WCS
- Thread starter Kingsfan23
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You mean like this? :
https://mobile.twitter.com/aaronbruski/status/714257858653659137
https://mobile.twitter.com/aaronbruski/status/714257858653659137
Willie put up a 15.3 PER last year. For a rookie, that's very much worth giving more minutes. Myles Turner only put up a 15.4.
This year Willie is putting up a 2.9 PER.
Its like he's completely quit. The lack of focus seemed to be there in summer league, and its never come back. No idea what happened, but if I saw him on the street I'd grab a step ladder and give him a good hard slap to wake him up.
This year Willie is putting up a 2.9 PER.
Its like he's completely quit. The lack of focus seemed to be there in summer league, and its never come back. No idea what happened, but if I saw him on the street I'd grab a step ladder and give him a good hard slap to wake him up.
You see, this is clear evidence that Karl was a superior coach last year. He was able to get Willie in the right spots, gave him the correct minutes and most of all, Karl was a great motivator. Joerger on the other does not seem to have clue. I can't wait for Vlade to can him so we can find a better fit for this team.
JK.
I just find it interesting that it only took 6 games to do a 180 on Willie.
JK.
I just find it interesting that it only took 6 games to do a 180 on Willie.
there are two parts to the Willie question:
1) what the bleep is up with him personally. Somebody help him search his sock drawer for his cahones (not me!)
and
2) and here is the critical one that might merit lack of patience, can a reasonably engaged Willie EVER be the style of player Joerger wants his big men to be. Because I have my doubts. When Brandon Wright showed up in Memphis he never made an impact and could not replace Koufos for Joerger. Joerger's best frontlines in Memphis were all beef, and with lots of scoring punch. The very first thing we saw Joerger try to do with Willie in summer league was use him as an offensive weapon, an odd thing to do with a skinny theoretical defensive specialist. Now of course Willie's taken to fluttering around and letting out little squeaks everytime there is a board battle. And so if this is just about Willie you can have patience, or if you're spooked enough you can try to move him before the rest of the league realizes yet another of our lotto picks has turned into a pumpkin. But if this is at least partly about Joerger's system and the types of big men he likes, well that isn't going to resolve, and in that case if you think Joerger is going to be here, and I do, then you might as well start looking for a more appropriate guy now while Willie still has some value left, rather then have him struggle like this all year and not be able to get much back for him.
1) what the bleep is up with him personally. Somebody help him search his sock drawer for his cahones (not me!)
and
2) and here is the critical one that might merit lack of patience, can a reasonably engaged Willie EVER be the style of player Joerger wants his big men to be. Because I have my doubts. When Brandon Wright showed up in Memphis he never made an impact and could not replace Koufos for Joerger. Joerger's best frontlines in Memphis were all beef, and with lots of scoring punch. The very first thing we saw Joerger try to do with Willie in summer league was use him as an offensive weapon, an odd thing to do with a skinny theoretical defensive specialist. Now of course Willie's taken to fluttering around and letting out little squeaks everytime there is a board battle. And so if this is just about Willie you can have patience, or if you're spooked enough you can try to move him before the rest of the league realizes yet another of our lotto picks has turned into a pumpkin. But if this is at least partly about Joerger's system and the types of big men he likes, well that isn't going to resolve, and in that case if you think Joerger is going to be here, and I do, then you might as well start looking for a more appropriate guy now while Willie still has some value left, rather then have him struggle like this all year and not be able to get much back for him.
I think there are a couple of things we have to keep in mind when it comes to Willie. One is that he certainly different. A seven footer that's a freak athlete. As a result of that, one has a tendency to expect more from him. Rightly or wrongly. Second, Willie came to the game of basketball late, which put him behind the curve somewhat from the get go. However, Calapari raved about how fast he picked up the game, for what that's worth. Third, he's only played six games of his second season in the NBA. The rule of thumb is that it takes three years for a big man to come up to speed. Sometimes a bit longer. So it may be a bit premature to start passing any long term judgement on Willie.
However, you make some good points in regards to the type of player or big man that Joerger likes for his system. Willie isn't a bruiser, and probably won't ever be one. At Kentucky he never shied away from contact, but he never won that many battles against bigger stronger players either, which is why Calapari used him as a rim runner for the most part. It could be that he doesn't fit what Joerger is trying to do. At least not in the present. So the question is, will he ever, or can he ever, fit into Joerger's system? If Joerger can't play him to his strengths, then there's no point of having him on the floor. Maybe they should send him to Reno with a boatload of protein drinks, a set of weights, and see what emerge's at the end of the year.
I like Willie and I wanted him here, but so far, it hasn't worked out the way I thought it would, for whatever reason. That said, I'd hate to give up on a player with his abilities so quickly. The player we see three years from may in no way resemble the player we see now. One of the problems the Kings have had over the years is that they give up on players, or they don't think they fit into the current system. Rule number one should be, don't draft young players and expect them to be your savior. It took an act of god to get Gerald Wallace into a game when Adelman was the coach, and Wallace turned out OK. We need to be patient, and lower our expectations. Them maybe we'll end up being surprised when a player like Richardson gets his chance to play, and he plays well.
However, you make some good points in regards to the type of player or big man that Joerger likes for his system. Willie isn't a bruiser, and probably won't ever be one. At Kentucky he never shied away from contact, but he never won that many battles against bigger stronger players either, which is why Calapari used him as a rim runner for the most part. It could be that he doesn't fit what Joerger is trying to do. At least not in the present. So the question is, will he ever, or can he ever, fit into Joerger's system? If Joerger can't play him to his strengths, then there's no point of having him on the floor. Maybe they should send him to Reno with a boatload of protein drinks, a set of weights, and see what emerge's at the end of the year.
I like Willie and I wanted him here, but so far, it hasn't worked out the way I thought it would, for whatever reason. That said, I'd hate to give up on a player with his abilities so quickly. The player we see three years from may in no way resemble the player we see now. One of the problems the Kings have had over the years is that they give up on players, or they don't think they fit into the current system. Rule number one should be, don't draft young players and expect them to be your savior. It took an act of god to get Gerald Wallace into a game when Adelman was the coach, and Wallace turned out OK. We need to be patient, and lower our expectations. Them maybe we'll end up being surprised when a player like Richardson gets his chance to play, and he plays well.
Like the majority of posters here I'm concerned about the entensity WCS has displayed this season. That said I don't think it's time to panic. Bigs take time to develop and WCS won't be an exception to that. Let him ride that bench until he acts like a 7' Quincy Acy because if he can do that we can use that especially off the bench to run with the athletes we have there.
I don't mind the viewpoint that we shouldn't move him, although I might disagree, but can we agree he needs to be earning his time? One of the problems we had being competitive the last few years was allowing Ben to be a sinkhole on the roster. If your not ready to contribute you shouldn't be playing IMO
I have no argument with that premise. Willie isn't in college anymore, so he has nothing to do everyday but work on his game and get better. If he works hard, he will get better, and who knows, he may actually become better than we expect.. So I have no problem with Joerger using Willie in a way that helps him learn and succeed. If I were Joerger, I'd have Willie living in the weight room.
Its been frustrating but I do not think its anywhere near time to give up on WCS and trade him. He was penciled in as a big time piece to our future when we spent our 6th pick on him so the organization has to give him more time and guidance. With his physical tools he could be a menace in this league. The only question left is does he want it bad enough? that is a question only he can answer.
Marquese Chriss gets his first start today and has been tearing it up out there(for a teenager). I really hope we don't regret letting a local potential stud slip away from us, all of these guys picked after our guys in the past few years are growing into big roles while Ben and Willie can barely dribble a basketball out there. Its starting to feel like we might never hit on a draft pick.
Marquese Chriss gets his first start today and has been tearing it up out there(for a teenager). I really hope we don't regret letting a local potential stud slip away from us, all of these guys picked after our guys in the past few years are growing into big roles while Ben and Willie can barely dribble a basketball out there. Its starting to feel like we might never hit on a draft pick.
Its been frustrating but I do not think its anywhere near time to give up on WCS and trade him. He was penciled in as a big time piece to our future when we spent our 6th pick on him so the organization has to give him more time and guidance. With his physical tools he could be a menace in this league. The only question left is does he want it bad enough? that is a question only he can answer.
Marquese Chriss gets his first start today and has been tearing it up out there(for a teenager). I really hope we don't regret letting a local potential stud slip away from us, all of these guys picked after our guys in the past few years are growing into big roles while Ben and Willie can barely dribble a basketball out there. Its starting to feel like we might never hit on a draft pick.
Marquese Chriss gets his first start today and has been tearing it up out there(for a teenager). I really hope we don't regret letting a local potential stud slip away from us, all of these guys picked after our guys in the past few years are growing into big roles while Ben and Willie can barely dribble a basketball out there. Its starting to feel like we might never hit on a draft pick.
Baja, I would normally agree with this point of view if it were any other team other than the Kings.... having said that, I have to disagree with this. Our draft choices have been so abysmal the last 8-10 years that a good chunk of them are either out of the league or fringe NBA players. Jimmer, Robinson, Stauskas, McLemore, JT.... Our biggest successes after Cousins are Hawes (who isn't all that good), Whiteside (things clicked for him long after we drafted him, bit of an anomaly) and Evans (who was great initially but literally got worse with every season -- injuries happened often). That's not a great list.
It's not like any of these players left the Kings and then all of a sudden lit the league on fire. Only Hassan Whiteside was able to figure things out, and he himself was out of the league playing overseas before things came to fruition and he turned into the player he is today. Tyreke Evans could have been something if he wasn't injured 90% of the time or if he had any sort of bball IQ, but alas he turned out to be a role-player too. I think WCS will join this group of guys as well, as there isn't really anything he excels at. Sure, defense is his calling card, but part of defense is grabbing defensive boards so the other team doesn't get extra possessions and he doesn't do that at all. He's not an offensive player at all. Can't shoot, dribble, pass, or back anyone down. He is a one trick pony and he isn't a young rookie either.
I say cash in on him right now before we screw that up too.
It's not like any of these players left the Kings and then all of a sudden lit the league on fire. Only Hassan Whiteside was able to figure things out, and he himself was out of the league playing overseas before things came to fruition and he turned into the player he is today. Tyreke Evans could have been something if he wasn't injured 90% of the time or if he had any sort of bball IQ, but alas he turned out to be a role-player too. I think WCS will join this group of guys as well, as there isn't really anything he excels at. Sure, defense is his calling card, but part of defense is grabbing defensive boards so the other team doesn't get extra possessions and he doesn't do that at all. He's not an offensive player at all. Can't shoot, dribble, pass, or back anyone down. He is a one trick pony and he isn't a young rookie either.
I say cash in on him right now before we screw that up too.
Its been frustrating but I do not think its anywhere near time to give up on WCS and trade him. He was penciled in as a big time piece to our future when we spent our 6th pick on him so the organization has to give him more time and guidance. With his physical tools he could be a menace in this league. The only question left is does he want it bad enough? that is a question only he can answer.
Marquese Chriss gets his first start today and has been tearing it up out there(for a teenager). I really hope we don't regret letting a local potential stud slip away from us, all of these guys picked after our guys in the past few years are growing into big roles while Ben and Willie can barely dribble a basketball out there. Its starting to feel like we might never hit on a draft pick.
Marquese Chriss gets his first start today and has been tearing it up out there(for a teenager). I really hope we don't regret letting a local potential stud slip away from us, all of these guys picked after our guys in the past few years are growing into big roles while Ben and Willie can barely dribble a basketball out there. Its starting to feel like we might never hit on a draft pick.
You know, I get so tired of this. I really do. I've very tired of having to go step by step and refute all your points. Willie can dribble the ball just fine for a seven footer. The fact that you haven't see him do it much doesn't mean he incapable. For heavens sake, he's just starting his second year in the league and you have him as a bust already. Can we give him three years at least. I could name you hundreds of players that were terrible their first year in the league that ended up being good players. Some of them became stars. This proclamation crap needs to stop. You, and I, at this point in time, have no idea at all how good Willie is going to be. But the idea that a player like him isn't going to improve is nuts.
As for the Kings history of drafting, all you can hold Vlade responsible for is Willie, and this years draft. In my humble opinion, the jury is out on all of them. And it should be. On a good team, which the Kings haven't been, a rookie, unless his name is Jordan or Lebron, has a hard time getting on the floor unless it's garbage time. As I pointed out in another thread, Gerald Wallace as a rookie had to beg to get on the floor when he was with the Kings. He ended up being an all star. Rookies shouldn't be expected to be our saviors. They should be looked at as the possible future of the team, with the emphasis on future.
The Kings had a good history of drafting until the Maloofs ran out of money and starting butting into the draft. Trust me, if Petrie had his way, he never would have drafted either Fredette or Robinson. Petrie had never drafted a player he hadn't seen or worked out, and that's what happened with Robinson. My point is, whether we like it or not, there were circumstances involved in both those picks. And regardless of that circumstance, that was then and this is now, and Vlade isn't responsible for any of that. By the way, I can't believe that you think Tyreke doesn't have BBIQ. You may be one of about ten people in the world that believes that. Tyreke has his flaws, but lacking BBIQ isn't one of them. Just my opinion....
As for the Kings history of drafting, all you can hold Vlade responsible for is Willie, and this years draft. In my humble opinion, the jury is out on all of them. And it should be. On a good team, which the Kings haven't been, a rookie, unless his name is Jordan or Lebron, has a hard time getting on the floor unless it's garbage time. As I pointed out in another thread, Gerald Wallace as a rookie had to beg to get on the floor when he was with the Kings. He ended up being an all star. Rookies shouldn't be expected to be our saviors. They should be looked at as the possible future of the team, with the emphasis on future.
The Kings had a good history of drafting until the Maloofs ran out of money and starting butting into the draft. Trust me, if Petrie had his way, he never would have drafted either Fredette or Robinson. Petrie had never drafted a player he hadn't seen or worked out, and that's what happened with Robinson. My point is, whether we like it or not, there were circumstances involved in both those picks. And regardless of that circumstance, that was then and this is now, and Vlade isn't responsible for any of that. By the way, I can't believe that you think Tyreke doesn't have BBIQ. You may be one of about ten people in the world that believes that. Tyreke has his flaws, but lacking BBIQ isn't one of them. Just my opinion....
None of the rookies is tearing it up. Unless you count Embiid. Some aren't getting that much of a chance, and some are doing what most rookies do, struggle. The step up from college to the NBA is a bigger step than most realize. The only player that I think would be able to come in and make an impact is Simmons, and he's injured. Which is a prerequisite to play for the 76'ers. Dunn would be my second choice. Chriss needs to get a lot stronger, but he looks like he's going to be a good player down the road a bit.
Its been frustrating but I do not think its anywhere near time to give up on WCS and trade him. He was penciled in as a big time piece to our future when we spent our 6th pick on him so the organization has to give him more time and guidance. With his physical tools he could be a menace in this league. The only question left is does he want it bad enough? that is a question only he can answer.
Marquese Chriss gets his first start today and has been tearing it up out there(for a teenager). I really hope we don't regret letting a local potential stud slip away from us, all of these guys picked after our guys in the past few years are growing into big roles while Ben and Willie can barely dribble a basketball out there. Its starting to feel like we might never hit on a draft pick.
Marquese Chriss gets his first start today and has been tearing it up out there(for a teenager). I really hope we don't regret letting a local potential stud slip away from us, all of these guys picked after our guys in the past few years are growing into big roles while Ben and Willie can barely dribble a basketball out there. Its starting to feel like we might never hit on a draft pick.
Stien is saying word out of Sac is WCS isn't happy with his role in Sac. Pretty ballsy for a guy who hasnt done anything in the NBA. For what it's worth here is a blurb out of Boston
http://redsarmy.com/2016/11/11/repo...sArmy+(Red's+Army:+The+Voice+Of+Celtics+Fans)
http://redsarmy.com/2016/11/11/repo...sArmy+(Red's+Army:+The+Voice+Of+Celtics+Fans)
Willie needs to cut his attitude. You're a 2nd year player who's extremely limited on offense. He was complaining about his offensive role under Karl. Nobody on here can tell me that Karl mistreated WCS on offense. Karl played him the way everyone expected WCS to be played. Again, I bring up the fact that Willie was a rookie trying to throw his HOF coach under the bus. He needs to really stop with that.
He can get a bigger role if he earns it. So far, he hasn't earned a single thing. Not sure why he's all up in arms. When you put up pathetic rebounding numbers for a 7ft big, expect your PT to decrease. Easy math.
He can get a bigger role if he earns it. So far, he hasn't earned a single thing. Not sure why he's all up in arms. When you put up pathetic rebounding numbers for a 7ft big, expect your PT to decrease. Easy math.
I don't know what up with Willie. Perhaps he thinks he is better than he actually is and shouldn't have to work hard. Whatever it is, it was apparent during Summer League and has carried over. Motor has always been a problem for him, and it's not something that you magically obtain. It's reasonable to not expect anything productive from WCS this year.