What about Ron Artest as a Phoenix Sun?

Superman said:
WAIT!

Someone clarify this for me. I was under the impression that you can sign and trade a player who's Bird rights you don't have, but that you can't go over the cap to do so, and you have to wait 30 days(?) before trading him.

So Phoenix could sign JW (though we don't need him, I might add) to a contract and throw him in the deal, technically speaking. We'd just have to wait to do so.

Anyways, I don't really like that deal. I don't like Barbosa that much, and I disagree with the OP that point guard is our weakest position. Power forward is our weakest position since Webber left, and will be this coming season if the best we can do is Mikki Moore and Justin Williams.

I wish we had been able to do the deal with the Nuggets at the deadline, and pry Kleiza away from George Karl, especially after watching him in the Playoffs. The guy can score, he's tough, he plays hard, and he's young. He wouldn't turn us into a contender, but he's the type of player that seems to be able to fit into any system seamlessly because of his versatility. Same with Luis Scola, I think.
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At the end of the season Beno Udrich and Anthony Johnson's contracts both expire. Without further additions, that would leave us with Quincy Douby and Francisco Garcia splitting time as our starting PG. Neither is suited for that position. So yes, PG is our weakest position. At least Mikki Moore and Sheldon Williams are both natural PFs...
 
Superman said:
WAIT!

Someone clarify this for me. I was under the impression that you can sign and trade a player who's Bird rights you don't have, but that you can't go over the cap to do so, and you have to wait 30 days(?) before trading him.

So Phoenix could sign JW (though we don't need him, I might add) to a contract and throw him in the deal, technically speaking. We'd just have to wait to do so.

Anyways, I don't really like that deal. I don't like Barbosa that much, and I disagree with the OP that point guard is our weakest position. Power forward is our weakest position since Webber left, and will be this coming season if the best we can do is Mikki Moore and Justin Williams.

I wish we had been able to do the deal with the Nuggets at the deadline, and pry Kleiza away from George Karl, especially after watching him in the Playoffs. The guy can score, he's tough, he plays hard, and he's young. He wouldn't turn us into a contender, but he's the type of player that seems to be able to fit into any system seamlessly because of his versatility. Same with Luis Scola, I think.
Click to expand...

No if you sign someone in the offseason, you have to wait until Dec 15 or so to trade them. You can't S&T a player you don't have the bird rights to immediately or even within 30 days.
 
Noone cares about Justin Williams. Move on.

Anyway, I love this trade idea. The thought of Ron Ron in phx might stray my fanhood from the kings haha; I would like PHX so much. JK

But What about Artest + Salmons (or Moor if they wanted a shorter deal and another big)

for

LB
Diaw
#15

This gives PHX its wing man depth and versatility and it gives them youth (relative to their current situation at least lol. 28 is better than 34)

For the Kings it essentially turs Salmons into LB (Contract speaking) which is a good upgrade. We do take diaw's contract, which isnt pretty put he is young and not a bad player with the right minutes. Plus the 15th pick which I think could nab a good player.
 
Then we could trade our 12th pick and the 15th pick to Miami for the 1st pick. LOL They have like 57 PF as it is they don't need beasley.
 
Entity said:
Then we could trade our 12th pick and the 15th pick to Miami for the 1st pick. LOL They have like 57 PF as it is they don't need beasley.
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I don't know about that. But if we had two lottery (or close to it) picks, we could definitely trade up. Unless we could get a top 4 or 5 pick, however, I'd keep both and draft a PG (Augustin? Westbrook?) with one and a big (Speights? Lopez? Thompson?) with the other.
 
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I like Diaw and think that Phoenix instilled the confidence in him to really maximize his potential, because before that in Atlanta he was literally a 4 pt, 2 reb, 2 ast per game type guy in 22 minutes per game. All that being said, though, I think Diaw's potential is maximized in a run and gun motion offense where he can truly act as a point forward of sorts. Versatility is the name of his game. However, the fat contract...I think we should avoid those. He's definitely talented, but with the glut of swings on our team, it's not like we need him; if we have to take him for the sake of getting high end draft picks, I still wouldn't bite.

Barbosa is actually quite interesting. Of course, if we do get him, he does make Douby expendable...but it would be interesting to see how he fits in our sort of offense as opposed to running and gunning full time over at Arizona. He's got great finishing ability and end to end speed, but coming from the Phoenix school of offense he can't distinguish between a good or bad shot for better or for worse. But major talent, and Phoenix may probably want to sack a major player to land another major player back in Artest. Barbosa is the better choice because I can see him acting as quite the foil to our paced Udrih, but Phoenix probably prefers to sack Diaw if they land Artest, because they play the same position.
 
Artest isn't enough to land Barbosa and the #15. If we were trading with Phoenix we mor ethan likely would have to eat Diaw's contract to make them more interested.

I stil think it's a tempting risk if you can put together a pckage centered around Artest that nets you the #15 and Barbosa even if Diaw comes. Plus it would give Reggie personell more suited to play uptempp which is the style he said he wanted to use when he was hired.
 
Barbosa still wouldn't solve our PG problems. However, if we're just thinking in terms of flexible pieces, him and Diaw would be good pieces to have.
 
Here’s a continuation of my original thought…This would be a great off season in my book, but the likelihood of it going down is slim. Still, I wanted to share this thought, and see if it would get anyone else’s hopes up too…

Kings Trade to Suns:

Ron Artest
Quincy Douby

Suns Trade to Kings:
Leandro Barbosa
#15 pick
Trade exception

Kings then trade
#12 pick
#15 pick

Kings receive
#2 Pick (Derrick Rose)

Kings sign/trade PF with midlevel and trade exception: Emeka Okafor or Elton Brand

Kings Roster

PG: Derrick Rose/Leandro Barbosa
SG: Kevin Martin/Francisco Garcia/Cheap SG/SF (Dante Jones?)
SF: John Salmons/Francisco Garcia
PF: Elton Brand/Mikki Moore/Sheldon Williams
[FONT=&quot]C: Spencer Hawes/Brad Miller/Mikki Moore/Shareef Abdur-Rahim
[/FONT]
 
Another take would be to keep the #12 and #15 to draft a PG and a PF that we like there and sign Beno for the midlevel

PG: Beno Udrich/Leandro Barbosa/Draft Pick (Westbrook?)
SG: Kevin Martin/Leandro Barbosa/Francico Garcia
SF: John Salmons/Francisco Garcia
PF: Draft Pick(Arthur?Speights?)/Mikki Moore/Sheldon Williams
C: Spencer Hawes/Brad Miller/Mikki Moore/Shareef Adbur-Rahim

Having that trade exception would be awesome, because it would put some more marquee players in our price range through sign and trades. It would be like actually having cap space to draw in free agents, but it would involve a sign and trade. I really see us being able to go after an Emeka Okafor or Elton Brand with that:).
 
Arby's Roast Beef said:
I like Diaw and think that Phoenix instilled the confidence in him to really maximize his potential, because before that in Atlanta he was literally a 4 pt, 2 reb, 2 ast per game type guy in 22 minutes per game. All that being said, though, I think Diaw's potential is maximized in a run and gun motion offense where he can truly act as a point forward of sorts. Versatility is the name of his game. However, the fat contract...I think we should avoid those. He's definitely talented, but with the glut of swings on our team, it's not like we need him; if we have to take him for the sake of getting high end draft picks, I still wouldn't bite.

Barbosa is actually quite interesting. Of course, if we do get him, he does make Douby expendable...but it would be interesting to see how he fits in our sort of offense as opposed to running and gunning full time over at Arizona. He's got great finishing ability and end to end speed, but coming from the Phoenix school of offense he can't distinguish between a good or bad shot for better or for worse. But major talent, and Phoenix may probably want to sack a major player to land another major player back in Artest. Barbosa is the better choice because I can see him acting as quite the foil to our paced Udrih, but Phoenix probably prefers to sack Diaw if they land Artest, because they play the same position.
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I don't want Diaw on the Kings because he has a huge contract, but he's a much better player now than he was in Atlanta. The reason he wasn't playing good in Atlanta was because they played him in the backcourt, whereas Phoenix plays him as a forward (and even center when Amare was out last season). The Suns system definitely inflates his numbers, but if he ever gets traded, I highly doubt he'll drop back to 4, 2, and 2 ever again
 
Jespher said:
Here’s a continuation of my original thought…This would be a great off season in my book, but the likelihood of it going down is slim. Still, I wanted to share this thought, and see if it would get anyone else’s hopes up too…

Kings Trade to Suns:

Ron Artest
Quincy Douby

Suns Trade to Kings:
Leandro Barbosa
#15 pick
Trade exception

Kings then trade
#12 pick
#15 pick

Kings receive
#2 Pick (Derrick Rose)

Kings sign/trade PF with midlevel and trade exception: Emeka Okafor or Elton Brand

Kings Roster

PG: Derrick Rose/Leandro Barbosa
SG: Kevin Martin/Francisco Garcia/Cheap SG/SF (Dante Jones?)
SF: John Salmons/Francisco Garcia
PF: Elton Brand/Mikki Moore/Sheldon Williams
[FONT=&quot]C: Spencer Hawes/Brad Miller/Mikki Moore/Shareef Abdur-Rahim
[/FONT]
Click to expand...


No team is going to trade Rose for that package. And I don't think you can use a TPE and MLE in some sort of combo to do a sign and trade.
 
Vlade4GM said:
No one trades a franchise talent for a late lotto and mid 1st picks. It doesn't happen.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The only way I could see it possibly happening is if Miami or some other team that doesn't need Rose has the 2nd pick (assuming he's not picked first) AND we had the 4th or 5th pick AND another mid 1st-rounder. Good luck getting all of that to work out for us...
 
SacKings7 said:
Exactly. The only way I could see it possibly happening is if Miami or some other team that doesn't need Rose has the 2nd pick (assuming he's not picked first) AND we had the 4th or 5th pick AND another mid 1st-rounder. Good luck getting all of that to work out for us...
Click to expand...

The heat could definitely use Rose, I think they would like Beasley more but they could definitely use a true facilitating PG who can play D.
 
Wade and Rose or Wade and Beasley would be a fantastic combo for many years. I dont think the Heat would try to break that up if given the chance.
 
I'm wondering if Phoenix's cap situation could help the Kings in getting this deal done.

Please correct me if I'm wrong; I'm not an expert on cap situations. I'm simply trying to look for an actual upperhand for once with the Kings in the Artest saga.

Amick mentioned in his blog regarding the possible Mavs deal for Josh Howard that if Artest opts out of his contract, then he could simply sign with the Mavs as a free agent. But I thought the Mavs were grotesquely over the cap thanks to Cuban's freespending and wouldn't be able to sign free agents, except for the trade exception, which would be a paycut for Artest.

This relates to the Suns because after the Shaq trade, I was under the impression Phoenix was in a similar situation. So if Artest wanted to play alongside Shaq, Nash, Amare and Hill for a possible championship, then not opting out and going via trade is his only option.

And if the Suns really want him, they'll have to give us what we want (Barbosa, 15th pick, trade exception) without dumping Diaw on us. Otherwise Artest will just opt out, possibly signing with one of their rivals. And they have enough problems without having to deal with Artest's defense on a contender.
 
Löwenherz said:
I'm wondering if Phoenix's cap situation could help the Kings in getting this deal done.

Please correct me if I'm wrong; I'm not an expert on cap situations. I'm simply trying to look for an actual upperhand for once with the Kings in the Artest saga.

Amick mentioned in his blog regarding the possible Mavs deal for Josh Howard that if Artest opts out of his contract, then he could simply sign with the Mavs as a free agent. But I thought the Mavs were grotesquely over the cap thanks to Cuban's freespending and wouldn't be able to sign free agents, except for the trade exception, which would be a paycut for Artest.
Click to expand...

This is all correct. Futhermore, the only players Dallas has who are in the remote vicinity of Ron's contract for salary matching purposes are Howard, Dampier, and Terry.

This relates to the Suns because after the Shaq trade, I was under the impression Phoenix was in a similar situation. So if Artest wanted to play alongside Shaq, Nash, Amare and Hill for a possible championship, then not opting out and going via trade is his only option.

And if the Suns really want him, they'll have to give us what we want (Barbosa, 15th pick, trade exception) without dumping Diaw on us. Otherwise Artest will just opt out, possibly signing with one of their rivals. And they have enough problems without having to deal with Artest's defense on a contender.
Click to expand...
Well, Ron could always opt out and we could swing a sign-and-trade, which would amount to the same thing but give Phoenix more years guaranteed (minimum of 3 years for a legal sign-and-trade, I think). But Phoenix, like Dallas, would only have the mid-level exception to sign him on their own, and there's no reason for Ron to pass up a lot of money for that.

It will be difficult to deal him before the draft, though. We know he can't be traded with his player option still up in the air, and he has until June 30th to exercise it. I don't think there's been a definitive answer to whether a player can legally take the extra year on his player option and then be traded before the June 30th date. If not (or if Ron doesn't exercise the option in time) we'd likely have to wait for Phoenix to pick at #15 and sign the player (then wait 30 days) - and they're not likely to pick the player we want without a very strong handshake deal in place. They'd have to be pretty convinced Ron wanted to go to Phoenix. But if that were to happen, the #15 pick (signed) and Barbosa should match Ron's player option salary close enough to work under the cap. If it were a sign-and-trade, we'd probably need a piece of that trade exception as well. And all of that is dependent on Phoenix being willing to give up Barbosa, of course.
 
Löwenherz said:
I'm wondering if Phoenix's cap situation could help the Kings in getting this deal done.

Please correct me if I'm wrong; I'm not an expert on cap situations. I'm simply trying to look for an actual upperhand for once with the Kings in the Artest saga.

Amick mentioned in his blog regarding the possible Mavs deal for Josh Howard that if Artest opts out of his contract, then he could simply sign with the Mavs as a free agent. But I thought the Mavs were grotesquely over the cap thanks to Cuban's freespending and wouldn't be able to sign free agents, except for the trade exception, which would be a paycut for Artest.

This relates to the Suns because after the Shaq trade, I was under the impression Phoenix was in a similar situation. So if Artest wanted to play alongside Shaq, Nash, Amare and Hill for a possible championship, then not opting out and going via trade is his only option.

And if the Suns really want him, they'll have to give us what we want (Barbosa, 15th pick, trade exception) without dumping Diaw on us. Otherwise Artest will just opt out, possibly signing with one of their rivals. And they have enough problems without having to deal with Artest's defense on a contender.
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Dallas has $72,817,214.00 commited to 8 players that are still under contract. One I beleive being the team option.
The Suns have $70,398,830.00 commited to 9 players, with one being the team option.

So, yes, your right. The only way either team could sign Artest is with the MLE. Now the suns do have that player exception. I don't remember how much its for, and I'm not sure when it expires.
 
Jespher said:
Another take would be to keep the #12 and #15 to draft a PG and a PF that we like there and sign Beno for the midlevel

PG: Beno Udrich/Leandro Barbosa/Draft Pick (Westbrook?)
SG: Kevin Martin/Leandro Barbosa/Francico Garcia
SF: John Salmons/Francisco Garcia
PF: Draft Pick(Arthur?Speights?)/Mikki Moore/Sheldon Williams
C: Spencer Hawes/Brad Miller/Mikki Moore/Shareef Adbur-Rahim

Having that trade exception would be awesome, because it would put some more marquee players in our price range through sign and trades. It would be like actually having cap space to draw in free agents, but it would involve a sign and trade. I really see us being able to go after an Emeka Okafor or Elton Brand with that:).
Click to expand...

I like that better, even though I have no use for Leandro Barbosa as a King. But I'd prefer that we do that and keep Beno than put Derrick Rose in there. Not that I wouldn't like to have Derrick Rose, but that I'd rather have two top 15 picks than put all my stock in a rookie pg guard on an already struggling team with no cap space and no expiring contracts.
 
There is alot of speculation of the Petrie sending Artest to Dallas or the Suns but I can't see him sending a 20 pt/g player and on of the best defenders in the league to a team in the Western Conference let alone the Pacific Division. Petrie never sends good players to the same conference. Bibby, Peja and Webber all went to the eastern Conference for a reason. So that the Kings don't have to play them 4 times in a season.
 
CaminoChaos said:
There is alot of speculation of the Petrie sending Artest to Dallas or the Suns but I can't see him sending a 20 pt/g player and on of the best defenders in the league to a team in the Western Conference let alone the Pacific Division. Petrie never sends good players to the same conference. Bibby, Peja and Webber all went to the eastern Conference for a reason. So that the Kings don't have to play them 4 times in a season.
Click to expand...

I don't see any quality players worth obtaining from the Leastern Conference. If all of the good players are in the West, then we should trade with the west right? Trades are meant to benefit both teams...
 
Couple this with a Miller to Orlando trade (say we get their pick, Battie, Redick, Brian Cook, and the corpse of Bo Outlaw [s&t to make salaries work than buy either him or Battie out] for Brad Miller and Quincy Douby and the latter second rounder. Then you could send Salmons and Kenny to Portland for Raef Lafrentz and Sergio Rodriguez.

Lafrents is 12 million off the books next year, and we get a nice PG prospect that Portland doesn't need anymore with Rudy Fernandez coming over and they already have Steve Blake and Jarret Jack.

waive the expirings (Cook at 3.5, LaFrentz at 12, Bo Outlaw at about 5, SAR at about 6) to make room for draftees.

Then you have 3 first rounders and 1 second rounder.

So we end up looking like (assuming we resign Beno)

Udrih/Barbosa/Rodriguez
Martin/Barbosa/Redick
Garcia/draft pick/draft pick
Moore/draft pick/Shelden
Hawes/Battie/draft pick

Then Petrie can get those euro wings he desires (Batum anybody?) and still draft for need. If Arthur does fall to us, I say we take him. The comparisons to Dwight Howard make it worth the risk. Also, you'd play JJ and Barbosa together and LET IT RAIN! haha but I think they would be a good bench tandem.

The team is going to be terrible, but you will have about 23 mil coming off the books for the 09 offseason. (FAs include Josh Smith, Emeka Okafor, Elton Brand, Shawn Marion, Dwayne Wade, Antoine Walker.... jk)
 
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