What does Peja have to do in order to get the max?
- Thread starter yanon
- Start date
loopymitch
All-Star
He'll probably get it anyway from someone but he could start by doing basketball at home.
Originally Posted by Crvena Zvezda
This is what he needs:
G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
81 81 40.3 .480 .433 .927 1.1 5.1 6.3 2.1 1.33 .17 1.89 2.00 24.2
Look Faimiliar?
One thing I notice is that he played 40.3 minutes per game during that season. Those numbers would be more meaningful if he got them in 36 minutes of playing time. Too many minutes during the regular season leaving him with very little energy for the playoff. Anyway, even Peja's best year is below my expectation of a max guy. He still needs to average one more rebound and one more assist in addition to performing at equal or higher level during the playoff to get that kind of money.
This is what he needs:
G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
81 81 40.3 .480 .433 .927 1.1 5.1 6.3 2.1 1.33 .17 1.89 2.00 24.2
Look Faimiliar?
One thing I notice is that he played 40.3 minutes per game during that season. Those numbers would be more meaningful if he got them in 36 minutes of playing time. Too many minutes during the regular season leaving him with very little energy for the playoff. Anyway, even Peja's best year is below my expectation of a max guy. He still needs to average one more rebound and one more assist in addition to performing at equal or higher level during the playoff to get that kind of money.
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kingsfan916
Starter
He needs to score over 24pts, 4rebs and 3asts to get 8-10mill
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
My general complaint with a great amny posters and hence almost every thread like this is that many people fail to discriminate between reality and their own opinion on how reality SHOULD work. If we simply take the thread at face value the answer is simple and only one response was necessary. "Nothing." I doubt if any one would argue or even discuss the REALITY that Pedja baring great unforseen circumstances WILL be offered max money by at least one team in the NBA.
Now if the intent of the thred is to discuss what it would take for him to be DESERVING of max money in our minds that might be fertile grounds for discussion. If you look back at which players have historically gotten huge contracts (remember the concept of max money is very new) these have always been players that can singlehandeldy take over a game and were more or less "unstopable" So jsut for the sake of argument I'd say Pedja would ahve to average 20+ points a game, hit several game wining shots over the course of the season and on a nightly basiss make ALL defenders look like they are in freeze frame, and yes that includes Bruce Bowen and Ron Artest. As a team leader I'd expect him to personaly take it upon him self to adress soem of the TEAM weakness espcialy rebounds. Come paly off's his production will need to go up in all areas (percentage, scoreing, steals, and rebounds)
Now if the intent of the thred is to discuss what it would take for him to be DESERVING of max money in our minds that might be fertile grounds for discussion. If you look back at which players have historically gotten huge contracts (remember the concept of max money is very new) these have always been players that can singlehandeldy take over a game and were more or less "unstopable" So jsut for the sake of argument I'd say Pedja would ahve to average 20+ points a game, hit several game wining shots over the course of the season and on a nightly basiss make ALL defenders look like they are in freeze frame, and yes that includes Bruce Bowen and Ron Artest. As a team leader I'd expect him to personaly take it upon him self to adress soem of the TEAM weakness espcialy rebounds. Come paly off's his production will need to go up in all areas (percentage, scoreing, steals, and rebounds)
KP
Starter
How bout something like this...
70 70 40.5 .481 .071 .703 2.6 8.5 11.1 4.2 1.33 1.69 2.79 3.20 27.1
Webbers numbers from 2001 ... 27, 11, and 4, near 2 blocks too.
--Peja isn't even in the same stratosphere and people still to this day ***** about Webbs max deal, of course it's a different landscape in the NBA these days...
70 70 40.5 .481 .071 .703 2.6 8.5 11.1 4.2 1.33 1.69 2.79 3.20 27.1
Webbers numbers from 2001 ... 27, 11, and 4, near 2 blocks too.
--Peja isn't even in the same stratosphere and people still to this day ***** about Webbs max deal, of course it's a different landscape in the NBA these days...
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G_M
Starter
KP said:
I don't really recall too many people bitching about Webb's contract. Although, given the lack of teams pursuing him I think the Kings overpaid. But, they did the same thing with Bibby and Christie. I don't recall another team making an offer close to the max for Webber. There weren't many teams with that type of cap room at the time.
The difference with Peja is that skills and heart aside the market at this time is different. There will be teams lining up to make him offers. I'm not sure about "MAX" offers but unless he is injured it's hard to imagine there won't be some high dollar offers coming in.
G_M
Starter
KP said:
Seriously, people on this board were bitching at the time of the deal??? I've been here for a long time and I just don't remember that!! People may have bitched once he got hurt, but it just had to be done.
To me it was just the Maloofs throwing some love his way and partial overcompensation driven by small market anxiety.
KP
Starter
We've had our Webber conversations more than once GM so I'll just let it go but seriously man you even bitched a little about it in your last two posts.
IMO, Peja has to be a player somewhat on the level of what Webber was to earn a Max deal... even if the market means he might end up leaving, if he's not the undisputed best player on the team it would be foolish in the long run to lock him up. It's not like we don't have a long history of Peja on the Kings to look at. If he does something like he did a couple of years ago, then we could talk about it making sense. Just cuz some other teams might overpay him... I mean come on... If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you do it too?
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G_M
Starter
KP said:We've had our Webber conversations more than once GM so I'll just let it go but seriously man you even bitched a little about it in your last two posts.IMO, Peja has to be a player somewhat on the level of what Webber was to earn a Max deal... even if the market means he might end up leaving, if he's not the undisputed best player on the team it would be foolish in the long wrong to lock him up. It's not like we don't have a long history of Peja on the Kings to look at. If he does something like he did a couple of years ago, then we could talk about it making sense. Just cuz some other teams might overpay him... I mean come on... If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you do it too?
Whatever my position on the Webber trade was I never complained at the time the Kings signed him to his deal. Again, I think part of it was attempting to make him the FRANCHISE and as good faith giving him the MAX. The Maloofs said they would give him a MAX deal long before the season even ended. Remember the snappy billboards about lawns being mowed.
I'm not going to make a case that Peja based on performance deserves a MAX deal from the Kings. I'm saying that given current market conditions there may be teams throwing crazy money at him.
mr. moustache
Bench
Ditto. Max players isn't a subjective thing. Anyone who's paid the max is a max player. Penny? Max player. Webber? Max player.
HndsmCelt said:
G_M,
Like it or not, Webber was the "man" back when the Kings were still a title contender. It is not uncommon to pay star big men the max since they can usually produce in more than one areas. Webber at one time was a 20+/10/5 guy and drew double coverage more than any other Kings player. Yes, the Kings overpaid a little for Webber but the Kings were the doormat team before he got there. Bibby is in the similar boat when he almost single handly killed the Lakers during the playoff and the Kings were on the cusp of winning it all those few years. So, I can understand the management's rationale in signing Bibby for the max. Basically, they didn't have much option but to keep a good thing going.
The Kings' current circumstance is much different now when comparing to a few years ago. They are not a title contender and Peja is a one trick pony who is in his prime already (not much upside). Thus, it is not a smart move to sign him for the max.
Like it or not, Webber was the "man" back when the Kings were still a title contender. It is not uncommon to pay star big men the max since they can usually produce in more than one areas. Webber at one time was a 20+/10/5 guy and drew double coverage more than any other Kings player. Yes, the Kings overpaid a little for Webber but the Kings were the doormat team before he got there. Bibby is in the similar boat when he almost single handly killed the Lakers during the playoff and the Kings were on the cusp of winning it all those few years. So, I can understand the management's rationale in signing Bibby for the max. Basically, they didn't have much option but to keep a good thing going.
The Kings' current circumstance is much different now when comparing to a few years ago. They are not a title contender and Peja is a one trick pony who is in his prime already (not much upside). Thus, it is not a smart move to sign him for the max.
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KP
Starter
A day before the season even starts, I think it's fitting. Seriously though, how can you have a conversation about the Kings giving ANY player the max without talking about the last player they gave one to. I think some good points were being made on both sides and it hasn't gotten out of hand... yet.VF21 said:I was wondering how long it would take...
Okay, whomever has Oct. 31 in the "On what day will the old Webber-Peja argument be resurrected" poll is a winner.
Contact me for your prize.
KP said:Seriously though, how can you have a conversation about the Kings giving ANY player the max without talking about the last player they gave one to. I think some good points were being made on both sides and it hasn't gotten out of hand... yet.
You're right...so far.
What led to Webber getting the max back then is NOT applicable to Peja getting the max now, IMHO. Times change; situations change; players change.
Peja has never been as important to this franchise - bottom line - as Chris Webber was. That's not hyperbole; it's fact, plain and simple.
Webber isn't a King any longer. I just do not want to have to live through another round of what happened last time. It wasn't pleasant...
KP
Starter
Like I said before we shouldn't pay the max to a player that we can't even tell is the best player on the team. No matter what the climate, that's my only point. We have 5 guys capable of being second tier guys now, losing one of them would not hurt us enough to make it worth throwing money away. If Peja shows he is a 1st tier Superstar then it's a different story. I still think he may have the talent to be, it's all about desire with him.VF21 said:
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yanon said:
Peja will get a max contract or something pretty close to it , even if he has a above average season. A better question would be, What would he have to do to deserve a max contract.
Well the answer to that is - just act like a 6'10" man and stop being a softie. And that's like asking him to be someone he isn't.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
I repeat: What team is going to give max money to Peja next summer?
I feel like a lot of posters have locked on to that idea without thinking about it and working things out. What teams are under the cap next summer? I've already talked about Atlanta and Chicago, and why or why not things could work out with them. I think we need to be more rational about this.
I feel like a lot of posters have locked on to that idea without thinking about it and working things out. What teams are under the cap next summer? I've already talked about Atlanta and Chicago, and why or why not things could work out with them. I think we need to be more rational about this.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Okay, going through guaranteed team salaries for next year, the teams that seem maybe one minor move or less away from being able to offer max:
(Estimated cap 06-07: $50+mil)
Utah $41.5mil
Clippers -- $40mil
Hornets -- $31mil
Bulls -- $29mil
Hawks -- $25mil
Bobcats -- $22mil
Bulls still seem by far the biggest threat, but all you have to do is get any one of those teams to play the game with you to put pressure on us. Also note: if Toronto gets lucky with guys opting out of contracts they could get down to about $36mil. Doubt they get that lucky though unless those players are idiots. Note II: If Boston dumps Pierce on one of the babove teams with caproom, then Boston could be down to about $37mil itself.
(Estimated cap 06-07: $50+mil)
Utah $41.5mil
Clippers -- $40mil
Hornets -- $31mil
Bulls -- $29mil
Hawks -- $25mil
Bobcats -- $22mil
Bulls still seem by far the biggest threat, but all you have to do is get any one of those teams to play the game with you to put pressure on us. Also note: if Toronto gets lucky with guys opting out of contracts they could get down to about $36mil. Doubt they get that lucky though unless those players are idiots. Note II: If Boston dumps Pierce on one of the babove teams with caproom, then Boston could be down to about $37mil itself.
ParniValjak
All-Star
While our on court situation is much different to the time when Maloofs paid a bit more for the players than they were worth, there is one thing that remains the same and will continue to stay the same.yanon said:
Sacramento is a small market and as such it will find it tough to get the good players over without offering more money than other teams would. Yes Webber, Divac, Doug etc have put Sacramento on the map BUT while we are still a pretty good team that wins a lot of regular season games, we still aren't that attractive as a destination. Who was the last big name player that actually wanted to come to Sacramento as his first choice????? It was Vlade Divac and as much as I love Divac as one of my all time favourite players he got a bigger contract than he probably deserved back then. Without that big a contract, it very unlikely that he would have come.
Lets not forget that Abdur-Rahim had Nets as his first choice but settled on Sacramento when the trade fell through.
Bonzi Wells wanted to come to Sacramento but that not because he loved the place or the team. It was because he knew this was the best team for him to go to to build up his market value in a contract year. He knows that a lot of "cancers" have come to Sacramento and done well, somewhat transformed their character and got long term deals elsewhere. If Bonzi didn't have the baggage, its very unlikely that he would have chosen Sacramento. That my opinion but it also has some logic behind it.
Going back a couple of years, some people argued that we even paid over the odds for Miller in terms of his salary. Fair call. We offers him some $5 million more because that was the only way we could attract player of his caliber to the organisation. This is in no way a reflexion on the people running the kings or their fans. Far from it. This is just a reality of being a small market where you are not on level playing field with other big market teams.
Back to over-paying players. In a perfect world, Peja never has been and never will be a MAX type player. In a perfect world there is only maybe 6 or so players in the league that are worth the MAX deal. However, NBA is far from perfect world and the way the whole thing is structured, the market determines the players worth. Not fans. In order for Sacramento to get quality players or keep quality players, they will always need to pay a bit more than players might be worth in order to get him. Thats just the way it is.
On his production alone, Peja is about $10 Million per season sort of player but we all know that the market will dictate that his value will be more than he is worth in a perfect world. There aren't many quality players in the FA pool next year and Peja is probably one of the better ones so he is more than likely going to get the max and I still think it will be from the Kings.
In a perfect world players like Michael Redd and Joe Johnson would never be worth the MAX. Not in a million years. But in a wierd and abnormal market like the NBA someone was prepared to pay them that.
Kings will pay Peja the max for a couple of reasons. He is one of their best players that they can't afford to lose for nothing. Kings lose big time if Peja walks and signs with some other team and because of the small market factor where they will always be forced to pay more for a player than they are worth for as long as Kings stay in Sacramento. Its just life in a small market.
ParniValjak
All-Star
They don't have to under the slary cap to offer him the max. They just have to have some moveable pieces. If Peja says, I want out of sacramento and I want to go there, if you won't accomodate a trade I am going to Chicago or Atlanta and you get nothing, do you see Petrie and Maloofs letting Peja walk in that scenario?????LPKingsFan said:
I don't.
Miami has the sort of players it can trade for Peja who would fit like a glove there. Then there is a very appealing situation in Chicago for Peja. He reunites with a coach that he loves playing for. He goes to a young team with a lot of talent and potential. There is also a large Serbian Community in chaicago which would be appealing for him.
From Peja's perspective, Chicago is a lot more attractive that many people realise.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
I know the summer is a long way from now, but as of now, here's my take on potential Peja suitors.
Utah- Already have Kirilenko at the 3, and who knows how Peja would do under Sloan?
Clippers- Have been rumored in Pierce deals, but in either case have Magette and Mobley or Pierce and Mobley, and no room for a Peja.
Hornets- An interesting option, but far from a contender. And just acquired Mason to man the wings next to J.R. Smith. Of course, I wouldn't mind either in a S&T.
Bobcats- Another interesting possibility. But don't they still have an altered salary cap as a recent expansion team? And why would a team that's taking time to build with rookies suddenly go and drop the max on Peja of all people?
Bulls- Here, finally, is the nuclear option. Strong Serb populaton, and a contentder to boot. Would like to hope that they go after Nene and Ben Wallace first, but who knows. I wouldn't mind Deng and Nicioni in a sign and trade, however, but losing Peja for nothing would be troubling to say the least.
Hawks-The only other possibility where I could see losing Peja for nothing. But again, they are stacked at the wings and would likely do another sign and trade (and lose another owner in the process). Getting one or two of their young wings and/or a draft pick would hardly be a bother either
And as for Toronto, I find it unlikely that Alvin Williams and whomever opt out... but it is a possibility. If Petrie could get Villanueva and/or Graham in return in a S&T I'd be happy.
Utah- Already have Kirilenko at the 3, and who knows how Peja would do under Sloan?
Clippers- Have been rumored in Pierce deals, but in either case have Magette and Mobley or Pierce and Mobley, and no room for a Peja.
Hornets- An interesting option, but far from a contender. And just acquired Mason to man the wings next to J.R. Smith. Of course, I wouldn't mind either in a S&T.
Bobcats- Another interesting possibility. But don't they still have an altered salary cap as a recent expansion team? And why would a team that's taking time to build with rookies suddenly go and drop the max on Peja of all people?
Bulls- Here, finally, is the nuclear option. Strong Serb populaton, and a contentder to boot. Would like to hope that they go after Nene and Ben Wallace first, but who knows. I wouldn't mind Deng and Nicioni in a sign and trade, however, but losing Peja for nothing would be troubling to say the least.
Hawks-The only other possibility where I could see losing Peja for nothing. But again, they are stacked at the wings and would likely do another sign and trade (and lose another owner in the process). Getting one or two of their young wings and/or a draft pick would hardly be a bother either
And as for Toronto, I find it unlikely that Alvin Williams and whomever opt out... but it is a possibility. If Petrie could get Villanueva and/or Graham in return in a S&T I'd be happy.
