Webber: 'New' Kings are tougher

[Elise10]

Maybe it's me but why is it everytime Peja's name is not directly mentioned out of Chris's name, people are up in arms?
I don't see any of his comments as a slight of hand towards Peja or Vlade for that matter. The Kings by many were (and still are) perceived as soft. That's not by Chris's opinion alone but by many in the media as well other teams. Just taking out all of what Chris said

"From Bobby Jackson, who has always been here and who is always hotheaded and ready to go on the court. To Mike (Bibby), who everybody thinks is just smiling and nice, but who is killing people on the court.

Bobby is that fireball of energy and Mike is seen as that smiling nice but is that lethal assassin on the court. I just see Chris using two opposites to make his point.

"I don't think people realize what Matt (Barnes) has done for us as far as rebounding at the (small forward), giving us somebody who is physical in there and (taking) fouls. I just see us as a more scrappier, hustling, more meaner team.

Matt(as well the bench as an entire group) hasn't received enough recognition from most. I'm happy that Chris acknowledged that.

"With Brad (Miller) here, I like our squad."

Brad has that tough guy mentality.

"The mentality is sort of the same as far as everybody is cool and we have the same chemistry and we joke and we have fun," he said. "But we're not a bunch of silly little high schoolers like I thought we used to be. There is more intensity and maturity. (And) we're not the flopping soft cats we were perceived to be."

I believe that these two statements go back to what he said last summer and what he sees as the team(that's including Peja who we all have seen can have an aggressive streak in him when he wants to.) as taking what he said and doing exactly that.

Too much is being made into something that it really shouldn't be.

 

[love_them_kings]

something that has come up time & time again is that Webber did not like the laughing a joking that went on last year, particularly after big losses. I remember he said that players were laughing and joking around after the game 7 loss in the playoffs, and he didn't like that. I wouldn't like that either, it took me weeks to recover from that loss and I'm not a player. So, when he talks about the team acting as "silly highschoolers" I think he is talking about that mentality. Yes, it is unnecessary to makes digs at Vlade, and, yes, in general I wish CWebb would keep his mouth shut, if only because everything out of his mouth is overanalyzed and blown out of proportion. But, whether or not you think Webber is "soft", I think everyone would agree that he is passionate about the game & that he takes losses hard. I love Vlade, but I did not think that in the playoffs last year he showed the same passion for winning that Webb did, or that Webb likes to see.

I don't think the comment about flopping is that big a deal. Again, he said "that we are perceived to be". Like it or not, that is how the Kings were perceived, partially due to Vlade's ever entertaining and ingenious flopping, and part due to the fact that many of our players are "perceived" as soft.

By all appearances, Webb and Pejda are getting along fine. I guarantee that Pedja does not spend the time analyzing Webb's comments to the extent that we do, and Pedja of all people is aware of how the media can distort things, or intentionally leave things out. So, I guess I just can't worry too much about these things. Honestly, it affects us more than it does the team.

 

[ovrush]

Kind of a troubling day of reading the Bee. First, Voisin slides in another dig on Webb, then these quotes attributed to Webb. I don't necessarily know the circumstances or how much the statements were taken out of context, but I think Webb needs to either do a better job of learning his que card cliche answers, or he needs to stay away from the press. While the dig on Vlade may be true, its not necessarily very professional to be attacking certain elements of former teams that were highly successful. Additionally, although Im sure the comments about what Barnes brings to the three were not intended as a dig to Peja, they certainly can be interpreted that way. Webb's had enough problems with the media (particularly the local media) to know better. While I have been unbeleivably impressed by Webb this year and how he has bounced back from injury and shown tremendous heart, I really think he needs to work on his media savvy.

 

[PT Cruiser 9ROC]

At some point, people here need to realize that journalism is a BUSINESS first and service second. To fulfill that role, newspapers do whatever they can to sell newspapers. They'll use sensationalized headlines or "forget" certain parts of a story in order to manipulate the emotions of its readers. It's up to you to decide whether you're strong-minded enough to resist manipulation. And obviously, we've had several people blow up already over something that's obviously missing pieces of the puzzle. People here are always complaining about objectivity in the newspaper, yet when something about Chris Webber comes up, those complaints take the backseat in favor of some good old-fashioned blind, close-minded bashing. I'm not even going to mention any culprits, because it's obvious that deprecating speculation is a very big thing in this thread.

 

[KP]

At some point, people here need to realize that journalism is a BUSINESS first and service second. To fulfill that role, newspapers do whatever they can to sell newspapers. They'll use sensationalized headlines or "forget" certain parts of a story in order to manipulate the emotions of its readers. It's up to you to decide whether you're strong-minded enough to resist manipulation. And obviously, we've had several people blow up already over something that's obviously missing pieces of the puzzle. People here are always complaining about objectivity in the newspaper, yet when something about Chris Webber comes up, those complaints take the backseat in favor of some good old-fashioned blind, close-minded bashing. I'm not even going to mention any culprits, because it's obvious that deprecating speculation is a very big thing in this thread.

Gold star for the use of "deprecating speculation^". Your post is right on. People seem to want to make something out of nothing, these guys appear to be getting along fine so far this year, even if Peja has struggled a little(you can blame Webber coming back if you want to), the team is still right on pace to win 50+ and the guys seem to be happy with the year so far. This team also seems to be a little tougher on the defensive end (even though they still can't rebound)and better built for the playoffs...which I think is the point C-Webb was trying to make.

 

[acisking]

nice theory - unfortunately impossible to prove but as good as any other that is out there.

better than yours if you ask me

 

[DeAtHrOw]

are you sure your on the right fan board?

Sure am...just because I am not blind or afraid to say what I think does not make me any less of a fan than you.

 

[DeAtHrOw]

(And) we're not the flopping soft cats we were perceived to be."


If this is not a dig at Vlade then I don't know what is.

 

[iheartBrad]

oh boy

well i loved the "soft cats" last year and in years previous...and i love this younger, tougher squad we've got going here

i just love this team!!

 

[acisking]

(And) we're not the flopping soft cats we were perceived to be."


If this is not a dig at Vlade then I don't know what is.

It might be...but it doesn't take away from anything or make him evil. The Kings can't win without C-Webb. Just look at the 02-03 playoffs if you don't believe me.

 

[KP]

Sure am...just because I am not blind

You sure about that^? I saw you post that said "we all saw how good we did when Webber came back last year" yet you refuse to answer two questions. #1, if the team is so good without Webber then why did we get bounced out(By the Mavs for gods sake!) the year he went down. #2, why are we on about the same pace in an improved Western conference with Webber so far this year? We are still tops in the league in Assists and we are still up there in ppg.(The Suns are just ridiculous) even when Webber is running the offense... Why is that? I thought the offense completely stops when Webber is in there? The truth is we need both Webber and Peja to be hitting on all cylinders come playoff time and while I truly believe that Peja will step up his game there is no debate that Webber already has.

 

[mcsluggo]

-> Precisely why he should not have came back when he did. Unfortunately when you have an ego size of Russia, team does not come first and there is no way someone other than Webber should be in the spotlight.

Oh please.

(one can only assume you despise Peja for having the audacity to return in 2002 at less than 100%. Selfish bastard)

You ALWAYS have to come back before you are 100%. ALWAYS.

(Let me repeat that again for the hard of hearing ALWAYS!! ALWAYS ALWAYS!!!!)

Playing is what gets you back to 100%. It is the ONLY thing that gets you back to 100%. In fact, he came back less than 100% and finished the season less than 100%, but he STILL made a major contribution to the team in the playoffs, which was the PURPOSE of his coming back.

Hell the Kings were 1 shot away from winning against the team that was the worst matchup for them in the playoffs. They didn't suck eggs, they barely lost (which is, unfortuantley, the story of their lives)

 

[piksi]

Riiiiight. Maybe, just maybe the Kings weren't going to win a championship with Webb out

we will never know, but the fact is that we did not win it with him yet (will change hopefully)

 

[SCKingsfan]

What's Webber thinking...

Most of us agree that Webber often opens himself up to mis-interpretation; it seems to have to do with that part of him that doesn't "care about" what other people think because he wants to be the messenger of the unadulterated truth or something. I respect that approach for what it is, but it doesn't work well when you're a sports media magnet. I don't expect that will change from him, so this whole business of "when is he going to learn" seems like wasted head wagging to me.

What I think Chris does-- as it seems one of the biggest rhetorical strategies in the interviews snipets that get him in trouble--is to convince others (and himself,I think) of the notion "that was then, this is now" - that only change brings the team closer to the elusive championship. This is the way he thinks- and perhaps feels he HAS to think- to put the past behind and find the greatest motivation for the future. His focus on change in the present is to separate himself (and the team) from a past of relative failure (no ring). I'm not saying that's a great strategy, but it seems to work for his game when he's healthy. In the times I've actually heard him talk directly or indirectly about softness (outside of when he's simply pointing to the general public perception), he points NOT to when people seem soft by nature or don't play well, but when they seem not to be putting forth the effort to do their best and be intense--the exact "stepping up" mentality required to win championships. Never has he gotten on teammates (directly or indirectly) for playing badly, only for not exhibiting the kind of play that shows 100% effort and intensity. It seems he respects these qualities more than anything else - who could argue that's the difference between an excellent team and a championship team? Diplomatically, this strategy doesn't come off to well when it gets in the media unfortunately.

But let's take his words for what they are (or I guess what I"m saying they are ), not as under-the-breath digs on players he doesn't mention. If I got his line of thinking correct, I'd agree with comments made earlier in the thread: why would he mention Pedja? [although, he certainly could have mentioned Pedja's improved man-to-man defensive intensity this season]. Seriously, for those who think Webb's comments are indirect snubs on Pedja, it might be more about your own fear that it's true than what Webb is trying to say between the lines.

BTW- I'm a C-Webb AND Pedja lover, not a hater. I do think, though, that it's up to Pedja to pick up his game in the second part of the season. I like to believe that he can and will, and that he's got the support of the team--including C-Webb--to do so...

 

[piksi]

At some point, people here need to realize that journalism is a BUSINESS first and service second. To fulfill that role, newspapers do whatever they can to sell newspapers. They'll use sensationalized headlines or "forget" certain parts of a story in order to manipulate the emotions of its readers. It's up to you to decide whether you're strong-minded enough to resist manipulation. And obviously, we've had several people blow up already over something that's obviously missing pieces of the puzzle. People here are always complaining about objectivity in the newspaper, yet when something about Chris Webber comes up, those complaints take the backseat in favor of some good old-fashioned blind, close-minded bashing. I'm not even going to mention any culprits, because it's obvious that deprecating speculation is a very big thing in this thread.

Let's say that You are right in this case.
Just explain to me how comes that Brad, Mike and other Kings player never get themselves in trouble by opening their mouth ? Why is it only him ?

 

[piksi]

I have no problems with what Webber said , except the obvious digs at Vlade which IMHO are uncalled for. It's not like he was any different from the group he refers to as "soft" now. Instead of letting it go, he takes shots at a friend and ex-teammate when his back's turned.

It shows not only a lack of class but also lack of character

 

[bozzwell]

Well that all depends on how you "interpret" what went on last year.

My own best guess is that the process was something like this:

1) When Webb orignally was traded here, did not want to be in Sacto. Reported + played hard, but always had his eye on the door. So he was the best player + personable, but as often as not he let Vlade determine locker room personality + be the leader. Webber joined in as a lieutenant/co-captain, but he'd always been a follower + of mostly unsavory types (Jalen Rose, Spreewell, Rod Strrickland) and was not sure if this was "his" team or not.

2) when Webb resigned with the team he realized his championship would have to come with the Kings. First step forward for him as a leader, first time he began to shrug on responsibility for the team.

3) when Peja went down in the 2002 playoffs and Webb and Bibby carried us right to the very brink of a championship, accelerated the change. Webber began to believe in himself and the team.

4) the next season (02-03) for the first time in his life Webb begins to make clutch shots -- confidence continues to grow. He subtly steps forward as our "main" leader because we still had a lot of veteran leader/cooks int he kitchen. When he was lost in the Dallas series, this only becomes more obvious as the team looked lost and scared without him. Predictable if you lose your leader int he playoffs -- we quit believing. And the unfortunate side effect of having an injury prone leader.

5) with Webb out to begin last season, an aging Vlade makes a fateful decision. He steps forward as the team leader + the team really takes on his personality. In the absence of Webb he also finally breaks the delicate balance he has always kept between Webb as friend/co-captain and Peja as protege + chooses Peja. Vlade makes a concerted effort to make Peja into a true star before the old man's time in the NBA runs out.

6) Webb notices this. Not sure how explicit it was, but I recall the first rumblings of trouble when sometime in Jan/Feb there was an article talking about how Webb was upset because he felt "certain players" didn't want him to come back and did not feel he was necessary. Later events would suggest those players might well have been Vlade, taking sides and knowing that his Peja project would be threatened, and Peja following Vlade's lead.

7) Webb comes back, and that dynamic probably makes his push to reestablish himself as "the man" more violent that it had to be. Comes back determined to make it his team and "his" personality, and there is basically now a quiet power struggle between Vlade and Webb. Webb defines this as soft vs. hard. Peja fans as Peja vs. Webb. Whatever. Talking about the same thing + think Peja is more or less incidental -- as always mostly a passive pawn rather than a true player in the battle.

I'll buy that. Even though it makes Webber and Pedja look like insecure primadonas and Vlade like a backstabber. You're starting to convince me that it is Webber AND Pedja who don't have what it takes.

 

[iheartBrad]

Let's say that You are right in this case.
Just explain to me how comes that Brad, Mike and other Kings player never get themselves in trouble by opening their mouth ? Why is it only him ?

prolly cuz Chris is got the bad history....people don't forget stuff like that....and its been that way for him since he basically entered the league...thats why Chris is always spotlighted when he says something...do i think its right to keep beating something to death? no. But id bet my bottom dollar thats why Chris always gets in trouble...but he's not the only player in the league like that

see also:

Lattrell Spreewell
Ron Artest
Rasheed Wallace

 

[piksi]

prolly cuz Chris is got the bad history....people don't forget stuff like that....and its been that way for him since he basically entered the league...thats why Chris is always spotlighted when he says something...do i think its right to keep beating something to death? no. But id bet my bottom dollar thats why Chris always gets in trouble...but he's not the only player in the league like that

see also:

Lattrell Spreewell
Ron Artest
Rasheed Wallace

who do You get "bad history" and why do other Kings players not have it ?

 

[love_them_kings]

Sure am...just because I am not blind or afraid to say what I think does not make me any less of a fan than you.

That's true. BUT it must be depressing being a fan if you've already decided they can't win anything this year unless they get rid of Webber (which is not going to happen)

 

[KP]

Let's say that You are right in this case.
Just explain to me how comes that Brad, Mike and other Kings player never get themselves in trouble by opening their mouth ? Why is it only him ?

Cuz you don't hate them... and overanalyze everything they say?

 

[piksi]

Cuz you don't hate them... and overanalyze everything they say?

How about some examples of what they said about former or current teammates that might be misinerpreted ?

 

[love_them_kings]

You sure about that^? I saw you post that said "we all saw how good we did when Webber came back last year" yet you refuse to answer two questions. #1, if the team is so good without Webber then why did we get bounced out(By the Mavs for gods sake!) the year he went down. #2, why are we on about the same pace in an improved Western conference with Webber so far this year? We are still tops in the league in Assists and we are still up there in ppg.(The Suns are just ridiculous) even when Webber is running the offense... Why is that? I thought the offense completely stops when Webber is in there? The truth is we need both Webber and Peja to be hitting on all cylinders come playoff time and while I truly believe that Peja will step up his game there is no debate that Webber already has.

Yep. Lots of good points here. And yes, we need Webber and Peja (as well as the rest of the team) to be hitting on all cylinders AND HEALTHY come playoff time. IF that happens, we will be hard to beat in any 7 game series.

 

[KP]

How about some examples of what they said about former or current teammates that might be misinerpreted ?

The problem isn't the statements... it's your misinterpretation.

 

[piksi]

The problem isn't the statements... it's your misinterpretation.

or yours

 

[KP]

or yours

lol

touche...

 

[iheartBrad]

who do You get "bad history" and why do other Kings players not have it ?

well, its not like me to go on about things like this cuz i really don 't want a fight...and im actually trying to steer clear from one but...

Chris was disgruntled in GS...then he went to Washington...were he wasn't all that thrilled either...but he was there with good buddy Juwan Howard....then both of them were accused of some not so good things that i won't speculate about...then he gets traded to SacTown which we all know he was NOT happy at all about and let it be known to everyone...then since he's been here...he's had the whole Michigan grand jury situation...then the like two game suspension....he also has blown up to the media about talking about his personal life....and then last summers shannagans....thats what i meant when i said "history"....that makes it hard for the media to forget...so whenever he says something they run with it

 

[piksi]

well, its not like me to go on about things like this cuz i really don 't want a fight...and im actually trying to steer clear from one but...

Chris was disgruntled in GS...then he went to Washington...were he wasn't all that thrilled either...but he was there with good buddy Juwan Howard....then both of them were accused of some not so good things that i won't speculate about...then he gets traded to SacTown which we all know he was NOT happy at all about and let it be known to everyone...then since he's been here...he's had the whole Michigan grand jury situation...then the like two game suspension....he also has blown up to the media about talking about his personal life....and then last summers shannagans....thats what i meant when i said "history"....that makes it hard for the media to forget...so whenever he says something they run with it

So considering all of this wouldn't it be smarter for him to avoid giving statements like this ?

 

[KP]

I still think you are reading to much into this.

 

[iheartBrad]

So considering all of this wouldn't it be smarter for him to avoid giving statements like this ?

it would be a good idea, i guess but he can't help it...its him...and he prolly didn't even mean it to be as big of a deal as we are making it out to be