What I think the Kings management is doing

[Catalyst]

Judging from the comments by the owners and Geoff Petrie, I think the Kings management is waiting for their team to get healthy to really decide what they have, and go from there.

Petrie is a guy that preaches patience, and I think the Maloofs do a nice job of listening to him.

That said, I think even Petrie is realizing what this team is, and isn't, and starting to make some evaluations on what their future holds.

If the Kings do not start winning by mid- or late-January, I expect to see some changes.

That may mean some players are dumped for draft picks and not much else. And considering the plethora of big men in the 2007 draft, that might not be a bad place to start.

I kind of feel mid- or late-January is the time because the trade deadline will be about a month away then.

It's best to shop around when you have time on your side, and it's also good to give your team time on the floor to see exactly what you have.

Up till this point, the Kings have been hit pretty hard by injuries to their top players, and it looks like Ron Artest is still banged up.

Now, these guys are (mostly) healthy -- with the exception of Artest -- and showing what they're capable of.

Most people think this is a mediocre team, and I think the management knows this, but they're also finding it out first hand instead of pulling the trigger too quickly.

Anyway, I feel if things continue down this same path, you're going to see Petrie pull the trigger on something come early February, either a salary dump/draft pick thing, or trying to find another piece of the team.

 

[piksi]

Judging from the comments by the owners and Geoff Petrie, I think the Kings management is waiting for their team to get healthy to really decide what they have, and go from there.

physically or mentally ?

 

[ezekielbear]

Up till this point, the Kings have been hit pretty hard by injuries to their top players

When haven't we? They're going to be waiting a long time until a Kings team is healthy.

 

[DaMan]

When haven't we? They're going to be waiting a long time until a Kings team is healthy.

I hate injury exuses because other teams play with injuries and they still manage with a decent record. Lakers with the Odom, Houston with out yao and so on.

 

[Catalyst]

When haven't we? They're going to be waiting a long time until a Kings team is healthy.

Ezekiel Bear, out of curiosity, what do you think Kings management is doing?

Does what I said make sense to you? As in, do you think it's the case.

 

[VF21]

Judging from the comments by the owners and Geoff Petrie, I think the Kings management is waiting for their team to get healthy to really decide what they have, and go from there.

Petrie is a guy that preaches patience, and I think the Maloofs do a nice job of listening to him.

That said, I think even Petrie is realizing what this team is, and isn't, and starting to make some evaluations on what their future holds.

If the Kings do not start winning by mid- or late-January, I expect to see some changes.

That may mean some players are dumped for draft picks and not much else. And considering the plethora of big men in the 2007 draft, that might not be a bad place to start.

I kind of feel mid- or late-January is the time because the trade deadline will be about a month away then.

It's best to shop around when you have time on your side, and it's also good to give your team time on the floor to see exactly what you have.

Up till this point, the Kings have been hit pretty hard by injuries to their top players, and it looks like Ron Artest is still banged up.

Now, these guys are (mostly) healthy -- with the exception of Artest -- and showing what they're capable of.

Most people think this is a mediocre team, and I think the management knows this, but they're also finding it out first hand instead of pulling the trigger too quickly.

Anyway, I feel if things continue down this same path, you're going to see Petrie pull the trigger on something come early February, either a salary dump/draft pick thing, or trying to find another piece of the team.

I think you've made some valid points, Catalyst. Between the defeatist body language Musselman was showing on the bench tonight and the mounting frustration I'm sure the Maloofs are feeling, the whole patience thing may just about be over...

If we have more of games like tonight to look forward to, then it's time to bite the bullet and do whatever it takes at the best time possible to get this whole thing turned around and going back in the right direction.

All I know is it's painful to watch so I can't even begin to imagine how painful it is to be a part of...

 

[Bricklayer]

Enough of Petrie's "patience". Its just an excuse for bureaucratric paralysis at a certain point. If he can't see what we are, and more critically aren't at this point, then he just flat out sucks. It was his "patience" over the offseason that got us to this point in the first place. Its just an excuse. And a bad one at that. If I can see it, and he cannot, then frankly I'll cheerfully take his salary and comfy office. I could certainly stand there at $30,000 a night wacthing tedious game after tedious game eternally "evaluating" the same drab undersized talent I had accumulated for years now with the best of them. Sign me the bleep up.

Either Geoff already knows, is already trying, or we're in very bad hands indeed.

 

[VF21]

I honestly think he knows and has been trying. I honestly think he believed Musselman would do a better job than he's done so far. I honestly think Petrie thought a lot of things would go better than they have so far. I've said before and I'll repeat that I think he's been working towards a goal, although I cannot even begin to imagine what it is.

I think he hoped they could limp along until he could get the pieces in place to make the moves that need to be made to bring this team back onto the right path. Unfortunately, I think too many things have turned out almost exactly opposite...

I just cannot think of something Petrie could do at this point that would make it all better. We're gonna have to suffer through this bad spot to get to the other side.

At least that's what I think right now... I don't believe Petrie is a fool. So it follows that I have to believe there is some purpose or sense behind what's happening and we're just not privvy to it.

 

[Catalyst]

I would like to add... Petrie in the past has shown A LOT of patience with the Kings.

When you pull the trigger on a trade, it's done. No going back.

With this in mind, it seems pretty logical to hold on to your pieces until you know what you have and evaluate it from there.

If you rush to trade a player that could end up being huge in your rebuilding efforts -- you're shooting yourself in the foot.

Young, talented players are a wonderful commodity, but they usually need veteran players to learn from.

You see a lot of NBA teams that flounder with too much youth, and just can't seem to get it together.

A lot of times it's extremely helpful to have a veteran player who will be able to teach these new guys a lot about the game and will also be patient and work with them.

Having a veteran with a good head on his shoulders and a strong heart and a willingness to stick around through a rebuild can be a big asset.

And, that's not the kind of thing you want to trade away without a second thought.

 

[kennadog]

So it follows that I have to believe there is some purpose or sense behind what's happening and we're just not privvy to it.

Its either that or I have to start getting drunk.

 

[GoGoGadget]

I honestly think he knows and has been trying.

May be the case, but doesn't change anything. If he knows and he's been trying, then he's either been trying the wrong things or failing at the right ones.

Sorry, but as this ugliness keeps chugging along, Petrie's reputation for brilliance is getting to be as specious as Arco's sellout streak.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

May be the case, but doesn't change anything. If he knows and he's been trying, then he's either been trying the wrong things or failing at the right ones.

Sorry, but as this ugliness keeps chugging along, Petrie's reputation for brilliance is getting to be as specious as Arco's sellout streak.

QFT

 

[bibbinator]

I've been wondering if the weird rotations have had something to do with featuring players in order to a) see what they've got and b) increase their trade interest/value.

I'd like to see Petrie come up with at least 2-3 first round picks. The only untouchables would be KM, Garcia and Douby.

 

[VF21]

May be the case, but doesn't change anything. If he knows and he's been trying, then he's either been trying the wrong things or failing at the right ones.

Sorry, but as this ugliness keeps chugging along, Petrie's reputation for brilliance is getting to be as specious as Arco's sellout streak.

If you notice, there are virtually no trades going down right now. I think we may see some action after Jan. 5. But I could be delusional ... and looking for some little shred of hope to hold onto.

 

[GoGoGadget]

If you notice, there are virtually no trades going down right now. I think we may see some action after Jan. 5. But I could be delusional ... and looking for some little shred of hope to hold onto.

That might be well and true, but I believe the chinks in Petrie's armor started showing before November 1, 2006. The problems that are showing up at this point (with the exceptions of Mike's super-slump) should not have been a surprise.

 

[walker60]

Enough of Petrie's "patience". Its just an excuse for bureaucratric paralysis at a certain point. If he can't see what we are, and more critically aren't at this point, then he just flat out sucks. It was his "patience" over the offseason that got us to this point in the first place. Its just an excuse. And a bad one at that. If I can see it, and he cannot, then frankly I'll cheerfully take his salary and comfy office. I could certainly stand there at $30,000 a night wacthing tedious game after tedious game eternally "evaluating" the same drab undersized talent I had accumulated for years now with the best of them. Sign me the bleep up.

Either Geoff already knows, is already trying, or we're in very bad hands indeed.

Calm down. The trade deadline isn't until February. Goodness.

 

[tyrant]

they have no idea what they're doing.

1.empty bench
2.undersized power forward
3.miller plays like he's 6ft tall. how many rebounds did he have last night.

why be patient? we've had all 3 issues last year leading into our postseason matchup against the spurs. i love this team to death, but lately going out of my way to catch these games at sports bars isnt worth a 2nd thought. it's bonkers

 

[tyrant]

let me add this. brad miller did help us last night. think he had 15 points and 5 assists. doing his usual thing. i just wanted to point that out. but he only had 4 reb and 0 blocks i think.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Enough of Petrie's "patience". Its just an excuse for bureaucratric paralysis at a certain point. If he can't see what we are, and more critically aren't at this point, then he just flat out sucks. It was his "patience" over the offseason that got us to this point in the first place. Its just an excuse. And a bad one at that. If I can see it, and he cannot, then frankly I'll cheerfully take his salary and comfy office. I could certainly stand there at $30,000 a night wacthing tedious game after tedious game eternally "evaluating" the same drab undersized talent I had accumulated for years now with the best of them. Sign me the bleep up.

Either Geoff already knows, is already trying, or we're in very bad hands indeed.

Wait a minute, aren't you the driver of the "Let's Build Through the Draft" bandwagon? That DEMANDS patience.

My how quickly a fan's mind can swing

 

[tyrant]

Wait a minute, aren't you the driver of the "Let's Build Through the Draft" bandwagon? That DEMANDS patience.

My how quickly a fan's mind can swing

we lost to a team that mike bibby has owned since birth. i think brick is pretty fed up.

 

[Bricklayer]

Wait a minute, aren't you the driver of the "Let's Build Through the Draft" bandwagon? That DEMANDS patience.

My how quickly a fan's mind can swing

Hardly.

It demands intelligence and a plan. And we have neither. You have to "build" to build through the draft. Have to prepare for that losing season just as much as you prepare for a winning one. STILL have to make moves -- they are just different moves aimed a different goal.

We aren't losing because of a plan. We are losing because of the FAILURE of our plan, or perhaps more likely because we have been too chicken**** to develop a real rebuilding plan and just keep on patching and patching and lying to both ourselves and our fans. I have zilch desire to see us go out and make another stupid patching move to try to make a run at #8 and say "see fans! We are still a winnng team at 42-40!" Its insulting how stupid they think we are. I very MUCH have a desire to see us suck it up and get a clue and start working on an actual plan for the future.


People's desperate need to cling to the myth of Petrie's infallible genius never fails to amaze me. One does wonder can it EVER be his fault? Or no matter who he hires or acquires is it always those guys' fault in every circumstance? When you have no direction and no apparent plan who do you blame now? The cleaning lady? Geoff either gets it and is simply failing to correct it, for whatever reason, or he doesn't get it. Those are your options.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Hardly.

It demands intelligence and a plan. And we have neither. You have to "build" to build through the draft. Have to prepare for that losing season just as much as you prepare for a winning one. STILL have to make moves -- they are just different moves aimed a different goal.

We aren't losing because of a plan. We are losing because of the FAILURE of our plan, or perhaps more likely because we have been too chicken**** to develop a real rebuilding plan and just keep on patching and patching and lying to both ourselves and our fans. I have zilch desire to see us go out and make another stupid patching move to try to make a run at #8 and say "see fans! We are still a winnng team at 42-40!" Its insulting how stupid they think we are. I very MUCH have a desire to see us suck it up and get a clue and start working on an actual plan for the future.

People's desperate need to cling to the myth of Petrie's infallible genius never fails to amaze me. One does wonder can it EVER be his fault? Or no matter who he hires or acquires is it always those guys' fault in every circumstance? When you have no direction and no apparent plan who do you blame now? The cleaning lady? Geoff either gets it and is simply failing to correct it, for whatever reason, or he doesn't get it. Those are your options.

First of all, I don't claim that Petrie is a genius. It's his moves that force us to go into rebuilding mode in the first place. I recognize that this product is a losing team, and that is none other than Petrie's fault. Just so we're clear.

Now, I'm a firm believer in the "Superstars win championships" theory, and that great teams are built around them. Looking at this roster, I don't see any franchise piece worth building around. We have great complimentary pieces (Martin, Bibby, Miller) that you build AROUND a superstar with, but you can't build around a "core" of them, another Petrie mistake. Since these franchise pieces are moved so infrequently, our best chance of landing one is the draft.

Moving players for draft picks and expirings before we even have a franchise piece is, IMO, planning to fail. There is no guaruntee that once we have our core man that the right players are just going to fall into our laps. Especially looking at next year's weak free agency class, not many good pieces worth going after.

Once we have said superstar, then you see what pieces fit and which ones don't. It's all trial and error. You can't start building around an imaginary star of whom you have no idea what is strengths and weaknesses are. Contenders aren't built in a year; pieces can't just be put together in one offseason and expect to work.

I think that's why we're not seeing any moves yet, but it's all subjective. I can accept there being no plan yet for now. If that continues, however, into next season, then I'll be worried.

 

[GoGoGadget]

I think that's why we're not seeing any moves yet, but it's all subjective. I can accept there being no plan yet for now. If that continues, however, into next season, then I'll be worried.

There's never any excuse to not have a plan. Ever. Even if you're winning championships.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

There's never any excuse to not have a plan. Ever. Even if you're winning championships.

How can you have a plan for a franchise without a superstar? I don't call "Get a superstar" a plan, if that's what you mean.

 

[GoGoGadget]

How can you have a plan for a franchise without a superstar? I don't call "Get a superstar" a plan, if that's what you mean.

Why not? Other people are getting/developing them, why is it somehow unrealistic or impossible that we could get one, too?

Seriously, there's no excuse for this. If Geoff Petrie is sitting in an office somewhere with the attitude that there's no sense in hatching a plan because, golly, we don't have a superstar, he's not doing his job. Sitting on your hands and not coming up with a plan is, as Brick suggested last night, something that anyone can do. Hell, I'm doing it right now. Why not pay me millions of dollars and give me front row seats?

If a superstar is what you need, you make a plan to get one. If a shotblocker is what you need, you make a plan to get one. If a three-legged dog with a record player and a funny hat is what you need, you make a plan to get one. You don't sit around with your eyes shut and your fingers crossed and wish really hard for your collection of kinda, sorta, okay-but-not-great 6'7" whatevers to magically turn into any of those things. These are all issues that have been developing, and have been quite obvious, for a couple of seasons now. Where's the correction? Where's the evidence of even the smallest attempt at a legitimate correction?

No more bleeping excuses.

 

[CruzDude]

The end of 2006 and for once, some sober comments (for the most part) about the current plight of the Kings. Last night seemed everyone had a touch of the flu, stomach and otherwise. (I felt a bit sick in my stomach watching them.) But Kevin is not 100% after his bout with flu and neither is SAR. I'll give Ron Ron the benefit of the doubt about his knees and back.... but it was the Clippers and I didn't see any examples of his capabilities. More like he didn't want to show them what he could do as he may not want to go down there.

My real issue is with KT: he gets his rebounds early in first Q then disappears. So did the rest. But I agree that we need to be patient first and give it a month more to see where they are going and what possibilities there are. As some one above said there are no quick fixes out there.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Why not? Other people are getting/developing them, why is it somehow unrealistic or impossible that we could get one, too?

Seriously, there's no excuse for this. If Geoff Petrie is sitting in an office somewhere with the attitude that there's no sense in hatching a plan because, golly, we don't have a superstar, he's not doing his job. Sitting on your hands and not coming up with a plan is, as Brick suggested last night, something that anyone can do. Hell, I'm doing it right now. Why not pay me millions of dollars and give me front row seats?

If a superstar is what you need, you make a plan to get one. If a shotblocker is what you need, you make a plan to get one. If a three-legged dog with a record player and a funny hat is what you need, you make a plan to get one. You don't sit around with your eyes shut and your fingers crossed and wish really hard for your collection of kinda, sorta, okay-but-not-great 6'7" whatevers to magically turn into any of those things. These are all issues that have been developing, and have been quite obvious, for a couple of seasons now. Where's the correction? Where's the evidence of even the smallest attempt at a legitimate correction?

No more bleeping excuses.

That's what I'm saying, we need a superstar. But we don't snap our fingers and one lands in our lap. You act like any half-brained idiot could land one if he put his mind to it. Show some me some evidence that you comprehend that.

I'm not going to defend Petrie for his failed belief that the "core" can make up for the lack of a superstar. That was a boneheaded move and has killed our team.

However, Superstars are acquired through trades and drafts. And they are traded once every blue moon. We got lucky with Webb. We got lucky with Mitch. Our best hope is the draft, and thanks to Petrie's insistance on mediocrity, our lowest draft pick in the last 3 years has been #19. You're not going to find a superstar at the 19th pick.

We can sit here and "plan" all day long. In the end, it means getting a superstar from the draft, and that always comes after sucking.

 

[GoGoGadget]

That's what I'm saying, we need a superstar. But we don't snap our fingers and one lands in our lap. You act like any half-brained idiot could land one if he put his mind to it. Show some me some evidence that you comprehend that.

No ****. That's why you make a plan to get one.

I'm not going to defend Petrie for his failed belief that the "core" can make up for the lack of a superstar. That was a boneheaded move and has killed our team.

However, Superstars are acquired through trades and drafts. And they are traded once every blue moon. We got lucky with Webb. We got lucky with Mitch. Our best hope is the draft, and thanks to Petrie's insistance on mediocrity, our lowest draft pick in the last 3 years has been #19. You're not going to find a superstar at the 19th pick.

We can sit here and "plan" all day long. In the end, it means getting a superstar from the draft, and that always comes after sucking.

In that case, it's time to make a plan to facilitate the necessary suckage.

 

[Bricklayer]

We can sit here and "plan" all day long. In the end, it means getting a superstar from the draft, and that always comes after sucking.

And oddly you come back around to the very problem -- we have no PLAN to suck. And I actually sit here nervous that our not getting it GM is going to go make another patching move in a desperate attempt NOT to suck, and hence to avoid any possibility of getting a superstar. To draw out the "semi suck" mediocrity for another year, and another and another, because he won't just turn the corner, plan for the suck, try to nab that star, and get to the real rebuilding. You are right that its very tough to rebuild without one. But in which case intentionally hiring piles of mediocre vets with just enough talent to deny you both any chance at being good as well as any chance at landing a superstar to start over with is just dumb.

 

[BigWaxer]

And I actually sit here nervous that our not getting it GM is going to go make another patching move in a desperate attempt NOT to suck,

Exactly, and I am most worried that we are going to trade a Bibby away who (hopefully opts out, if not only one more, I take that gamble) for another medicore player but that player has 5 more years left on his deal.

At this point, we are not seeing a plan, have to agree. This is exactly and gonna cross sports here. What the Giants and Sabs is doing. What the Raiders are doing, what gonna say my team... The Cowboys are doing. At some point if your end goal is a ring, you have to say this is not working, lets start from scratch.