We're #2! (merged)

sactowndog said:
It’s possible the Kings could trade the pick given we have so many bigs. An interesting option might be 2 to Chicago for Markennen and 7.
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We don’t need to acquire more talent at the expense of a possible franchise player.
We need to add a franchise player and get out of the lottery. If Giles turns out to be a franchise player, this will be like the year the Kings got Vlade, Webber and J-Will. Total reset as to our future prospects.
 
sactowndog said:
Since they are split 50/50 how do you know which combination came up? You don’t as it could have been a combination associated with 7 or 6
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We do know it was a combination associated with 7 because we were associated with 7 and our combination got picked. If the coin toss would have had the opposite result (meaning we would be associated with 6 and Chicago with 7) we would have celebrated our good luck for "winning" the coin flip but then realized when Chicago moved up to #2 that it was actually bad luck. If you work this out in reverse, starting at the outcome and tracing back how we got there, it should be obvious that we have no idea who actually won the coin flip until after the draft lottery.
 
Joshoua said:
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiret...Already-Be-Decided-Upon-Deandre-Ayton-At-No-1

This guy is saying it was Ayton last night
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If you remove the coach, Ayton 100% fits their entire roster and everything they've been looking for. They desperately need a C. The thin towers of Chriss/Bender have been nothing but disappointments. Ayton gives them the physical dominant big man they've been looking for. On top of that, he gives the Suns another #1 scoring option. It would take off a ton of pressure on Booker. Ayton played some highschool ball in Arizona. Went to the Univeristy of Arizona. At SF they also already have Josh Jackson who they're really high on. It 100% makes sense for them to take Ayton......but now you have to factor in Igor Kokoskov.

Kokoskov was an assistant coach for the Suns from 2008-2013. They drafted Goran Dragic in 2008 with a mid/late 2nd round pick, and their GM quoted Dragic as the 2nd best PG prospect behind Derrick Rose (draft of Westbrook, Hill, Bayless, etc).

It should be noted that he didn't start coaching the Slovenia national team until 2016. He previously coached the Georgia national team. He's Serbian.

It'll be interesting to see how much influence Kokoskov will have on their decision making.

For what it's worth, Ayton wants to be the #1 pick, and sees him and Booker as the next Kobe-Shaq. All signs point that the Suns should take Ayton..except one.
 
206Fan said:
If you remove the coach, Ayton 100% fits their entire roster and everything they've been looking for. They desperately need a C. The thin towers of Chriss/Bender have been nothing but disappointments. Ayton gives them the physical dominant big man they've been looking for. On top of that, he gives the Suns another #1 scoring option. It would take off a ton of pressure on Booker. Ayton played some highschool ball in Arizona. Went to the Univeristy of Arizona. At SF they also already have Josh Jackson who they're really high on. It 100% makes sense for them to take Ayton......but now you have to factor in Igor Kokoskov.

Kokoskov was an assistant coach for the Suns from 2008-2013. They drafted Goran Dragic in 2008 with a mid/late 2nd round pick, and their GM quoted Dragic as the 2nd best PG prospect behind Derrick Rose (draft of Westbrook, Hill, Bayless, etc).

It should be noted that he didn't start coaching the Slovenia national team until 2016. He previously coached the Georgia national team. He's Serbian.

It'll be interesting to see how much influence Kokoskov will have on their decision making.

For what it's worth, Ayton wants to be the #1 pick, and sees him and Booker as the next Kobe-Shaq. All signs point that the Suns should take Ayton..except one.
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I think it's Ayton. Even with my doubts about him he's who I'd take #1 for the Kings too. I think he'll become a decent defensive anchor in time and he has double-double potential from day one.

I also don't think Doncic is necessarily a no-brainer at 2. I love his game but I don't necessarily see an all-star when I watch his tape. So lots of options to consider for the Kings. Take Luka? Trade down? Trade the pick for a veteran? Draft Bagley, Jackson, Bamba, Porter?

I'd lean towards taking Doncic, Bagley or JJJ but honestly this was all a lot easier when I figured the Kings had the 7th pick. Wendall Carter or Porter (if his medicals checked out) is a lot easier than the pressure of nailing the #2 in this draft.
 
The rumors tend to be leaning heavily towards Phoenix taking Ayton.

It would be fun to have a dominant big again, but the questions surrounding his defensive effort/IQ make missing out on Ayton an easier pill to swallow.

I'm gonna go watch more Doncic highlights now.
 
Yes Ayton makes too much sense for Phoenix so they hire a coach that makes sense to go the other way I feel like they just confirm my suspicion that they are a rudderless franchise.
 
hrdboild said:
If you work this out in reverse, starting at the outcome and tracing back how we got there, it should be obvious that we have no idea who actually won the coin flip until after the draft lottery.
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I mean, while it's correct that we hit the lottery on the basis of losing the coin flip, we still lost the coin flip. We knew we lost the coin flip when the coin landed. We just didn't know who won the lottery until after the lottery.
 
Not for nothin.... Scot Pollard says it is nobrainer. Bagley. Hmm.... I would do it on his counsel TBH he’s good at this.
 
John Galt said:
Not for nothin.... Scot Pollard says it is nobrainer. Bagley. Hmm.... I would do it on his counsel TBH he’s good at this.
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Probably the only trade down option I wouldn't be super mad about.

I think we might start seeing messages like this floating around. No reason not to test the water and see what offers we can fish up from teams picking 3-5ish.

I'd prefer Doncic, but Bagley has just as much upside (albeit with a lower floor).
 
Capt. Factorial said:
I mean, while it's correct that we hit the lottery on the basis of losing the coin flip, we still lost the coin flip. We knew we lost the coin flip when the coin landed. We just didn't know who won the lottery until after the lottery.
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That would be true if the coin flip didn't also determine which team gets which number combinations for purposes of the lottery. The coin flip does both so you have to look at the results of both events together. Winning the coin flip is meaningless if it means you get the 6th pick instead of the 2nd pick. 100% of us would prefer the 2nd pick over the 6th pick so is that actually winning anything? I say no. Especially when the result also means that we pick ahead of Chicago in the 2nd round.
 
I wanted mitchell #10 and issac at #5 for us last year. Mitchell was a hit and issac over fox is still incomplete for me.

Brace yourself as I do not look at the popular mock drafts or just tag along with the consensus popular guys. (learned many lessons, jimmer, Trob, Bmac etc.)

This year I like Porter Jr. weather it be at #2 or if we trade down so long as we end up with him. Not totally sold on him but he has the tools to be great with the new wing/multi skill long version of the NBA. He can switch onto guards, attack closeouts and hopefully can develop a reliable jump shot. All of this is predicated on him being medically fine. He was right up there with Tatum coming out of high school, the choice of college and injury really knocked him down the board but If im Vlade and my job is on the line i go out swinging with a guy who at the very least fits perfectly into the modern NBA and has superstar potential.

Ayton I totally get his raw talent and athleticism but the league is increasingly becoming perimeter and space oriented because defenses have figured out how to limit or stop big man postups consistantly. You can find a good rim runner/protector for a decent low price in free agency. I just dont think Aytons style fits into playoff style basketball anymore. You MUST be a versatile perimeter threat to see high level playoff mins. I would never be against ayton on the team but im not spending a top 4 pick on him.

Luka im just weary on, we have seen fancy passing highlights out of euro leagues before only to find out that those wild passes dont work with the speed of the NBA (remember alexi shved leads the euro league in scoring). I also worry if he can keep up athletically with some of the wings in this league. Is his first step fast enough to beat top defenders? Can he hold his own on switches with guards? Who was the last under 6'10 euro guy to make an all-star team? All big questions and I do not think he can cut it. IMO he might get some GM fired.
 
funkykingston said:
I think it's Ayton. Even with my doubts about him he's who I'd take #1 for the Kings too. I think he'll become a decent defensive anchor in time and he has double-double potential from day one.

I also don't think Doncic is necessarily a no-brainer at 2. I love his game but I don't necessarily see an all-star when I watch his tape. So lots of options to consider for the Kings. Take Luka? Trade down? Trade the pick for a veteran? Draft Bagley, Jackson, Bamba, Porter?

I'd lean towards taking Doncic, Bagley or JJJ but honestly this was all a lot easier when I figured the Kings had the 7th pick. Wendall Carter or Porter (if his medicals checked out) is a lot easier than the pressure of nailing the #2 in this draft.
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I previously questioned Doncic's star potential as well. Saw him as a guy who capped out at 17-5-5, which is good, but not star status. I thought Ben Simmons was a guy who would cap out at 5apg (he averaged 4.8apg at LSU). I just didn't see him as a natural facilitator. In his first year in the NBA, he's averaged 8.2apg. I was being extremely unfair in thinking his potential could only go so high. I recognized I was doing the same to Doncic.

His athleticism does limit his ceiling compared to the other guys, but he's just so good in the other areas that I think he can make it up. He's a 6'8 228lb point-guard. That's an entirely different territory. That's Lebron and Magic. He's not just a point-forward like Khris Middleton or Gordon Hayward. He's a legitimate PG imo. That's what makes him special.
 
206Fan said:
If you remove the coach, Ayton 100% fits their entire roster and everything they've been looking for...

...It should be noted that he didn't start coaching the Slovenia national team until 2016. He previously coached the Georgia national team. He's Serbian.

It'll be interesting to see how much influence Kokoskov will have on their decision making.

For what it's worth, Ayton wants to be the #1 pick, and sees him and Booker as the next Kobe-Shaq. All signs point that the Suns should take Ayton..except one.
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Honestly, I think the coach will have minimal impact on the ultimate choice. Coaches come and go, in accordance with how they can align the team with the needs identified by the FO (which they prioritize based on their own set of metrics). For example, some (i.e. Avery Brooks) are brought in to get a new team to playoff contention and then dismissed when the team now needs to take the next step. Kokoskov has been with the organization only a short time, and who knows how long they expect to keep him. For a decision with such a long-term potential impact on the franchise, I suspect they will involve the coach to an extent that's somewhere between (a) the value of his insights, and (b) the level of perceived influence that will keep him happy. Then the grown-ups will make the decision.
 
kingjatt said:
...Luka im just weary on, we have seen fancy passing highlights out of euro leagues before only to find out that those wild passes dont work with the speed of the NBA (remember alexi shved leads the euro league in scoring). I also worry if he can keep up athletically with some of the wings in this league. .
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That's a very valid point. I'm rooting for us to get Luca, but the competition and pace of the NBA are usually at a higher level. Down in D1 we saw this with Michael Porter Jr. at Mizzou this year, who was killing it in High School but was a disaster in college play when he tried to come back early from injury to help the team. As the level of competition gets higher, a showboat can find themselves banging up against the rocks of the shore.
 
MizzouKing said:
Honestly, I think the coach will have minimal impact on the ultimate choice. Coaches come and go, in accordance with how they can align the team with the needs identified by the FO (which they prioritize based on their own set of metrics). For example, some (i.e. Avery Brooks) are brought in to get a new team to playoff contention and then dismissed when the team now needs to take the next step.
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Avery Brooks?


968full-avery-brooks.jpg
 
apollo916 said:
Not trolling. Dead serioes. I can't believe everyone wants Luka at 2. That's craziness. He would not be able to stay in front of ANY guard in the league.
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Then he'll fit into the nba perfectly. Steph, lillard, Westbrook, kyrie, and kemba are all terrible defenders.
John Galt said:
Not for nothin.... Scot Pollard says it is nobrainer. Bagley. Hmm.... I would do it on his counsel TBH he’s good at this.
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Yeah that changes things. He's nails usually.
 
MOD NOTE: I moved one post for both Ayton and Doncic into new threads, since I'm pretty sure they're what we're gonna be talking about for the next month+.
 
Tetsujin said:
I mean, they have a gaping big man/point guard sized hole in their roster.

Tyson Chandler/Bender/
Chriss/Dudley
Jackson/TJ Warren
Booker/Jackson/
Ulis/Crackerjacks

Doncic is big enough to play some four in the modern NBA but it certainly isn't ideal. Ayton is a semi-local guy (Arizona) so it seems almost a perfect match. But so does Luka so w/e
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Right. The suns are in no position to be picky, as their roster is a lot weaker than ours is IMO. they need it all
 
funkykingston said:
To me Jackson's biggest wart is his shooting mechanics. But it also worries me a bit that he didn't get big minutes as a freshman. Bad memories of Marvin Williams maybe. But his metrics when he was on the court were fantastic.

Ayton's poor defense given his tools concerns me. And Bagley's concerns me even more. He looked lost in a 2-3 zone at times. Nevermind being a questionable positional fit in today's NBA.

Doncic's blemishes are his lack of quickness (especially laterally) and explosiveness. He'll need elite shooting to make up for that the same way Curry has but Doncic's outside shot has been good but not great this season. I think he could be a high floor low ceiling pick.

What the Kings really need is an elite, go-to scorer who can fill it up from outside. Ideally at the SF spot. That guy isn't really in this draft IMO though it's tempting to think Porter might be that guy. Personally he looks to me like an inefficient chucker more than a natural scorer. He could have a lot more to his game but what I see is a guy whose go-to move is just to pull up and shoot. He'll need a lot more tricks in his bag (post moves, tighter handle, some semblance of a passing game, counter moves etc) to be an all-star.

That said, he was who I was looking at for the 7th or 8th pick along with Bamba, Carter, and the Bridges with Troy Brown and Zhaire Smith as my sleepers.

Now I have to look much harder at Jackson, Ayton, & Doncic.
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The good thing about Ayton’s defensive woes is that i think that’s the easiest thing to fix. I’m concerened that effort doesn’t seem to be put in on that end from everything I’ve been reading, but i really do believe that can be worked on and improved almost immediately
 
NewArena said:
The good thing about Ayton’s defensive woes is that i think that’s the easiest thing to fix. I’m concerened that effort doesn’t seem to be put in on that end from everything I’ve been reading, but i really do believe that can be worked on and improved almost immediately
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Effort has been a question mark with Ayton for a few years now. That said, I agree. He may never be an anchor and elite rim protector but I think he can improve significantly if he chooses to and if he lands with a good defensive/big man coach.

I'm also kind of crossing Ayton off in my mind though because I think it's a near lock that he goes #1 to the Suns.
 
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