Sparky6string
Bench
Well would "offensively raw" be better? You make good points though. Is he generally considered to be the best defender in the draft? So much for the Amare comparisons.
We have to work out Wes Johnson
- Thread starter Vlade4GM
- Start date
Well would "offensively raw" be better? You make good points though. Is he generally considered to be the best defender in the draft? So much for the Amare comparisons.
D13
Bench
IMO, This is the type of stuff GP just isn't quite as good at, the BUSINESS side of basketball... he's got one of the best eyes for talent in the league, but difficult trades, negotiations, and posturing is just not his thing...
If Petrie doesn't get Johnson in for a work out and at least get a buzz going that we may take him, he's making a mistake and just giving up on setting us up in case a possible twist in things happens.
If Petrie doesn't get Johnson in for a work out and at least get a buzz going that we may take him, he's making a mistake and just giving up on setting us up in case a possible twist in things happens.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Yeah it would, but my point is that people are ignoring his defense. When you consider how young he is and that he didn't have a very good PG setting him up, he's not that raw.
Sparky6string
Bench
Right I get it- and I agree with defense being half the game. I have not seen much of Favors at all- he's the guy I have seen the least of in the top 6 or 7 I guess, maybe more than that. I just didn't have much of a chance to see him during the season and I don't think they lasted very long in the tournament, and I just assumed he would not fall to us so I didn't go back and study tape.
More than having a good PG to set him up he can just jump over everyone, from what little I've seen. So yeah as a solid defender and having scary stuff to offer on offense- he can contribute right away.
SacKings7
Starter
Of course there is always a possibility of us drafting Johnson for Minny, and then swapping him with Cousins, much like they did with the Blazers involving Brandon Roy and Randy Foye. So if I hear Cousins name called when Minny are up, I'll be disappointed, but not completely. At least not until we pick Monroe..
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I'll join Vlade at the table. And I'll one-up him by saying that no freaking way does Cousins have superstar potential. There is only one superstar big man now in the NBA and Cousins isn't close to his defensive ability, and you can't be a superstar big man without big time defensive ability. For whatever reason, and there are probably many, superstar big men have virtually become extinct in the NBA. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Cousins is going to be the exception to the rule, unless that is your standards of "superstardom" have diminished over time.
D13
Bench
Hence the at least get a buzz going part.... Most of us here are pretty much speculating, so as I stated IMO is all.... But if the case, and Johnson won't work out for us, doesn't mean we would keep him if taken... much like Cousins not working out for Timberwolves, there is still value in the business strategy of things...
Heck, I just want other teams behind us to have to consider us, just the same as we are considering the teams in front of us, to be a part of negotiations if out there... IMO of course.....
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Anthony1
Bench
I'm assuming that you're talking about Dwight Howard. What about Dirk Nowitzki and Pau Gasol? I mean, obviously, Dwight is in a league of his own among big men, but there are lots of teams that would absolutely love to have Pau Gasol and Dirk.
SacKings7
Starter
Howard (I assume you're referring to him) is a superstar because of his athleticism and his dominance on the defensive end. His offensive game is nowhere near up to par with some of the better big men in the NBA, like Gasol, Jefferson, heck even Kaman. While Cousins won't be as dominant as Dwight, he someday could be just as effective as one of the other players I mentioned, and possibly being pretty good on defense
ElRey
Starter
yeah there really is no harm in working out Johnson. Or at least acknowledging your interest in working him out like David Kahn did with Cousins. Now if Johnson refused to come for a workout, then either his agent is not very smart or he is already confirmed that Minn is taking him. You don't tip your hat to other teams on who you are going to pick and who you have no interest in.
Arby's Roast Beef
Starter
I'll do a full report on Wesley Johnson now that it seems that we could potentially draft him, given our trade for Dalembert.
Physically, Johnson appeals on a number of levels for the NBA. He's very long, and thus appears bigger than your average SF in the NBA. He's a capable leaper (37' vert), has quite large hands, and is wiry strong (he bench pressed the most out of all SFs, yet is only listed at 205 lbs). He's relatively average in his lateral quickness, but is extremely quick in the open court--can really wreak havoc here in the NBA level. On top of all that, he also conditions himself extremely well. There's almost nary a flaw to be found with Johnson physically--he looks big for his position on the court, can jump, is very fast, has length, and never gets winded. Lottery type material here for sure.
Impact-wise, Johnson wasn't a major offensive boon for his team on both the offensive and defensive ends of the court, but he was in the positive. Looking at his individual skills offensively, Johnson attempts to act as an all-around offensive player, equalizing his attempts from everywhere. Johnson takes a chunk of his shots as mid-range J's, but he's below average in this area, although his free throw percentage (77%) gives hope that this can improve. He takes another chunk as three pointers, and while he excelled this year, past years have shown this to be a trouble spot, so I'm thinking he's probably a 34-37% three point shooter in the NBA. Johnson also plays inside as well, and he's a pretty good finisher and in particular, he really looks to dunk, indicating his athleticism. While there's potential to become an all-around offensive player in the NBA, I think, like Shawn Marion, it's more like his best asset is his athletic prowess around the basket, which is then coupled with his decent shooting ability. But based on his current gameface, I think he'll attempt to be an all-around offensive player in the NBA, like Rudy Gay. Other indicators he's best served as an off-ball type is that he doesn't get to the line very well and passes the ball poorly, and a minor gripe is that he gets very few tip-ins despite the athleticism.
Johnson's in the right cloth to be an upper echelon roleplayer type, with middling possessions and a middling scoring rate for the NBA. He's also an above average rebounder for the position, and can gobble rebounds on both ends of the court. Defensively, while he has lottery-type defensive tools, he isn't much of a stealer and doesn't yield too many tip-ins, unlike someone like Shawn Marion--however, he's an excellent shotblocker for the position. Based on his defensive impact, I'd still say he's a little raw right now on this end of the court--he has tons of potential based on his shotblocking and physical tools, but Rudy Gay was the same way, and no one's calling him a defensive stopper.
Johnson's appeal, as mentioned above, largely stems from his excellent physical tools and his imposing of that athleticism through the form of dunking and shotblocking. He's certainly an athletic crowd-pleaser type, and on top of that has a decent shot and a foundation of an all-around offensive game, even if it appears to me that it's raw around the edges on both ends of the court. Johnson certainly has limitations both skillwise and imposing his physical tools: for the former, his jumper appears to be more solid/good than great IMO, and he doesn't get to the line much, intercept much or yield much in tip-ins for the latter. That probably makes his upside more in Rudy Gay territory above anything else, and he'll probably take his game that way.
Physically, Johnson appeals on a number of levels for the NBA. He's very long, and thus appears bigger than your average SF in the NBA. He's a capable leaper (37' vert), has quite large hands, and is wiry strong (he bench pressed the most out of all SFs, yet is only listed at 205 lbs). He's relatively average in his lateral quickness, but is extremely quick in the open court--can really wreak havoc here in the NBA level. On top of all that, he also conditions himself extremely well. There's almost nary a flaw to be found with Johnson physically--he looks big for his position on the court, can jump, is very fast, has length, and never gets winded. Lottery type material here for sure.
Impact-wise, Johnson wasn't a major offensive boon for his team on both the offensive and defensive ends of the court, but he was in the positive. Looking at his individual skills offensively, Johnson attempts to act as an all-around offensive player, equalizing his attempts from everywhere. Johnson takes a chunk of his shots as mid-range J's, but he's below average in this area, although his free throw percentage (77%) gives hope that this can improve. He takes another chunk as three pointers, and while he excelled this year, past years have shown this to be a trouble spot, so I'm thinking he's probably a 34-37% three point shooter in the NBA. Johnson also plays inside as well, and he's a pretty good finisher and in particular, he really looks to dunk, indicating his athleticism. While there's potential to become an all-around offensive player in the NBA, I think, like Shawn Marion, it's more like his best asset is his athletic prowess around the basket, which is then coupled with his decent shooting ability. But based on his current gameface, I think he'll attempt to be an all-around offensive player in the NBA, like Rudy Gay. Other indicators he's best served as an off-ball type is that he doesn't get to the line very well and passes the ball poorly, and a minor gripe is that he gets very few tip-ins despite the athleticism.
Johnson's in the right cloth to be an upper echelon roleplayer type, with middling possessions and a middling scoring rate for the NBA. He's also an above average rebounder for the position, and can gobble rebounds on both ends of the court. Defensively, while he has lottery-type defensive tools, he isn't much of a stealer and doesn't yield too many tip-ins, unlike someone like Shawn Marion--however, he's an excellent shotblocker for the position. Based on his defensive impact, I'd still say he's a little raw right now on this end of the court--he has tons of potential based on his shotblocking and physical tools, but Rudy Gay was the same way, and no one's calling him a defensive stopper.
Johnson's appeal, as mentioned above, largely stems from his excellent physical tools and his imposing of that athleticism through the form of dunking and shotblocking. He's certainly an athletic crowd-pleaser type, and on top of that has a decent shot and a foundation of an all-around offensive game, even if it appears to me that it's raw around the edges on both ends of the court. Johnson certainly has limitations both skillwise and imposing his physical tools: for the former, his jumper appears to be more solid/good than great IMO, and he doesn't get to the line much, intercept much or yield much in tip-ins for the latter. That probably makes his upside more in Rudy Gay territory above anything else, and he'll probably take his game that way.
Telemachus
Starter
While Cousins will never be the defensive player that Howard is, there is no reason to think he can't be a solid defensive player. OTOH, he shown the potential to be a dominant player on the offensive end of the floor & was one of the best rebounders in college this year.
To be a Superstar, you have to be a dominant player that a team can build around IMO. That doesn't mean you have to dominate at both ends of the floor. Shaq was hardly a dominate force on defense, but learned to use his size to take up space in the paint. Barkley rarely played defense unless it was the 4th quarter of a close game. Even Howard (who I assume you were referring to) only dominates on the defensive end of the court. He is no where near as good on offense as he is on defense.
My point being is that players who dominate at both ends very rare at any position. Most centers that have been considered superstars tend to be dominate on one end while being capable at the other. The Wilts & Hakeems of the world are few and far between.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Poor passer? I've never gotten that impression at all from him. He's pretty solid passer IMO, and he makes good decisions with the ball.
With Johnson's work ethic and picture perfect mechanics, there's no reason to think he won't become an exceptional shooter.
I don't think Johnson will end up like Rudy Gay. Gay is the type of player that thinks it's all about putting up points and chucking shots up. Johnson doesn't strike me as that type at all, he seems to understand the importance of the less glamorized aspects of the game, and playing within himself.
With Johnson's work ethic and picture perfect mechanics, there's no reason to think he won't become an exceptional shooter.
I don't think Johnson will end up like Rudy Gay. Gay is the type of player that thinks it's all about putting up points and chucking shots up. Johnson doesn't strike me as that type at all, he seems to understand the importance of the less glamorized aspects of the game, and playing within himself.
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Arby's Roast Beef
Starter
I made the comparison to Gay primarily due to their elite physical tools--strength and leaping ability--as well as the all-around game that both possess. Johnson's the better shooter, but Gay's the better leaper. Just look no further than Gay's and Johnson's college stats-they're strikingly similar, and even Draftexpress noted that, saying that both had an upside of Shawn Marion and a downside of Travis Outlaw. As for the passing ability, Johnson doesn't have much in the way of passing ability--he's unselfish, yes, but he doesn't make his teammates better. I really think Wesley Johnson, especially if a team wants to make him a primary offensive weapon, will really go down the road of a better shooting Rudy Gay type. It's not a bad thing.
Chupacabra
Starter
Would you agree that Cousins at least has all-star potential? Ill take a center that can make any tier of the All NBA team. I think Cousins is certainly capable of that.
Megalodon
Bench
Just because we are not working out Wes doesn't mean we don't have interest in him ... we may be worried someone will want to jump in front of us for him, or that by looking interested in cousins a trade with minny can be done where the team would pick Cousins, and minny would expect us to take Monroe due to all the workouts, but we nab Johnson instead. Of course this is assuming they end up picking sixth to still try and pickup Johnson.
There are just so many possibilities and who knows what the outcome will be. I look at it almost like a game of chess, where you are always trying to stay multiple moves in front of your opponent, not just one.
There are just so many possibilities and who knows what the outcome will be. I look at it almost like a game of chess, where you are always trying to stay multiple moves in front of your opponent, not just one.
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Vlade4GM
All-Star
I was replying to your comment that Gay has the physical tools to be a great defender, but he hasn't been. I just don't think Johnson is going to go that path, he's not going to fall in love with being a scorer like Gay has and sacrifice his defense.
I don't think you should grade down his passing ability just because he's not great at creating off the dribble. I wouldn't suggest he's a facilitator like Turner or anything, but he makes good passes and finds his teammates well.
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