Welcome to the Kings Lamar Patterson

#31
Collision/ Cousins
Afflalo/Mclemore/Temple/Patterson/Malachi
Gay/Omri/Barnes
WCS/Tolliver/ Skal
Cousins/Koufos/ Pappa

Roster stands at 16 with I. Cousins and Patterson being question marks and Rudy, Ben and Koufos being trade chips. Personally I wouldn't trade Koufos unless you plan on playing WCS at backup C a lot. Koufos fits Joerger style much more than Karl and we know Cousins misses gamea at points each season.
 
#32
I think Joerger is going away from Memphis Grit n Grind offense. Pretty evident when the reports about him wanting to play at a faster pace...

Matt Barnes at the 4 though??? Karl wouldn't even do that..... If we're talking about Harrison Barnes, it makes a lot of sense, but Matt Barnes can't play the 4.. that's insane.

I guess we are going small ball with everyone else in the NBA.
Pretty sure Joerger used Barnes at the 4 in Memphis. Grit and Grind isn't necessarily play big its more a philosophy of playing hard defense, attacking the paint. We don't have Gasol/ Zbo. We have Cousins who is a hybrid of both those guys. If you want to compare us to Memphis WCS is our Tony Allen in theory, obviously needs to prove it on the court.
 
#33
Pretty sure Joerger used Barnes at the 4 in Memphis. Grit and Grind isn't necessarily play big its more a philosophy of playing hard defense, attacking the paint. We don't have Gasol/ Zbo. We have Cousins who is a hybrid of both those guys. If you want to compare us to Memphis WCS is our Tony Allen in theory, obviously needs to prove it on the court.
If Barnes is playing the 4, does that mean Gay is out of the lineup? Or is Gay at the 3? That makes some sense.. I was automatically assuming DC-Temple-Afflalo-Barnes-Cousins for a super tiny lineup lol.

Grit n Grind was aiming towards a slow pace offense dominated by slowing down the game. You're right though. We don't have a Gasol/Zbo so I don't think it would work here. WCS is nowhere the offensive player Zbo is...contrary to some popular beliefs.

Joerger isn't really known for his offensive coaching...so it'll be interesting to see what he dials up.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#35
If Barnes is playing the 4, does that mean Gay is out of the lineup? Or is Gay at the 3? That makes some sense.. I was automatically assuming DC-Temple-Afflalo-Barnes-Cousins for a super tiny lineup lol.

Grit n Grind was aiming towards a slow pace offense dominated by slowing down the game. You're right though. We don't have a Gasol/Zbo so I don't think it would work here. WCS is nowhere the offensive player Zbo is...contrary to some popular beliefs.

Joerger isn't really known for his offensive coaching...so it'll be interesting to see what he dials up.
I reckon WCS is at his best when playing C imo he will play that Brandon Wright role off the bench and either Barnes or Toliver will start games at the 4 (assuming Rudy Gay is the starting SF).
 
#36
I reckon WCS is at his best when playing C imo he will play that Brandon Wright role off the bench and either Barnes or Toliver will start games at the 4 (assuming Rudy Gay is the starting SF).
I highly, highly doubt we will start that small.

Joerger said that he will play Barnes at 4 some but he will not play him against some of the bigger guys. Barnes will spend some PF when teams go really small but majority of his minutes will come at SG and SF.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#37
I think Joerger is going away from Memphis Grit n Grind offense. Pretty evident when the reports about him wanting to play at a faster pace...

Matt Barnes at the 4 though??? Karl wouldn't even do that..... If we're talking about Harrison Barnes, it makes a lot of sense, but Matt Barnes can't play the 4.. that's insane.

I guess we are going small ball with everyone else in the NBA.
As I mentioned a few weeks ago, what is "fast paced" to a coach who has coached the slowest paced team in the league is a lot different form what is "fast paced" to an idiot child of a franchise like the Kings. He may have meant he would only like to walk it up 1 possession in 3 rather than 1 in 2. We certianly haven't been accumulating a bunch of running/jumping hyper talented vets to make it a viable strategy, and the only confirmed major weapon we hve for next year is a big center.

Also, Barnes has played some 4 the last few years, including some for Joerger last year. I don't know why Harrison would be able to and Matt wouldn't. About 1 inch difference in height, and Matt would leave Harrison a bloody pulp on the floor in a toughness contest. In any case I doubt Joerger means he's going to start Matt there, although Willie had better think about his approach before training camp and come in ready to bear down. There's several tough roleplayers who would like his gig.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#38
I highly, highly doubt we will start that small.

Joerger said that he will play Barnes at 4 some but he will not play him against some of the bigger guys. Barnes will spend some PF when teams go really small but majority of his minutes will come at SG and SF.
Toliver is not small imo he's a very decent sized PF
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#39
I reckon WCS is at his best when playing C imo he will play that Brandon Wright role off the bench and either Barnes or Toliver will start games at the 4 (assuming Rudy Gay is the starting SF).
No, he really hasn't been to this point. May never be. That lack of physicality, tendency to flutter on the glass etc. does not lend itself to be the buck stops here guy inside. Also of course dramatically lowers his value to us, as what makes him special is his ability to play next to Cuz. A backup center on the Kings could be Alexis Ajinca without too much falloff for us. Its the next to Cuz minutes that matter.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#40
Toliver is not small imo he's a very decent sized PF
He is, but he's also not a starter in the NBA. True limited minute roleplayer. Started all of 69 of 455 career games, and typically just when other guys are hurt.

Its a little bit like last year. Willie needs to step up and take his spot or we are off into the land of undersized guys and guys who shouldn't start. That would be a major comedown for a guy who's had Zach Randolph as his starting PF for years.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#41
Highlights are kind of a misnomer, but 'knows how to play" might be a summation of his appeal. From the Boris Diaw/Jared Dudley school of saavy non-athletes who make the right play. Not that there is any indication that he will reach their level. Nonetheless, kind of the anti-clueless kid.
Considering the set of IQ's that has set foot on the court in Sacramento over the seasons, I'll take a player who knows his place and plays the right way.
 
#42
I think you're missing the plan here.

Grit n Grind has come to Sacto.

Joerger is a bit like Bill Musselman in a way (Bill, not his dolt son). Worked his way up through every armpit minor league in America coaching scrubs and roleplayers and getting them to bear down, to grind out wins. Then joined the grittiest and grindiest franchise in the NBA. took over as coach with an aging unathletic crew, and again got his roleplayers to bear down and grind, hung on to a playoff spot last year with random roleplayers of every description filling most of his roster. This is his M.O. Sign guys who will bust their ass and play right, as opposed to sloppy or undisciplined talents.

Now what has amazed me is:

a) people have to leave Vivek alone now. You suspected it last year, but this summer is making it completely obvious that he must have learned his lesson. This all flies completely in the face of his limited basketball experience, is a complete 180 from jazz-ball and the pace that fired Malone. He has obviously turned things completely over to Vlade

b) Vlade himself, anybody who doesn't respect his work by this time is somebody who isn't paying attention. There are hints of Euro-flavor, but despite what I would speculate might be a preference for Princetonesque big man centric ball, this is a unique GM who appears to be absolutely in tune with his coaches. He has had two wildly different coaches, and rather than put together rosters according to his, the GM's instincts, he has put together radically different rosters apparently catered to those individual coaches.


So we are making the unsexiest moves possible, because our coach is unsexy, and our playstyle is apparently going to be unsexy. Unsexy but gritty. Tough roleplayers fighting for every possession, and then just a sprinkle of talent to try to provide us separation. Its an entirely different theory of roster construction than accumulate as much talent as you can and then try to meld the disparate parts together.
I hear ya and I hope you're right and it works out. I just don't have faith in the lineups and the players we have to be able to compete. Our 2nd most talented player (Rudy) wants nothing to do with our team/city and our franchise player is a mental midget. The other players around them are marginal at best. If it works, then great.....but the odds are heavily against us.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#43
I dig the hoarding of the "right type"of roleplayers, but this team is gonna be lacking in terms of real talent.

As much as I dislike Rudy, we need to hang on to him barring a trade for another player who can drop 18ish ppg. Nobody on our roster really seems like the type to "break out" besides DC, who will probably score around 16-18 ppg himself. ... but we're still super thin as far as offensive threats go (honestly just 3 with Cuz, Rudy, and DC).

But as Brick mentioned, Vlade has 3 months to make a move (with our limited assets). We need a backup PG (a lot of those guys have been signed in the past few days) and, if we trade Rudy, another scorer.

Vlade does that and THEN we're starting to look Grindhouse 2.0 with all these gritty scrappers Vlade has been landing us.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#44
I take it that Point Guard is no longer an important position for the Kings!

We are just filling the roster with every position, except point guard!

Vlade, how about we pick up a point guard here at some point? :eek:
I have a feeling we are going to trade for a good one. Given we have so little real talent and not enough pgs, a trade for a damn good pg must be in the works. I hope.
 
#47
I dig the hoarding of the "right type"of roleplayers, but this team is gonna be lacking in terms of real talent.

As much as I dislike Rudy, we need to hang on to him barring a trade for another player who can drop 18ish ppg. Nobody on our roster really seems like the type to "break out" besides DC, who will probably score around 16-18 ppg himself. ... but we're still super thin as far as offensive threats go (honestly just 3 with Cuz, Rudy, and DC).

But as Brick mentioned, Vlade has 3 months to make a move (with our limited assets). We need a backup PG (a lot of those guys have been signed in the past few days) and, if we trade Rudy, another scorer.

Vlade does that and THEN we're starting to look Grindhouse 2.0 with all these gritty scrappers Vlade has been landing us.
In an interview from yesterday Vlade said we're only going to make trades that will make us better. James Ham also reported we are working the phones so I assume we don't like the offers so far. My guess would be that one of the following three things are likely:
a) Rudy for Tyreke
b) Ben/Kosta for Beverley
C) Ben/Kosta for a future pick and then sign a vet PG with the remaining money: Chalmers, Cole, Udrih, Douglas are still available.

Offensively we should be fine. Cousins is your clear first open with Rudy/Tyreke as second options that give us 16-18 points per night. Collison and Afflalo will also add 12-14 points.
If Joergen can install a good defense we should get to 41 wins.

Edit: According to Bruski Alvin Gentry said on the Podcast of Zach Lowe that Tyreke will miss games at the start of the season. Ugh.
 
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