Chupacabra
Starter
Is that you, Gary St. Jean?
We need to trade Cousins, but have to wait for his value to improve...
- Thread starter Anthony1
- Start date
Is that you, Gary St. Jean?
Anthony1
Bench
A smart GM will make a decision on a guy,and then if he has conviction, he will stick with that decision and follow through on the plan. The idea is to pump up a players value as much as humanly possible, before shipping off the player. It's only logical to do such a thing. You don't want to trade away a guy in a firesale and get hosed in the process.
I did advocate trading Tyreke, and I did say that we should showcase his talents as much as humanly possible, and basically to run our entire offense thru him, and pump up his stat line. Then trade him away while the value is halfway decent. That way, maybe we could get really, really close to fair value.
Trading a guy away when he's not playing well, or is having off the court issues, is just going to significantly degrade the value of what you're going to get back.
Section 101
All-Star
How did trading webber work out for the Warriors and Wizards?
Is he doing what we really need him to do? Stats wise, maybe. He does have stints where he does seem like a cancer emotionally and a black hole on offense.
Trading him while he's young for a proven starting veteran that can push the team can actually help the team more than just the player itself. Things can be able to run smoother with a real veteran captain. Think Chuck Hayes but actually good.
We'll have to agree to disagree. You think you're right and I think you're batpoop nuts. If you do not see improvement in Cousins, you and I are obviously not watching the same games. Using your theory, as Section 101 pointed out above, we would have traded away Webber in his first year.
Think Chuck Hayes but actually good? Instead of dealing in vague references, give me a name or three. ACTUAL living breathing players that would fit your outline. It's very easy to play video game general manager; it's a lot tougher when you're dealing with reality. Boogie is not beyond redemption. Trading him away for some nameless "proven starting veteran" could be the final nail in the coffin for this franchise.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
Celtics traded Joe Johnson, Randy Brown, and Milt Palacio to the Phoenix Suns in exchange for Tony Delk and Rodney Rodgers. yep, proven vets ftw. i think they won the championship bc of that trade.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
if a coach that actually knew what tyreke was capable of it would exploit his talent however we don't have a real coach.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Did they even have radio when you were 22?
Some of the biggest complainers in the NBA Jordan, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Barkley, Payton. Seems there is a common trend for all but one on the list.
I had one of those crystal sets! You probably don't know what I'm talking about..They came out right after they invented the wheel. Or was it before?
Padrino
All-Star
i'm confused. like, i don't remember ever being this confused by another poster at kingsfans.com. not even our resident representative from the cult of jimmermania has managed to confound me this much. what you're saying is that your strategy as GM/head coach would be to do as you should, calling for a large number of plays that feature your best player(s), increasing those players' confidence levels, maximizing those players' talents through effective game management, developing those players' consistency through usage, growing those players' chemistry with one another, and then... trade them? for what, exactly? what are the kings going to get in return for a maxed-out demarcus cousins that would be better than a maxed-out demarcus cousins? i'm just baffled, sir. completely baffled. yes, if you've got a midlevel guy like john salmons who only really shines with the ball in his hands, you "showcase" his "talent" and ship him off to an unsuspecting team who will regret it a couple of years down the road. but you don't pump up the value of potential franchise cornerstones and trade them, ya know, just because. that's lunacy of the highest order...
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Anthony1, I am with a few others who are trying to figure out your point. Give us a concrete example using Reke as the Kings player involved. Reke now seems to be unstoppable as he has a jump shot. Now that he has achieved the status of being darn near impossible to guard, hitting over 50% of his shots, hitting over 90% of his free throws and in general making the mere mortals he goes up against look silly, who should we trade him for? Now is the time for a trade if I understand what you are saying. Reke now has max value.
Once traded, how are we guaranteed that the player we get back will mesh with the Kings as well as Reke is meshing now?
Once traded, how are we guaranteed that the player we get back will mesh with the Kings as well as Reke is meshing now?
Anthony1
Bench
man, I don't know how many times I need to explain this. Ok, so most people are saying.. why would you want to pump a guy up, and then trade that guy, because if you're able to pump a guy up, then you might as well stick with the guy, because he's shown he can "be that guy" so to speak, during the period that you're pumping up his stats.
If that's what most of you are implying, then this is my take...
As a GM, you need to make decisions about your players, and the future of your team. If you decide that ulimately, DeMarcus is more trouble than he's worth, and he will never be that guy that you need him to be (both on the court and off the court and physically and mentally), then you have to stick to your convictions about that, and say, you know what... DeMarcus isn't the guy that we need on this team. Despite his talent level and everything else, he's ultimately a "net negative". Ok, so if you've come to that conclusion, and you've internally made that decision, what you DON'T do, is broadcast this information around the league, and let everybody know that you've decided to "move" DeMarcus. You have to keep that as secret as possible, don't tell a damn soul, and in fact, do the complete opposite. Praise DeMarcus at every turn, back him up at every turn, give him maximum playing time, run the offense thru him, pump up his stats as much as possible and then out of nowhere, you trade him.
The idea being, that you have this asset, an asset that you personally see as a liability, and you do everything in your power to try to hide the fact that you see that asset as a liability, because you are hoping to sell that asset for maximum value.
The decision has already been made. You've already decided that he's not in your future plans. Just cause he might start putting up some huge games, that shouldn't change your mind. All that should do, is make you smile, because you know you're going to get more in return when you are able to finally trade him away. I'm personally of the belief that people really don't change all that much. DeMarcus is what he is. He might calm down a bit over time ( a LONG time), but he's ultimately going to be a net negative wherever he goes. Get rid of him. But don't get rid of him in a firesale. Pump his value up, and then dump him like a bad habit.
If that's what most of you are implying, then this is my take...
As a GM, you need to make decisions about your players, and the future of your team. If you decide that ulimately, DeMarcus is more trouble than he's worth, and he will never be that guy that you need him to be (both on the court and off the court and physically and mentally), then you have to stick to your convictions about that, and say, you know what... DeMarcus isn't the guy that we need on this team. Despite his talent level and everything else, he's ultimately a "net negative". Ok, so if you've come to that conclusion, and you've internally made that decision, what you DON'T do, is broadcast this information around the league, and let everybody know that you've decided to "move" DeMarcus. You have to keep that as secret as possible, don't tell a damn soul, and in fact, do the complete opposite. Praise DeMarcus at every turn, back him up at every turn, give him maximum playing time, run the offense thru him, pump up his stats as much as possible and then out of nowhere, you trade him.
The idea being, that you have this asset, an asset that you personally see as a liability, and you do everything in your power to try to hide the fact that you see that asset as a liability, because you are hoping to sell that asset for maximum value.
The decision has already been made. You've already decided that he's not in your future plans. Just cause he might start putting up some huge games, that shouldn't change your mind. All that should do, is make you smile, because you know you're going to get more in return when you are able to finally trade him away. I'm personally of the belief that people really don't change all that much. DeMarcus is what he is. He might calm down a bit over time ( a LONG time), but he's ultimately going to be a net negative wherever he goes. Get rid of him. But don't get rid of him in a firesale. Pump his value up, and then dump him like a bad habit.
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Padrino
All-Star
i can't believe you're actually doubling down on this foolishness. the decision has already been made? seriously?! lemme get this straight: you're suggesting that a GM should decide to trade a talented player long before he's realized his full potential because he's a "net negative," ya know, before that potential reveals itself? and then, as he begins to realize his potential, becoming a "net positive," that same GM should commit to his initial caution, instead of deciding to roll with what's already working? what if all of that "pumping up" results in wins? you still trade him? you must really have no idea how ludicrous you sound in order to keep repeating this insanity over and over and over again...
if you trade a player like demarcus cousins, and then he finds consistent success elsewhere, you've just lost ALL of your credibility as GM, you will regret it for the remainder of your career, and you will likely never have the opportunity to draft a franchise cornerstone with cousins' potential ever again. i've said it so many times before and i'll say it again: you roll the dice with a player like demarcus. if you fail, at least you gave yourself a shot at greatness. conservatism gets you nowhere in the nba...
Anthony1
Bench
we already have rolled the dice. When we drafted him we rolled the dice. The first couple of years he's been here, we've rolled the dice. At a certain point, what you have, is what you have. I'm not talking about his potential as a basketball player. We all know that he has tremendous skill there, and could improve that skill somewhat. I'm talking about DeMarcus as a person. We've tried our best to help mold him into a more responsible, non-head case type individual and we've failed miserably. It's time to move on.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
People with tempers usually begin to calm down as they age. They also learn different ways of managing it. Cuz is not the kind of player where you say let's move on. He could be something special which is far more than could be said of others. So now the plan is to get him so he is playing great and then trade him. Is that right?
What about Tyreke? I understand you were saying the same things last year about Reke. Now that he seems to have maxed out, who do we trade him for? You never answered this question I asked yesterday.
blackice
G-League
I can understand a trade Tyreke or Thornton thread, but Cousins...really? I know he can be very frustrating to watch at times with his constant pouty faces and complaining but you got to take the good with the bad with this guy and hope he figures it out down the road. If he does we can hopefully get somewhere, if not well we have ourselves a Zach Randolph situation where he will excel elsewhere.
Anthony1
Bench
Yeah, because we have cuz under contract for another 6 years and can wait for him to "figure it out".
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
What are you, like 14?
22yrs old is not exactly old, nor exactly the man you are going to be down the road.
Anthony1
Bench
If we trade him away, the rebuild begins completely anew again. If you want the team to get better sooner, you stick with Cousins.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We in fact do.
Section 101
All-Star
You don't get it. The best way for a small market team to get a franchise type player is through the draft. It's almost impossible via free agency and not easy to do via trade.
Cuz has MVP potential you do not give up on him period.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
What is this nonsense. You must be joking, or a 16 yr old who plays far too many video games and needs to get outside more.
He's 22. Just about the entire population world wide continues to mature after age. How intelligent would it be to go around college campuses and tell every 22 yr old senior there's no hope for you, you are what you are, you won't change as a person, so you're basically s*** out of luck. That's asinine.
And no, we haven't tried our best to help him and mold him. We had an idiot coach in Westphal who ended getting fired over his treatment of Cuz, and now we have another idiot coach who's probably gone too far the other way and let's Cuz do what he likes, and tries to be his best friend instead of his actual coach.
Time to move on? He'd be a freakin senior in college if he stayed in school.
Anthonhy1 said:
Don't you get it? Most of us are refusing to give up on Cousins quite yet. You've written him off, which is clear by your first post. But you saying "it's the only logical conclusion" isn't the only logical conclusion. Using your logic, as mentioned a couple of times already, Chris Webber would have been toast before we ever got to know him.
You could end up being right, but is that what's important? You being right? Isn't the more important thing the future of a young man with an incredible amount of talent? Shouldn't he be given every opportunity to succeed before you flush him down the drain?
I'm guessing you're not a parent. If you were, you'd realize that the biggest mistake you can make is to give up on someone just because they're difficult. The biggest challenges reap the best rewards.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
It is now sunday morning, 9 Dec after 3 wins in a row, all anchored by an over powering Cuz. Minimum fouls, few or no TO's in all 3 wins. Nice double-doubles. And trade Cousins talk is even in the wind. I guess non-basketball types can find fault with anything for the sake of posting. Sure puts those types at the bottom of the knowledge pole when it comes to Kings ball.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
they'd rather have javale mcgee or channing frye
can't fault them for wanting to trade a dominant centerI am not agreeing on trading Cousins or Evans. I still believe these two will be superstars someday and they will bring back glory to this team.
But let us not shoot down those who want it, as if they don't have an iota of a valid point.
Remember, we got Webber via trade.
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