roster is an imbalanced mess
-only players on team with any quality/worth are Cousins, Tyreke, Thornton, Isaiah, Jimmer, JT? rest are scrubs
This franchise has regressed terribly
Positives:
+ Cousins has progressed, potential superstar
+ Isaiah Thomas, steal
+ Marcus Thornton (has played to his contract, good value signing)
Negatives
- Beno trade looks terrible
- Hickson trade was terrible
- Tyreke still cant shoot
-Tyreke continues to switch positions/role every week
-Jimmer is looking like a bad pick (still needs time)
- Chuck Hayes signing
- Dalembert not signing
- Outlaw signing
- Maloofs
-Arena situation
- Roster is an imbalanced mess
-only players on team with any quality/worth are Cousins, Tyreke, Thornton, Isaiah, Jimmer, JT? rest are scrubs
This franchise has regressed terribly
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
Lets not forget all the hype about bringing AK47 in, which might have been nice had we not lost Dalembert in the process. Losing him along with Hickson not working out left us with nothing on the interior. Now, once DMC and JT get a couple fouls, we have to play small ball...which throws Smart into a gambling tizzy to find decent lineups. If we had Dalembert it would give our team a whole different look, but the Maloof/Petrie HAD to get Hayes and make us even smaller...not that he's really given us anything useful for his six million $'s a year.
rekehavoc73186
G-League
i voted progressed a bit. We have the core of players to become a good team we just need more role players that can hit the open shot and play defense. This off season is going to be huge. We need to have a great off season and hope all our current players get better while reke and dmc take a huge step in devolpment. Reke absolutely needs a reliable jump shot next season or we will probably trade him.
I'm sorry to sidetrack a good discussion with a glib response, but this is what comes to mind when I ponder that question:
Are we going down or up? Your guess is as good as mine at this point.
You've seen the game threads-we travel through most circles in just a few hours...
You've seen the game threads-we travel through most circles in just a few hours...
Ha! True that!
mr. moustache
Bench
Denial or grief I think.
