Voisin: Vlade makes mature move dealing with Karl

[Showtime]

I don't think anyone is questioning if Cousins is good or not. It's more about his mental state and ability to play 100% every night and not create a toxic/disgruntled environment even if the Coach sucks.

Aren't those mutually exclusive? If a player cannot seem to manage to deal with adversity enough to give 100% effort every night and his personality is divisive, doesn't that contribute to how good a player is? If Sheed had the mentality of Duncan, wouldn't he be a better player? If Duncan had Sheed's approach, wouldn't he be worse off?

 

[HndsmCelt]

The problem I have is that today's NBA is more star-friendly than ever, and we have seen franchise players like Kobe, Chris Paul, Dwight, and Lebron carry average teams on their backs to .500. I am willing to admit that Cousins needs more around him to be successful if other people are willing to admit that he may not be as good as people think he is. He isn't the only one at fault here, but he's a factor.

I am sure that the horse meat is now good and tender.

 

[ForlornKing]

I think it's a lot harder than we thought in modern day NBA to win with a big guy as your star.

 

[Blob]

On this message board it is dangerous to criticize DeMarcus - you will be crushed by a lot of articulate educated and passionate posters.

I've been a DeMarcus supporter because Brick tells us he is a hall of famer, a generational talent, the kind of big man you only get one shot at. And I get all that - I see how well he can play. I see the stats Brick shows us. And it is obvious that he's being tactically mis-used.

But, for Brick or anyone else... when you compare him to Hakeem and Wilt - you seem to disregard the professionalism aspect. I would rather have a dickhead put up 30-15 than a nice guy put up 18-9, just like most of us. but...

But... DeMarcus takes the ref whining and tantrums to a new level. You take Derrick Coleman's emotional maturity/mental health and put it in the superstar big man talent set - do you have a hall of famer/generational talent anymore? Or do you have Rasheed Wallace as a self-imposed ceiling?

This board does cartwheels to turn a blind eye toward DeMarcus' crazy antics. It is not objective. I've been fairly slow to grow weary of it - but I have become fed up, just fed the eff up, with DeMarcus' crybaby antics. It makes the game as "un-fun" to watch as Rondo's gambley passes & swagger make it "fun" to watch.

I want DeMarcus to succeed in Sacramento but if he goes, I will not stop being a Kings fan. We did not have a Pat Riley to keep him in line. We didn't draft well while we had our DeMarcus window. We had bozo coaches.

Only think that will make you get out your flame suit faster than criticizing DeMarcus is to say something nice about Aileen. But here goes.

I liked Aileen's article. If Vlade just shrugged and resigned us all to a dreary 30 game slide while the team quits on Karl - I really resent it as a paying customer. But, if he has "taken a side" with Karl here, in any way shape or form - then that is better. It may be wrong, but it isn't luke warm. If indeed Vlade/Peja and the minority owners have urged Karl to go down slugging - his way - and will back him if he benches or suspends Cuz for quitting or throwing fits... that is fine with me. It is better than swallowing hard and making the best of how things are now, because we don't want to write a $7M check (or however big the check is). I know Aileen is butthurt over past DMC slights and her article says some "coach-killer" stuff that does not stand up, but I still like the article.

Last thing... just to make sure I don't invest all this time without getting flamed a little... Vivek is easier to defend right now than DeMarcus. He has been a model owner this year, keeping his trap shut and letting the basketball people do the basketball. I'd send him a fruit basket and a thank you card. You can look at Vivek's learning curve a lot more favorably than DeMarcus' imo. Vivek did not lead a team-wide mutiny against the coach (this time). Rather he has learned from past mistakes and evolved. I wish DeMarcus would do the same - starting soon. Just shut the eff up, run back down the court and play d. Guarantee he will raise eyebrows the FIRST time he does this instead of sulking and glaring and loafing when there is a (perceived) bad call against him.

bring it

Zack Lowe said it well yesterday on his podcast: "Playing hard is a skill. Being a professional is a skill. Being a good and unselfish teammate is a skill." Boogie doesn't have these skills and I have been saying so in one way or another all season.

Instead we hear that the system and the coach is holding him back. Really? The same system and coach that allowed him to score 104 points in two games? What a crock.

Say what you want about Grant but he has been watching NBA basketball from the front row for 28 years. Yesterday he said DeMarcus effort on the court lately "has been an F". This article corroborates what Grant sees and what my eyes tell me.

Since @ Portland Boogie is mentally checked out on defense. Careless on offense. The best I can say is 60% to 70% effort over course of game.

Don't be intimidated by those on those board who want to tell you a relatively objective opinion regarding Boogie is misplaced.

If he was as great as some would have you believe we would be 31-21 instead of 21-31 with a coach who came with an eye lash of getting axed.

 

[Spike]

I think it's a lot harder than we thought in modern day NBA to win with a big guy as your star.

Possibly. But it still can be done. It's not as hard as we may believe it to be, though. We're just not doing it. The way we're playing goes against our team's strengths. We stop fighting ourselves, and we should see improvement.

 

[New Era]

Zack Lowe said it well yesterday on his podcast: "Playing hard is a skill. Being a professional is a skill. Being a good and unselfish teammate is a skill." Boogie doesn't have these skills and I have been saying so in one way or another all season.

Instead we hear that the system and the coach is holding him back. Really? The same system and coach that allowed him to score 104 points in two games? What a crock.

Say you want about Grant but he has been watching NBA basketball from the front row for 28 years. Yesterday he said DeMarcus effort on the court lately "has been an F". This article corroborates what Grant sees and what my eyes tell me.

Since @ Portland Boogie is mentally checked out on defense. Careless on offense. The best I can say is 60% to 70% effort over course of game.

Don't be intimidated by those on those board who want to tell you a relatively objective opinion regarding Boogie is misplaced.

If he was as great as some would have you believe we would be 31-21 instead of 21-31 with a coach who came with an eye lash of getting axed.

Very well said. When he scored 104 in two games I was just as excited as everybody else because, first and foremost, I am a die hard Kings fan and that was fun to watch. It was entertaining watching Bricklayer and company gloat as to how he was right and everybody else was wrong. I really hoped he WAS right! However, a great 5 game stretch cannot undo a horrific 5+ seasons of losing basketball. While I would never expect DMC to average 50 points a game, he has yet to show me that he can be consistent with his effort, attitude, playing defense, etc. His biggest problem is he doesn't know how to fight thru adversity. It's like that old saying....the true character of a person is how they act when things are tough, not how they act when things are good.

 

[ForlornKing]

Possibly. But it still can be done. It's not as hard as we may believe it to be, though. We're just not doing it. The way we're playing goes against our team's strengths. We stop fighting ourselves, and we should see improvement.

Totally agree. But it would explain why it isn't as easy for us to get to .500 with one of the best players in the league. Where if we had a star wing, we might be able to get by with out shoddy personnel decisions.

 

[funkykingston]

Terrible and unbalanced article IMO.

This sight is alarmingly familiar: While teammates sprint downcourt, awaiting the ball, point guard Rajon Rondo waits for the trailing, out-of-shape Cousins and too often initiates the offense late in the shot clock. This leaves too little time for screening and cutting, for moving and creating spacing, for the extra pass that leads to open shots.

Maybe that's because you shouldn't have your 6'11" 280 lb cornerstone player playing at the fastest pace in the NBA. Or having him try to attack from the three point line instead of the elbow or low post.

And maybe somebody should tell Aileen that outside of those pin downs to get Marco open on curls the Kings don't run a lot of screens. That's the nature of the dribble drive offense. It means Cousins is either catching outside the three point line or relegated to being the dumpoff five man in most sets. And I hesitate to call them sets because it's nearly all read-and-react with very little being called from the sideline.

When Vlade says they need to figure it out I'm guessing he doesn't mean giving a coach who was rumored to be on his way out complete control to run his offense and/or ship out players that don't fit - aka Boogie.

I'm guessing he means that Karl has to give a little in terms of pace and including more pick and rolls, more horns sets and more low post action. And I'm guessing it means he DOES tell the players to stop grousing and get to work with their coach. But it very surely doesn't mean he tells them to shut up and do whatever Karl says.

 

[Showtime]

Very well said. When he scored 104 in two games I was just as excited as everybody else because, first and foremost, I am a die hard Kings fan and that was fun to watch. It was entertaining watching Bricklayer and company gloat as to how he was right and everybody else was wrong. I really hoped he WAS right! However, a great 5 game stretch cannot undo a horrific 5+ seasons of losing basketball. While I would never expect DMC to average 50 points a game, he has yet to show me that he can be consistent with his effort, attitude, playing defense, etc. His biggest problem is he doesn't know how to fight thru adversity. It's like that old saying....the true character of a person is how they act when things are tough, not how they act when things are good.

I totally got fooled for that stretch. It wasn't that Cousins was going off, it was how and why. He wasn't complaining (as much), he was all smiles, he looked like a different guy. We all thought he did a 180 since the start of 2016 because he looked and acted differently than he did before. Now we are seeing the old Cousins who slacks off in transition, who complains, who puts in token effort on defense at times, etc. His aura can elevate or bring down a team, and I was foolish enough to think he had changed.

 

[whozit]

I totally got fooled for that stretch. It wasn't that Cousins was going off, it was how and why. He wasn't complaining (as much), he was all smiles, he looked like a different guy. We all thought he did a 180 since the start of 2016 because he looked and acted differently than he did before. Now we are seeing the old Cousins who slacks off in transition, who complains, who puts in token effort on defense at times, etc. His aura can elevate or bring down a team, and I was foolish enough to think he had changed.

Catch-22. Perhaps he thought the team had changed. Playing bigger, a little slower but no, that was only temporary.

I took what Divac did as a shot across everyone's bow. Work together or drown together.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I took what Divac did as a shot across everyone's bow. Work together or drown together.

I want to think this, too. But it's just as likely he/Vivek wanted to fire Karl but the minority owners somehow gummed things up.

 

[Showtime]

Catch-22. Perhaps he thought the team had changed. Playing bigger, a little slower but no, that was only temporary.

But that begs the question: do you want to build a franchise around such a fragile person? If you can't count on your cornerstone unless everything is sunshine and rainbows, then you won't ever get past the turmoil in the first place.

I took what Divac did as a shot across everyone's bow. Work together or drown together.

I hope so, but Vlade himself may be a lame-duck GM since he only has a 1 year contract, correct? They need to right the ship from that position downward. It starts there.

 

[pshn80]

Great articl by Voison. John Galt's commnts above summarize things well. It doesn't change how the team will play against the 76ers but hopefully we soon begin to see some positive changes in upcoming games. If so Karl, Cuz and the tam will come out winners. If not, we still have problems. Go Kings!!!!

 

[dude12]

Great articl by Voison. John Galt's commnts above summarize things well. It doesn't change how the team will play against the 76ers but hopefully we soon begin to see some positive changes in upcoming games. If so Karl, Cuz and the tam will come out winners. If not, we still have problems. Go Kings!!!!

Not trying to change anyone's mind....it's pretty obvious where the sides are split......and for me, until Sac gets a legitimate coach in place I refuse to cap on Cousins or any of the players. Karl isn't coaching them...he's not. They have asked him to step it up. I just believe that if this is the case.....we need to make that change first, stabilize there, then more than likely, it falls into place. It's absurd players have to ask the coaching staff to step it up....has this happened before?

And for me, Voison, has lost all credibility a long time ago.

 

[whozit]

But that begs the question: do you want to build a franchise around such a fragile person? If you can't count on your cornerstone unless everything is sunshine and rainbows, then you won't ever get past the turmoil in the first place.

Fragile? You didn't notice an improved attitude in Demarcus earlier in the season? On the court, he's no saint but I'm not sure I want him to be. More selective, yes. But I'm sorry if didn't notice that there was a noticeable change this season. He's tried, although lately?

Ever work in an unstable work environment? It gets tiring. Put a stable environment around him (and yes he has to help and do his part) and then it continues, ship him. Until then, first take care of upper management and extend Vlade.

I hope so, but Vlade himself may be a lame-duck GM since he only has a 1 year contract, correct? They need to right the ship from that position downward. It starts there.

Yup. Take care of this first.

 

[VF21]

I'm done putting any faith in anything the media says. I'll watch the games and draw my own conclusions. This team is a freaking trainwreck. There's more than enough blame to go around for ALL concerned, and that even includes Vlade - who let the rumors of Karl's imminent firing go too long unanswered.

What I see tonight is going to determine how much attention I pay to this team for the rest of the season. I love the Kings but I don't like them very much right now.

 

[swisshh]

This follows several patterns. Ailene's piece is pure agenda.

Many people involved in this do not understand the Kings fanbase. They didn't understand the situation when they fired Malone. They clearly do not understand the situation now. Attacking Bobby, shifting all blame to Cousins, etc.

You have Mike Malone coming to town soon. You're going to have your fanbase give the other team a big cheer. Hell, Mike might even get some standing applause.

So this is the most naive part of that article:

"would be another futile attempt to appease a few disgruntled players and confused, conflicted fans."

We are not confused, conflicted fans. We're angry that nobody in charge can get the basketball parts right. The organization seems to be the one confused and conflicted. What the fans feel is dumbfounded. It's not a complex equation. The only people who need to figure it out are the only ones who seem incapable of figuring it out.

And the players? They understand that as well. It's more than a few of them.

 

[ForlornKing]

This follows several patterns. Ailene's piece is pure agenda.

Many people involved in this do not understand the Kings fanbase. They didn't understand the situation when they fired Malone. They clearly do not understand the situation now. Attacking Bobby, shifting all blame to Cousins, etc.

You have Mike Malone coming to town soon. You're going to have your fanbase give the other team a big cheer. Hell, Mike might even get some standing applause.

So this is the most naive part of that article:

"would be another futile attempt to appease a few disgruntled players and confused, conflicted fans."

We are not confused, conflicted fans. We're angry that nobody in charge can get the basketball parts right. The organization seems to be the one confused and conflicted. What the fans feel is dumbfounded. It's not a complex equation. The only people who need to figure it out are the only ones who seem incapable of figuring it out.

And the players? They understand that as well. It's more than a few of them.

We need to band together and attack AV on Twitter ASAP.

 

[swisshh]

I don't wish to attack people on twitter. I don't think Voisin would even understand the message coming from twitter.

 

[swisshh]

Zack Lowe said it well yesterday on his podcast: "Playing hard is a skill. Being a professional is a skill. Being a good and unselfish teammate is a skill." Boogie doesn't have these skills and I have been saying so in one way or another all season.

Instead we hear that the system and the coach is holding him back. Really? The same system and coach that allowed him to score 104 points in two games? What a crock.

Say what you want about Grant but he has been watching NBA basketball from the front row for 28 years. Yesterday he said DeMarcus effort on the court lately "has been an F". This article corroborates what Grant sees and what my eyes tell me.

Since @ Portland Boogie is mentally checked out on defense. Careless on offense. The best I can say is 60% to 70% effort over course of game.

Don't be intimidated by those on those board who want to tell you a relatively objective opinion regarding Boogie is misplaced.

If he was as great as some would have you believe we would be 31-21 instead of 21-31 with a coach who came with an eye lash of getting axed.

Honest question:

Do you really think if Cousins clapped and smiled more that the team would have reversed its record? That less scowls would have won those games where they gave up 128 points? Do you think that if Cousins just ran back and forth all the time, that things would be fixed?

 

[VF21]

We need to band together and attack AV on Twitter ASAP.

That serves no purpose IMHO. I would hope members of KF would be able to refrain from attacking anyone on Twitter.

 

[Hoovtrain]

He's been horrific this year as well. Did you miss the last 5 days or something?

Where do you think this chaos is really coming from? There's another constant the last two years. It's vivek. The big boss. Can't blame PDA or Mullin anymore.

Well first off i am not a Vivek fan whatsoever and have blamed him for most everything during his tenure. That being said I have not seen anything egregious this year. I still think he is a crappy owner, but As Galt said, he has pretty much let Vlade run the show this year, so not sure what the huff is about with him regarding this year.

 

[ForlornKing]

That serves no purpose IMHO. I would hope members of KF would be able to refrain from attacking anyone on Twitter.

Attack may be the wrong word. But speaking on behalf of the fanbase to fuel her agenda? That's where I draw the line.

 

[VF21]

Attack may be the wrong word. But speaking on behalf of the fanbase to fuel her agenda? That's where I draw the line.

You're reading way too much into her commentary. Voisin promotes discourse; she's a columnist and not a reporter. Some of the fans she sees at games undoubtedly fit her description. I know some of the ones who call Grant's show certainly do. While I'd like to believe most Kings fans are as level-headed and logical as a lot of our members, I'm afraid that's just not the case. Look on FB. Some of the crap being spewed on there by "fans" is enough to make you ill.

 

[SCKingsfan]

Honest question:

Do you really think if Cousins clapped and smiled more that the team would have reversed its record? That less scowls would have won those games where they gave up 128 points? Do you think that if Cousins just ran back and forth all the time, that things would be fixed?

Exactly. Are we all not watching games where Cousins is busting his butt and 4,5,6 uncontested 3's go into the air, catching all net, and you see demoralization set in? These are things a coach has to prioritizing fixing, or it becomes "what the hell good does it do to patrol the paint if we're letting teams kill us from all over the perimeter?" I think his change in demeanor was a reaction to a grave problem not being addressed, not a quick attitude change.

 

[pshn80]

We need to band together and attack AV on Twitter ASAP.

I've already contacted her. I sent her an email saying what a great article she had this AM.

 

[Showtime]

Fragile? You didn't notice an improved attitude in Demarcus earlier in the season? On the court, he's no saint but I'm not sure I want him to be. More selective, yes. But I'm sorry if didn't notice that there was a noticeable change this season. He's tried, although lately?

Aside from two or three weeks in Jan, no he hasn't.

Ever work in an unstable work environment? It gets tiring. Put a stable environment around him (and yes he has to help and do his part) and then it continues, ship him. Until then, first take care of upper management and extend Vlade.

Yeah, I've been there and checked out of work before. But we are talking about a $13/hr job not getting paid millions to play basketball. Yes, there are stresses in any job, but to not give 100% in THIS job, with his talent, and expectations of him as a franchise player, because he isn't happy with the coach or teammates is not an excuse. I just do not understand the mentality of people who excuse this aspect of him. I don't care if his frustrations are merited if the way he deals with them results in a negative impact on the team's performance. He shares the blame with the coach and front office in this mess.

 

[Showtime]

Honest question:

Do you really think if Cousins clapped and smiled more that the team would have reversed its record? That less scowls would have won those games where they gave up 128 points? Do you think that if Cousins just ran back and forth all the time, that things would be fixed?

Ironically, that is exactly the Demarcus we saw in Jan. He came out with a different attitude and the team followed suit. Demarcus is the tide of this team. As he goes, so does the team.

 

[Chubbs]

One thing is for sure, you will get nothing approaching a fair assessment from anyone in the local media. They all have agendas. It's clear as day.

So the solution is just to let Karl do whatever he wants? I'm confused, has that not been happening?

This gets a LOT worse before it gets better.

 

[whozit]

Aside from two or three weeks in Jan, no he hasn't.

Compared to last year? He had (past tense intional).

Yeah, I've been there and checked out of work before. But we are talking about a $13/hr job not getting paid millions to play basketball. Yes, there are stresses in any job, but to not give 100% in THIS job, with his talent, and expectations of him as a franchise player, because he isn't happy with the coach or teammates is not an excuse. I just do not understand the mentality of people who excuse this aspect of him. I don't care if his frustrations are merited if the way he deals with them results in a negative impact on the team's performance. He shares the blame with the coach and front office in this mess.

$13/hr or millions? You admit you checked out but deny him that same part of humanity. In both cases, if it's wrong in one it's wrong in the other. And yes, he shares the blame but not all of it and I wouldn't even go close to saying most of it. But some, yes.