We're number 12! We're number 12!

[thedofd]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2588267

I know that many of you aren't Mark Stein fans, but he came out with his 1 through 15 ratings of how Western Conference teams have fared this offseason. Read it and weep (for what it's worth). BTW, I'm guessing Stein's not a big Brad Miller fan, since he doesn't mention him as part of the Kings' core.


12. SACRAMENTO KINGS
Bonzi Wells has been pilloried for his decision to turn down Sacramento's $7-million-a-season offer and understandably so. Word is he wanted $10 million annually and he's not going to come close to recouping any of that money anytime soon.

But Bonzi isn't the only loser here. For all his ills, Wells was Sacto's playoff difference-maker, abusing mighty San Antonio inside and giving the Kings what suddenly seemed like a three-man core to build on alongside Mike Bibby and the mercurial Ron Artest. There was also a decent chance he would have continued to be the good Bonzi with the Kings, since Wells was super-tight with the late Bill Musselman and thus eager to play for Eric Musselman and give the new coach some momentum from the start.

I certainly can't blame Geoff Petrie for refusing to offer Wells more than $35-ish million over five years, but I suspect Wells (with prodding from Artest, who loves him) eventually would have taken it. The Kings will naturally counter by saying they couldn't wait around to find out, but Salmons -- another non-shooter who lacks Bonzi's power-game gifts -- doesn't move me as a $25 million Wells replacement.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Stein really is something else. When will people learn that Salmons is not Wells's replacement and that Martin is. That guy is so stupid that he could make anyone feel smart.

 

[Sac.Kings]

The Spurs didn't get better in my opnion, the Mavs I agree with, Houston yes, NO is overhyped and they will problems playing defense, Denver still sucks (no shooter) and I am not sure how they are rated that high. he complains about Miller but Joe Smith is similar to Miller and he likes him. Portland got and did better than next to last. Stein has no clue what he is talking about. His rankings are based more on what his idiot mind thinks than actual facts. I am going to stop now because i will rant on forever if i don't.

 

[Bricklayer]

Stein really is something else. When will people learn that Salmons is not Wells's replacement and that Martin is. That guy is so stupid that he could make anyone feel smart.

On the contrary, Stein has long been one of the best and most balanced national writers -- people normally accuse him of being stupid just about the time he has something negative to say about their team.

And the whole "Kevin is Bonzi's replacement, not Salmons" thing is semantics at best, ridiculous at worst.
1) Kevin was on the team last year. Salmons was not.
2) Salmons was not signed until Bonzi fell through for us.
3) Salmons' deal is now being used as an excuse why we can no longer afford Bonzi monetarily or minuteswise.
4) The bulk of Bonzi's 32 min from last year will likely be redistributed to Salmons. Kevin already averaged 27. Bonzi leaving gives him 5-10 more max.

We lost a guard named Bonzi, gained a guard named Salmons with the bulk of his minutes and money. Hence Salmons = Bonzi's replacement.

 

[Jerryaki]

^ agree; kevin and salmons have similar slashing games, neither of them are really "replacing" bonzi's post/interior offense. so if you can say kevin is replacing bonzi, then really so can salmons.

 

[TheJoker]

Marc Stein is right on sadly we should even be more worse then #12 IMO.

 

[Troy]

Stein really is something else. When will people learn that Salmons is not Wells's replacement and that Martin is. That guy is so stupid that he could make anyone feel smart.

Marc Stein gives us Stein's a bad name.
I'm Troy Stein by the way.

I seriously think his comments are justified. I'll take #12 out of 15 in the West. It wasn't exactly a block buster offseason, at least not yet.

 

[BMiller52]

It's been a mediocre offseason and that's what he said. Doesn't mean we're going to be a bad team though.

 

[TheJoker]

It's been a mediocre offseason and that's what he said. Doesn't mean we're going to be a bad team though.

It means we will be a average/pretty good team. what Marc is saying is what i have been saying the Kings needed to have a good off-season and they didn't.

Kings as they stand are a 8th or a 7th seed. like Brick said, replacing Bonzi with Salmons is not gonna make the matters good.

 

[SacKings384]

I think we should be #15... We have absolutely back pedaled more than any other team in the Western Conference. I think he's being very generous with the 12 spot...

1.Lost one of the top NBA coaches for an unproven one.
2.Lost Bonzi Wells (Our best player in the beginning of the season, and in the postseason)
3.Signed John Salmons to a bloated contract
4.Adressed none of the front line issues
5.Did the opposite of anything Ron Artest hoped for.

I'd say that's a pretty damn bad offseason. I fail to see any other team on that list that had worse.

(P.S How can you say Salmons ISN'T Wells replacement? Even though Kevin is moving to the starting lineup, once Bonzi was out we went out and picked up Salmons, a guy that plays a similar position, with the money that WOULD have gone to Wells. Sounds like a replacement to me...)

 

[TheJoker]

^ Pretty much it yep.

 

[Viking]

On the contrary, Stein has long been one of the best and most balanced national writers -- people normally accuse him of being stupid just about the time he has something negative to say about their team.

And the whole "Kevin is Bonzi's replacement, not Salmons" thing is semantics at best, ridiculous at worst.
1) Kevin was on the team last year. Salmons was not.
2) Salmons was not signed until Bonzi fell through for us.
3) Salmons' deal is now being used as an excuse why we can no longer afford Bonzi monetarily or minuteswise.
4) The bulk of Bonzi's 32 min from last year will likely be redistributed to Salmons. Kevin already averaged 27. Bonzi leaving gives him 5-10 more max.

We lost a guard named Bonzi, gained a guard named Salmons with the bulk of his minutes and money. Hence Salmons = Bonzi's replacement.

Why must the truth be so depressing, Bricklayer?

 

[gunks]

Salmons replaced Bonzi's space on the roster and payroll...But come gametime it is gonna be K-Mart as the Bonzi replacement on the starting 5.

Kings should be higher than 12...maybe 10.

 

[thatguy]

On the contrary, Stein has long been one of the best and most balanced national writers -- people normally accuse him of being stupid just about the time he has something negative to say about their team.

I usually don't have a problem with what he writes, but I realized he had a thinking impediment when he predicted the Suns were going to win 70 or more games on NBA Tonight a couple seasons ago.

 

[Padrino]

eh...that's a fair assessment. given that its basically on offseason ranking only, and not so much a power ranking, #12 ain't bad (even out of 15), considering how few strides the kings front office made in addressing their biggest concerns on the court.

 

[Londonking]

And the whole "Kevin is Bonzi's replacement, not Salmons" thing is semantics at best, ridiculous at worst.
1) Kevin was on the team last year. Salmons was not.
2) Salmons was not signed until Bonzi fell through for us.
3) Salmons' deal is now being used as an excuse why we can no longer afford Bonzi monetarily or minuteswise.
4) The bulk of Bonzi's 32 min from last year will likely be redistributed to Salmons. Kevin already averaged 27. Bonzi leaving gives him 5-10 more max.

We lost a guard named Bonzi, gained a guard named Salmons with the bulk of his minutes and money. Hence Salmons = Bonzi's replacement.

Im not convinced that the role Salmons will be asked to play will be to try to emulate what Bonzi brought to the court last season.

From what i read i thought Salmons was going to back up Mike and give him fewer, better, stronger minutes- especially in Q4.

Isnt Kevin bettest equiped to play the fast, strong, take it to the hoop type guard role that Bonzi enjoyed?

 

[Warhawk]

Im not convinced that the role Salmons will be asked to play will be to try to emulate what Bonzi brought to the court last season.

From what i read i thought Salmons was going to back up Mike and give him fewer, better, stronger minutes- especially in Q4.

Isnt Kevin bettest equiped to play the fast, strong, take it to the hoop type guard role that Bonzi enjoyed?

And I thought Garcia would have an increased role this year as well.

And, the big "?" is who performs best for Coach Muss and his system.

 

[BigSong]

^ agree; kevin and salmons have similar slashing games, neither of them are really "replacing" bonzi's post/interior offense. so if you can say kevin is replacing bonzi, then really so can salmons.

well technically you should say that martin is replacing wells as the starter, and SAR will hopefully be taking up the slack offensively for the Kings in the post. If anything were starting to appear to be more typical in our line up with our forwards playing inside and our guards playing from the perimeter.

on another note, isnt this the same guy who last year said we were goin to win our division?

 

[SacTownKid]

Pretty crappy list if you ask me. Stein is a pretty big idiot so this doesn't surprise me.

 

[SacTownKid]

The problem with Stein isn't that he says something negative about a team. It's that he is usually wrong to a great degree.

 

[Bricklayer]

on another note, isnt this the same guy who last year said we were goin to win our division?

Nope. One of the reasons everybody around here decided that Stein was an "idiot" was that he was one of the first to, correctly as it turns out, publicly question whether our 5 good but not great softies was going to gel on the court last year.

 

[Entity]

Bonzi not being here is addition by subtraction. Sure you lose his rebounding and inside presence but you get Rons inside game now he is gone and slashing high flying & perimeter player in K mart.

I said the same thing about Peja last year when we got Ron the addition by subtraction. We got better with the trade of peja no matter if we got anybody back or not Peja was killing us. Now having Keving starting rather than Bonzi is another addition by subtraction. Kevin is a more talented player. Sure Bonzi could rebound and bang inside but other than that his passes were weak, ball handling skills were aweful (at best) he had no outside shot (other than the playoffs) and he often times forced the issue. One game that sticks out is that Utah game when they came back. Bonzi had 8 turnovers and was forcing shots that he was not capable of making.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yep that's it -- addition by subtraction. Golly gosh I sure am glad that we got rid of that problematic best player on the team first half of the year, best player in the playoffs (by a lot) tank of an OG who's name 17,000 fans at Arco were chanting a few months back, and who teamed with Ron to give us something approaching a personality, not to mention a headache for coaches trying to figure out to guard 2 power smalls at one time. We should probably move that Artest guy too to make room for Cisco, because after all he jumps higher and looks prettier and that as we all know is all that's important in basketball.

What a bunch of hooey.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Darn it, Brick!

Didn't you get the memo? We're not allowed to be pessimistic (or, apparently, realistic) today.

 

[G_M]

) The bulk of Bonzi's 32 min from last year will likely be redistributed to Salmons. Kevin already averaged 27. Bonzi leaving gives him 5-10 more max.

First, Martin's minutes were skewed by Bonzi's injury. Bonzi missed more than a 1/3 of the season. No way Martin approaches 27 mins a game with Bonzi in the line-up.

Also, Martin is the most promising young player on the Kings. Barring an injury I see Martin playing 34-36 minutes a game. I still think they see Salmons a a combo back-up to the 1-2. Whether that is productive I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[TheJoker]

Darn it, Brick!

Didn't you get the memo? We're not allowed to be pessimistic (or, apparently, realistic) today.

I think, we just have passionate fans who have alot of optimism inside of them and it takes alot of pride as far as thinking there is no chance we have a mediocre year.

but a realistic person will you that this team is just not good enough and has had one of the worst if not the worst off-season this summer. Brick has been hitting the hammer on the head pretty hard and i'm pretty sure not everyone is happy with his pessimism but it's more then pessimism its reality and people just need to face the truth.

 

[VF21]

Oh, good. Here we go again with the "people just need to face the truth."

Balderdash. We're talking about sports here. We're talking about FANatics of a team who want to be optimistic. Be realistic all you like. That's your prerogative. But it's the prerogative of others to be as optimistic as they like.

The idea that one has to be right and one, therefore, must be wrong is just silly. IT'S ABOUT A GAME, folks!!!

 

[Entity]

Yep that's it -- addition by subtraction. Golly gosh I sure am glad that we got rid of that problematic best player on the team first half of the year, best player in the playoffs (by a lot) tank of an OG who's name 17,000 fans at Arco were chanting a few months back, and who teamed with Ron to give us something approaching a personality, not to mention a headache for coaches trying to figure out to guard 2 power smalls at one time. We should probably move that Artest guy too to make room for Cisco, because after all he jumps higher and looks prettier and that as we all know is all that's important in basketball.

What a bunch of hooey.

I got an idea why don't you go find a team that fits your exact needs with the perfect person at every position that passes Bricklayers test which in turn means it must be right. Why don't you join the Miami Heat fan club because after all you know they can win a championship they just did it. That should make you happy. Why in the hell would you want to watch and cherish a team that you are so unhappy with that the whole offseason you dog every move every non move and every player that they have with the exception of Ron in which last year before we got him that trade also didn't meet the all powerful Bricklayer standards of a good trade. I am sorry but your not this completely right all knowing omnipotent basketball genius you think you are. You could be wrong about everything you say. Its already going far enough when you grade them after every game as if your take on each players performance is the way it is and can't be subject to objection by any other fan because you are the basketball god. Go throw your lightning bolts and clap your thunder to a team that meets your godlike stature. Because we are a bunch of nobody's and will never get a championship unless we get the hand selected players of your choice on the team.

 

[VF21]

I got an idea why don't you go find a team that fits your exact needs with the perfect person at every position that passes Bricklayers test which in turn means it must be right. Why don't you join the Miami Heat fan club because after all you know they can win a championship they just did it. That should make you happy. Why in the hell would you want to watch and cherish a team that you are so unhappy with that the whole offseason you dog every move every non move and every player that they have with the exception of Ron in which last year before we got him that trade also didn't meet the all powerful Bricklayer standards of a good trade. I am sorry but your not this completely right all knowing omnipotent basketball genius you think you are. You could be wrong about everything you say. Its already going far enough when you grade them after every game as if your take on each players performance is the way it is and can't be subject to objection by any other fan because you are the basketball god. Go throw your lightning bolts and clap your thunder to a team that meets your godlike stature. Because we are a bunch of nobody's and will never get a championship unless we get the hand selected players of your choice on the team.

Entity, that steps over the line in about a dozen different ways. You're making it personal and that's not acceptable around here.

If you disagree with Bricklayer's takes, fine. But you've crossed into personal attacks. Please cease and desist. Thanks...

 

[TheJoker]

Entity, that steps over the line in about a dozen different ways. You're making it personal and that's not acceptable around here.

If you disagree with Bricklayer's takes, fine. But you've crossed into personal attacks. Please cease and desist. Thanks...

I don't get it... is it wrong to be realistic? i understand everyone in the fan base wants every one of us to think about Championship...WCF Champs...etc but why show you're true color because Brick is just trying to be realistic? Brick is one of the smartest if NOT the smartest poster in KF. and when he knows we're good he will say it when he knows we won't be good and our off-season was mediocre then HE will say it.