Webber: 'New' Kings are tougher

piksi said:
To the first Point - considering prior conduct certain interpretations are expected

Perhaps -- then again Webb's "great" insult to Peja this offseason was also constructed solely by interpretation. Actually as I recall VARIOUS interpretations aimed at Peja, or Bobby, or Vlade or some combination thereof...

And I also recall him, in "the interview" from the summer going out of his way to include and specifically mention Peja in his "hard workers" rant. As I recall at that time it was poor Brad being left out in the cold by omission.
 
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Bricklayer said:
Perhaps -- then again Webb's "great" insult to Peja this offseason was also constructed solely by interpretation. Actually as I recall VARIOUS interpretations aimed at Peja, or Bobby, or Vlade or some combination...

And I also recall him, in "the interview" from the summer going out his way to include and specifically mention Peja in his "hard workers" rant. As I recall at that time it was poor Brad being left out in the cold by omission.

Again - when You not specific enough - You leave lots of room for interpretations either way - I have my doubts that he himself knows what he is saying and why. Cosidering that trade deadline is fairy soon - maybe he knows something we do not.

Also Vlade was there for 6 years and CW was waiting for him to leave to say something instead being a "leader" (self proclaimed) and taking care of "issues" while there was time to change things.
 
G_M said:
[a:]I agree with some of what you say regarding overanalysis of what Webber says. I would just ask one question. Why say anything?? Is it helping the team?

[b:] Again, not to beat a dead horse but Webb has some "toughness" isssues of his own.

A; Well that line of thinking can be attached to everything that ever comes out of players mouth that doesn't resemble the following "I love this team, everyone is great and we are great"


B: True, Chris Webber will never be mistaken to Karl Malone, then again those type of physical players are few and far between, even more so in today's NBA. And while he does have toughness/softness issues as you said, he isn't what people make him out to be either. Moreover, he will never perceive himself as soft.
 
piksi said:
Again - when You not specific enough - You leave lots of room for interpretations either way - I have my doubts that he himself knows what he is saying and why.

But you know what piksi, no one in the world talks that way. Even the most trained speakers in the world, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Monarchies, civil leaders etc...all talk in vagueness.
 
ReinadelosReys said:
But you know what piksi, no one in the world talks that way. Even the most trained speakers in the world, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Monarchies, civil leaders etc...all talk in vagueness.

agreed - but they all get criticized evey day
 
piksi said:
ergo - these statements

Perhaps, but no different than for people people perceiving you as "hater" and you and others considering yourself a "critical fan." * Its all up to interpretation and no real clear true answer.

*...just for the record, I don't consider you a hater. Just someone who always looks at the glass half empty and someone very very set in their ways.
 
ReinadelosReys said:
Perhaps, but no different than for people people perceiving you as "hater" and you and others considering yourself a "critical fan." * Its all up to interpretation and no real clear true answer.

*...just for the record, I don't consider you a hater. Just someone who always looks at the glass half empty and someone very very set in their ways.

I am OK with that.
 
piksi said:
Also Vlade was there for 6 years and CW was waiting for him to leave to say something instead being a "leader" (self proclaimed) and taking care of "issues" while there was time to change things.

Well that all depends on how you "interpret" what went on last year.

My own best guess is that the process was something like this:

1) When Webb orignally was traded here, did not want to be in Sacto. Reported + played hard, but always had his eye on the door. So he was the best player + personable, but as often as not he let Vlade determine locker room personality + be the leader. Webber joined in as a lieutenant/co-captain, but he'd always been a follower + of mostly unsavory types (Jalen Rose, Spreewell, Rod Strrickland) and was not sure if this was "his" team or not.

2) when Webb resigned with the team he realized his championship would have to come with the Kings. First step forward for him as a leader, first time he began to shrug on responsibility for the team.

3) when Peja went down in the 2002 playoffs and Webb and Bibby carried us right to the very brink of a championship, accelerated the change. Webber began to believe in himself and the team.

4) the next season (02-03) for the first time in his life Webb begins to make clutch shots -- confidence continues to grow. He subtly steps forward as our "main" leader because we still had a lot of veteran leader/cooks int he kitchen. When he was lost in the Dallas series, this only becomes more obvious as the team looked lost and scared without him. Predictable if you lose your leader int he playoffs -- we quit believing. And the unfortunate side effect of having an injury prone leader.

5) with Webb out to begin last season, an aging Vlade makes a fateful decision. He steps forward as the team leader + the team really takes on his personality. In the absence of Webb he also finally breaks the delicate balance he has always kept between Webb as friend/co-captain and Peja as protege + chooses Peja. Vlade makes a concerted effort to make Peja into a true star before the old man's time in the NBA runs out.

6) Webb notices this. Not sure how explicit it was, but I recall the first rumblings of trouble when sometime in Jan/Feb there was an article talking about how Webb was upset because he felt "certain players" didn't want him to come back and did not feel he was necessary. Later events would suggest those players might well have been Vlade, taking sides and knowing that his Peja project would be threatened, and Peja following Vlade's lead.

7) Webb comes back, and that dynamic probably makes his push to reestablish himself as "the man" more violent that it had to be. Comes back determined to make it his team and "his" personality, and there is basically now a quiet power struggle between Vlade and Webb. Webb defines this as soft vs. hard. Peja fans as Peja vs. Webb. Whatever. Talking about the same thing + think Peja is more or less incidental -- as always mostly a passive pawn rather than a true player in the battle.
 
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Bricklayer said:
Well that all depends on how you "interpret" what went on last year.

My own best guess is that the process was something like this:

1) When Webb orignally was traded here, did not want to be in Sacto. Reported + played hard, but always had his eye on the door. So he was the best player + personable, but as often as not he let Vlade determine locker room personality + be the leader. Webber joined in as a lieutenant/co-captain, but he'd always been a follower + of mostly unsavory types (Jalen Rose, Spreewell, Rod Strrickland) and was not sure if this was "his" team or not.

2) when Webb resigned with the team he realized his championship would have to come with the Kings. First step forward for him as a leader, first time he began to shrug on responsibility for the team.

3) when Peja went down in the 2002 playoffs and Webb and Bibby carried us right to the very brink of a championship, accelerated the change. Webber began to believe in himself and the team.

4) the next season (02-03) for the first time in his life Webb begins to make clutch shots -- confidence continues to grow. He subtly steps forward as our "main" leader because we still had a lot of veteran leader/cooks int he kitchen. When he was lost in the Dallas series, this only becomes more obvious as the team looked lost and scared without him. Predictable if you lose your leader. And the unfortunate side effect of having an injury prone leader.

5) with Webb out to begin last season, an aging Vlade makes a fateful decision. He steps forward as the team leader + the team really takes on his personality. In the absence of Webb he also finally breaks the delicate balance he has always kept between Webb as friend/co-captain and Peja as protege + chooses Peja. Vlade makes a concerted effort to make Peja into a true star before the old man's time in the NBA runs out.

6) Webb notices this. Not sure how explicit it was, but I recall the first rumblings of trouble when sometime in Jan/Feb there was an article talking about how Webb was upset because he felt "certain players" didn't want him to come back and did not feel he was necessary. Later events would suggest those players might well have been Vlade, taking sides and knowing that his Peja project would be threatened, and Peja following Vlade's lead.

7) Webb comes back, and that dynamic probably makes his push to reestablish himself as "the man" more violent that it had to be. Comes back determined to make it his team and "his" personality, and there is basically now a quiet power struggle between Vlade and Webb. Webb defines this as soft vs. hard. Peja fans as Peja vs. Webb. Whatever. Talking about the same thing + think Peja is more or less incidental -- as always mostly a passive pawn rather than a true player in the battle.

nice theory - unfortunately impossible to prove but as good as any other that is out there.
 
Webb was half a player, Bobby was out, Brad was banged up and in and out of the lineup, but Mike kept on being Mike + has always played well with Webb, and Doug swelled up as Webber's compatriot in arms.

-> Precisely why he should not have came back when he did. Unfortunately when you have an ego size of Russia, team does not come first and there is no way someone other than Webber should be in the spotlight.
 
Riiiiight. Maybe, just maybe the Kings weren't going to win a championship with Webb out, and the only way to even hope for a championship was to get back when he did.

You think Peja's 7 point performance in game 7 would have carried the Kings to a championship by himself? HA!
 
piksi said:
I wished that Pedja and Vlade said something about the suspension and the way CW played when he came back. At least it would have put pressure on them to perform more. They did not for whatever reason - we may never find out.

I wish they would have too. I have no issue with a player who is performing, stepping up and being vocal. As long as your play backs it up. Last year during the regular season, Vlade and Pedja should have been more vocal, they should have challenged their teamates who weren't performing ... but that's not their style. The Kings this year have that style. They trash talk, they challenge each other ... and based on their 4th quarter performances this year, they step up when things get tough. Whether you hate his comments or what it does to the "chemistry", in the playoffs Chris was a warrior (as well as Mike and Doug). And his play speaks for itself this year. As far as I'm concerned, anyone can say what they want as long as they back it up on the court.
 
Webber needs to look at himself in the mirror,He maybe needs to question his toughness through the years he is even considered soft amongst media people and ex basketball columunist and commentators.He got some nerve calling his past teams soft when he has contributed to the label himself.How soft and lazy his interior defense has been even when healthy on Good leg he tends to shy away from contact underneath the rim and move to the side with his lack of bending his knees mummy defense.Trying hard to avoid injuries moving out the way of collisions not laying and sacrificing his body to the floor for loose balls.His lack of mental toughness missing key free throws after key free throws in crunch time situations although he has improved this year how many clutch free throw has webb missed through the years.


what about his body collapsing during game 5 western conference finals against the lakers when the ball clearly went out on him and his body just collapse and he spilled the ball out of bounds but the refs gave a makeup call to the kings and mike bibby came out of the timeout and saved his blunder by hitting a cluth TOUGH shot with 1.2 seconds left.Last but not least what about his nightmare that I bet he replays in his head over and over 1992 ncaa championship game michigan and north carolina the famous mentally weak phantom timeout.Wow if he is going to question someone's TOUGHNESS I think he himself needs to look in the mirrior.

Also who are these tough players he is used to playing with.Is this Howard or HEADCASE jalen rose or tim legler or super HEADCASE rod strickland.Who are these tough players he has played with.He better not be talking about Ben wallac because ben wallace didn't even have a game anyone knew of at that particular time,Rasheed wallace was a rookie who didn't play at that time.Is he talking about macho maybe TOUGH HEADCASE sprewell with no rings nothing to show for his TOUGHNESS.What is his defenition of TOUGH is what I want to know is TOUGH considered choking out the coach.Is he saying sprewell is TOUGHER than vlade.Vlade may not be shaq but I think he was just as a competitor as latrell sprewell,vlade has advanced himself and TEAMto a nba finals and I think vlade has shown TOUGHNESS.Vlade even took a shot to the mouth looseing and tooth by one of shaq's swinging 400 pound elbows.There was toughness maybe it was a different style but I have seen TOUGHNESS with the TEAMS AND PLAYERS OF THE PAST.

look at doug stand up to rick fox.I have seen rick fox get bad with the best of them, i have seen rick fox get raw with larry johnson and larry johnson isn't a soft dude.LJ used to box and he grew up in one of the hardest ghettos in Dallas the oakcliff area.Rick fox has stood up to jordan scottie piipen karl malone and there are some more that right now I can't even think of.Doug punk dude and it seemed like after that episode with rick fox and doug christie rick fox just faded away I think he was embarrassed.

Chris webber for real needs to keep his mouth shut and do his best.Homie puts a foot in his mouth everytime he opens it.He talks to much and people that do that kind of are all bark and no bite.jesus says he who's without sin cast the first stone.

LOOK AT HOW MANY TIMES HE IS LABLED SOFT

http://www.dimemag.com/feature.asp?id=1397 ctrl alt delte and soft


www.kingssuperfans.com/stories0405/122104jim.html ctrl alt delete and soft

http://www.fantasyref.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=408 ctrl alt delete and soft

http://www.slamonline.com/magazine/features/Webber70/ jalen rose even called him soft in hoighschool.


http://msn.foxsports.com/writer/archive?authorId=227 just cntrl alt dlt and soft


http://slate.msn.com/id/92207/ this one says how he plays much weaker than he looks and talks.It calls the whole team soft


http://www.madhoo.com/archives/002397.php this says he is soft around the edged along with dirk

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/viewpoints/index.ssf?/blazers/viewpoints/thefan-041304.frame michigan alumni on chris webber
 
I think I have ADD, I tried 3 times to read that post all the way through and couldn't do it. Now my head hurts.
 
I'm not a basher of any of the KINGS,but sometimeswhen PEJA disappears.....anyway,I think WEBBER gave credit where it was due,talking about D. We really don't know what goes on in the locker room,or like BRICK said ,what the media left out..
 
DeAtHrOw said:
Seriously, I really cannot understand why he does not keep his mouth shut. Either be a man and say what's exactly on your mind or shut the **** up. Unfortunately for the Kings they will not win anything significant as long as he is on the roster. CWeb was born a loser and he will die a loser.
a loser GIVE ME A BREAK...
 
SIR HENRY 8 said:
a loser GIVE ME A BREAK...



Prove me wrong. What has he won? Mark my words, Kings with Webber will NOT win anything. I hope I am wrong and I eat my words but I sincerely doubt it.
 
DeAtHrOw said:
Prove me wrong. What has he won? Mark my words, Kings with Webber will NOT win anything. I hope I am wrong and I eat my words but I sincerely doubt it.

That's such a cop out argument. I hate the "he hasn't won anything" argument. There are thousands of players and coaches who haven't "won anything". Do you realize that 28 of the current 30 NBA coaches are LOSERS. Karl Malone ... LOSER. John Stockton ... LOSER. It's such a foolish argument.
 
DeAtHrOw said:
Prove me wrong. What has he won? Mark my words, Kings with Webber will NOT win anything. I hope I am wrong and I eat my words but I sincerely doubt it.

What has anyone won on this team? Lesser titles against lesser competition at best. Every single player on the Kings is a serial failure in the NBA year after year after year. As are 90% of the rest of the players in the NBA. And yet amazingly every year some other player or coach who's never won anything in the NBA manages to step forward and somehow win the big one. Not a lot of champions on Detroit last year either. But now there are.
 
DeAtHrOw said:
Prove me wrong. What has he won? Mark my words, Kings with Webber will NOT win anything. I hope I am wrong and I eat my words but I sincerely doubt it.
are you sure your on the right fan board?
 
I have no problems with what Webber said , except the obvious digs at Vlade which IMHO are uncalled for. It's not like he was any different from the group he refers to as "soft" now. Instead of letting it go, he takes shots at a friend and ex-teammate when his back's turned.
 
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