We have/had interest in Wilcox maybe?

Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#61
#61
Maybe we could unload Vitaley in that deal. Reef and Vitaley would work for Wilcox asuming reports are correct that is a 3 year 24mil deal that would leave his first year around 7.5 mil or so. then we could trade Kenny Thomas for Etan Thomas thus shaving a few million off of our cap with both trades combined. Along with a line up of this.

Bibby/Salmons/Price/Hart/Douby/Garcia
Martin/Salmons/Douby/Garcia
Artest/Garcia/Salmons/Martin
Wilcox/E. Thomas/Amundson/Williamson
Miller/E. Thomas/Williams/Amundson
 
H

HaraWish

G-League
#63
#63
Well... just because of emotional reason, I want to keep Reef. As you know, he could demand more money, but he wanted to play with winning team and to play at playoffs. So he joined us, played very hard ( though his rebounding was not so good, he played solid. ), and finally went to playoffs. I just want to show respect for his attitude - I mean, his taking not so expensive contract for winning.

Besides, his contracts is very SOLID. I think it's very difficult to trade him with similar solid contract. We used him as a bench ace, and IMHO that role is quite good for him and the team.
 
R

Rome

Guest
#64
#64
Yep Reef is a bargain for the price we got him. I love his attidude and post play. We need him for bench points and offensive post. He also brings a lot of energy every night.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#67
#67
SacKings4Life21 said:
No actually he isn't lol... he was always in foul trouble and he is to short to block shots
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Blocking shots is a part of post defense, but that doesn't mean that's the main part or all it is. Using your feet, body in motion, and then using your arms to contest shots is generally post-defense. Mostly from what I saw during the season, he was an effective post-defender.
 
DaMan

DaMan

Starter
#68
#68
HaraWish said:
Well... just because of emotional reason, I want to keep Reef. As you know, he could demand more money, but he wanted to play with winning team and to play at playoffs. So he joined us, played very hard ( though his rebounding was not so good, he played solid. ), and finally went to playoffs. I just want to show respect for his attitude - I mean, his taking not so expensive contract for winning.

Besides, his contracts is very SOLID. I think it's very difficult to trade him with similar solid contract. We used him as a bench ace, and IMHO that role is quite good for him and the team.
Click to expand...
The problem is that i really don't see Seattle wanting any body other then Sar, if Wilcox is traded here.
 
Big Cuz 15

Big Cuz 15

All-Star
#69
#69
dig these trades :)

Entity said:
Maybe we could unload Vitaley in that deal. Reef and Vitaley would work for Wilcox asuming reports are correct that is a 3 year 24mil deal that would leave his first year around 7.5 mil or so. then we could trade Kenny Thomas for Etan Thomas thus shaving a few million off of our cap with both trades combined. Along with a line up of this.

Bibby/Salmons/Price/Hart/Douby/Garcia
Martin/Salmons/Douby/Garcia
Artest/Garcia/Salmons/Martin
Wilcox/E. Thomas/Amundson/Williamson
Miller/E. Thomas/Williams/Amundson
Click to expand...
 
NoBonus

NoBonus

Starter
#70
#70
I would hate to lose SAR because he has had such a good attitude all season when starting or coming off the bench and was so consistant in the playoffs. However, if the deal is for Chris Wilcox... I guess that is the price you pay... it would be a big plus if they took KT instead of SAR though, but why would they?
 
H

hammystyle

Starter
#71
#71
NoBonus said:
it would be a big plus if they took KT instead of SAR though, but why would they?
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They're a very bad rebounding team (I think worse than the Kings), so KT would be their best rebounder. They also have young shotblocking centers and a backup in Nick Collison who could cover a lot of KT's deficiencies.

I still think they'd rather have SAR because I think post scoring is a need as well and SAR is obviously the better all around player, but these are some reasons they may be interested.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#72
#72
Height

SacKings4Life21 said:
No actually he isn't lol... he was always in foul trouble and he is to short to block shots
Click to expand...
SAR is 6'9" and weighs 255. I don't think thats too short to play power forward in this league. I seem to remember him doing a pretty good job on Duncan defensively. I've always been a big fan of SAR's all the way back to Cal. At this moment in time he is a better player than Wilcox. Wilcox is still an unproven player, and 20 or 30 games at the end of a season doesn't make him a superstar.
As far a coming off the bench. If nothing changes it would probably be KT coming off the bench. He's simply not as good a player as SAR.

I'm not saying we shouldn't make a trade of SAR for Wilcox, but know that your trading for youth and great potential that may or may not ever be as good as SAR.:cool:
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#73
#73
When you look at it. Brad and Reef defended Duncan better than Dallas' big men did. It was that pesky little bastard Parker that kicked out butts with penetration.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#74
#74
bajaden said:
SAR is 6'9" and weighs 255. I don't think thats too short to play power forward in this league. I seem to remember him doing a pretty good job on Duncan defensively. I've always been a big fan of SAR's all the way back to Cal. At this moment in time he is a better player than Wilcox. Wilcox is still an unproven player, and 20 or 30 games at the end of a season doesn't make him a superstar.
As far a coming off the bench. If nothing changes it would probably be KT coming off the bench. He's simply not as good a player as SAR.

I'm not saying we shouldn't make a trade of SAR for Wilcox, but know that your trading for youth and great potential that may or may not ever be as good as SAR.:cool:
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SAR does not weigh 255. No way. He's anything but burly. And he's never blocked shots. Ever. Once many years ago I think he snuck in over 1 a game one season. Heck, Brad has done that. So its not really important whether he is tall enough to theoretically do it or not because he has neither the timing, instincts nor mentality to be a factor like that. Finesse player. Pretty scorer. Not an interior intimidator.

As for Wilcox/SAR -- SAR has the pedigree, and I do not trust Wilcox's emergence. That said, at the end of last season for Seattle Wilcox was a better power forward for them than SAR has been in years. Not sure how I would feel about swapping SAR for Wilcoz -- bird in the hand and all that, and not a clear upgrade in talent. But if Wilcox maintained his level of play, it could work out.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#75
#75
so whats the word on this? Is it still a solid rumor that he is being signed to be traded or is he being signed to be a part of the sonics next season? I like Reef and everything he gave us. I didn't like his rebounding. I feel Wilcox can give us everything Reef did for a longer period of time but, he can rebound better.
 
Circa_1985_Fan

Circa_1985_Fan

All-Star
#77
#77
Something has to be up with this, otherwise there would have been movement with this a few days ago when the reports came down, from both the Sonics and his agent that he was about to sign for 3 years. Hmm...
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#78
#78
that is what i was thinking. If he was just going to sign with the sonics for 3 years 24 mil it would be done or at least almost done. All of a sudden there is a silence that means a sign and trade could be in the works
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#80
#80
Bricklayer said:
SAR does not weigh 255. No way. He's anything but burly. And he's never blocked shots. Ever. Once many years ago I think he snuck in over 1 a game one season. Heck, Brad has done that. So its not really important whether he is tall enough to theoretically do it or not because he has neither the timing, instincts nor mentality to be a factor like that. Finesse player. Pretty scorer. Not an interior intimidator.

As for Wilcox/SAR -- SAR has the pedigree, and I do not trust Wilcox's emergence. That said, at the end of last season for Seattle Wilcox was a better power forward for them than SAR has been in years. Not sure how I would feel about swapping SAR for Wilcoz -- bird in the hand and all that, and not a clear upgrade in talent. But if Wilcox maintained his level of play, it could work out.
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SAR's weight has varied from 235 to 255 at different times in his carreer, but thats not important. I just get tired of people talking about this player or that player being undersized when they don't have a clue what their talking about. I never said that he was a shot blocker, because he isn't. He is however a decent to good at times man on man defender and good team defender. He did a good job on Duncan in the one play-off game and after that every time he got near Duncan they called a foul. Could Wilcox be better, well, we agree on that subject. I was a big fan of Wilcox coming out of college, but I was also a big fan of the Kandi man coming out of college and we all know how that worked out.
 
R

Rome

Guest
#81
#81
I don't think you can look at SAR's stats from this season and judge him by that. He will grab at least 8-10 rebounds per game this season with Bonzi out if he starts and will still not be a shot blocker but will play with the same defense in the post. And depending on how we use him, he will be a great inside presence in the season and playoffs. He has the opportunity to prove him self once again this season.

Now if somehow we can get rid of Brad Miller and KT I would be happy. Brad doesn't even care about the word defense and KT should not be in our starting lineup.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#82
#82
Agreed ^. He hasn't had a full season of starting since Atlanta in 02-03.

Then went to Portland and came off the bench for 29 games, started three. Overall on 03-04, got 7.5 Next season in 04-05 he hurt his wrist I think, and played 54 games and got 7.3. Then with the Kings he was getting in the 7s/high 6s. Then got the freak elbow to the jaw, and of course came back and was recovering for the rest of the year. Steadily gaining strength back, but not at regular and coming off the bench.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shareef_abdur-rahim/index.html?nav=page

Not sure he starts this season, but if he does, I look for him to get in the 8 area for rebounding.
 
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Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#83
#83
SAR, numbers as STARTER:

05-06: 35.0min 16.0pts 6.2reb
04-05: 35.9min 17.5pts 7.6reb

At this point you have to be happy if he gets you 8, and 8 in big minutes is crap for a PF. Is quite helpful for a lottery team though.

As an aside, I've made this comparison before:

Wayman Tisdale
91-92: 35.0min 16.6pts 6.5reb
92-93: 30.0min 16.6pts 6.6reb
93-94: 32.4min 16.7pts 7.1reb
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#84
#84
8 is crap??? are you aware that out of all the players in the NBA only 28 players averaged over 8 reb per game? 10 of those 28 players are centers leaving 18 PF's that averaged 8 or more reb per game. Now out those 19 PF in the league that did average 8 or more 5 of them you think are tweeners or "crap". that leaves 13. 1 of those is not a pf he is a sf. 1 of those we had with Webber you never was a big fan of his so that leaves 11 PF's that aren't crap or tweeners

Dwight Howard
Emeka Okefor
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Jermaine O'neal
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitski
Elton Brand
Chris Bosh
Troy Murphy (crap to me)
Shawn Marion

Now out of that list of PF's which ones do you really think we could get for anything?????? If you can't come up with an answer just be happy with SAR
Because everyone on that list Except for Murphy (crap) and Shawn Marion (Tweener) are staples on their team.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#85
#85
As far as not having a PF averaging 8 reb would send you to the lottery. Do you realize the starting PF for the World Champion Miami Heat averaged 7.8 KT averaged 7.5 Miller 7.8 and Bonzi 7.7

Really now i realize you don't like SAR or any PF we have had in the last quarter century but, It is quite alright to have a PF average less than 8 reb a game. Now before you say anything about if they didn't they had a center that averaged alot. you may want to check out teams total rebounds between their PF and C combined you would be suprised where we stand and take into consideration we had the league leading rebounder that wasn't a PF/C
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#86
#86
Entity said:
8 is crap??? are you aware that out of all the players in the NBA only 28 players averaged over 8 reb per game? 10 of those 28 players are centers leaving 18 PF's that averaged 8 or more reb per game. Now out those 19 PF in the league that did average 8 or more 5 of them you think are tweeners or "crap". that leaves 13. 1 of those is not a pf he is a sf. 1 of those we had with Webber you never was a big fan of his so that leaves 11 PF's that aren't crap or tweeners

Dwight Howard
Emeka Okefor
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Jermaine O'neal
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitski
Elton Brand
Chris Bosh
Troy Murphy (crap to me)
Shawn Marion

Now out of that list of PF's which ones do you really think we could get for anything?????? If you can't come up with an answer just be happy with SAR
Because everyone on that list Except for Murphy (crap) and Shawn Marion (Tweener) are staples on their team.
Click to expand...

Flying off the handle again Entity?

8rebs for a BIG MINUTE PF is crap. Read before you flame. Its essentially the cutoff point between the minimally acceptable but weak, and the guys who need to be replaced.

8reb for a big minute PF (let's just say 36min for simple math) = about 10.67 per 48min. That is below average for a PF, heading toward bad. Would have landed you at about 84th on the PF list last year. And that's from the guy getting the majority of your minutes. Puts you in rebounding distress unless you have a big rebounding center, or maybe a superstud little OG to pick up the slack.

MINUTES Entity. MINUTES. Udonis Haslem averaged 29.5. In 36 min that is 9.0rebs/gm. Still mediocre, but enough when you are playign next to Shaq and Zo.

P.S. As an aside, I beleive you are the first person on this board to acuse me of not liking Webb. Refreshing.
 
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Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#87
#87
run that list again with the PF averaging 10.67 per 48 and do only qualified leaders. Because if you get a guy that plays 2 min and gets 1 reb he is geting 24reb per 48min. Now you can do the 48 min thing and argue your point with any stat. I was looking at actual stats. only 17 actual PF's that started got over 8 reb per GAME not the ficticious 48 min deal that ppl use to pad their point. Now i can Argue that Jamal Samson was one of the top rebounders in the league per 48 min. Guess what he is number 1 on that list. Now if you do ppl that are qualified per 48 min that actually played enough min to qualify well guess who is 14th on that list. Our own Kenny Thomas.

per 48 min here are some of the players that Kenny Thomas beat out.

Chirs Webber
Elton Brand
Udonis Haslem
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol

Drew Gooden is 8th in the league of qualified players at reb per 48 min
 
R

Rome

Guest
#88
#88
Reef is a lot like Antawn Jamison and Al Harrington.

He's a very valuable player and especially at the price we got him. No he's not a tough typical PF who blocks shots and grabs rebounds with no effort but I wouldn't just trade him for someone who you think might be better. He's still a great scorer for any offense and is a pretty decent defender.

I would be ok if he played like he did in his 03-04 season. He's still a great player to have in the bench and help back up the 4 and sometimes the 5 position. Plus he provides scoring off the bench.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#89
#89
And yes Entity, it took you a while but eventually you made it to the obvious conclusion: last year the Kings had exactly TWO acceptable rebounders on the team: Bonzi Wells, and Kenny Thomas. Kenny was a good but not great PF rebounder at about 12.9/48. Up above the 70th percentile. That 12.0 mark is roughly the cutoff for power players BTW. That's 9.0 in 36min. Above that and you are above average heading toward strong. Top 1/3 regardless if you filter for "qualifiied" or not.

That is a good PF rebounder. A guy struggling to get 10 if you play him the whole 48 is not. A guy getting you 10 per 48 is bottom 1/3. Garbage on the glass. And a guy getting you 8.0 in 36 min (10.67/48) is only half a step ahead. Below average (about 40th percentile) and heading for the basement. If you were going to letter grade him, it would be right on the border of a C-/D+.


As an aside, the "Qualified" list is more or less a random and bogus distinction. A line drawn in the sand. Taking it off lets in a few garbage players at the front of the line, but simultaneously adds in a few at the back to balance it out. What changes is that you actually get to include extremely legit NBA players ala a Reggie Evans, Ike Diogu or Kenyon Martin, rather than randomly toss them overboard. The filter does not change relative position at all, just provides a less complete picture.
 
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